[Buzzard] Rings and other pretty stuf... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - March 2005 » [Buzzard] Rings and other pretty stuff « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through February 15, 2005Johanna22 2-15-05  1:30 pm
Archive through March 03, 2005Johanna22 3-03-05  10:41 am
Archive through March 10, 2005Johanna22 3-10-05  2:30 pm
Archive through March 11, 2005Johanna22 3-11-05  11:59 am
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it simply wrong of him to be making up a song at the time?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it simply wrong of him to be making up a song at the time? no, the making up of the song was a consequence of B's wrong, not the wrong itself
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he started to play, was it with the intention of playing some other song? or of making up the one he made up?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he started to play, was it with the intention of playing some other song? or of making up the one he made up? he intended to make it up as he went along, which implies that when he started to play, it was not clear to him how it would go
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Then I am lost - you seem to have said that this "wrong" occurred during the making up of the song, and also that the making up of the song was a "consequence" of the wrong. Do you believe that if X is a "consequence" of Y, it is necessary that Y occurs before X?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Then I am lost - you seem to have said that this "wrong" occurred during the making up of the song, and also that the making up of the song was a "consequence" of the wrong. Do you believe that if X is a "consequence" of Y, it is necessary that Y occurs before X? no - if X and Y are both things that last for a nonzero amount of time, it is possible that X begins before Y ends.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed :) But here we seem to have a "wrong" X that occurred "during" a song Y. Is the idea that it began before the song and continued for some part? or all? of the song?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed But here we seem to have a "wrong" X that occurred "during" a song Y. Is the idea that it began before the song and continued for some part? or all? of the song? yes - all of the song
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this "wrong" simply to assume no one could hear him? or that the audience wasn't there?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this "wrong" simply to assume no one could hear him? if by "no one" you mean "no one in the audience", then yes or that the audience wasn't there? no, he knew they were there
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this all we need to know about B's wrong - that he assumed no one could hear him? And about A's wrong - that the audience could in fact hear him?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this all we need to know about B's wrong - that he assumed no one could hear him? And about A's wrong - that the audience could in fact hear him? well, you might want to work out why B assumed that no one could hear him, when he was in fact on stage, in front of an audience, and playing music
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he assume the sound system was swtiched off? Or was he merely facing the wrong way?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he assume the sound system was swtiched off? no, not all of it Or was he merely facing the wrong way? no
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was B in a sound booth that was on the stage? Could he see the audience? Could the audience see him?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was B in a sound booth that was on the stage? no Could he see the audience? yes Could the audience see him? yes
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he wearing headphones?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the audience being particularly noisy? Was the stage physically located far away from the closest members of the audience?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By David Burn (Woubit) on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:25 pm:


Was he wearing headphones? no

By Haenlomal (Haenlomal) on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 03:26 pm:


Was the audience being particularly noisy? no Was the stage physically located far away from the closest members of the audience? not especially, but it probably wasn't especially close, either
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he assume that the sound system on the stage was working? but the sound system for the public wasn't? Does this question even make sense?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he assume that the sound system on the stage was working? but the sound system for the public wasn't? Does this question even make sense? The question does indeed make sense. He assumed that all parts of the sound system were working properly, as indeed they were, but...
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am lost again :( Does this mean that he assumed only the sound system on the stage was switched on? while that for the public was switched off?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am lost again Does this mean that he assumed only the sound system on the stage was switched on? while that for the public was switched off? He knew that the sound on the stage was switched on, because he could hear himself. He assumed that the speakers directed to the public were switched off. There were also speakers directed to the sound engineer, and he assumed that they were switched on.
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I understand :) And were the speakers directed to the sound engineer switched on?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And were the speakers directed to the sound engineer switched on? they were
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any other aspects of the sound system we need to know about?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any other aspects of the sound system we need to know about? no, and perhaps I had better pull this bit together:

B, whose name is Brooks Williams, was playing a concert at a festival in Belfast. He got up on the stage, and was told by the sound engineer to do a "sound check", so that the sound engineer could work out how to balance the sound picked up by the various microphones for the audience's listening pleasure. So Mr Williams began what he later described as a "nervous little noodle", making up a tune on his guitar as he went along. But the sound engineer had mistakenly switched on the main speakers, so that the audience heard all of it, and Mr Williams had mistakenly not realised this. So at the end of the noodle, when he said, "How was that?", expecting a response only from the sound man, he was met instead with the enthusiastic applause of the audience. And then...
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He thanked the crowd? told them what had happened? pretended he meant this to occur?

Did they give him a standing ovation? or just applause? did they throw objects in their joy?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He thanked the crowd? probably, but this is not important told them what had happened? no pretended he meant this to occur? I don't think he made much of it - he just got on with the rest of the concert

Did they give him a standing ovation? irrelevant (but it would be highly unusual for them to do so after the first song) or just applause? probably did they throw objects in their joy? this is not recorded
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2005 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And then he decided to make a song out of this noodle?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for neglecting this :(

And then he decided to make a song out of this noodle? He did, eventually, but why?
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he do it because he knew he had a potential hit song? in order to make it look like the he had always intended to use that noodle as a song?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he do it because he knew he had a potential hit song? not necessarily a "hit" song, but one that people would like at least as much as they like his other songs in order to make it look like the he had always intended to use that noodle as a song? no
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is almost done, and I'd like to post another puzzle, so I'll help it along. Add the following to the above recap:

The "right" is that the world can now enjoy the tune, based on the noodle, called "Belfast Blues", which Mr Williams has recorded and still plays at concerts at least sometimes. But audiences tend to clap following just about anything that they have reason to believe is a song. How did he know that they really liked it?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because it was described on a website as one of America's great musical treasures - lush, profoundly melodic, and a true marriage of craft and emotion. I am not making this up.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because it was described on a website as one of America's great musical treasures - lush, profoundly melodic, and a true marriage of craft and emotion. I am not making this up. um...no - I suspect that that website was not written until after the events of the puzzle concluded
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have lost the plot, as usual. C's "wrong" occurred at a subsequent performance, is that right? Did he ask Mr Williams to play the noodle again?
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have lost the plot, as usual. C's "wrong" occurred at a subsequent performance, is that right? yes Did he ask Mr Williams to play the noodle again? that will do :)

************ SPOILER *************

Brooks Williams, a contemporary folk singer/guitarist/songwriter, was playing a concert at a festival in Belfast. He got up on the stage, and was told by the sound engineer to do a "sound check", so that the sound engineer could work out how to balance the sound picked up by the various microphones for the audience's listening pleasure. So Mr Williams began what he later described as a "nervous little noodle", making up a tune on his guitar as he went along. But the sound engineer had mistakenly switched on the main speakers, so that the audience heard all of it, and Mr Williams had mistakenly not realised this. So at the end of the noodle, when he said, "How was that?", expecting a response only from the sound man, he was met instead with the enthusiastic applause of the audience. But really, what was the audience supposed to do? They thought the song was part of the performance, so when it was over, they applauded.

It all would have come to nothing, except that at another performance at the festival later that day, a member of the audience requested that Mr Williams play the number he started with that afternoon. Figuring he must have stumbled upon something really good, he played it as well as he could remember, and then recorded it, and that was that.

Apologies to all who participated.

With all due respect,
Buzzard
Fred Z (Dref)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not surprised. The spontaneity of improvisation can create some wondrous things.

Good puzzle.
Johanna (Buzzard)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you, Fred. :)
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's the nervous little noodle like then?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's like a cow jumping up and down on a galvanised iron roof. But there are people who quite like that sort of thing :)

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: