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Archive through April 17, 2005Hannah Kinghern22 4-17-05  9:35 pm
Archive through April 29, 2005Felicia Nimue Ackerm22 4-29-05  12:20 am
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John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the blessing that they feel they have done a good deed by providing a home and family to a child that would otherwise not have had one?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John Morahan (Wunderland) on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 12:28 am:


Is the blessing that they feel they have done a good deed by providing a home and family to
a child that would otherwise not have had one? no
Birgitta Ericsson (Brid)
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the blessing that the child does not inherit some property of theirs (genetically, I mean)? if so, looks? temper? potential illness? talents?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Birgitta Ericsson (Brid) on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:00 am:


Is the blessing that the child does not inherit some property of theirs (genetically, I mean)? no if
so, looks? temper? potential illness? talents?
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm lost on this one, Felicia Nimue - I think we're going round in circles... :(
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed we are - I am well and truly stuck :(

Could we possibly have a Nimuan short recap?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 08:10 pm:


I'm lost on this one, Felicia Nimue - I think we're going round in circles... :):):):)!!!!

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 10:36 pm:


Indeed we are - I am well and truly stuck :O:O:O:O!!!!

Could we possibly have a Nimuan short recap? Add the following to the puzzle description. The misfortune with the silver lining is infertility. The beneficiaries of the silver linbing are people who have either adopted children or gotten them through some form of assisted reproduction
Ed Mason (Logician)
Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the benefit help primarily the woman? the man? both of them equally?

Do either of them have some sort of disease / phobia / anxiety that would lead to them not being able to have intercourse? to not enjoy it (which would destroy any sense of purpose of trying to have a baby)?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ed Mason (Logician) on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:33 pm:


Does the benefit help primarily the woman? no the man? no both of them equally? yes

Do either of them have some sort of disease / phobia / anxiety that would lead to them not
being able to have intercourse? no to not enjoy it (which would destroy any sense of purpose of
trying to have a baby)? no
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the extended period over which the parents would experience this benefit begin:
Before? / when? / after? they decide to adopt?
Before? / during? / after? the adoption process?
Before? / when? / after? they meet the child for the first time?
After the child has been with them for more than: a day? a week? a month? a year?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y John Morahan (Wunderland) on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 02:13 pm:


Would the extended period over which the parents would experience this benefit begin:
Before? / when? / after? they decide to adopt?
Before? / during? / after? the adoption process?
Before? / when? / after? they meet the child for the first time?
After the child has been with them for more than: a day? a week? a month? a year? The benefit might begin when they meet the child for the first time but would be more likely to start after the child has been with them for awhile. It would not begin before they meet the child
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

1) Is the only relevant point that both parents are not related by blood to their children? would the same benefit happen if one parent is related by blood, but the other one is not? (if so: would the benefit occur to the parent related by blood? to the other parent? to both equally?)

2) Are legal consequences of not being related by blood relevant? legal consequences of adoption? (name? nationality? residence permit? inheritance?)

3) Might the lack of blood relationship be an excuse for some habit/trait of the child? for the absence of some habit/trait?
Would the parents be less inclined to compare the child to themselves (or, to relatives), having in mind that there is no biological relationship?
Would they put lower expectations on the child? give the child more freedom to chose its way? not insist that the child follows the example of father/mother/aunt/uncle/...?

4) Is there a point when the benefit stops? if so: at some age of the parents? at some age of the child? with some event?

5) Does the benefit depend on the number of children they adopt? (if so: the more children, the more benefit?, the more children, the less benefit?, more children, different sort of benefit?)

6) Does the benefit include ..
.. a better financial situation?
.. a better reputation?
.. better health?
.. a better perspective for the children?
.. better family relations?
.. better quality of life?
.. better education for the children?
.. more fun?
.. more friends?
.. less pressure/ a more relaxed lifestyle?
.. something else?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jens Weber (Sundowner) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 07:15 pm:


1) Is the only relevant point that both parents are not related by blood to their children? no
would the same benefit happen if one parent is related by blood, but the other one is not? yes (if
so: would the benefit occur to the parent related by blood?yes to the other parent? yes to both
equally?) yes

2) Are legal consequences of not being related by blood relevant? no legal consequences of
adoption? no (name? nationality? residence permit? inheritance?)

3) Might the lack of blood relationship be an excuse for some habit/trait of the child? no for the
absence of some habit/trait? no
Would the parents be less inclined to compare the child to themselves (or, to relatives),
having in mind that there is no biological relationship? no
Would they put lower expectations on the child? no give the child more freedom to chose its way?
not insist that the child follows the example of father/mother/aunt/uncle/...? no

4) Is there a point when the benefit stops? no if so: at some age of the parents? at some age of
the child? with some event?

5) Does the benefit depend on the number of children they adopt? it would be a benefit associated with each child (if so: the more children,
the more benefit? see previous ansewr, the more children, the less benefit? no, more children, different sort of
benefit?) no
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If a single woman had a child by artificial insemination would she experience this benefit?
If she later met and married the sperm donor would he experience this benefit?
If two children were switched at birth and nobody found out, would their parents experience this benefit?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:28 pm:


If a single woman had a child by artificial insemination would she experience this benefit? yes
If she later met and married the sperm donor would he experience this benefit? yes
If two children were switched at birth and nobody found out, would their parents experience
this benefit?possibly
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Possibly... is that just because I wasn't careful enough to specify that I meant two unrelated children? or would it depend on some other factor?

If the latter, would that factor be some later event? or some aspect of the parents? or the children?
Could both sets of parents experience the benefit?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:52 pm:


Possibly... is that just because I wasn't careful enough to specify that I meant two unrelated
children? no or would it depend on some other factor? yes

If the latter, would that factor be some later event? yesish or some aspect of the parents? yes or the
children? yes
Could both sets of parents experience the benefit? yes
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If they don't know for sure but there is some difference between the parents and the child that leads them to suspect what might have happened, would they then experience the benefit?

In order for the parents to experience the benefit, is it necessary for them to be aware that they have gotten a child by alternative means? is it necessary for the child to know? is it necessary for anyone to know?

Does the benefit relate to some interaction between the parents and the child? does it have anything to do with what they tell the child about his/her birth and/or adoption?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 07:54 pm:


If they don't know for sure but there is some difference between the parents and the child
that leads them to suspect what might have happened, would they then experience the
benefit? yope

In order for the parents to experience the benefit, is it necessary for them to be aware that
they have gotten a child by alternative means? yope is it necessary for the child to know? no is it
necessary for anyone to know? no one else is relevant

Does the benefit relate to some interaction between the parents and the child? yes does it have
anything to do with what they tell the child about his/her birth and/or adoption? no
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this interaction involve:
the parents? / child? speaking?
the parents? / child? doing some physical activity?
the parents? / child? going somewhere?
the parents? / child? being in a specific place?
does it involve anything other than the parents and child? inanimate objects? non-human animals? anything else?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this interaction involve:
the parents? / child? speaking? yes
the parents? / child? doing some physical activity? yes
the parents? / child? going somewhere? yes
the parents? / child? being in a specific place? no
does it involve anything other than the parents and child? probably inanimate objects? possibly non-human
animals? ditto anything else? ditto
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter what they say? what they do? where they go?
Would it be useful to explore exactly what inanimate objects, non-human animals and other things might be involved?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 09:35 pm:


Does it matter what they say? yes what they do? yesish where they go? noish
Would it be useful to explore exactly what inanimate objects no, non-human animals no and other
things yes might be involved?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a conversation they would have regularly relevant? or something that would only be said once, but would have a lasting effect? would the child speak first? would the parents speak first? would the first speaker ask a question? make a statement? an observation?
Are the other things tangible? are they words?
Is the child's name relevant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 07:04 pm: Hi John!! How about directing that sharp lateral mind to my other 2 puzzles as well??


Is a conversation they would have regularly relevant? possibly or something that would only be said
once, but would have a lasting effect possibly would the child speak first? irrel would the parents speak
first? ditto would the first speaker ask a question? possibly make a statement? ditto an observation? ditto
Are the other things tangible?yope are they words? possibly
Is the child's name relevant? no
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the topic of the conversation relevant? some specific word(s)? the tone of voice? language? anything else?
Is the conversation about birth? adoption/assisted reproduction/etc? sex? is it about the child? the parents?
Are any other forms of communication besides speaking relevant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 08:20 pm:


Is the topic of the conversation relevant? yesish some specific word(s)? no the tone of voice? probably language? no
anything else? yes
Is the conversation about birth? adoption/assisted reproduction/etc? sex? is it about the
child? the parents?conversations of this sort may be involved but need not be
Are any other forms of communication besides speaking relevant? yes
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The tone of voice is likely to be: friendly? stern? angry? happy? sad? bored? excited? interested? patronising? sarcastic? other?
Is it just some communication between the parents and child that is relevant, where the form of communication (speaking, writing, etc) is irrelevant? or is there a specific other form of communication that is relevant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:04 pm:


The tone of voice is likely to be: friendly? yes stern? no no angry? no happy? yes sad? no bored? no excited? possibly
interested? yes patronising? no sarcastic? no other? yes
Is it just some communication between the parents and child that is relevant, where the form
of communication (speaking, writing, etc) is irrelevant? yes or is there a specific other form of
communication that is relevant? probably--all forms are relevant
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would communication between the parents and child in general be more friendly/happy/etc for some reason? or only in some specific situation(s)?
What they are doing: anything relevant other than communicating?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:26 pm:


Would communication between the parents and child in general be more friendly/happy/etc
for some reason? Friendly/happy communication is mostr relevant or only in some specific situation(s)? no
What they are doing: anything relevant other than communicating? yesish
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the benefit for the parents include ..
.. a better financial situation?
.. a better reputation?
.. better health?
.. a better perspective for the children?
.. better family relations?
.. better quality of life?
.. better education for the children?
.. more fun?
.. more friends?
.. less pressure/ a more relaxed lifestyle?
.. something else?

Same questions please for the benefit of the child.
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jens Weber (Sundowner) on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 01:27 pm:


Does the benefit for the parents include ..
.. a better financial situation? Parents, no. Child, probably
.. a better reputation? no to boith
.. better health? Parents, no. Child, probably
.. a better perspective for the children? yes for both
.. better family relations? yes for both
.. better quality of life? yes for both
.. better education for the children? probably
.. more fun? yes for both
.. more friends? unlikely
.. less pressure/ a more relaxed lifestyle? possibly for both
.. something else? yes for both

Same questions please for the benefit of the child.
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Everyone is really over-complicating this puzzle. What's the simplest & most obvious reason an adoptive couple would be glad they were infertile?
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They don't take the blame for any genetic problems the child might have?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 09:46 pm:


They don't take the blame for any genetic problems the child might have? no
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it simply that the parents feel that, if they had not been infertile they would never have got to have a relationship with their beloved adopted child?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:16 pm:


Is it simply that the parents feel that, if they had not been infertile they would never have got
to have a relationship with their beloved adopted child? yes!!!!!!!!
The reason many infertile couples grow to regard their infertility as a blessing is, of course, that they generally grow to love their adopted children, whom they never would have adopted had they not been infertile. I'm surprised that this puzzle took longer to sove than than "An Uplifting True Story" & others of mine that I would have expected to be much more difficult than this one. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it Hannah, & please check out the new puzzle that I am FINALLY getting to post at the bottom of the page
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

y Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 07:30 pm:


By Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:16 pm:


Is it simply that the parents feel that, if they had not been infertile they would never have got

to have a relationship with their beloved adopted child? yes!!!!!!!!

******SPOILER*******

The reason many infertile couples grow to regard their infertility as a blessing is, of course,
that they generally grow to love their adopted children, whom they never would have
adopted had they not been infertile. I'm surprised that this puzzle took longer to sove than
than "An Uplifting True Story" & others of mine that I would have expected to be much more
difficult than this one. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it Hannah, & please
check out the new puzzle that I am FINALLY getting to post at the bottom of the page

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