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Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She was poisoned and she died...

For all intents and purposes, this is my first puzzle for the forum. Enjoy!
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat the poison? Drink it? Did it come through her skin?
Oneida (Theoneida)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her pocket full of it?
Anything to do with roses?
And let's get this out of the way: Was it in ice?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat the poison?No Drink it?No Did it come through her skin?No

Was her pocket full of it?no
Anything to do with roses?no
And let's get this out of the way: Was it in ice?No it was not :)
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, Did she eat the poison should read Yope
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat some poisoned food?

Is this a murder? An accident?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 3:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat some poisoned food?She did
Is this a murder? An accident?neither, though closer towards accident
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To get this out of the way: she = she?
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she know that the food was poisoned? Did she eat it intentionally?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To get this out of the way: she = she? NO (kinda gald we got that out of the way this early...)
Did she know that the food was poisoned? Did she eat it intentionally? Neither knew that the food had been poisoned
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 5:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There aren't any bees in this, are there?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There aren't any bees in this, are there? no
Tony (E20)
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does She1 being poisoned lead directly to She2 dying? Indirectly? Is it a coincidence?

Does She1 know She2? Are they related? Friends? Colleagues?

What is the time gap between the two events:
simultaneous?
seconds?
minutes?
hours?
days?
weeks?
years?
centuries?
millennia?
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To establish some names, OK?

She (Chick) was poisoned and she (Fortuna) died...

Are Chick and Fortuna humans?

Chick:
0-15 years?
16-30?
31-60?
More?

Same question for Fortuna.

Was Chick dead when Fortuna died? Did Fortuna eat Chick?

Who did eat poisoned food - Chick or Fortuna?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tony
Does She1 being poisoned lead directly to She2 dying? Indirectly?This one Is it a coincidence?

Does She1 know She2?yes Are they related? Friends? Colleagues?no to rest

What is the time gap between the two events:
simultaneous?
seconds?
minutes?
hours?
days?
weeks?
\i(months
}
years?
centuries?
millennia?
the actual time gap between events is irrelevant however the time frame is important to how She2 died


\red(Bojan_Basic}
To establish some names, OK? Certainly

She (Chick) was poisoned and she (Fortuna) died...

Are Chick and Fortuna humans? Yes...
HINT: For the sake of the puzzle Yope could also apply...

Chick:
0-15 years?this one
16-30?
31-60?
More?

Same question for Fortuna.16-30

Was Chick dead when Fortuna died? Did Fortuna eat Chick?NO

Who did eat poisoned food - Chick or Fortuna?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tony
Does She1 being poisoned lead directly to She2 dying? Indirectly?This one Is it a coincidence?

Does She1 know She2?yes Are they related? Friends? Colleagues?no to rest

What is the time gap between the two events:
simultaneous?
seconds?
minutes?
hours?
days?
weeks?
months

years?
centuries?
millennia?
the actual time gap between events is irrelevant however the time frame is important to how She2 died


Bojan_Basic
To establish some names, OK? Certainly

She (Chick) was poisoned and she (Fortuna) died...

Are Chick and Fortuna humans? Yes...
HINT: For the sake of the puzzle Yope could also apply...

Chick:
0-15 years?this one
16-30?
31-60?
More?

Same question for Fortuna.16-30

Was Chick dead when Fortuna died?NO Did Fortuna eat Chick?no

Who did eat poisoned food - Chick or Fortuna?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ooh, sorry about that, hit the wrong button...
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has Chick ever died?


Quote:

Are Chick and Fortuna humans? Yes...
HINT:
For the sake of the puzzle Yope could also apply...



Does that mean that Chick needn't be a human? Fortuna?

Was there some intervention which prevented Chick's death? Or she wasn't in danger at all?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has Chick ever died?during the puzzle? No...

Does that mean that Chick needn't be a human? Fortuna?this could get confusing - I've realised that this hint could give some serious FAs. For now, assume both are human, period. It may make more sense later.

Was there some intervention which prevented Chick's death?FA Or she wasn't in danger at all?Yes for svv of danger
(Stuccosalt)
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is chick an infant? child? teen? has she been born yet?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is chick an infant? child?child, though this is only partially relevent teen? has she been born yet?
Bojan Basic (Bojan_Basic)
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the food meat? Fish? Vegetable? Fruit? Relevant?

Did someone poison the food? Intentionally?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 5:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the food meat? Fish? Vegetable? Fruit?none of these Relevant?yessish

Did someone poison the food?noish Intentionally?no
Dima (Dima)
Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2004 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dairy?
Grain?
Liquid?
Solid?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Friday, December 03, 2004 - 3:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dairy? no
Grain? yes
Liquid? no
Solid? yes
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify a few things:
Did Chick die later (after Fortuna)?
Did she get sick at all?

The poison- Was it:
Added to the food by someone?
A product of food spoilage?
Not really a poison, but something that Chick or Fortuna were allergic to or intolerant of?
In something based on rye? (ie a pocket full of..)

Was Fortuna a health care professional? a child minder? Occupation relevant?
Did she die of poisoning?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify a few things:
Did Chick die later (after Fortuna)? no
Did she get sick at all? yes, for svv of sick

The poison- Was it:
Added to the food by someone? no
A product of food spoilage? no
Not really a poison, but something that Chick or Fortuna were allergic to or intolerant of? no
In something based on rye? (ie a pocket full of..) YES - good pickup!

Was Fortuna a health care professional? a child minder? Occupation relevant? nta
Did she die of poisoning? no
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chick suffer any adverse consequence from the poison? If so, long term or permanent?
Is the exact identity of the poison itself relevant?
Is it something usually thought of as a poison?
Was the poison in bread?

Did Fortuna die:
A long time after the poisoning event?
Of natural causes?
Of suicide?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chick suffer any adverse consequence from the poison? If so, long term or permanent? yes, for svv of 'long'
Is the exact identity of the poison itself relevant? yes
Is it something usually thought of as a poison? not sure how to answer that, what is usually thought of as poison?
Was the poison in bread? yes

Did Fortuna die:
A long time after the poisoning event? yes, for svv of 'long'
Of natural causes? no
Of suicide? no
Damien Sullivan (Docd)
Posted on Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the poison a toxic chemical which is utilised for these toxic properties? (eg cyanide, arsenic)
Or was the poison a chemical which is toxic at a certain dose but not usually utilised as a "poison" (eg most pharmaceuticals, cleaning chemicals,etc)

Was the poison in the bread itself?
Or in some spread or filling?
Was it in sliced bread? Or a bun? Crispbread? (relevant?)

Did Fortuna die of any of these:
Murder? Execution?
Shot? Stabbed?
Physical trauma of some other kind?
Drowned? Strangled or otherwise asphyxiated?
Hunger? Thirst?
Burned? Electrocuted?

Are there any other relevant humans in this puzzle?
Any animals?

Was Fortuna responsible (however innocently) for the poison in the bread?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 7:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the poison a toxic chemical which is utilised for these toxic properties? (eg cyanide, arsenic) noish
Or was the poison a chemical which is toxic at a certain dose but not usually utilised as a "poison" (eg most pharmaceuticals, cleaning chemicals,etc) yes, but extrapolate...

Was the poison in the bread itself? yes
Or in some spread or filling?
Was it in sliced bread? Or a bun? Crispbread? (relevant?) irrelevent

Did Fortuna die of any of these:
Murder?
Execution?
Shot?
Stabbed?
Physical trauma of some other kind?
Drowned?
Strangled or otherwise asphyxiated?
Hunger?
Thirst?
Burned?
Electrocuted?

Are there any other relevant humans in this puzzle? yes - but not individually
Any animals? no

Was Fortuna responsible (however innocently) for the poison in the bread? NO
Vitek (Soggle)
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello, Zenith!

Is the era relevant? Did the poisoning happen before 1900? before 1600? BC?

Did anybody believe that Fortuna was responsible for Chick's 'sickness'? Did all the relevant people know that Chick's sickness was due to poison? Did anybody know it?

Was the poison ergot?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Fortuna hanged?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello, Zenith! hello Vitek!

Is the era relevant? yes Did the poisoning happen before 1900? yes before 1600? no BC?

Did anybody believe that Fortuna was responsible for Chick's 'sickness'? yes Did all the relevant people know that Chick's sickness was due to poison? no Did anybody know it? no

Was the poison ergot? Yes it most certainly was

By Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)

Was Fortuna hanged? yes

Just one more question...
Vitek (Soggle)
Posted on Monday, January 03, 2005 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Fortuna accused of attempted murder? Was she accused of witchcraft?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I apologise for this delay in getting the final answer, didn't have an internet connection for about three months, and thought i had lost my puzzle entirely. Ironically, It had just been solved when i lost it...

Was Fortuna accused of attempted murder? Was she accused of witchcraft?that's it!

::::: Spoiler ::::::
This puzzle was based on the Salem trials beginning on January 1692. Eight young girls began to take on a strange sickness, suffering from delirium, violent convulsions, incomprehensible speech, trance-like states, and odd skin sensations.

On Feburary the 29th, three women were arrested on counts of whichcraft, and by late September, over 20 men and women had been hanged.

Studies into behavoral psychology usually indicate that mass-hysteria was probably the main culprit, however, the trigger to the whole case was discovered to have been that of ergot. Ergot is caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, which affects rye, wheat and other cereal grasses. The fungus invades the developing kernels of grain, taking them over with a network of filaments that turn the grains into purplish-black sclerotia. Sclerotia can be mistaken for large, discolored grains of rye. Within them are potent chemicals, ergot alkaloids, including lysergic acid (from which LSD is made) and ergotamine (now used to treat migraine headaches). The alkaloids affect the central nervous system and cause the contraction of smooth muscle the muscles that make up the walls of veins and arteries, as well as the internal organs.

These rye grains would have been used in baking bread, and possibly have even gotten into the towns drinking supply.

Toxicologists now know that eating ergot-contaminated food can lead to a convulsive disorder characterized by violent muscle spasms, vomiting, delusions, hallucinations, crawling sensations on the skin, and a host of other symptoms all of which are present in the records of the Salem witchcraft trials.

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