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Archive through February 03, 2005David Burn22 2-03-05  9:53 am
Archive through February 03, 2005Alizon22 2-03-05  6:54 pm
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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:11 pm:

Why didn't you tell me this was a cricket puzzle?!! You never asked me :)

I am full of regret for having missed out this far! Well, better late than never

Did the drinks take place on the field as often scheduled during the innings? yes

It involved the fielding team and the 12th man? yes

Would an extra drink have incurred more time? no relevant? no

Was this a test match / county match/ cup match / limited over / ODI ? nothing so grand. It was a game between the Southampton Travellers and Hamble Aerostructures, but it was a proper game with a proper drinks interval

Would one more drink have had a crucial effect on the outcome of the result? it might have done, but this is really not the point of the puzzle

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:16 pm:

Does the title hint at Glamorgan? no. The title is simply a quotation from a Bob Dylan song:

One more cup of coffee for the road,
One more cup of coffee ’fore I go
To the valley below.


which to me suggested the notion of an extra drink, for I am a silly woubit.


Did the weather or light conditions play a crucial part? no
Did soemthing unexpected happen at any stage yes such as a streaker, no or any other event that impacted on the match in any way? yes, though "event" is possibly not the right term; "state of affairs" might be better.

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:41 pm:

Did the fielding team ultimately lose the match? this is not recorded, and does not matter Was the match drawn? ditto

By Alizon (Alizon) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:54 pm:

Doping tests relevant? no, but this is not actually a million miles from the right forest...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anything relevant occur after the match?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 08:57 pm:

Did anything relevant occur after the match? no
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant impact that the extra drink would have had
- increased the duration of the break?
- made people want to relieve themselves? (since we seem to be having a lot of puzzles on that theme...)
- had a physical effect on the players?
- a completely different impact?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:09 pm:


The relevant impact that the extra drink would have had
- increased the duration of the break?
- made people want to relieve themselves? (since we seem to be having a lot of puzzles on that theme...)
- had a physical effect on the players?
- a completely different impact? this one - sorry :(
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, that's all right - completely expected :)
So this unexpected incident - nature involved? the crowd? the players? the umpires? some animal? the police?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:19 pm:

So this unexpected incident - nature involved? the crowd? the players? chiefly these the umpires? and also these some animal? the police? but none of the others
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a tiff between players of the two teams? Some disagreement? Over the fall of a wicket?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are body fluids relevant?

What was it about hypothetically having another drink that was relevant:

The actions involved?
Additional Fluid inside the body?
Something else?

Did the "state of affairs" involve the action of one player? more than one player? Playing conditions? the opposition? the wicket? the crowd? umpire(s)? something else?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did it involve the ball?
Other equipment?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anyone get hurt? Might the incident be described funny? serious?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:26 pm:

Was there a tiff between players of the two teams? no Some disagreement? not really Over the fall of a wicket? nothing like this

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:28 pm:

are body fluids relevant? no

What was it about hypothetically having another drink that was relevant:

The actions involved?
Additional Fluid inside the body?
Something else? this one

Did the "state of affairs" involve the action of one player? more than one player? this one Playing conditions? the opposition? the wicket? the crowd? umpire(s)? something else?

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:29 pm:

did it involve the ball? no
Other equipment? no

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:29 pm:

Did anyone get hurt? no Might the incident be described funny? yes serious? no

Recall that there was no specific "incident" involved; just a "state of things".
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how many drinks each of the players had? Relevant there were 12 players on the field? Any numbers involved at all?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:35 pm:

Is it relevant how many drinks each of the players had? yes Relevant there were 12 players on the field? yes Any numbers involved at all? indeed :)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dit the state of affairs occur:
during dynamic play e.g. bowling of a ball, execution of a shot, fielding the ball?
Or did it occur off the ball?

Did it occur in an instant or did it develop?

Did it occur out without intent or was in brought on by deliberate actions?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the 12th man bring 2 12-packs of Coke? For the 12 fielders + 2 batsmen + 2 umpires? Were there 16 people on the field during the break?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:37 pm:

Dit the state of affairs occur:
during dynamic play e.g. bowling of a ball, execution of a shot, fielding the ball?
Or did it occur off the ball? this one

Did it occur in an instant or did it develop? it began at a certian point in time, and was "ongoing" from that point

Did it occur out without intent yes or was in brought on by deliberate actions? no

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:39 pm:

Did the 12th man bring 2 12-packs of Coke? no For the 12 fielders + 2 batsmen + 2 umpires? no Were there 16 people on the field during the break? no
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how many people were on the field when the drinks were brought in? Did the 12th man from the fielding team bring in drinks only for the fielding team? When you say 'they' should have had another drink, do you mean the 12?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 09:56 pm:

Relevant how many people were on the field when the drinks were brought in? yes Did the 12th man from the fielding team bring in drinks only for the fielding team? no When you say 'they' should have had another drink, do you mean the 12? no
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you mean that the players should have drunk another drink?

Or do you mean that there should have been one more drink available?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many people (players/umpires/other) were on the field - during drinks? At other relevant time?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:01 pm:

Do you mean that the players should have drunk another drink? no

Or do you mean that there should have been one more drink available? yes - well done :)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:15 pm:

How many people (players/umpires/other) were on the field - during drinks? seventeen At other relevant time? sixteen

Fine questions. Almost done.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There were 12 fielders?!
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They (whoever ordered the drinks) failed to take into account the 12th man?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the 12th man 13th man brought the drinks on they realised there were not enough drinks to go round and therefore they suddenly realised that they had been illegally fielding with 12 men?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:30 pm:

There were 12 fielders?! indeed there were :)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:31 pm:

They (whoever ordered the drinks) failed to take into account the 12th man? yes, so to speak

By Simon Downham (Beroean) on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:33 pm:

When the 12th man 13th man brought the drinks on they realised there were not enough drinks to go round and therefore they suddenly realised that they had been illegally fielding with 12 men? exactly and precisely so :)

***** SPOILER *****

At the drinks interval in a cricket match between Southampton Travellers and Hamble Aerostructures, the drinks were brought onto the pitch as usual by one of the fielding side who was not engaged on active duty.

Sixteen drinks - one for each of eleven fielders, one for each of two batsman, one for each of two umpires, and one for the drinks-bearer - were carefully counted onto a tray. They arrived on the field and were eagerly seized by the combatants, for it was a hot July day.

But one of the fielders was loud in his complaint when there was no drink available for him. The explanation was soon forthcoming: the fielding side had (illegally) twelve men on the field of play.

Of coures, had the thirsty fielder been able to accept his misfortune stoically, the mistake would not have been discovered, and the fielding side could have continued to enjoy the advantage of an extra man. As it was, the superfluous fielder had to go. From the fielding side's point of view then, when it came to the drinks, they should have had another.

Congratulations to the cricketing cognoscenti for solving the puzzle. But especial praise for Brid, who did an awful lot of very good work despite the fact that cricket is not played in her native Sweden :)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good one David!
(and well done Arjun too!)
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, and well done Simon! Yup, as far as I can remember fielding 12 players *is* illegal; with mutual consent however, any number of players can bat...
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I see the knowledgeable people finished this off while I went home to have dinner and sleep. Good job. My "knowledge" of cricket comes chiefly from having read the cricket match chapter in "Murder Must Advertise" (Dorothy Sayers) a number of times, without really becoming any more certain about what happens.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brid, you might find this helpful:

Explanation of how to play Cricket

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in.

Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out.

Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in.

There are two men called umpires who stay allout all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.

When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!"
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crystal clear. Very nice! :)
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brid,

that was a great book, wasn't it?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 6:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Certainly! I probably wouldn't have re-read it otherwise...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you saying, that the inclusion of cricket made the story such a compelling one?
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

'fraid not...

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