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Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

2 then 0 then 1 then 3 all for a days pay.
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 265
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

jobs relevant? could those numbers be in a different order for the puzzle to work? do the numbers refer to objects? money?

any crimes? vehicles?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 138
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the nunbers a code of some discription? Are they a combination to a safe? briefcase? security door? alarm system? other?

It's not your ATM PIN i hope :-)
Is it a password to a computer?

Are the numbers written? typed? dialled? spoken?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

/b{Damia:} jobs relevant? /b{no} could those numbers be in a different order for the puzzle to work? /b{no} do the numbers refer to objects? /b{no} money? /b{no}

any crimes? /b{no} vehicles? /b{no}

/b{Peter} Are the nunbers a code of some discription? /b{no}Are they a combination to a safe? /b{no} briefcase? /b{no} security door? /b{no} alarm system? /b{no}other? /b{no}

It's not your ATM PIN i hope :-) /b{no unless my wife has changed it ;)}
Is it a password to a computer? /b{no}

/b{hope the formatting works out ok. hope you enjoy the puzzle}

Are the numbers written? typed? dialled? spoken?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 47
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Damia: jobs relevant? no could those numbers be in a different order for the puzzle to work? no do the numbers refer to objects? no money? no

any crimes? no vehicles? no

Peter Are the nunbers a code of some discription? noAre they a combination to a safe? no briefcase? no security door? no alarm system? noother? no

It's not your ATM PIN i hope :-) no unless my wife has changed it ;)
Is it a password to a computer? no

hope the formatting works out ok. hope you enjoy the puzzle

Are the numbers written? typed? dialled? spoken? irr

sorry about the previous post.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 142
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If explaining the relevance of the numbers verbally would you say them the way you type them in the puzzle statement ie. with then between each number? or would you simply say "two zero one three? or "Twenty Thirteen" or Two Thousand & Thirteen? any of this relevant?

Do the numbers represent time e.g 20:13 or the year 2013?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If explaining the relevance of the numbers verbally would you say them the way you type them in the puzzle statement not as brief ie. with then between each number? yes if the subject was knownor would you simply say "two zero one three? or "Twenty Thirteen" or Two Thousand & Thirteen? any of this relevant?

Do the numbers represent time e.g 20:13 or the year 2013? not representing time
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 145
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these numbers relevant to you? Do you actually see the numbers? if so is it a daily occurance? weekly? monthly? less often?

Do they represent an amount of money? Anything to do with your method of commuting to work?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 54
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these numbers relevant to you? no Do you actually see the numbers? noif so is it a daily occurance? weekly? monthly? less often?

Do they represent an amount of money? noAnything to do with your method of commuting to work? no

When the genes don't fit
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 147
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is some specific knowledge of genetics required to solve this puzzle? if so i'll be here till doomsday!!

Too much to hope for that it's to do with Denim Jeans and the figures are your waist measurements i suppose:-)
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 59
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is some specific knowledge of genetics required to solve this puzzle? slight knowledge if so i'll be here till doomsday!!

Too much to hope for that it's to do with Denim Jeans and the figures are your waist measurements i suppose:-) my waist measurements only go up these days ;-) why don't my smileys work?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 150
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you should type colon and right parenthesis and nothing else. You seem to be using semi-colon.

Will get back to you when i brush up on my genetics? :-(
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you should type colon and right parenthesis and nothing else. You seem to be using semi-colon.

Will get back to you when i brush up on my genetics? :-( dna is hereditary is pretty much all you need to know.. not asking for the chemical bonds in the four nucleosides
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 530
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Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, let's tackle the "all for a day's pay" bit: is it relevant who is being paid? Is it you? Is this a true story? Does the payee work in genetics? In a laboratory? In full-time employment? Casual employment?

And we are talking about those pesky bits of chromosomes, yes (not Messrs Hackman, Wilder et al)?

Would the person being paid require a science degree? Or could any old doofus (eg me) earn the cash?

Do the digits denote numbers of things? Are other sequences logically possible, eg 3102? Is it relevant that the digits from 0 to 3 occur once only and that no digit is greater than 3? Do the digits correspond to the A,C, G and T of a DNA molecule?
Anakie (Anakie)
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Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this the number of offsprings that display a hereditary trait in a family as per generation
first gen - 2
second gen - 0
third gen - 1
fourth gen - 3
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 67
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, let's tackle the "all for a day's pay" bit: is it relevant who is being paid? yes Is it you? noIs this a true story? yesDoes the payee work in genetics? noIn a laboratory? zb{no}In full-time employment? noCasual employment? no

And we are talking about those pesky bits of chromosomes, yes yes (not Messrs Hackman, Wilder et al)? no

Would the person being paid require a science degree? noOr could any old doofus (eg me) earn the cash? earn is the wrong word. only some of us could end up in this predicament

Do the digits denote numbers of things? yesish things is perhaps the wrong word thoughAre other sequences logically possible, eg 3102? yes it would be n,0,1,n+1 Is it relevant that the digits from 0 to 3 occur once only and that no digit is greater than 3? noDo the digits correspond to the A,C, G and T of a DNA molecule? no that knowledge isn't neccesary
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Post Number: 68
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this the number of offsprings yes that display a hereditary trait in a family as per generation no
first gen - 2
second gen - 0
third gen - 1
fourth gen - 3
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, to make the big grinning smiley, do :o, except capitalize the O, like :-O
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anakie: I'm just wondering, how there be 0 offspring nin the 2nd generation, and then the generation springs back up?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anakie: I'm just wondering, how there be 0 offspring nin the 2nd generation, and then the generation springs back up? it's not offsprings through succesive generations
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

:-O
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the payees job involving:

artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the payees job involving: unemployed
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this activity related to
research?
organ transplantation?
tissue donation?

Could "pay" be better described as "reward"?

The following question is answered implicitly in March 31st post, but I would like a clarification anyway
Is the one getting a day's pay a human?
If yes, does this unemployed human have an occupation?
Is gender important to the activity? to the occupation (if any)?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this activity related to

research? no
organ transplantation?no
tissue donation?no


Could "pay" be better described as "reward"?no

The following question is answered implicitly in March 31st post, but I would like a clarification anyway
Is the one getting a day's pay a human?yes
If yes, does this unemployed human have an occupation?no
Is gender important to the activity? to the occupation (if any)?Gender is what makes this puzzle fascinating but she has no occupation. Had she an occupation the resulting events would more than likely never have occured
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are men prevented from engaging in this activity?
If yes, because of
genetics?
tradition?
lack of dexterity?

Is her "workday" longer than 8 hours?

Are entities being counted ( enumerated ? ) of the same kind? That is, could we say that there are 6 of them total? Or maybe just 3?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are men prevented from engaging in this activity?
If yes, because of
genetics?
tradition?
lack of dexterity?

Ok **HINT** just a recap the lady is unemployed and persued her course of action for a days pay ie money to live on. Men and women can both persue the course of action for money if they are unemployed. The criteria needed to get the money is what makes this very intreasting. So in summary men are not prevented from this course of action

Is her "workday" longer than 8 hours? unemployed

Are entities being counted ( enumerated ? ) of the same kind? That is, could we say that there are 6 of them total? Or maybe just 3?

**HINT** entities are being counted in one sense of the word but when the entitie is zero it doesn't mean it's not in existance any more just not with the same person. I hope this helps
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with children? Hers? Relatives'? Strengers'?

From 2 to 3, what time period is covered: a day, a month, a year, ten years?

Are some geographical locations more likely for this occurance than others?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have something to do with children? yesHers? yesRelatives'? noStrengers'?no

From 2 to 3, what time period is covered: a day, a month,~5 monthsa year, ten years?

Are some geographical locations more likely for this occurance than others? unknown
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2007 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

any crimes? no. (can i just change this to no but it was thought there was)
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter:
how old the children are?
how many she has?

Were the children sold? "rented" for some purpose?

Is this equally likely to happen in any country?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter:

how old the children are? not really apart when the children go from 0 to 3
how many she has? not at all


Were the children sold? "rented" for some purpose? no not sold or rented

Is this equally likely to happen in any country? In a weird sort of way this is more likely to happen in a developed and socially responsive country
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the woman pregnant?
Did she actually have to do anything to get the money? Would what she did have been considered work?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the woman pregnant? yes at the 0 stage
Did she actually have to do anything to get the money? she had to apply for something Would what she did have been considered work? not by any stretch of the imagination although she had to fight very hard to get it and to clear her name.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did she have 2 children, and then lose them somehow? And then she was pregnant, having no children, then gave birth, having 1 child, and then later either had 2 more children or got her orignal ones back? Am I right in this?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did she have 2 children, and then lose them somehow? And then she was pregnant, having no children, then gave birth, having 1 child, and then later either had 2 more children or got her orignal ones back? Am I right in this? yes perfect so far, all the above with getting her original children back
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were her children taken away because it was thought she committed a crime? Relevant what that crime was?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were her children taken away because it was thought she committed a crime? yes Relevant what that crime was? yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she accused of incest?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she accused of incest? No
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her crime anything to do with children? Did they take her children away because they thought she might pose a danger to them? Because she seemed to be an unfit mother?
Was what she was accused of to do with theft? Murder? Assault? Was it a crime involving harm to someone? Something? Was it a fairly non-serious crime?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her crime anything to do with children? yes but not a crime against children if you know what i mean
Did they take her children away because they thought she might pose a danger to them? not really but this could have been part of their argument against her
Because she seemed to be an unfit mother? as above
Was what she was accused of to do with theft? noish
Murder? no Assault? no Was it a crime involving harm to someone? no Something? no Was it a fairly non-serious crime? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any doubt that the children were legally hers?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any doubt that the children were legally hers? very good yes but expand
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think she had kidnapped them? That they had been switched at bith with her children? Or was there some doubt if she conceived them legally? You said no to incest but was she underage when she had them? Anything like this? Did someone else claim that the children belonged to them?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think she had kidnapped them? no That they had been switched at bith with her children? \b {no }Or was there some doubt if she conceived them legally? noish You said no to incest but was she underage when she had them? no Anything like this? no Did someone else claim that the children belonged to them? only the father
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she:
using children to get extra benefits?
using them as models for paintings or photographs?
dressing girls up as boys or the other way around?
leaving them home alone?

Are the first two children her biological ones?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she:
using children to get extra benefits? yes
using them as models for paintings or photographs? no
dressing girls up as boys or the other way around? no
leaving them home alone? no

Are the first two children her biological ones? yesish
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she pretend to have more children than she actually did? Or pretend to have less children? Di she give birth to these two children herself? Did she lie about their ages?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she pretend to have more children than she actually did? no Or pretend to have less children? no Di she give birth to these two children herself? yes Did she lie about their ages? no
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she a surrogate mother to either of the first two children?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 9:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she a surrogate mother to either of the first two children? no the children were hers and lived with her prior to losing them.
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

**HINT**

The difference is between perceived and actual realities ie what the woman knows and what the world thinks
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that some kid menus have things on them like: 0-12 years old... blah blah blah... and you get one free per adult meal bought?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that some kid menus have things on them like: 0-12 years old... blah blah blah... and you get one free per adult meal bought? No nothing to do with discounts or deals for children
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Child support relevant?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Child support relevant? Extremely relevant
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So....did she sue her husband for it?
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait!

I had an idea from the title.
Were the two children, biologically her husband's or was she having an affair?(or a drunken mishap?)

Did her husband prove by DNA testing that she had been unfaithful?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait!

I had an idea from the title.
Were the two children, biologically her husband's yes or was she having an affair? no(or a drunken mishap? no )

Did her husband prove by DNA testing that she had been unfaithful? no, but this is the right sort of line of enquiry
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she getting her husband to pay child support when he shouldn't have? And she felt it was justified for some reason (maybe just as he was the one that got her pregnant) but the way the world saw it, she was committing benefit fraud?
Was she still in a relationship with the father when the children were born? When they were taken away? Was there a custody battle of some kind? Did the father claim that they legally belonged to him? When they were taken away, did they go to live with the father?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she getting her husband to pay child support when he shouldn't have? No the support was from the state And she felt it was justified for some reason yes she felt it was very justified
(maybe just as he was the one that got her pregnant yes he probably did)
but the way the world saw it, she was committing benefit fraud? yes the world saw it that she was commiting benefit fraud but why? and how did she clear her name
Was she still in a relationship with the father when the children were born? not in a relationship with the father of the first three When they were taken away? Was there a custody battle of some kind? no
Did the father claim that they legally belonged to him? noWhen they were taken away,
did they go to live with the father? no
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 6:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any of the children illegitimate?
1st?
2nd?
3rd?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you clarify these points, please:

Are the first two children her biological ones? yesish
These two are hers and her husband's, she gave birth to both of them, yet they are only "marginally" her biological children according to the answer above. Is it because there is something that makes them not entirely hers, or because they were perceived as not belonging to her?

Was she still in a relationship with the father when the children were born? not in a relationship with the father of the first three
Is this a typo or a clue?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any of the children illegitimate?
1st? irr
2nd? irr
3rd? irr

Could you clarify these points, please:

Are the first two children her biological ones? yesish because the classic definition is not entirely fulfilled
These two are hers and her husband's, she gave birth to both of them, yet they are only "marginally" her biological children according to the answer above. Is it because there is something that makes them not entirely hers yes, or because they were perceived as not belonging to her? because there was something that made that
made the children not entirely hers the children were not perceived as hers


Was she still in a relationship with the father when the children were born? for the first two not in a relationship with the father of the first three
Is this a typo or a clue? I guess this make it a bit ambiguous, she was in a relationship with the father for the first two, then were seperated when the third was born
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something like the children had brown eyes, but both parents had blue eyes which should be genetically impossible? Or the bloodtypes didn't match? Did they do a DNA test to see if she was the mother? Or if the father was really their father?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something like the children had brown eyes, but both parents had blue eyes which should be genetically impossible? no Or the bloodtypes didn't match? no Did they do a DNA test to see if she was the mother? yes Or if the father was really their father? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something prompt them to do the test? Did one of the parents insist? Did the results show that they were the legal parents, so she got her kids back? Or did it somehow give a false reading? Was there anything unusual about the genes of the mother? The father? The children?
Was the crime she was accused of claiming benefits for children who weren't hers?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something prompt them to do the test? irr
Did one of the parents insist? no
Did the results show that they were the legal parents no to one, so she got her kids back? no she lost her kids first then gained them back
Or did it somehow give a false reading? no Was there anything unusual about the genes of the mother? yes The father? no
The children? yes
Was the crime she was accused of claiming benefits for children who weren't hers? that was the crime she was accused of
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the test show that she was not the mother, but the father was their biological father? Or vice versa?
Does the mother have a hereditary condition that she passed onto their children? An illness? Something very rare like albinoism? Or something like an extra finger on one hand?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the test show that she was not the mother, but the father was their biological father? yes Or vice versa?
Does the mother have a hereditary condition that she passed onto their children? An illness? Something very rare like albinoism? Or something like an extra finger on one hand? no
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is still a twist to this tale
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the unusual thing about mother's and children's genes the fact that they do not match, or is there something else?

Was there a similar discrepancy between mother's genes and that of the third child?

Something had prompted authorities to question maternity and perform the tests. Do children look very different from their mother? father? Does it matter what the difference is?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the unusual thing about mother's and children's genes the fact that they do not match, or is there something else? the genes don't match which resulted in.....?

Was there a similar discrepancy between mother's genes and that of the third child? yes

Something had prompted authorities to question maternity and perform the tests irr but the authorities did the test then followed through with a series of actions and during the pregnacy of the thrid. Do children look very different from their mother? father? More than likely more similar to the father Does it matter what the difference is? no
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:
A woman gets separated from her husband and applies for social welfare support for her two children ( and herself, probably ). Authorities suspect that children are not related to her and DNA testing "proves" it, so kids are taken away. She then gives birth to her third child, who is also shown by the DNA tests to be "not hers". This fact helps the woman get her first two children back ( and get support for them, too ).
All children have been conceived naturally, and are her husband's ( according to DNA testing ), so there is no possibility that a donor's eggs were used. And yet somehow the DNA test does not match her with her offspring.


Does it matter how much DNA testing was performed? For example, it is often sufficient to check parents' blood types to show that a child could not be their common offspring.
Did this case lead to a discovery of a new allele?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:
A woman gets separated from her husband and applies for social welfare support for her two children ( and herself, probably ). Authorities suspect that children are not related to her and DNA testing "proves" it, so kids are taken away. She then gives birth to her third child, who is also shown by the DNA tests to be "not hers". This fact helps the woman get her first two children back ( and get support for them, too ).
All children have been conceived naturally, and are her husband's ( according to DNA testing ), so there is no possibility that a donor's eggs were used. And yet somehow the DNA test does not match her with her offspring. All true so far

Does it matter how much DNA testing was performed? For example, it is often sufficient to check parents' blood types to show that a child could not be their common offspring. Yesish
Did this case lead to a discovery of a new allele? No
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that was unusual about the mother's genes: does she have some genetic disorder which her children did not have? Or did her children have a disorder she didn't have?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that was unusual about the mother's genes: does she have some genetic disorder which her children did not have? Yes Or did her children have a disorder she didn't have? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the reason they thought she was not the real mother because her children didn't have the disorder? Did this lead to any kind of scientific discovery eg they discovered that what they thought was a recessive gene was actually dominant?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 7:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the reason they thought she was not the real mother because her children didn't have the disorder? No Did this lead to any kind of scientific discovery No but the 'condition' sent a few shock waves into the legal system eg they discovered that what they thought was a recessive gene was actually dominant? no
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this 'condition' linked with the sex chromosomes?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this 'condition' linked with the sex chromosomes? only fractionally
Zenith (Zenith)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 2:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

chimera?
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

chimera? Right on the nose.Spot on Zenith.
Goldenspiral (Goldenspiral)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*****SPOILER*****

Lydia Fairchild was pregnant with her third child, when she and the father of her children, Jamie Townsend, separated. When Fairchild applied for welfare support in 2002, she was requested to provide DNA evidence that Townsend was the father of her children. While the results showed Townsend was certainly the father of the children, the DNA tests indicated that she was not their mother.

This resulted in Fairchild being taken to court for fraud for claiming benefit for other people's children or taking part in a surrogacy scam. Hospital records of her prior births were disregarded. Prosecutors called for her two children to be taken into care. As time came for her to give birth to her third child, the judge ordered a witness be present at the birth. This witness was to ensure that blood samples were immediately taken from both the child and Fairchild. Two weeks later, DNA tests indicated that she was not the mother of that child either.

A breakthrough came when a lawyer for the prosecution found an article in the New England Journal of Medicine about a similar case that had happened in Boston, and realised that Fairchild's case might also be caused by chimerism. In 1998, 52-year old Boston teacher Karen Keegan was in need of a kidney transplant. When her three adult sons were tested for suitability as donors, it was discovered that two of them did not match her DNA to the extent that her biological children should. Later testing showed that Keegan was a chimera, a combination of two separate sets of cell lines with two separate sets of chromosomes, when a second set of DNA was found in other tissues[3]. This DNA presumably came from a different embryo than the one that gave rise to the rest of her tissues.

Fairchild's prosecutors suggested this possibility to her lawyers, who arranged further testing. As in Keegan's case, DNA samples from extended members of the family were taken. The DNA for Fairchild's children matched that of her mother to the extent expected of a grandmother. They also found that while the DNA in Fairchild's skin and hair did not match her children, the DNA from a cervical smear test was different and did match. Fairchild was carrying two different sets of DNA, the defining characteristic of a chimera.


Above paragraph was taken from Wikipedia
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fascinating!

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