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Archive through February 24, 2005Arjun22 2-24-05  1:00 am
Archive through February 25, 2005Martin Schwenk22 2-25-05  11:07 pm
Archive through March 01, 2005Martin Schwenk22 3-01-05  8:43 am
Archive through March 02, 2005Martin Schwenk22 3-02-05  7:46 am
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Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the (parts of the) Food Circle relevant?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this legislation involve all types of fruit and vegetable? only fruits and vegetables? Does it have to do with serving size? the idea that people are supposed to eat five servings of fruits and vegetables each day?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Martin Schwenk (Trickymartin) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:46 am:

Did I get you right that this label would make you not want to eat the plant? that might indeed to one of its effects If so, would that be because of health concerns? yes - good question :) or is it a moral thing? no

By Tommy Petersson (Tommyp) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 08:28 am:

Is the (parts of the) Food Circle relevant? no

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 09:44 am:

Does this legislation involve all types of fruit and vegetable? yes only fruits and vegetables? no Does it have to do with serving size? no the idea that people are supposed to eat five servings of fruits and vegetables each day? no
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the label indicate how much exercise you need to do to work off the calories gained by eating the item? Similar?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 05:18 am:

Does the label indicate how much exercise you need to do to work off the calories gained by eating the item? no - fruit and vegetables are good for you :) Similar? very vaguely
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with the fact that most people prefer food that doesn't talk to you?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Birgitta Ericsson (Brid) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 07:32 am:

Anything to do with the fact that most people prefer food that doesn't talk to you? not really, though most people would probably ignore what the fruit and vegetables said in any case
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the concerns that might result from reading these labels are health-related but not nutrition-related? Are they to do with the risk of pesticide contamination? bacterial contamination? some other contamination? allergic reactions?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 09:19 am:

So the concerns that might result from reading these labels are health-related yes but not nutrition-related? I don't know what I have said to lead to this conclusion, but whatever it was must have been a blooper - the concerns would be, among other things, nutrition-related Are they to do with the risk of pesticide contamination? bacterial contamination? some other contamination? not these allergic reactions? but these are also possible
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, you said that fruit and vegetables are good for you...

Would the label on a fresh tomato be similar to (part of) the one that already exists on a package of processed tomatoes in this country? Or would this legislation require changes to the labels on packaged foods as well?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 10:32 am:

Well, you said that fruit and vegetables are good for you... You mean they aren't? :)

Would the label on a fresh tomato be similar to (part of) the one that already exists on a package of processed tomatoes in this country? I am not sure would this legislation require changes to the labels on packaged foods as well? I think that at the moment, such labels usually contains only lists of ingredients. The idea is simply that they should contain some additional information. In that case, the information on both fresh tomatoes and packaged tomatoes would be similar in nature...
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course they are. Which implies that you wouldn't not want to eat them for nutritional reasons.

Well, there are a lot of things on the label of a package of processed tomatoes other than a list of ingredients. There is the total weight or volume of the package, some information about the manufacturer, nutritional information per 100g or 100mL, and possibly nutritional information per serving. Oh, and the "best before end" date. Is it anything to do with any of these?

Are health-related concerns the only reason why the label might keep someone from eating the food? Or would the label possibly indicate that the food would not taste good?

Would the label contain any false information? misleading information? Would it cause people to think that fruits and vegetables are actually bad for them? that they are high in calories? fat? saturated fat? sodium? carbohydrates? some other nutrient that some people try to avoid? Would it cause people to think that fruits and vegetables are low in vitamins? minerals? protein? some other nutrient that people try to get lots of?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:15 am:

Of course they are. Which implies that you wouldn't not want to eat them for nutritional reasons Oh, I see. I was merely trying to say that they weren't fattening - though of course, some of them are, and this might constitute a reason for not eating them even though they are also nutritious. Apologies for any confusion that may have been caused :(

Well, there are a lot of things on the label of a package of processed tomatoes other than a list of ingredients. There is the total weight or volume of the package, some information about the manufacturer, nutritional information per 100g or 100mL, and possibly nutritional information per serving. Oh, and the "best before end" date. Is it anything to do with any of these? not directly, but information about the ingredients would be significant, as perhaps would the "best before" date

Are health-related concerns the only reason why the label might keep someone from eating the food? yes, indeed Or would the label possibly indicate that the food would not taste good? no

Would the label contain any false information? no misleading information? no Would it cause people to think that fruits and vegetables are actually bad for them? it might that they are high in calories? fat? saturated fat? sodium? carbohydrates? some other nutrient that some people try to avoid? again, this is possible - sodium, for example, might particulalrly be mentioned Would it cause people to think that fruits and vegetables are low in vitamins? minerals? protein? some other nutrient that people try to get lots of? no.

There is a generic name for the kind of "labels" that are relevant to this puzzle, and all you really need to do is identify it :)
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't think of any generic names for kinds of labels, or even "labels", but I think it would be funny if all the fruits and vegetables in the supermarket had to be labeled as "suitable for vegetarians". It's not that, is it?

Anything to do with preservatives? or irradiation?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:35 am:

I can't think of any generic names for kinds of labels, or even "labels", but I think it would be funny if all the fruits and vegetables in the supermarket had to be labeled as "suitable for vegetarians". It's not that, is it? it is not, but good thinking :) These labels do appear on some foodstuffs at the moment, but are perhaps primarily associated with another vegetable product...

Anything to do with preservatives? possibly or irradiation? equally possibly
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have to be marked "perishable"?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 11:48 am:

Would they have to be marked "perishable"? no
Chuck Raby (Wildcard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the label something that people can actually read without any technological assistance?
Are we talking about the UPC symbol (barcode?)?
The serving size?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Chuck Raby (Wildcard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 12:32 pm:

Is the label something that people can actually read without any technological assistance? yes
Are we talking about the UPC symbol (barcode?)? no
The serving size? no
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be some sort of warning label?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Johanna (Buzzard) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 01:37 pm:

Would it be some sort of warning label? indeed it would :)
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this "other vegetable product" be cigarettes?
Tommy Petersson (Tommyp)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...and would it be some sort of "Surgeon General Recommends" label?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Tommy Petersson (Tommyp) on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:27 pm:

Would this "other vegetable product" be cigarettes? yes, and I think that will do :)


***** SPOILER *****

An article in a leading English newspaper recently bore the headline:

All food to carry Government health warnings

The subject of the article was proposed new legislation that would make it compulsory for everything we in Britain eat to carry information about possible consequences for our health. Of course, this is chiefly aimed at products that are bad for you - but the idea is that even things that aren't need to convey the information that, for example, they ought to be eaten in moderation and as part of a balanced diet.

If this legislation were enacted as described, it would presumably mean that every carrot you bought at a greengrocer would have to have a sticky label on in saying "too many carrots can make your hair curl", while every almond would need to tell you "this product contains nuts". This would, I thought, be somewhat prohibitive in terms of cost and time, so the whole idea struck me as nonsense...

Then, I thought that if we used the techniques of genetic modification, we could simply grow bananas that said "the peel can cause accidents if not disposed of correctly", or pumpkins that said "this stuff tastes horrible and you would be better off eating blotting paper". We could, in short, make fruits and vegetables that carried their own built-in health warnings. After all, we have the technology.

Thanks for playing - well done everyone, except possibly the Government. Eat carefully, and have a nice day.

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