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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - Jan 2005 » [Beroean] Turn in your grave Colonel May « Previous Next »

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Archive through January 18, 2005Tim A. Dowd22 1-18-05  7:07 pm
Archive through January 19, 2005Alizon22 1-19-05  7:16 pm
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Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, does the deceitful nature of the subject of your puzzle have something to do with relating the ship Bounty with all the Bounties of Basingstoke? Yes

For example, using the picture of the ship in an advertisement for the cricket grounds? very much OTRT

Can you find the linkage between:

Colonel John May
The Cricket Club
The Inn (Pub)
The Mutiny on The Bounty
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would I be correct in inferring that the picture seems to indicate that the reason for the name(s) is the ship and events associated with it, when in reality there is a different origin for the name? One linked to the Colonel?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would I be correct in inferring that the picture seems to indicate that the reason for the name(s) is the ship and events associated with it, when in reality there is a different origin for the name? Yes

One linked to the Colonel? Yes

would you like to continue and discover the details?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure, if you don't mind.

Is the picture affixed to a hanging sign or some such?

Was it the artist's idea to use a picture of HMS Bounty? Or was it the commisioner of the artwork? Is the reason for the choice known? If so, was it because the story of the mutiny is more romantic? Because they have a thing for Mel Gibson?

Did the Colonel come up with the original name? Or was it named for something of his?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course we would!
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sure, if you don't mind. Be my guest :)

Is the picture affixed to a hanging sign or some such? Yes

Was it the artist's idea to use a picture of HMS Bounty? No
Or was it the commisioner of the artwork? Yes, I would assume as much
Is the reason for the choice known? Not to me
If so, was it because the story of the mutiny is more romantic? Probably because it is more famous
Because they have a thing for Mel Gibson? No, the hanging of the picture predates Mel Gibson

Did the Colonel come up with the original name? No
Or was it named for something of his? Yes

Of course we would!Goodo :)
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it the name of his horse? His wife? Child? House? Estate? Farm? Uh...bicycle? Pet gila monster (pass the spit)? Some organization or other?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As to the linkage - I did some googling and it seems that Colonel May liked to play cricket and he owned a brewery.

Does the Bounty of your puzzle happen to be the sign of the pub (I think the relation of the pub to the brewery is obvious, isn't it)?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And... since I understand the cricket field was renamed as "May's Bounty" - was the name meant as a tribute to the successful entrepreneur May, who probably did a lot for the town of Basingstoke?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tim
Was it the name of his horse? no
His wife? no
Child? no
House? no
Estate? no
Farm? no
Uh...bicycle? no
Pet gila monster (pass the spit)? yeah No but thanks for the memory! :)
Some organization or other? no

Alizon
As to the linkage - I did some googling and it seems that Colonel May liked to play cricket and he owned a brewery. That is correct on both counts but only adds more grist to the mill


Does the Bounty of your puzzle happen to be the sign of the pub Yes

(I think the relation of the pub to the brewery is obvious, isn't it)? No, oddly enough. Colonel May came from a rich merchant family in Basingstoke who owned the brewery. I am not sure when the Pub was built or if it had any direct relationship with the brewery at the time. There were many pubs in Basingstoke. The Brewery was located in the south of the town in a street that came to be called "May Place". The pub was about half a mile away to the north of the town. There were many other pubs much nearer to the brewery at the time.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And... since I understand the cricket field was renamed as "May's Bounty" - was the name meant as a tribute to the successful entrepreneur May, who probably did a lot for the town of Basingstoke? Well done!

The entire cricket pavillion in Basingstoke was constructed thanks to the generous donation of funds from Colonel John May. Thereafter the Cricket Ground itself came to be called "MAY'S BOUNTY"
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything else for us to find?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything else for us to find? I'm not sure, can you post the full solution?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, I can see there is
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there an inscription on the sign?

Is a guidebook of Basingstoke relevant? Or an ad relating to the pub?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the "thousand words" from your puzzle statement relate to the saying of "a picture is worth a thousand words", or was there any real inscription?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there an inscription on the sign?
The pub sign is of course the picture of the ship, The Bounty and the words "THE BOUNTY" are also written on it.

Is a guidebook of Basingstoke relevant? no
Or an ad relating to the pub? no

Where do you think the pub is and why is it called The Bounty?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wicca involved?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pub on a hill?

Bounty as abundance?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wicca involved? No (I'm not sure what your line of thought is there)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forget about the Wicca, it just seems that they are meeting in the pub.
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pub named after the cricket ground, rather than the ship? Is it on the road to the cricket ground? which is, therefore, named Bounty Lane?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Jens
Is the pub named after the cricket ground, rather than the ship? Yes indeed it is!
Is it on the road to the cricket ground? Yes
which is, therefore, named Bounty Lane? Yes

Jens thanks for supplying the link. I tried to find another photo of the pub but that is the best one. Can you see 2 signs? It is not at all clear in the photo but can you guess what the image is on the sign at the top right.

Excellent - all that remains is for the bits to be all tied together

The Bounty Inn (pub)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, did they name the pub falsely after the ship Bounty, to attract more customers? I do not know how long the pub exists, but there was a film about Bounty in the 80's or so - perhaps they wanted to make use of the wave of popularity of that film?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the cricket field was named May's Bounty because the May family donated the bulk of the fundage used to construct it (or purchase the land or whatever); over the years it came to be called Bounty Field or whatever in common usage, and those things proximate to the field (roads, pubs etc.) also earned that sobriquet. Some time in the 1950s, however, a new sign was made for the pub depicting the ship HMS Bounty of Mutiny fame, which implies that the origin of the name "Bounty" came from that ship/story rather than as a description of the May family's contribution to the cricket pitch, is that about right?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"is that about right" It most certainly is!

Well done to Tim, Alizon and Jens


***************** SPOILER *****************

Colonel John May (born 1837) came from a locally renowned family that made considerable wealth from Brewing beer in Basingstoke, England.

He used much of his own wealth to benefit the residents of Basingstoke. Among other things he purchased land for the town's cricket ground and had a pavillion constructed upon it.

In honour of his gift, the Cricket Ground was named "May's Bounty", after its benefactor and subsequently the road along side became known as "Bounty Road". A Pub was also erected at the corner of the ground and was named "The Bounty" or "Bounty Inn".

In short time the "May" connection has become distant, whilst the name "Bounty" has become most prominent. Around the 1950's the Bounty Inn had a sign hung up with its name and a picture of the famous ship "The Bounty" which completely obscures any link with John May.

"Turn in your grave Colonel May"


This link shows a delightful artists impression of the Cricket Ground. The pavillion is the building to the top right. The Bounty Inn (Pub)immediately outside the ground and is out of the picture being about another 50 yards to the far left

Mays Bounty Cricket Ground


The link below shows the Pub in Bounty Road leading away to the right. The ship sign is barely visible in the top right of the pic and the faint white slodge is its sails. The May's Bounty Cricket Ground is directly behind the pub.
The Bounty Inn

It occurs to me that there is something sad when the present generation hvae lost the link between the pub and the memory of one of the towns most famous men who has only been dead 85 years. It reminds me of what the wise man wrote, "the rememberance of them has been forgotten"

Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 6 (For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.  Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.)

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