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David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

Anything to do with beards? very much so :) Is the Taliban relevant to the puzzle? no

By Haenlomal (Haenlomal) on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 09:38 pm:


They would not admit you because of something physical <-- your "talent" at mumbling? I've suffered for my art. Now it's their turn.

The ten tangible items, are they differenct instances of the same item? indeed they are :)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are all ten of the items to be given to the same person, or is each item to be given to a separate individual person? Are these things more in the nature of a bribe? or are they an official part of the admittance policy?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 01:58 am:


Are all ten of the items to be given to the same person, this one or is each item to be given to a separate individual person? Are these things more in the nature of a bribe? no, with the faintest hint of an ish or are they an official part of the admittance policy? no
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they won't admit you because you have a beard? Would ten razors convince them?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Lynne (Lynne) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:30 am:

So they won't admit you because you have a beard? indeed Would ten razors convince them? no
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the country in question Kyrgyzstan? Jordan? Laos? Georgia?
Are the ten items identical? (different) instances of the same sort of thing? (like ten different sorts of English beer) do they form a set of related things?
Would you have to give them away before you arrive at the border? during the entry procedure? after you entered the country?
Do they reject all people wearing a beard? those with a large beard only? those from particular countries only?
Do they reject people with beard ..
.. because they're likely to be terrorists? criminals? dissidents? bums?
.. because they (are likely to) have a property that is not desired? if so: would the ten items convince them that you don't have this property?
.. because, in their opinion, beards do not look nice?
Are the ten items documents? money? commodities that have replaced money in that country?
Is it possible to carry these items around? all of them together? in one hand? in a pocket? in a suitcase? in a backpack?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jens Weber (Sundowner) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 02:24 pm:

Is the country in question Kyrgyzstan? Jordan? Laos? Georgia? none of those
Are the ten items identical? (different) instances of the same sort of thing? they are ten instances of the same object class, as for example "ten carrots" (like ten different sorts of English beer) do they form a set of related things?
Would you have to give them away before you arrive at the border? during the entry procedure? after you entered the country? this one
Do they reject all people wearing a beard? yes those with a large beard only? those from particular countries only?
Do they reject people with beard ..
.. because they're likely to be terrorists? criminals? dissidents? bums?
.. because they (are likely to) have a property that is not desired? if so: would the ten items convince them that you don't have this property?
.. because, in their opinion, beards do not look nice? this one
Are the ten items documents? no money? no commodities that have replaced money in that country? no
Is it possible to carry these items around? yes all of them together? yes in one hand? yes in a pocket? yes in a suitcase? yes in a backpack? yes
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this country currently exist as a political entity?

I need to sort this out -- I'm confusing myself... please bear with me.

You would not be admitted to this country on the Asian continent because you have a beard? This is an official policy?

If you didn't have a beard, and were admitted to the country, you would than have to go to an individual not officially connected with the admittance process, and give this person 10 separate instances of the same type of thing, but not money, documents or commodities in lieu of money. But it's not a bribe, either (with a tiny trace of -ish.)

Since yo do have a beard it doesn't matter how many of these items you were willing to give, you still wouldn't be admitted?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 06:46 pm:

Does this country currently exist as a political entity? yes

You would not be admitted to this country on the Asian continent because you have a beard? indeed This is an official policy? yes

If you didn't have a beard, and were admitted to the country, you would than have to go to an individual not officially connected with the admittance process nor at all connected with the admissions process, and give this person 10 separate instances of the same type of thing, but not money, documents or commodities in lieu of money. well, I would not have to do so. But if I had entered the country for a particular purpose, I would have to do so. But it's not a bribe, either (with a tiny trace of -ish.) correct

Since you do have a beard it doesn't matter how many of these items you were willing to give, you still wouldn't be admitted? exactly so
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So would finding out the particular reason that you were entering the country be helpful?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you didn't have a beard, entered the country, and once there proceeded to grow a beard, would they throw you out? or impose some other penalty? would the penalty be the "usual price"?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:07 pm:

So would finding out the particular reason that you were entering the country be helpful? very much so

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 07:10 pm:

If you didn't have a beard, entered the country, and once there proceeded to grow a beard, would they throw you out? yes, if I refused to cut it off or impose some other penalty? no would the penalty be the "usual price"? no
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, then are you entering to
live and work there permanently?
live there permanently but not work there?
work there for an extended period, but not permanently (i.e. over six months)?
work there for a short period (under six months)?
study there?
teach there?
go to a conference there?
vacation there for an extended period (over one month)?
vacation there for a medium period (one week to one month)?
vacation there for a short period (under one week)?
pass through en route to another country?
get medical treatment there?

Hmmm. What am I leaving out?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:01 pm:

OK, then are you entering to
live and work there permanently? perhaps, but not necessarily
live there permanently but not work there? ditto
work there for an extended period, but not permanently (i.e. over six months)? ditto - work is not relevant
work there for a short period (under six months)?
study there? no
teach there? no
go to a conference there? no
vacation there for an extended period (over one month)? no
vacation there for a medium period (one week to one month)? no
vacation there for a short period (under one week)? no
pass through en route to another country? no
get medical treatment there? no

Hmmm. What am I leaving out? Nothing but the answer :
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it's not precisely why you're entering the country that's important, but rather, how long you plan to be there?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To play a bridge tournament? :)
To meet any client/ friend/ family member?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:25 pm:

So it's not precisely why you're entering the country that's important, but rather, how long you plan to be there? no - why I am entering the country is indeed important

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:26 pm:

To play a bridge tournament? no, but the customary bonus mark for good thinking
To meet any client/ friend/ family member? not quite, but very much along the right lines...
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to identify which Asian country (of about 5 million population) this is?
Are you going there to meet someone? Could your work be termed 'official'? For pleasure?
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could your work be termed 'official'? I meant 'Could your visit be termed official'
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:36 pm:

Would it help to identify which Asian country (of about 5 million population) this is? perhaps, and to save you further toil, I will inform you that it is Turkmenistan
Are you going there to meet someone? yes Could your work be termed 'official'? no For pleasure? one would hope so

By Arjun (Jun) on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:37 pm:

Could your work be termed 'official'? I meant 'Could your visit be termed official' no
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought Alexander prevented his men from wearning beards because they made them susceptible in war, but why in Turkmenistan

So you are going there to meet someone that's not your family or friend? Do you know who exactly you are going to meet? Or are you hoping to meet someone with a particular quality?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:22 am:

So you are going there to meet someone that's not your family or friend? not yet, at any rate Do you know who exactly you are going to meet? possibly Or are you hoping to meet someone with a particular quality? certainly
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you going there hoping to find a bride? For yourself? For someone else?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 01:16 am:

Are you going there hoping to find a bride? exactly so :) For yourself? that is the idea. I should say, lest regulars on the forum believe that this indicates a change of position on my part ir re leather jackets, that this puzzle is in no way autobiographical. For someone else? no. But it is time for some weightless poetry:

"Come", said Tom's father, "at your time of life,
There's no longer excuse for thus playing the rake.
It's time you should think, boy, of taking a wife!"
"Why, so it is, Father. Whose wife should I take?"
Arjun (Jun)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

:) Now coming back to the price you normally need to pay - does Turkmenistan normally let you in if you paid 10 somethings? And will not let you in with a beard even if you paid 20 somethings? Did I get that part right?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person to whom you must give the 10 things the matchmaker? marriage broker? or is it the woman you want to marry? her father? her mother?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Arjun (Jun) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 01:39 am:

Now coming back to the price you normally need to pay - does Turkmenistan normally let you in if you paid 10 somethings? no - the price is not the price of admission to the country. But help is at hand... And will not let you in with a beard even if you paid 20 somethings? Did I get that part right? see below

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 01:59 am:

Is the person to whom you must give the 10 things the matchmaker? marriage broker? or is it the woman you want to marry? her father? this one her mother?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ten theings, and you can hold them all in one hand, and they could cost a few hundred pounds or much more.

So: rings? necklaces? bracelets? gemstones of some type? amulets?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 03:25 am:


Ten theings, and you can hold them all in one hand, and they could cost a few hundred pounds or much more.

So: rings? this one, and more specifically... necklaces? bracelets? gemstones of some type? amulets?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gold rings? diamond rings? wedding rings?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 05:16 pm:

Gold rings? this one diamond rings? wedding rings?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is there any reason they would feel inclined to let you in because of the rings?
The puzzle statement makes it sound like it would be reasonable to expect some connection between your carrying the rings, and their letting you in. Is that just a red herring?
Is it the same kind of "logic" as for example "The man wouldn't let me borrow his car despite the fact that there are 32 pieces in a chess set"?
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it therefore that it doesn't matter how many gold rings you can offer a new bride's father, if you have a beard you would not be permitted to enter the country? So with a beard, you could not be admitted into your bride's house and family?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Torgeir Apeland (Abc) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 08:14 am:


So, is there any reason they would feel inclined to let you in because of the rings? yes
The puzzle statement makes it sound like it would be reasonable to expect some connection between your carrying the rings, and their letting you in. Is that just a red herring? no
Is it the same kind of "logic" as for example "The man wouldn't let me borrow his car despite the fact that there are 32 pieces in a chess set"? whereas this kind of logic sounds like fun, it is not the kind at work here :)

By Benjamin Moore (Zenith) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 08:22 am:


So is it therefore that it doesn't matter how many gold rings you can offer a new bride's father, if you have a beard you would not be permitted to enter the country? yes, indeed So with a beard, you could not be admitted into your bride's house and family? exactly so :) Turkmenistan does not - or did not, at the time of the puzzle statement (about a year ago) admit people into the country who wore beards. Even if they were going to boost the economy by marrying a local girl, for which the down payment consisted of ten gold rings (inter alia). The trivial step you require to solve the puzzle is to work out why this is twice the "usual price".
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm. So is the usual price 5 golden rings or 10?
Are we trying to find out why the usual price is the {5, 10} rings, or why the actual price is {10, 20} rings, or both?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Benjamin Moore (Zenith) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 01:45 pm:

Hmm. So is the usual price 5 golden rings this one or 10?
Are we trying to find out why the usual price is the {5, 10} rings, this one, though... or why the actual price is {10, 20} rings, or both? ...I suppose there is a sense in which the "usual price" might be regarded as 40 gold rings...
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is one golden ring the standard price in the dowry for something relevant in the marriage between two people?
I.e one golden ring per year's difference in age;
or
one golden ring per $10000 income p.a;
or
one golden ring for each unmarried, elder daughter in the family?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Benjamin Moore (Zenith) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 03:54 pm:

is one golden ring the standard price in the dowry for something relevant in the marriage between two people? no
I.e one golden ring per year's difference in age;
or
one golden ring per $10000 income p.a;
or
one golden ring for each unmarried, elder daughter in the family? not this kind of thing, but several most ingenious notions :) The hard work has been done, so as a gentle hint, I will mention that it is a little early for this puzzle...
Benjamin Moore (Zenith)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm. I'll take a step backwards. Are the golden rings important for their direct monetary value?
Or religios purposes involved in the wedding?
As the symbolism of 'X' amount of rings?
As the symbolism of a golden ring?
As to who will wear the rings?
As to their symbolism of the wealth of the couple?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"The Twelve Days of Christmas" relevant?

Are the other gifts in that song also part of the usual price? some of the other gifts?
David Burn (Woubit)
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Benjamin Moore (Zenith) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 04:11 pm:

Hmm. I'll take a step backwards. Are the golden rings important for their direct monetary value?
Or religios purposes involved in the wedding?
As the symbolism of 'X' amount of rings?
As the symbolism of a golden ring?
As to who will wear the rings?
As to their symbolism of the wealth of the couple? none of those. But help is at hand...

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 04:19 pm:

"The Twelve Days of Christmas" relevant? very much so :)

Are the other gifts in that song also part of the usual price? some of the other gifts? nothing as complex as this. But done is done, and here is the

***** SPOILER *****

On February 29th of last year, the world was stunned to read that:

A new law banning men from having unkempt hair has been passed in Turkmenistan.

The country's president Saparmurat Niyazov announced that long hair, beards and moustaches will no longer be allowed.

The law was reportedly passed on the grounds that hair gives outsiders the "wrong impression" of the country and is "unhygienic".

It also applies to foreigners and barbers are being set up at airports and border crossings to make sure the new ruling is adhered to.

The bizarre law is the latest in a list of strange regulations passed by MPs under pressure from Niyazov, who has been in power since 1985.

Other laws include a ban on ballet and a tax on foreigners wanting to marry women from Turkmenistan.

That levy - which includes a honeymoon bed sheets tax - is a bid to clamp down on brides using online dating agencies to leave the country.

Prospective overseas suitors have been told they will have to stump up more than £25,000 and give the bride's family ten solid gold rings before they can tie the knot.


Or at least, I was stunned. For it meant that even were I to stump up twice the usual price for true love - ten gold rings, rather than five - it would not do me any good. At least, not in Turkmenistan, since I'm not going to start shaving for anyone. Pity, since a country that has banned ballet seems to me to be an enlightened place.

Well done Barbara, thanks to everyone for playing.

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