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Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finally have some time to set another puzzle...and maybe I can convince the kid in this story to join this forum.




Title: Smart Kid

Difficulty: Easy

Type: True story

Story:
This past summer, I decided to hold an end-of-year party for my Sunday School kids. As I drove some of them from my church to my house. On our way there, we passed through a residential neighbourhood, which I often use as a shortcut between my home and my church.

There's nothing special about this neighbourhood -- it could be considered your typical upper-middle class suburbia. It's a recent developement -- it was empty farmlands before -- but real estate around Toronto has been doing well, and there no for sale signs lurking about. All the ashpalts and grass have been properly laid, so there were no tattletale signs of construction work. All the road signs and lamposts have already been erected, and everything was cleaned up.

Yet, we had scarcely entered the neighbourhood when one of my kids asked me: "Are these all new houses?" And of course, she was right.


To Solve:
What tipped her off?

Specialized Knowledge needed:
None needed

Good luck!
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Howdy.

Vegetation relevant? Building codes relevant?
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok... eliminating the obvious...

Were some of the pieces of construction equipment still around somewhere?
Was there a sign outside the neighborhood that was still up indicating the development plans?
Had you just come from a bad neighborhood and the difference in quality was very distinct?
Were all the houses empty?
Were the Garages all open? and empty?
Were there no cars/toys/obvious signs of life out front?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo

Howdy. Hi! :)

Vegetation relevant? No Building codes relevant? No

Dlcygnet

Ok... eliminating the obvious... A most sensible course of action!

Were some of the pieces of construction equipment still around somewhere? No
Was there a sign outside the neighborhood that was still up indicating the development plans? No
Had you just come from a bad neighborhood and the difference in quality was very distinct? No
Were all the houses empty? No -- from the way things appeared, it seems that most, if not all, of the houses were full
Were the Garages all open? No and empty? and no
Were there no cars/toys/obvious signs of life out front? No -- in fact, there was quite a few pedestrians on the sidewalks that day
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it something about the houses that tipped her off? the people? the layout of the neighborhood?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it something about the houses that tipped her off? the people? the layout of the neighborhood? None of these, sorry
Jens Weber (Sundowner)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, some more of the obvious things:
Has the child been in this area before when it still was empty land?
Was there a sign indicating that this development is new?
Was a street named after a person who just recently died? (or after an event that just recently happened?)
Were there only young, recently planted trees alongside the streets?

Was the child's reasoning sensible?
Would I, entering this neighborhood, immediately arrive at the same conclusion?

Did the child see many young couples, but only few (and only very small) children (a most reliable sign that they all moved there just recently)?
Were there empty playgrounds?
Was there no school yet in this neighborhood?

Which of the following is relevant:
- the style of the houses?
- the color of the houses?
- the immediate vicinity of the houses?
- the residents?
- their cars?
- the license numbers of their cars?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about signage, anything relevant there? House numbers, maybe? Sidewalks? Streetlights? Street names?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should clarify: by signage I'm referring to things like street signs and such vs. adverts etc.
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something technology related that tipped her off?
Were all the electrical wires burried rather than hanging/exposed on powerlines and poles?
Like... all the houses came with statalite dishes?
Were these ordinary houses? 1 bedroom? 2? 3? 4? apartments?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner

OK, some more of the obvious things:
Has the child been in this area before when it still was empty land? No -- in fact, that was the first question I asked, and the kid confirmed that she had never been there before, nor had she heard of any developement in that area.
Was there a sign indicating that this development is new? No -- there was one, but it was taken down on the Friday before I drove through the area.
Was a street named after a person who just recently died? (or after an event that just recently happened?) No to both
Were there only young, recently planted trees alongside the streets? Well, yes -- but that wasn't the reason why she thought that we were passing through new developement.

Was the child's reasoning sensible?
Would I, entering this neighborhood, immediately arrive at the same conclusion? Good question! Actually, it's probably not a immediate conclusion. Note that she asked me *if* there was new developement, because she knew that her conclusions could be flawed.

However, given the circumstances, I'd say that her reasoning is a "good educated guess". I hope that makes sense.


Did the child see many young couples, but only few (and only very small) children (a most reliable sign that they all moved there just recently)? No
Were there empty playgrounds? No
Was there no school yet in this neighborhood? Actually, there is a school in the neighbourhood, but we didn't drive anywhere close to it.

Which of the following is relevant:
- the style of the houses?
- the color of the houses?
- the immediate vicinity of the houses?
- the residents?
- their cars? This one, but beware of potential mislead!
- the license numbers of their cars?

Good questions, Jens. btw, I should point out that the "kid" is actually 18 years old, so maybe "child" (or "kid") is not entirely appropriate. Her name was Winnie, so maybe we can use that instead.

Bodo

How about signage, anything relevant there? House numbers, maybe? Sidewalks? Streetlights? Street names? No to all these, sorry!

I should clarify: by signage I'm referring to things like street signs and such vs. adverts etc. Understood. And the answer is still no.

Dlcygnet

Is there something technology related that tipped her off? No
Were all the electrical wires burried rather than hanging/exposed on powerlines and poles? No
Like... all the houses came with statalite dishes? No, but good guess.
Were these ordinary houses? Yes 1 bedroom? 2? 3? 4? apartments? Hmmm...they're all two storey houses, with basements. Nothing too big or small.
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the cars on the street are a key part of the giveaway?
Was the real key...
The cars themselves?
The age of the cars?
The location the cars were parked?
The size of the garages? 3-car garages? (where they used to never build more than one or two.)
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the cars on the street are a key part of the giveaway?
Was the real key...
The cars themselves?
The age of the cars?
The location the cars were parked? This one
The size of the garages? 3-car garages? (where they used to never build more than one or two.)
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey! Good to see your font again!

Were the cars parked on the street? in driveways? in gargaes? some combination? Was there plenty of parking space (unlike many older neighborhoods, where the parking is limited?)
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the streets actually wide enough to accomodate parking on either side AND thru traffic?
Were the cars actually parked in the garages?
Were the cars parked in very wide driveways?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rabrab

Hey! Good to see your font again! Heh...an interesting way to greet me back. But it's good to see you too. :)

Were the cars parked on the street? {A few in this...} in driveways? But mostly this one in gargaes? Well, didn't see any in the few garage doors that were open, but most of them were closed... some combination? Was there plenty of parking space (unlike many older neighborhoods, where the parking is limited?) Yes, parking isn't a problem

Dlcygnet

Were the streets actually wide enough to accomodate parking on either side AND thru traffic? Irrelevant, but yes
Were the cars actually parked in the garages? As mentioned above, most of the garages were closed, and the few that were open, we didn't observe any cars in them.
Were the cars parked in very wide driveways? Irrelevant, but I'd estimate the driveways to be "average" size for a two-car garage home.

I guess I should mention here that all houses in that area have two garages, so it's not a situation of having an extra wide driveway for a single garage door...
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was it the cars that gave her the clue, or was it something about the driveways? That all of them were perfectly clean, unstained concrete, unlike driveways that have been in use for a while, which may show signs of having been leaked on or had theings spilled on them?
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there no weeds coming up through cracks in the driveways (because they were too new to have cracks?)

was the pavement unusually black for all driveways not having had time to fade to grey?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rabrab

So was it the cars that gave her the clue, or was it something about the driveways? The cars, not the driveway That all of them were perfectly clean, unstained concrete, unlike driveways that have been in use for a while, which may show signs of having been leaked on or had theings spilled on them? See previous answer -- what you wrote may have indeed been the case, but that wasn't what "tipped off" Winnie.

Tigger32382

were there no weeds coming up through cracks in the driveways (because they were too new to have cracks?)

was the pavement unusually black for all driveways not having had time to fade to grey? As I wrote to Barbara above, this had nothing to do with the condition of the driveways. I'm sorry if I inadverdently gave that impression.
Mosquito (Mosquito)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a noticeable lack of old cars up on blocks?
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it the color? size? make? model?
was it the contents of the cars? did many of them still have moving boxes?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mosquito

was there a noticeable lack of old cars up on blocks? No

Tigger32382

was it the color? size? make? model? None of these, sorry
was it the contents of the cars? No did many of them still have moving boxes? So no to this as well.
Jennifer (Tigger32382)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the condition of the cars? something about their physical appearance at all? their location within the driveway?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the condition of the cars? No something about their physical appearance at all? No their location within the driveway? You've already uncovered the relevant information here...the fact that they are on the driveways in the first place. It seems though that no one has as of yet quite appreciated the significance of this fact...
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The fact that most cars were on driveways instead of in garages? Indicating people were still in the process of unpacking and the garages were full of stuff?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The fact that most cars were on driveways instead of in garages? Indicating people were still in the process of unpacking and the garages were full of stuff? And we have another winner!!!

*********** SPOILER *************

While driving through the neighbourhood, my Sunday School kid made the astute observation that ALL the driveways had at least one car parked on them. Having just moved herself, she realized that one possible explantion for this was that the garages were still full of packing boxes and stuff. Seeing that all the houses had cars parked on their driveways, she made the educated guess that all of the people may have just moved in -- in other words, a recent developement.

Well done, all for this quick little puzzle, and a special bonus to Tim for finishing this off! :)
Lynne (Lynne)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mean that people actually make room in the garages for their cars at some point?
Lisa (Dlcygnet)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No kidding. We've got a 2 car garage... only 1 car is ever in that garage. Cars live on driveways and carports. Garages are storage areas now that houses no longer get built with basements.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, the area where I live still have houses being built with basements, so people will eventually move their stuff there and park their cars in the garage.

In fact, I passed by that very neighbourhood last night, and noticed that almost all the driveways were car-free by now. So I guess they must have settled in.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or they were all out working trying to afford gasoline to drive their cars... hard to know...
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle. And do invite Winnie to join us!

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