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Archive through November 12, 2005Tim A. Dowd22 11-12-05  4:28 am
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Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 4:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...er, with regard to people/beings, I mean--there are other relevant factors, obviously.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I also feel obliged to point out (well, I feel like pointing it out, anyhow) that the puzzle statement, while strictly accurate, is intentionally misleading/unspecific in ways other than the number of items she chose. But then, it is (intended to be) a lateral puzzle, isn't it?
Paul S (Psdubl07)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want the item she purchased?
Was it food? Was it a drink? Either of those relevant?
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the cost of the item she bought plus the change she received add up to $1.05?
Was she buying the item for someone else?
Was there any unused money in the machine before she started?
Could she have used four quarters instead of the dollar bill?
Vesica (Vesica)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how many coins she recieved back as change?
Are the exact coins relevant?

Is the machine functioning properly?
Could any of us wander down to our nearest snack machine and re-enact this situation?

Did she put the dollar in first? Then the "five cent coin"?
Is the five cent coin a nickel?
Are both bits of money from the same country?

Could she have used only the dollar and still obtained the item?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Paul S (Psdubl07) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:51 am:

Did she want the item she purchased? Yes.
Was it food? Was it a drink? Either of those relevant? Nope, Let's say food.

==================================================
By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 12:59 pm:

Did the cost of the item she bought plus the change she received add up to $1.05? Yes.
Was she buying the item for someone else? Not relevant, let's say no.
Was there any unused money in the machine before she started? No.
Could she have used four quarters instead of the dollar bill? That's a hard one to answer without being misleading-I'll go with noish.

By Vesica (Vesica) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 01:11 pm:

Is it relevant how many coins she recieved back as change? Not really.
Are the exact coins relevant? Not really.

Is the machine functioning properly? Yes.
Could any of us wander down to our nearest snack machine and re-enact this situation? Possibly.

Did she put the dollar in first? Then the "five cent coin"? NO (that was the misleading bit in the statement).
Is the five cent coin a nickel? Yes, since the scenario takes place in the U. S., but that's not necessary.
Are both bits of money from the same country? Yes.

Could she have used only the dollar and still obtained the item? Strictly, No.
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So a woman walks up to a vending machine.
Has she used this machine before? or a similar machine? relevant?
She looks at it - to decide what she wants to buy?
Does she notice something unusual about it at this point?
She sees that nothing costs more than 80 cents?
She decides that she wants a particular item?
She puts in a 5 cent coin, then a dollar bill? or both at once?
She makes a selection - the item she wants to buy?
She takes what is vended - the same item?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 02:12 pm:

So a woman walks up to a vending machine.
Has she used this machine before? or a similar machine? relevant? Yes to all.
She looks at it - to decide what she wants to buy? Yes...
Does she notice something unusual about it at this point? Not unusual, per se, but something specific.
She sees that nothing costs more than 80 cents? Yes.
She decides that she wants a particular item? Yes.
She puts in a 5 cent coin, then a dollar bill? Yes. or both at once? No.
She makes a selection - the item she wants to buy? Yes.
She takes what is vended - the same item? Yes.
Rachel (Myth)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she change her mind abuot which item she wanted in between putting in the nickel and the dollar?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Rachel (Myth) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 02:44 pm:

Did she change her mind abuot which item she wanted in between putting in the nickel and the dollar? Nope.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she intend to buy the item with coins, but realize that she was short of change after she inserted the nickel, so she used the dollar bill?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 05:30 pm:

Did she intend to buy the item with coins, but realize that she was short of change after she inserted the nickel, so she used the dollar bill? No.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

~~~~~~~~~~~~ Recapification ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Statement:

The woman walked up to the vending machine, gave it a look, then fed it a dollar bill and a five-cent coin, even though nothing in the machine cost more than 80 cents. She then made her selection, took what was vended and walked off. Why did she put in the extra money?

Most of what we've learned so far:

  • It did give change (all of which she took).
  • She purchased only one item.
  • The exact amount spent isn't relevant.
  • She did not want a quarter for some particular reason.
  • She did not spend $1.05, but 80 cents or less ($.80).
  • Change is relevant.
  • There are no other beings relevant to the puzzle.
  • She put the coin in first.
  • The money is normal and only relevant for its face value.
  • She has used this machine (or one like it) before.
  • She did not change her mind about her purchase nor did she intend to use coins initially.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She purchased only one item. Did she recieve only one item? Or was the machine already showing a credit of some amount, and her $1.05 got her two items?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:22 pm:

She purchased only one item. Did she recieve only one item? Yes. Or was the machine already showing a credit of some amount, and her $1.05 got her two items? No.
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: look back for any emphasis in my answers and follow up...then release the penguins (but ONLY THROUGH THE LEFT-HAND DOOR--very important.)
Rachel (Myth)
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she buy a five cent item?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Rachel (Myth) on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 10:58 pm:

Did she buy a five cent item? Nope. Let's say the items ranged in price from 35 cents to 80 cents, just for fun, and she could've bought anything in that range.
Ian (Image)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant the type of product that the machine vended? If she had four quarters with here instead of a dollar bill, would she still have bought an item? Would she have put all four quarters in the machine instead? Did she put in the nickel because she thought she had exact change? but she realised she didn't? or she didn't want to find the change? And so she just put in the dollar bill?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Ian (Image) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 01:07 am:

Relevant the type of product that the machine vended? No, sorry. If she had four quarters with here instead of a dollar bill, would she still have bought an item? Yes. Would she have put all four quarters in the machine instead? No. Did she put in the nickel because she thought she had exact change? No. but she realised she didn't? She knew she did not have exact change before she approached the machine. or she didn't want to find the change? No. And so she just put in the dollar bill? No.
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She looked at the machine and noticed something specific. Was it a sign? if so, was it integral to the machine? taped or otherwise fastened to the machine? hanging over the machine?

Was what she noticed
something about what the machine vended?
something aboout the position of the machine?
something about the condition of the machine?
something about the location of the machine?
something about the owner or operator of the machine?
Paul S (Psdubl07)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she purposely put the nickel in before the dollar bill?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 03:45 am:

She looked at the machine and noticed something specific. Was it a sign? Yes.
if so, was it integral to the machine? This one.
taped or otherwise fastened to the machine? hanging over the machine? No to these.

Was what she noticed
something about what the machine vended? No.
something aboout the position of the machine? No.
something about the condition of the machine? Yes.
something about the location of the machine? No.
something about the owner or operator of the machine? No.

==================================================

By Paul S (Psdubl07) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 04:37 am:

Did she purposely put the nickel in before the dollar bill? Yes.

Excellent questions in these two posts, shouldn't be long now…
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the sign warn of the machine's ability (or inability?) to make change in certain amounts? (For example "out of dimes?"
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 04:21 pm:

Did the sign warn of the machine's ability (or inability?) to make change Yes! in certain amounts? (For example "out of dimes?" But no to the rest.

Almost there...
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Change given only in quarters?"

Did the sign indicate that there was a certain minimum for change given?

If she had chosen an item that had a different price, would she have inserted a different amount of money?
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"No change given for dollar bills"?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 05:01 pm:

"Change given only in quarters?" No.

Did the sign indicate that there was a certain minimum for change given? No.

If she had chosen an item that had a different price, would she have inserted a different amount of money? No.

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 05:01 pm:

"No change given for dollar bills"? No (although there might've been something indicating that it wasn't a change machine--to get change from a dollar you had to buy something--but that's not relevant to the puzzle).
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the sign disappear after she put in the coin?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 07:31 pm:

Did the sign disappear after she put in the coin? Yes!
John Morahan (Wunderland)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she saw a sign on the machine saying it couldn't give change, she started to put in the exact amount, but after she put in the first 5 cent coin, the machine realized that it now could give change, and disabled the sign. The woman, seeing this, put in a dollar and got her own 5c coin back in her change?
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Morahan (Wunderland) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 08:09 pm:

So she saw a sign on the machine saying it couldn't give change, she started to put in the exact amount, but after she put in the first 5 cent coin, the machine realized that it now could give change, and disabled the sign. The woman, seeing this, put in a dollar and got her own 5c coin back in her change? Close enough...

****** SPOILER *******
The woman walked up to the vending machine, gave it a look, then fed it a dollar bill and a five-cent coin, even though nothing in the machine cost more than 80 cents. She then made her selection, took what was vended and walked off. Why did she put in the extra money?

The woman knew she didn't have enough change to purchase anything from the machine, but she had a dollar bill which the machine would normally accept. Unfortunately, the machine had no nickels in it, and so the "exact change" sign was lit up (just in case someone needed a nickel in their change). More importantly, the bill accepter-thingie was disabled automatically when the exact change condition was detected, meaning she couldn't purchase a tasty snack or satisying beverage with her dollar.

Fortunately for our heroine, she knew that the machine probably only needed a single nickel and/or dime to decide it could, after all, make change and re-enable the bill slot, and so tried feeding it a nickel first (knowing she could hit the coin return to get it back if it didn't work).

I have, in fact, used this trick myself on occasion (although not for some time).

Thanks to everyone who participated, and special kudos to Barbara and John for making the final leaps of lateralness to put it away.

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