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Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 380
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2007 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is another puzzle which is not google proof, but since there are only persons of integrity on this forum I don't worry.

One of the most expensive coffees in the world is obtained by a rather funny procedure. How?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 760
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about the means of harvesting and/or cultivating the raw beans? Or should we focus more on the brewing stage? Does it matter where in the world this coffee is produced?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 393
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about the means of harvesting mostly this and/or cultivating and much less that the raw beans?
Or should we focus more on the brewing stage? no
Does it matter where in the world this coffee is produced? Yes, it might help to find out the place where this happens
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

north america?
south america?
africa?
europe?
australia?
antartica?
asia?

specifics:
peru?
columbia?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 395
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

north america?
south america?
africa?
europe?
australia?
antartica?
asia? this

specifics:
peru?
columbia?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 109
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afghanistan? Armenia? Azerbaijan? Bahrain? Bangladesh? Bhutan? Brunei? Cambodia? China? Georgia? Hong Kong? India? Indonesia? Iran? Iraq? Israel? Japan? Jordan? Kazakstan? Korea, North? Korea, South? Kuwait? Kyrgyzstan? Laos? Lebanon? Malaysia? Maldives? Mongolia? Myanmar?
Nepal? Oman? Pakistan? Philippines? Qatar? Russia? Saudi Arabia? Singapore? Sri Lanka? Syria? Taiwan? Tajikistan? Thailand? Turkey?Turkmenistan? United Arab Emirates? Uzbekistan? Vietnam? Yemen?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 400
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indonesia
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 417
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there an Indonesian custom involved? does it involve what equipment they use?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 404
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there an Indonesian custom involved? No, only the custom to obtain the coffee in this way. It is for some reason specific to this region.
does it involve what equipment they use? no, you wouldn't call it equipment
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 420
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would I have to know how coffee is usually harvested etc to ask questions on this? do they do it by hand? while others use machines?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 409
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would I have to know how coffee is usually harvested etc to ask questions on this? there is no particular knowledge required
do they do it by hand? yope
while others use machines? no machines are used in the process you have to find out
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1841
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This will be an eye-opening puzzle for many who have not heard about this previously - super idea for a puzzle!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 419
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 9:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Ixoye, I thought that this story had already been used as a puzzle but I couldn't find it in the archive.
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 426
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they use some part of their body to do something to the coffee? stamp on it or something like they do with wine? do they use tools at all? if so do we need to know what tool?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 421
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I suppose that 'they' stands for 'the people producing the coffee'.
do they use some part of their body to do something to the coffee? no
stamp on it or something like they do with wine? no
do they use tools at all? noish
if so do we need to know what tool? not a tool but...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 1844
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will be interested to see if, in the course of this puzzle, anyone emerges who has tasted this type of coffee...
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Post Number: 105
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are animals involved?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 425
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are animals involved? yes
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 441
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

urmm I sincerely hope not, but does it involve the animals eating the coffee? or any end waste the animals might produce? is it domestic animal? horse? cow?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 427
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

urmm I sincerely hope not, but does it involve the animals eating the coffee? yes
or any end waste the animals might produce? yes, I'm afraid
is it domestic animal? yope horse? no cow? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 291
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah yes...I thought I knew this one and now I'm sure I do...I'm keeping quiet though! I agree with Ixoye724...great idea for a puzzle!
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Birds are known to help spread the range of plants by eating their seeds, digesting hard outer shell, and then depositing whole, intact, but "naked" seed far away from its origins, ready for germination.
So, is the domestic animal a bird? chicken? turkey?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 446
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are we talking about the seeds here though? I thought we working out the harvesting method..? if not those bird is it another farm animal? or something smaller does it have fur? hooves? claws? 4 legs? tail?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 429
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Birds are known to help spread the range of plants by eating their seeds, digesting hard outer shell, and then depositing whole, intact, but "naked" seed far away from its origins, ready for germination. This is on the right track.
So, is the domestic animal a bird? chicken? turkey? But the animal is not a bird.

are we talking about the seeds here though?
I thought we working out the harvesting method..?
For coffee, as far as I know, you harvest the seed.
if not those bird is it another farm animal? no
or something smaller it is smaller than a cow
does it have fur? yes hooves? no claws? yes 4 legs? yes tail? yes
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 458
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a cat? dog? smaller than a cat? larger than a dog?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 432
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a cat? dog? smaller than a cat? larger than a dog?
It is a catlike animal (not from the cat family though).
So what happens exactly and why is the coffe extraordinary?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 140
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ferret? weasel? chinchilla? guinea pig?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Post Number: 1001
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 3:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stoat?Whoa, where did I post my number 1000?? Over 1000 now!!!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 434
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ferret? weasel? chinchilla? guinea pig?

Stoat?

You needn't find out the exact species. I think that this animal is only know for it's connection to coffee.
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 149
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, I am a little confused, and hope I am not way off...
so we have a domestic animal that eats seeds used for coffee and then poops them out. The people collect this "refuse," correct?

Regarding the "refuse":
do they plant it, grow coffee plants and harvest these beans for the coffee?

Do they use the "refuse" simply for fertilizer for the coffee bushes?

I hope not this, but are they using the "refuse" as the coffee itself? I could imagine the drinkers saying, "mmmm rich aroma!" Makes me kind of glad I don't drink coffee!
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 822
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it perhaps that the furry critter eats the coffee beans but doesn't fully digest them? So there would be some beans passed through its intestines, which would then be collected (and hopefully washed) and brewed as normal? Or is there another stage in the process? I assume this imparts a special flavour as it passes through the animal?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 437
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 7:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, I am a little confused, and hope I am not way off...
so we have a domestic animal that eats seeds used for coffee and then poops them out. The people collect this "refuse," correct? yes (FYI: it is only 'yope' a domestic animal but that is not really important)

Regarding the "refuse":
do they plant it, grow coffee plants and harvest these beans for the coffee? no

Do they use the "refuse" simply for fertilizer for the coffee bushes? no

I hope not this, but are they using the "refuse" as the coffee itself? yes
I could imagine the drinkers saying, "mmmm rich aroma!" Makes me kind of glad I don't drink coffee! Well I do drink coffee but as far as I know I have never tried this one (which makes me kind of glad).

Is it perhaps that the furry critter eats the coffee beans but doesn't fully digest them? yes
So there would be some beans passed through its intestines, which would then be collected (and hopefully washed) and brewed as normal? yes
Or is there another stage in the process? no
I assume this imparts a special flavour as it passes through the animal? yes

This round of questions got you very close. One question remains: Why is this coffee said to be excellent (people pay $10 for a cup)? You already found one aspect of the explanation: the beans are partially digested. But there is another reason.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 829
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I assume that the beastie excretes the pellets on the ground, yes? ... and I suppose that it must be quite difficult for the collectors to find them: is this it? Or do the collectors demand a premium for scooping up animal ordure? Or does our furry friend actually eat something else, besides the coffee, that imparts the fine flavour? Such as a herb or spice? Does it simply cost more to scrape the residues off the coffee beans? Or is it just snob value? Or is there a fermentation process at work as well? Is the coffee alcoholic or something like that? (If so, I want some.)
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 438
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I assume that the beastie excretes the pellets on the ground, yes? yes, I think so
... and I suppose that it must be quite difficult for the collectors to find them: is this it? Yes, this is one of the issues making the coffee expensive.
Or do the collectors demand a premium for scooping up animal ordure? No, I don't think so
Or does our furry friend actually eat something else, besides the coffee, that imparts the fine flavour? Such as a herb or spice? No, I don't think so
Does it simply cost more to scrape the residues off the coffee beans? This is another issue making the coffee expensive.
Or is it just snob value? No, I don't think so
Or is there a fermentation process at work as well? I would rather call it digestion (as already found out) than fermentation.
Is the coffee alcoholic or something like that? (If so, I want some.) No, I'm afraid you will have to add whiskey or something.

In fact I am looking for a circumstance taking place before the digestion that makes the coffee so good. Any ideas? Otherwise I will spoyl soon as this one is pretty much solved.
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 441
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

------------ SPOILER ------------

The Wikipedia entry:
The Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus), also known as the Common Palm Civet or the Toddy Cat, is a cat-sized mammal in the family Viverridae native to south-east Asia and southern China. (...) Kopi Luwak is coffee that is prepared using coffee cherries that have been eaten by the animal, partially digested, and harvested from its feces.

I had another link that is not valid any more but here is a third one:
(...) Guests of an East Java plantation will almost certainly be offered Kopi Luwak for breakfast. The secret of this delicious blend of coffee, usually explained only after the guest has drained his mug to the last drop, lies in the bean selection, which is performed by a luak, a species of civet cat endemic to Java. The luak will eat only the choicest, most perfectly matured beans which it then excretes, partially digested, a few hours later. Plantation workers then retrieve the beans from the ground, ready for immediate roasting.

The fact that the civet eats only the ripest coffee cherries was the thing I wanted you to find out in the end but anyway.

Thank you for playing and commending this puzzle!

Has anyone on the forum ever tried Kopi Luwak?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 879
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Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, I see: it's a very choosy beastie. I should have guessed, as the owner of a VERY picky cat. I've been dying to Google this all week, not least because I only half believed it.

I certainly intend to try it. You can buy it online, apparently: www.animalcoffee.com :-)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now, or course, someone can easily see why you'd pay $10 a cup for this coffee (not that everyone would be interested, given the harvesting method). The more that I see Starbucks raising their prices for a cup of coffee, the more I wonder about their harvesting...
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 444
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Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the link with the photos, Woodworm. Different from what I thought, the excrements don't look disgusting. Please let us know your opinion if you should really try the coffee.

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