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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1714
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi folks - been away for a while, but ready to get some more puzzling going. Enjoy!

A man lies unconscious on the floor next to a large box. Several feet away stands an extremely disappointed man. What happened?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Post Number: 1294
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, back atcha! Lots of old-timers resurfacing, it seems.

The large box:
Under 1 foot tall? 1 foot tall? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? taller than 6 feet?
Under 1 foot wide? 1 foot? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? wider than 6 feet?
Under 1 foot long? 1 foot? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? longer than 6 feet?

Material it's made of relevant? if yes:
Wood?
cardboard?
Metal?
plexiglas?
concrete?
plastic?
fibreglas?
cloth stretched over a framework?
styrofoam?
Is it a huuuuuge jack-in-the-box?

Is the box closed? opened? intact? broken open? opened carefully? smashed?

Is there anything in the box? was there? was the unconscious man in the box at some time? was the disappointed man?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1715
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Rab

The large box...is roughly 4 x 4 x 4 feet

Material it's made of relevant? I don't know, it may help somewhat if yes:
Wood? Yes
cardboard? Not likely
Metal? This too
plexiglas? No
concrete? No
plastic? Yes, this too
fibreglas? No
cloth stretched over a framework? No
styrofoam? No
Is it a huuuuuge jack-in-the-box? No, but I like the idea!

Is the box closed? This could be said of it opened? No intact? Yes broken open? No opened carefully? smashed? Neither

Is there anything in the box? Yes was there? Yes was the unconscious man in the box at some time? was the disappointed man? No, neither man was ever in the box
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 343
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Escaped tiger?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Post Number: 780
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The man unconscious because:
- of shock?
- of concussion/something hit him in the head?
- he was cholorformed?
- he was tired and fell over?
- he tripped over his own feet?
- he was not getting enough oxygen?

Did the disappointed man have anything to do with the unconscious man being unconscious?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Post Number: 1296
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shipping box? or storage box?

Is the unconscious man's (The men need names, I think... How about unconscious man is Todd, and disappointed man is Rocky? unconscious-ness directly related to the box? To what's in the box?

There is something in the box, and there was. Has anything been removed from the box? If yes, by Todd? By Rocky? By someone else?

Has anything removed itself from the box? If yes, is it a living thing? a mechanical thing? a thing that is neither living nor mechanical, but moved because of a law of nature? (Helium balloons, for example?)

Is the thing that is in the box tangible? Is the thing that was in the box tangible?

Is Rocky disappointed because Todd is unconscious? Would Rocky be happier if Todd were conscious? if Todd were dead? Hey, it's a lateral puzzle--"dead" is practically a way of life
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1716
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Escaped tiger? Well there isn't one involved in the puzzle, if that's what you're asking...

The man unconscious because:
- of shock? No
- of concussion/something hit him in the head? Yes
- he was cholorformed? No
- he was tired and fell over? No
- he tripped over his own feet? No
- he was not getting enough oxygen? No

Did the disappointed man have anything to do with the unconscious man being unconscious? Yes, directly

Shipping box? or storage box? Neither
(The men need names, I think... How about unconscious man is Todd, and disappointed man is Rocky?) Yeah, I suppose we'll name them, it makes things easier

Is the unconscious man's (Todd) unconscious-ness directly related to the box? Yes
To what's in the box? No, not to what is in the box

There is something in the box, and there was. Has anything been removed from the box? No - good question
If yes, by Todd? By Rocky? By someone else?
Not relevant
Has anything removed itself from the box? No
If yes, is it a living thing? a mechanical thing? a thing that is neither living nor mechanical, but moved because of a law of nature? (Helium balloons, for example?) N/A

Is the thing that is in the box tangible? F/A's here, but there are tangible things in the box
Is the thing that was in the box tangible? Nothing ever changed about the box's contents

Is Rocky disappointed because Todd is unconscious? No, for another reason
Would Rocky be happier if Todd were conscious? It wouldn't matter to him
if Todd were dead? Probably not, Rocky would likely feel shock and remorse if Todd were dead, although this is pure speculation...
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 251
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At, say a minute before the scenario described, was the box in the same place it is now?
Has either man brought the box into the room?
Have both men brought the box into the room?
Is the box more than simply a box? (I can understand a box being made of wood or metal or plastic, but puzzled it's made of wood, metal AND plastic)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1717
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At, say a minute before the scenario described, was the box in the same place it is now? Probably not, good question
Has either man brought the box into the room? No
Have both men brought the box into the room? No
Is the box more than simply a box? Yes, of course
Very good questions

(I can understand a box being made of wood or metal or plastic, but puzzled it's made of wood, metal AND plastic) There is some cultural and regional type of purpose for this "box" which many may be completely unfamiliar with (unless you happen to have ever lived or visited certain geographic areas). This will not prevent anyone from solving the puzzle, it just may make more exploration necssary. When I set up this puzzle, I was really hoping that no one participating would be familiar with this type of object - this will make the puzzle more challenging yet also educational. ;)
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Post Number: 1270
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the box not intended to be openable?
Did either man try to force it open? or break it open?
Did it fall?
Did it hit Todd on the head?
Did Rocky cause it to fall?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1718
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the box not intended to be openable? No, at least not by either of these men - good q
Did either man try to force it open? or break it open? No to both
Did it fall? No
Did it hit Todd on the head? No
Did Rocky cause it to fall? No
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Post Number: 1271
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box resting on its lid?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1719
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box resting on its lid? N/A, explore
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Post Number: 1272
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Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box not have a lid?
Does it have a door? Any kind of opening?
Can Rocky see inside the box?
Does he know what it contains?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1720
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box not have a lid? Not a conventional "lid" like most people would think of, no
Does it have a door? Of a type, yes
Any kind of opening? No, not one that would be visible most of the time
Can Rocky see inside the box? No
Does he know what it contains? It doesn't matter to him what is inside of the box
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box heavy? Is Rocky's disappointment caused by Todd? Or the box? Is Rocky an enviromentalist and is disappointed about what the box was made of?
(I think this is funny...)
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 263
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the container require a key to open it?
A standard metal key of the type many of us use to open doors?
Or a combination of key presses on a keypad?
Or a combination of moves of parts of the container?
Or tools?
At a few minutes before the time of the puzzle, was the box: -
in the same room as at the time of the puzzle?
In the same building as at the time of the puzzle?
More than a few inches higher up than at the time of the puzzle?
Is the box attached to anything else significant?
Does the box require power to function?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Post Number: 7
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky just come in, or was he in there when Todd became unconcious
Sobs (Sobs)
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Post Number: 164
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box a cuboid (like a huge dice)?
Do the sites of the box each consist of the three mentioned materials? Or does each side consist of only one material?

Did Rocky know Todd out?
Did Todd have contact to the box anytime? Did Rocky?

If Todd was not there, would Rocky be there?
If Rocky was not there, would Todd be there?

Would Rocky be disappointed without Todd?
Would Todd be unconscious without Rocky?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1722
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box heavy? It's able to be moved by one person, if that helps
Is Rocky's disappointment caused by Todd? No
Or the box? Yes, this is an element of his disappointment
Is Rocky an enviromentalist and is disappointed about what the box was made of? No

Would the container require a key to open it? Yes
A standard metal key of the type many of us use to open doors? Probably, but not relevant
Or a combination of key presses on a keypad? No, not this
Or a combination of moves of parts of the container? No
Or tools? No
At a few minutes before the time of the puzzle, was the box: -
in the same room as at the time of the puzzle? Yes
In the same building as at the time of the puzzle? Yes
More than a few inches higher up than at the time of the puzzle? No, the elevation of the box never changed
Is the box attached to anything else significant? Yes
Does the box require power to function? Well not the box itself, but you are on the right track

Did Rocky just come in, No
or was he in there when Todd became unconcious
Yes, Rocky was present when Todd became unconscious

Is the box a cuboid (like a huge dice)? Yes
Do the sides of the box each consist of the three mentioned materials? No
Or does each side consist of only one material?
This is correct
Did Rocky know Todd out? You mean knock Todd out? Yes, he did
Did Todd have contact to the box anytime? Did Rocky? No
If Todd was not there, would Rocky be there? Yes
If Rocky was not there, would Todd be there? Yes, but not in his present state
Would Rocky be disappointed without Todd? Yes
Would Todd be unconscious without Rocky? No

Very good questions above
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 268
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Rocky disappointed because he can't open the box? Had Todd been trying to open the box? Were the two men competing in any way? Did Rocky knock Todd out to prevent Todd from opening the box? Relevant what Rocky used to knock him out? or did he just use his bare hands?
Is the box valuable? the things inside the box?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1724
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Rocky disappointed because he can't open the box? No, not for this reason
Had Todd been trying to open the box? No
Were the two men competing in any way? YES
Did Rocky knock Todd out to prevent Todd from opening the box? No, this wasn't his motivation
Relevant what Rocky used to knock him out? or did he just use his bare hands? Yes, Rocky knocked Todd out by hitting him with his fist(s)
Is the box valuable? Only to certain people, but in general no
the things inside the box? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 268
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box contain something which needs power?
Is the box attached to the floor? The wall? The ceiling? To a piece of furniture? To a radiator? To a staircase?
Is it possible to see the contents of the box? Though not access it without the key?
Is this lack of access the cause of Rocky's disappointment?
Did Todd move the box shortly before the scenario?
Did Rocky?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1726
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box contain something which needs power? Yesish, proceed carefully with this
Is the box attached to the floor? No
The wall? No The ceiling? No
To a piece of furniture? No To a radiator? No To a staircase? No
Is it possible to see the contents of the box? Be more specific
Though not access it without the key? The interior of the box cannot be seen by looking at it from the outside, but there is more to be discovered
Is this lack of access the cause of Rocky's disappointment? No, not at all
Did Todd move the box shortly before the scenario?
Did Rocky? No, neither of these men moved the box at any time
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 270
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With the box in it's current state, is there any part of the box which is transparent (i.e. Glass/clear plastic/mesh)? And through which it's possible to see the contents?
Is there a description (or other markings?) on the box which make it obvious what the contents are?
Oh, any other relevant persons in this scenario?
Did someone, or some persons move the box shortly before the scenario?
Did Todd strike the box?
Were the men competing to try to access the contents of the box?
Is the box some kind of TV set? Or radio?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1727
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With the box in it's current state, is there any part of the box which is transparent (i.e. Glass/clear plastic/mesh)? Strictly speaking no, not of the box itself, but keep going
And through which it's possible to see the contents? Again not strictly of the box
Is there a description (or other markings?) on the box which make it obvious what the contents are? No, but just about anyone could deduce what the contents are and they wouldn't be really interested in what's inside the box
Oh, any other relevant persons in this scenario? Yes - I was wondering when someone would ask about this
Did someone, or some persons move the box shortly before the scenario? YES
Did Todd strike the box? No
Were the men competing to try to access the contents of the box? No
Is the box some kind of TV set? Or radio? No, not either of these but explore more about it
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this box something that can be bought? Does this box belong to anyone? to Todd? to Rocky? relevant? If I went out and bought a similar box, would the contents be exactly the same? What is the purpose of this box--entertainment? decoration? a specific function? Does it need to be opened in order to fulfil its function?
Did Rocky knock Todd out simply out of frustration or was he trying to prevent Todd from doing something? What are they competing over--possession of the box? some other object? money? a person? their own abilities?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this box something that can be bought? No
Does this box belong to anyone? Yes, but maybe not limited to only one person
to Todd? to Rocky? No, not to either of these people
relevant? Yes
If I went out and bought a similar box, would the contents be exactly the same? Good question - you probably could not simply 'go out and buy' this exact kind of box, but you could obtain an identical item through certain means
What is the purpose of this box--entertainment? No decoration? No a specific function? Yes Does it need to be opened in order to fulfil its function? No, good q
Did Rocky knock Todd out simply out of frustration no, the motive was moreso...or was he trying to prevent Todd from doing something? ...this!
What are they competing over--possession of the box? No, but...some other object? Yesmoney? No a person? No their own abilities? No
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 347
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there another term, besides "box", that would more accurately describe this item? If so, and we guessed this other term, would the solution then become obvious?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1729
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there another term, besides "box", that would more accurately describe this item? Yes - There is a specific term for the item, but "box" does not fully describe it. There is more exploration to be done to fully determine what the entire object is. The actual term for it will become apparent after its accurate description and purpose are discovered. At this point it's accurate to say that "box" describes what most of the object is, but there is more to be revealed about it.
If so, and we guessed this other term, would the solution then become obvious? Well even if you guess the term but do not know the exact context it likely will not help you. There's only a short lateral leap from the purpose of the object to the situation with Todd and Rocky, and someone may be able to make it once the purpose of the object becomes clear.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 272
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky knock Todd out to prevent him opening the box? Or prevent him trying to open the box? Or prevent him attmpting to use the contents of the box?
Is it possible to remove the 'contents' of the box and for the contents to still function? Is it necessary for the contents to be removed from the box in order for them to function correctly?
Is the person who moved the box still in the room? Are any other persons in the room?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 350
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any electrical items in the box? Is the box part of a vehicle (eg cable car, sedan chair)? Is it normal for people to enter the box? Do people normally enter it one at a time? Can more than one person enter the box? Are there controls of some sort inside the box? Other means of access, apart from normal doors? Are there any underground accesses to the box? Would the box normally be accessed from above? Is it a tomb of some sort?

It isn't one of those "saw a lady in half" type boxes, is it? Did one man knock the other out because he didn't want to be beaten, or because the other man might have done something dangerous (eg caused an explosion) if he had entered the box?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky knock Todd out to prevent him opening the box? No Or prevent him trying to open the box? No Or prevent him attmpting to use the contents of the box? No
Is it possible to remove the 'contents' of the box and for the contents to still function? I'd say not, but this is irrelevant to the puzzle
Is it necessary for the contents to be removed from the box in order for them to function correctly? No, the contents of the box must be in the box for it to function, but this is also irrelevant to the puzzle
Is the person who moved the box still in the room? Yes, very likely so
Are any other persons in the room? Yes, good q

Are there any electrical items in the box? Yes
Is the box part of a vehicle (eg cable car, sedan chair)? No, not like this, but you may want to explore more because you're on somewhat of a right track
Is it normal for people to enter the box? No
Do people normally enter it one at a time? Can more than one person enter the box? N/A

Are there controls of some sort inside the box?
Not inside the box, no
Other means of access, apart from normal doors? No
Are there any underground accesses to the box?
No
Would the box normally be accessed from above? Possibly, but not necessarily limited to this
Is it a tomb of some sort? No

It isn't one of those "saw a lady in half" type boxes, is it? No
Did one man knock the other out because he didn't want to be beaten YES, this is a very accurate statement
or because the other man might have done something dangerous (eg caused an explosion) if he had entered the box? No, nothing like this
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 284
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would one usually sit on the box? Can the movement of the box be controlled?
Did the person who moved the box move it by pushing, carrying etc, or by some electronic means?
How many other people are in the room--just the box-mover? a few? more than 10? Are they disappointed too? Are some on the side of Rocky, and some on the side of Todd? Are they boxing/wrestling?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1732
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would one usually sit on the box? No
Can the movement of the box be controlled? Yes
Did the person who moved the box move it by pushing Yes
carrying etc, or by some electronic means? Not this method
How many other people are in the room--just the box-mover? No, it's...a few? more than this...more than 10? Yes
Are they disappointed too? No
Are some on the side of Rocky, and some on the side of Todd? No, it's not likely anyone else would be involved enough to 'take sides', but that's a good question still
Are they boxing/wrestling? Who?
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 286
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


quote:

Are they boxing/wrestling? Who?


Todd and Rocky; I was thinking it was a kind of mini-match where there were supporters and such..

Immdiately after Rocky knocked Todd out, was he disappointed? did something happen after the knocking out that disappointed him? He knocked Todd out to prevent him from doing something, correct? Had someone else in the room done what he had been trying to prevent Todd from doing?
Could anyone else in the room have been the box-mover or is he a unique individual who is relevant to the solving of the puzzles, with a special relationship to either Rocky, Todd or the box?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 290
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are rocky and Todd boxing? Wrestling?
Does the box contain some prize for the winner of the competition between Rocky and Todd?
Have the others in the room come to see the two men fighing? Or just bystanders?
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 287
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

of the puzzle, i mean..
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Todd and Rocky; I was thinking it was a kind of mini-match where there were supporters and such..
Ok, I thought this is what you were asking, but for the benefit of all puzzlers I wanted to clarity. No, there is no formal wrestling or boxing match going on, but the type of actions that would occur in such matches may well have been seen in the course of events that left Todd knocked out.

Immdiately after Rocky knocked Todd out, was he disappointed? NO, good q
did something happen after the knocking out that disappointed him? Yes
He knocked Todd out to prevent him from doing something, correct? Yes
Had someone else in the room done what he had been trying to prevent Todd from doing? No
Could anyone else in the room have been the box-mover or is he a unique individual who is relevant to the solving of the puzzles, with a special relationship to either Rocky, Todd or the box? The box mover does not know Rocky or Todd personally, but there is a certain connection between them. While it could have been anyone else in the room, there is one unique aspect about the box-mover.

Are rocky and Todd boxing? Wrestling? Not in an organized event, no, but their actions may have resemble such an event for a brief time
Does the box contain some prize for the winner of the competition between Rocky and Todd? No
Have the others in the room come to see the two men fighing? Good q - I'd say probably not, there probably weren't many others aware of what was going on
Or just bystanders? There may have been bystanders, yes, but none of them would have been there expecting to see a fight
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 289
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The object they were competing over--does Rocky think he will get it by knocking Todd out? Does he then not get it? Is this the reason for his disappointment? Was the item destroyed? Taken by someone else? The box mover?
Do the box-mover and Rocky interact after the defeat of Todd? Does Rocky interact with anyone else in the room? with all of them?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The object they were competing over--does Rocky think he will get it by knocking Todd out? Absolutely!
Does he then not get it? He takes possession of the object after he knocks Todd out, if that's what you are asking
Is this the reason for his disappointment? No, there is another reason
Was the item destroyed? No
Taken by someone else? No
The box mover? No
Do the box-mover and Rocky interact after the defeat of Todd? No, nor at any other time
Does Rocky interact with anyone else in the room? Yes
with all of them? No, he interacts with the only other person relevant to this puzzle
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 291
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This person: adult? male? one of the bystanders? Does he know Rocky? Todd? Box-mover? Did this person do something to cause Rocky's disappointment? Has he been in the room all along? Before Rocky and Todd entered? at the same time? after? Did he witness the fight? Does he know what's going on? Is he Rocky's ally?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This person: adult? Yes
male? Gender irrelevant
one of the bystanders? Probably
Does he know Rocky? Todd? Box-mover? No, he doesn't know any of them
Did this person do something to cause Rocky's disappointment? This person was the main cause of Rocky's disappointment, yes. However, to say that they "did something" to cause his disappointment is not entirely accurate - it should be explored. This person did act in a way that led to Rocky's disappointment.
Has he been in the room all along? Yes
Before Rocky and Todd entered? Yes
at the same time? So yes after? And yes
Did he witness the fight? He may have, but it doesn't matter
Does he know what's going on? He figures it out
Is he Rocky's ally? No, he's impartial as far as Todd and Rocky are concerned
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Post Number: 295
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky think this guy was someone else? maybe someone rich/famous who he thought he could get something out of?
Rocky was disappointed because he missed out on something material? on a privilege?
Did this person do anything with the box, which ultimately led to Rocky's disappointment? operate it? move it?
Where was the box before the box-mover moved it--outside the room? At a different corner of the room? From somewhere else entirely?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box on wheels? Casters or similar? Is any electrical machinery attached to the outside of the box? Does the box-mover push the box parallel to the floor?

Just to recap: have we established that one side of the box is wooden, one is metal and one is plastic?

Does the box-mover move the box manually? Or using some mechanical device? Perhaps remotely?

Where is the box-mover situated relative to the box: abutting it? Some way from it? Closest to the metal side? The plastic side? The wooden side?

Is there some sort of treasure hunt going on?

We've established that this is a 4ft cubic box, and that it's in a room, right? And in this room we have at least 12 people? So it's a huge room, then: is it more like an arena? Would it help to find out more about the room? Any type of fairground attraction relevant at all?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky think this guy was someone else? No
maybe someone rich/famous who he thought he could get something out of? No, he didn't think this was the case
Rocky was disappointed because he missed out on something material? Yes, but moreso...on a privilege? THIS
Did this person do anything with the box, which ultimately led to Rocky's disappointment? No, not this person
operate it? move it? This person didn't do either of these, but keep going with this idea!
Where was the box before the box-mover moved it--outside the room? No
At a different corner of the room? Yes, this is a good way to think of it
From somewhere else entirely? No

Is the box on wheels? Yes!
Casters or similar? Yes
Is any electrical machinery attached to the outside of the box? Yes, but 'machinery' is not the best description
Does the box-mover push the box parallel to the floor? Yes

Just to recap: have we established that one side of the box is wooden, one is metal and one is plastic? No, this is not correct - we've established that the outside of the box is all one material (let's say it's wood), while this and other materials are present inside the box

Does the box-mover move the box manually? Yes
Or using some mechanical device? Perhaps remotely? Not these

Where is the box-mover situated relative to the box: At what point in time?
abutting it? Yes, at one point
Some way from it? Also yes, at a certain point
Closest to the metal side? The plastic side? The wooden side? Since all sides are the same it doesn't matter

Is there some sort of treasure hunt going on? Well, not per se but you are onto something here so keep going

We've established that this is a 4ft cubic box, and that it's in a room, right? Yes, that's right
And in this room we have at least 12 people? Yes, and probably more
So it's a huge room, then: is it more like an arena? Yes, about that size
Would it help to find out more about the room? Yes, without a doubt
Any type of fairground attraction relevant at all? Nope
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone might have asked this, but are there any other people there? If so, did the new person move anything?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box run on rails? After the mover has pushed it, does it then speed off of its own accord? Or does the mover stay in contact with it for most of its trajectory?

Is the room open to the air? Is it also a cuboid? Is the floor-space rectangular? Anything else on the floor (aside from the people) that we need to discover?

These two people are competing for a certain privilege, yes? Do the bystanders know that the privilege is at stake? Would they also want the privilege?

We also have a fourth relevant person: the person Rocky interacts with. Does Rocky interact with Person 4 after he punches Todd? Before? Or both?

Is Box-mover an employee of some kind? Is he paid to move the box? Does he move boxes in this way on a regular basis? Do Boxmover and Person 4 know each other?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone might have asked this, but are there any other people there? Yes (somebody asked earlier if there were more than 10 people there and I said 'yes')
If so, did the new person move anything? No, not anything relevant. I should probably clarify the main characters at this point -

Todd - has been knocked out
Rocky - knocked Todd out then was disappointed
Box mover - manually pushed the box
Person 4 - contributor to Rocky's disappointment
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was person 4 supposed to knock todd out? If so, then Rocky dissapointed person 4 didn't?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the box run on rails? No
After the mover has pushed it, does it then speed off of its own accord? It could, but not in this case
Or does the mover stay in contact with it for most of its trajectory? Yes

Is the room open to the air? I'm not sure what you're asking, but the room is inside a structure if that helps
Is it also a cuboid? Well it has 4 walls and a ceiling
Is the floor-space rectangular? Yes
Anything else on the floor (aside from the people) that we need to discover? Yes, some relevant items and some not so relevant

These two people are competing for a certain privilege, yes? Yes, but something else is involved as well
Do the bystanders know that the privilege is at stake? Possibly
Would they also want the privilege? Yes, but there's something about the privilege that's yet to be determined

We also have a fourth relevant person: the person Rocky interacts with. You're correct
Does Rocky interact with Person 4 after he punches Todd? Yes Before? Or both? No, he only interacts with Person 4 AFTER he punches Todd out (good question)

Is Box-mover an employee of some kind? No
Is he paid to move the box? No
Does he move boxes in this way on a regular basis? Almost certainly not
Do Boxmover and Person 4 know each other? No
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was person 4 supposed to knock Todd out? No
If so, then Rocky dissapointed person 4 didn't? So this does not apply
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the moment of disappointment (the moment you've identified in the rubric) where is the box? In the same corner it started? In the diagonally opposite corner of the room? In one of the other two corners of the room? Outside the room? Somewhere vaguely in the middle of the room?

Does Person 4 touch the box at any time? Does Person 4 speak to Rocky and inform him that the privilege (& something else) is not his? Does he lose the privilege BECAUSE he has knocked Todd out, perhaps? If he had simply beaten Todd to the box, without using violence, would the privilege be his?

Does Person 4 ride on or in the box? Is Person 4 a police officer?

The plot thickens. The box is in a room which is within a structure. A shopping mall? A station? Are there many more similar rooms within the structure? Do they also contain boxes like this one? If so, how many boxes would you say were in the whole structure: 2? 3? [insert usual list]? Have Rocky and Todd also been pursuing something in other parts of the structure before entering the room?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the moment of disappointment (the moment you've identified in the rubric) where is the box? In the same corner it started? Started when? In the diagonally opposite corner of the room? In one of the other two corners of the room? The location of the box is important, but not by this context
Outside the room? No, inside
Somewhere vaguely in the middle of the room? yes, but try another context

Does Person 4 touch the box at any time? If so, it would only be after the 'moment of great disappointment'
Does Person 4 speak to Rocky and inform him that the privilege (& something else) is not his? YES
Does he lose the privilege BECAUSE he has knocked Todd out, perhaps? NO, this is not why he loses the privilege
If he had simply beaten Todd to the box, without using violence, would the privilege be his? No - good q

Does Person 4 ride on or in the box? No, nor does anyone else
Is Person 4 a police officer? No

The plot thickens. The box is in a room which is within a structure. A shopping mall? No but you have the right idea
A station? No
Are there many more similar rooms within the structure? No, just one large area
Do they also contain boxes like this one? No
If so, how many boxes would you say were in the whole structure: 2? 3? [insert usual list]? There is only one box like this in the entire structure/area
Have Rocky and Todd also been pursuing something in other parts of the structure before entering the room? This is likely, but not necessary
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, sorry: by "started" I meant its position at the moment when boxmover first set the box in motion. Is it fair to say the box is no longer in that position?

Does the box ever leave the floor at any point in the scenario?

The "something else": is this a sum of money? A prize of some kind?

How about the approximate dimensions of the room?

Height: 1 2 3 4 5 6 etc metres
Width: ditto
Depth: ditto

Is the box the main focal point of the room? Is it in fact the only such box in the room?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, sorry: by "started" I meant its position at the moment when boxmover first set the box in motion. Is it fair to say the box is no longer in that position? Yes, it's fair to say that the box is in a different place at the 'moment' than it was when box-mover initially moved it

Does the box ever leave the floor at any point in the scenario? No

The "something else": is this a sum of money? No A prize of some kind? Well, it could be described this way, at least in Todd's and Rocky's opinion, but an objective person would not use this term for it

How about the approximate dimensions of the room?
Let's just say it's a good sized room, 200 meters x 200 meters for instance

Is the box the main focal point of the room? Maybe, can you be more specific?
Is it in fact the only such box in the room? Yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box stationary at the Moment of Disappointment?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box stationary at the Moment of Disappointment? Yes

I have a better answer to your earlier question:

Is the box the main focal point of the room? Yes, but explore to avoid FA's
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm. Let's call the starting point of the box (when boxmover pushes it) A and the location at the 'moment' B. Does the box travel from A to B in a straight line? Are the two men chasing after the box as it moves?

Also: you mentioned a specific geographical location/context that some solvers wouldn't be familiar with. Would it help to explore this? Does this take place in a desert region? A mountainous one? Coastal? Very hot? Very cold? Does this happen in the US? Could it also happen in, say, the UK? Or (for the sake of argument) Belgium? Is religion relevant at all? Are these two men on a Hadj or some sort of pilgrimage?
Sobs (Sobs)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the room subterran?
Is the room empty besides the box/the people? Or are there seats/anything else?
Is this room used only for the "box-event"? Or does it usually serve another purpose?
Is it in an industrial building? Commercial? Residential? Private building? Public building?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm. Let's call the starting point of the box (when boxmover pushes it) A and the location at the 'moment' B. I'm fine with that, consider it done
Does the box travel from A to B in a straight line? Possibly but doesn't have to be the case
Are the two men chasing after the box as it moves? No

Also: you mentioned a specific geographical location/context that some solvers wouldn't be familiar with. Would it help to explore this?
It might - if you or anyone else has ever been to certain places you will be able to figure out the significance of the box
Does this take place in a desert region? A mountainous one? Coastal? Very hot? Very cold? This type of geography is not as important as...Does this happen in the US? Yes, it does
Could it also happen in, say, the UK? Or (for the sake of argument) Belgium? If it does I've never heard of it there, but there could be other places in the world where this type of action is performed. Since I live in the US I know for a fact that it takes place here
Is religion relevant at all? No
Are these two men on a Hadj No
or some sort of pilgrimage? You know, in a funny sort of way you could almost use this word to describe what they are doing (but don't get hung up on this, you're doing ok already)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the room subterran? It is a usual looking building, above ground
Is the room empty besides the box/the people? No Or are there seats/anything else? Not many seats, but many other things
Is this room used only for the "box-event"? No (good to explore) Or does it usually serve another purpose? Yes
Is it in an industrial building? No
Commercial? YES Residential? No Private building? Public building? Open to the public during fixed hours
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a question- Is person 4 an upholder of the law, and is making Rocky pay a fine for hitting todd?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the men hoping to secure a fantastic bargain of some kind?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a question- Is person 4 an upholder of the law, and is making Rocky pay a fine for hitting todd? No

Are the men hoping to secure a fantastic bargain of some kind? YES
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky miss out of the deal? Did Rocky hit Todd out of frustration?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And when in the next Trev adventure coming out? THEY ARE WEIRD AND FUN
Sobs (Sobs)
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the usual purpose of the room have anything to do with
-sports
-office work
-religion
-shopping
-transportation
-gambling

Is the building in possession of one private owner? An ownership group? An organisation (church, sports club etc)? The state?

Is the box stored somewhere in the room/the building when no event is taking place?
Is it stored at all? Or do they make a new one for each event?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the room some sort of auction room? Sale room? TV studio? Game show studio?

Does Rocky rush towards the box in the hope of buying an actual, tangible item? If so, is the item on top of the box? Inside the box and visible from outside? Attached to the box in some other way? Is there any writing on the box which denotes the item? Or perhaps the price of the item? Is the item a car? Is the item larger than a cat? Or smaller? Is it an electrical item?

Would it be more accurate to call this box a trolley? Does the box merely assist in the transportation of the item? Are the other people in the room also wishing to secure bargains? Is it a fleamarket? A market of some kind?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The box contains electrical equipment, yes? But it isn't self-propelled, is it? So is it perhaps illuminated? From within?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Rocky miss out of the deal? Ultimately yes
Did Rocky hit Todd out of frustration? No
Does the usual purpose of the room have anything to do with
-sports No
-office work No
-religion No
-shopping Yes
-transportation No
-gambling No

Is the building in possession of one private owner? An ownership group? Could be either of these, not all that relevant
An organisation (church, sports club etc)? The state? Neither of these

Is the box stored somewhere in the room/the building when no event is taking place? Yes
Is it stored at all? At times it is stored - there is some relevance of this idea to the solution
Or do they make a new one for each event? No

Is the room some sort of auction room? No, it's a...Sale room? Yes
TV studio? Game show studio? No

Does Rocky rush towards Yes
the box Yes, but this isn't his ultimate destination
in the hope of buying an actual, tangible item? Yes
If so, is the item on top of the box? Inside the box and visible from outside? Attached to the box in some other way? None of these
Is there any writing on the box which denotes the item? No
Or perhaps the price of the item? No
Is the item a car? No
Is the item larger than a cat? Yes
Or smaller? So no
Is it an electrical item? Yes

Would it be more accurate to call this box a trolley? We have established that it is a 4x4x4 box on wheels/casters that cannot move under its own power.
Does the box merely assist in the transportation of the item? No
Are the other people in the room also wishing to secure bargains? Yes, probably many of them
Is it a fleamarket? No
A market of some kind? Yes-ish, depending on your definition of market (see post(s) above about the purpose of the room)

The box contains electrical equipment, yes? Yes
But it isn't self-propelled, is it? No
So is it perhaps illuminated? YES
From within? In a way, explore
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And when in the next Trev adventure coming out? THEY ARE WEIRD AND FUN

Sorry I never posted another one, I kept running into problems with parts of the solutions. I'm getting one togeter that takes a slightly different twist, but I want to get this puzzle solved first. I'm glad to know there's interest in those puzzles, I personally love hosting them!
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the two guys are two of others in a shop which is having a sale, correct?
And the men are heading for some sale item?
And Rocky knocks out Todd to try to be first to the sale item?
And Rocky is disappointed because he doesn't ultimately get the item?
Does the third man get the item?
Does the box contain an item which is in the sale? But something other than the item the two men are competing for?
Or does the box contain something which is part of the shop but not in the sale?
Does the third man push the box in the men's way?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the two guys are two of others in a shop Yes, except...which is having a sale, correct? NO, BIG FA here...
And the men are heading for some sale item? Both men are heading for the same item, yes
And Rocky knocks out Todd to try to be first to the sale item? YES
And Rocky is disappointed because he doesn't ultimately get the item? Yes
Does the third man get the item? No
Does the box contain an item which is in the sale? No
But something other than the item the two men are competing for? N/A
Or does the box contain something which is part of the shop but not in the sale? No
Does the third man push the box in the men's way? No, but explore where he DID push it...
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, not a specific sale as such, but a shop (or market) with items to be sold?
Does Rocky think there's a sale on?
Does the pushing of the box reveal something?
Does pushing the box cover something up?
Does the man who pushes the box work for the shop? Or some delivery man? Or another customer?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, not a specific sale as such, but a shop (or market) with items to be sold? Yes
Does Rocky think there's a sale on? YES
Does the pushing of the box reveal something? No
Does pushing the box cover something up? No
Does the man who pushes the box work for the shop? NO
Or some delivery man? No
Or another customer? YES
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Rocky have been able to purchase the item if the box had not been in the scenario (all other things being equal)?

Would it help to guess what the item is? Does the item move around the room at any time? Or does it remain stationary as Rocky and Todd approach? Does Person 4 have the item throughout the scenario? Is Person 4 selling the item? Is there a sales pitch or marketing banter going on? Does Rocky know what the item is when he rushes towards it? Does he know the price of the item?

Is the item:

a cooker?
fridge?
freezer?
computer?
stereo system?
photocopier?
television?
DVD or video type thing?
a washing machine?

Is the item on the floor at the moment of disappointment?

Is Rocky disappointed:

because the item has already been sold to another customer?

because he has somehow failed to qualify for the privilege of buying it?

because the price is not what he thought it was?

because the item is withdrawn from sale?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does box-mover buy the item?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Rocky have been able to purchase the item if the box had not been in the scenario (all other things being equal)? Not in his opinion, no

Would it help to guess what the item is? Somewhat, maybe
Does the item move around the room at any time? No Or does it remain stationary as Rocky and Todd approach? Yes
Does Person 4 have the item throughout the scenario? No
Is Person 4 selling the item? In a way, yes, but not as an individual
Is there a sales pitch or marketing banter going on? Not in reality, but explore
Does Rocky know what the item is when he rushes towards it? Yes, but...Does he know the price of the item? YES AND NO - EXPLORE!

Is the item...television? Yes
Is the item on the floor at the moment of disappointment? No

Is Rocky disappointed:
because the item has already been sold to another customer? No
because he has somehow failed to qualify for the privilege of buying it? No
because the price is not what he thought it was? YES
because the item is withdrawn from sale? No
Does box-mover buy the item? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the original location of the TV one which implies it is a certain price (? or at a certain discount?), lke being under a sign saying 'everything under here half price'?
Does man 3 move the item because he's buying it?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Rocky and Todd both see a television at roughly the same time? Does it matter whether the television is switched on? And they both charge towards the television? Is the television mounted on a podium? Or a plinth, or pedestal? As they approach, is the television at a higher level than the box? Is there a price tag on the TV? If so, is it fully visible? Or is it in some way obscured by the box? Is the TV one of a number of items he rushes towards? Did the price he had in mind actually pertain to another item rather than the TV?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the original location of the TV one which implies it is a certain price (? or at a certain discount?), lke being under a sign saying 'everything under here half price'? No, most certainly not
Does man 3 move the item No
because he's buying it? So N/A
Do Rocky and Todd both see a television at roughly the same time? Yes... Does it matter whether the television is switched on? No
And they both charge towards the television? Not at first, but...
Is the television mounted on a podium? Or a plinth, or pedestal? Doesn't really matter, could be either of these (just assume it is on display)
As they approach, is the television at a higher level than the box? Yes
Is there a price tag on the TV? Yes, safe to assume there is
If so, is it fully visible? Yes
Or is it in some way obscured by the box? No
Is the TV one of a number of items he rushes towards? NO
Did the price he had in mind actually pertain to another item rather than the TV? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Rocky and Todd see the same TV?
If so, was the price tag on the TV seen by both men? Or just Rocky? Just Todd?
Was the price tag on the box, rather than the TV?
Was the price tag seen the actual price of the TV? The price of the box?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Rocky and Todd see the same TV? Yes
If so, was the price tag on the TV seen by both men? Yes Or just Rocky? Just Todd? Both of them saw the price on the TV
Was the price tag on the box, rather than the TV? Not relevant, just important to know that both men were aware of the retail price of the TV
Was the price tag seen the actual price of the TV? YES The price of the box? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something in the room (? or on the outside of the building?) which made Rocky (? Rocky and Todd? Or only Todd?) think that the actual price of the TV was less than the tag?
At the time the men saw it, would they consider the price to be a bargain price?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something in the room yes...
(? or on the outside of the building?) no, not this
which made Rocky (? Rocky and Todd? Or only Todd?) both Rocky and Todd both though itthink that the actual price of the TV was less than the tag? YES!
At the time the men saw it, would they consider the price to be a bargain price? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hang on, I'm slightly confused about the roles of Man 3 and Man 4, so I'm going to try to tie this down. Apologies for potential repeats
Was Man 3 a worker in the shop?
Was Man 3 a customer?
Did Man 3 move the TV immediately before the scenario?
Same questions for Man 4.
Did the movement of the box cause the men (or either of the men) to think the TV was being put on sale?
Did some damage occur to the TV during the scenario? If so, would this make the men (or either of them) think the item would be reduced?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most of the major pieces of the puzzle are in place, we have:

Todd and Rocky who both saw a TV for sale in a market/store. The price for the TV was clearly seen by both men. Two other people are involved here - one is another customer/patron who pushed a very significant box to a very significant location (yet not a place which would prevent the TV's price tag from being seen), and the other person is someone who works for the store who made it known to Rocky that he would not actually be receiving a bargain price for the TV he wanted. We've just found out that 'something' in the area with the TV's gave the men the impression that the TV's price was actually below what was printed on the tag, and we discovered earlier that in no place inside or outside the store was there any indication that there was any kind of special sale at the store. Rocky's reason for knocking Todd out was so that he could get to the TV he wanted, yet in his opinion he wouldn't have bought the TV if the box had not been in the scenario.

Can anyone put all this together?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hang on, I'm slightly confused about the roles of Man 3 and Man 4, so I'm going to try to tie this down. Apologies for potential repeats
No problem, the main things that need to be cleared up are concerning Man 3 and Man 4!

Was Man 3 a worker in the shop? No
Was Man 3 a customer? Yes
Did Man 3 move the TV immediately before the scenario? He moved something immediately before the scenario, but it wasn't the TV...
Same questions for Man 4. Yes, Man 4 is a worker at the shop, he is not a customer, and he never moved anything.
Did the movement of the box cause the men (or either of the men) to think the TV was being put on sale? YES! It caused both of them to think this!
Did some damage occur to the TV during the scenario? No, irrelevant
If so, would this make the men (or either of them) think the item would be reduced? No, this wasn't ever a factor
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most of it is cleared up now...focus on Man 3's role in all of this and we'll be done
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box some sort of selling platform? Did Rocky and Todd both think that the TV would be placed on the box when Man 3 wheeled it into view?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box some sort of selling platform? No
Did Rocky and Todd both think that the TV would be placed on the box when Man 3 wheeled it into view? No
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box the same object as the tv? Or a tv stand? Or a separate object? Before the scenario, does the TV stand on top of the box? At the time of the disappointment does the TV stand on top of the box?
Did man 3 move some 'sale item' sign? Did man 3 move the box itself?
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Prior to pushing, did Man 3 buy something, or do something that in a way qualifies him to push the box? Or can anybody just go up to the box and push it? Did he just get a really good deal, and pushing the box was a way of "transferring" the good deal, and the new location of the box implicated the TV as the new bargain?
Did he push the box in the wrong direction? Was he not supposed to have pushed the box?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the box the same object as the tv? NO (glad you cleared this up)
Or a tv stand? No
Or a separate object? Yes
Before the scenario, does the TV stand on top of the box? No
At the time of the disappointment does the TV stand on top of the box? No
Did man 3 move some 'sale item' sign? YES, only not a 'sign' exactly (very close, keep reading...)Did man 3 move the box itself? Yes

Prior to pushing, did Man 3 buy something, or do something that in a way qualifies him to push the box? No
Or can anybody just go up to the box and push it?
Good question - at certain times this can be done, yes
Did he just get a really good deal No
and pushing the box was a way of "transferring" the good deal No, but...the new location of the box implicated the TV as the new bargain? YES (at least two other men thought so!)
Did he push the box in the wrong direction? He pushed the box right where he intended to push it
Was he not supposed to have pushed the box? NO - great q!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me clarify that last answer, as it very well may allow someone to piece it all together:

Was he not supposed to have pushed the box? Man 3 WAS NOT supposed to have pushed the box (so depending on how you read this the answer could be either 'yes, he was not supposed to', or 'no, he wasn't supposed to')
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So at certain times the box can be pushed? And when man 3 pushed it, it wasn't one of those times?
When can the box be pushed--when there is a signal? such as a bell ringing? someone announcing something? the box lighting up?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So at certain times the box can be pushed? Yes
And when man 3 pushed it, it wasn't one of those times? Correct
When can the box be pushed--when there is a signal? Well, in a way, but what's more important is the box itself (read on)
such as a bell ringing? No, this does not take place
someone announcing something? the box lighting up? YES - both of these actions are supposed to occur AFTER the box is moved (when legitimately moved). The box lighting up was one of the keys to the solution, and I think we've uncovered enough for that to follow...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

SPOILER

This puzzle is an exaggerated example of what can happen when people fight over a sale that really isn't a sale...

In this case, Todd, Rocky and Man 3 were all visiting a department store. Todd and Rocky were both interested in a high-tech TV that the store had only one left of in stock, but both men felt the price was too high and were talking about this with each other. Man 3 overheard their conversation and decided to have a little fun with them. Once Todd and Rocky had moved on to look at other items, Man 3 pushed a box that was used as a signal that something(s) in the store is/are on sale over next to the TV display. This box has a blue flashing light attached to a pole atop it, and shoppers at the store are supposed to hear an announcement made over the intercom when an actual sale occurs - they are instructed to "look for the blue light" to find bargains. Man 3 switched the light on, moved to a safe distance and watched Rocky beat Todd unconscious in order to secure his "deal"...sadly for Rocky, he was informed by the cashier (Man 4) that someone had improperly turned on the box/light, and the TV was not on sale. Rocky probably faced legal action after this, but that's not relevant to the puzzle...

If anyone has ever shopped at K-Mart in the USA, you've seen their "Blue Light Special" (as described above). The store usually tries to keep the Blue Light box safe, but sometimes it is left unattended in a corner of the store, and some people have had fun making "sales" of their own just like Man 3 did.


A very nice solving job done by just a handful of puzzlers!
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, now can you work on the trev adventure=D
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very good!
Being a UK-based chap, I'm not familiar with the K-Mart sales strategy. But I'd have thought someone from the US would have zoomed in on this.
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah I guess all of us who were working on this are non-Americans... Maybe when I go to the US I'll try to do what Man 3 did. Seems like fun. :-)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm with you, Plebeian, very surprised someone from the US didn't pick up on the K-Mart connection. But then maybe a lot of people in the US don't shop at K-Mart, which is why several of their stores have closed in recent months...

And in case you're thinking about doing what Man 3 did, you'll have to be crafty now since apparently enough people had the same idea and the "Blue Light" is now kept locked away until the real sale starts!

Yeah, the Trav adventure is in the works, don't worry!

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