| Author | Message | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1059 Registered: 6-2001 |
The evidence seemed overwhelming, but the minister was perfectly innocent. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 613 Registered: 4-2007 |
The minister=human? adult? male? A politician? Relevant what he is the minister of? Evidence for the minister's guilt? For his innocence? Was the minister accused of a crime? Was he convicted? Is there a trial involved in this puzzle? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 585 Registered: 8-2006 |
How many other people are involved: 0? 1? 2? ... Are any witnesses relevant? any pieces of evidence? Is this a true story? from your own imagination? Is the era relevant? the place? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 3306 Registered: 12-2000 |
Minister - of religion? Male, female? Was he/she playing poker? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 3308 Registered: 12-2000 |
I should have read the title But the question about poker still stands! And the male female bit :-) | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1061 Registered: 6-2001 |
The minister=human? adult? male? A politician? yes to all Relevant what he is the minister of? yes-ish Evidence for the minister's guilt? yes For his innocence? no Was the minister accused of a crime? yes Was he convicted? no Is there a trial involved in this puzzle? no How many other people are involved: 0? 1? 2? ... let's say three specific people, although there may be more Are any witnesses relevant? no any pieces of evidence? well... yes Is this a true story? no from your own imagination? yes Is the era relevant? not really, but let's say mid-to-late 20th century the place? yes Minister - of religion? Male, female? no, Male Was he/she playing poker? no I should have read the title But the question about poker still stands! And the male female bit :-) titles have been known to be Red Herrings, so it was probably a good idea to ask (: | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 593 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is he the minister of a country? of a state or a region? of some other entity? Is he minister of: State/foreign affairs? Treasury? Defense? Justice? Interior? Agriculture? Commerce? Labor? Health and Human Services? Housing and Urban Development? Transportation? Energy? Education? Veterans Affairs? Homeland Security? Other? Did this happen in Europe? North America? South America? Africa? Asia? Oceania? Are there relevant places like buildings to be found out? how many? Are the jobs of the other people relevant? Was the piece of evidence an object? The crime he was accused of: assault? battery? black market? blackmail? extortion? breach of contract? burglary? trespass? computer crime? destroying property? vandalism? arson? eco-crime? poacher? cruelty to animals? forgery? counterfeiting? fraud? cardsharper? embezzlement? homicide? murder? manslaughter? accidental killing? identity theft? illegal gambling? illegal possesion or trade of objects or substances (weapons, drugs, ...)? inchoate offense? kidnapping? libel? menace? negligence? failure to render assistance? perjury? sexual offenses? sexual assault? smuggling? stealing? pickpocketing? looting? robbery? larceny? piracy? subversive activities? dissident? incitement of the people? terrorism? traffic offence? treason? disertion? espionage? unfair competition? violation of intellectual property rights or copyrights? violation of privacy? stalking? disrupting the peace? harassment? war crime? white-collar crime? evasion? Other? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1063 Registered: 6-2001 |
Is he the minister of a country? yes of a state or a region? of some other entity? Is he minister of: State/foreign affairs? Treasury? Defense? Justice? Interior? Agriculture? Commerce? yes Labor? Health and Human Services? Housing and Urban Development? Transportation? Energy? Education? Veterans Affairs? Homeland Security? Other? Did this happen in Europe? yes North America? South America? Africa? Asia? yes Oceania? Are there relevant places like buildings to be found out? how many? no-ish Are the jobs of the other people relevant? yes Was the piece of evidence an object? no-ish The crime he was accused of: assault? battery? black market? blackmail? extortion? breach of contract? burglary? trespass? computer crime? destroying property? vandalism? arson? eco-crime? poacher? cruelty to animals? forgery? counterfeiting? fraud? cardsharper? embezzlement? homicide? murder? manslaughter? accidental killing? identity theft? illegal gambling? illegal possesion or trade of objects or substances (weapons, drugs, ...)? inchoate offense? kidnapping? libel? menace? negligence? failure to render assistance? perjury? sexual offenses? sexual assault? smuggling? stealing? pickpocketing? looting? robbery? larceny? piracy? subversive activities? dissident? incitement of the people? terrorism? traffic offence? treason? disertion? espionage? unfair competition? violation of intellectual property rights or copyrights? violation of privacy? stalking? disrupting the peace? harassment? war crime? white-collar crime? evasion? none of the above! Other? so this | ||
| Christine (Christine)
New member Username: Christine Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 |
Was somebody else convicted of the crime? Was somebody else of the three relevant people in the puzzle guilty of the crime? Had the minister commited the crime? Had somebody framed the minister? Are the other people government officials? This happens in Europe and Asia? Simultaneously? Or, could happen in those places? Or both places are relevant to the solution? Is he the minister of commerce in a European country? Was the crime punishable by jailtime, death, or a fine? Was it a crime as in simply breaking the rule of a game? Was the evidence against the minister? | ||
| Alex319 (Alex319)
New member Username: Alex319 Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2007 |
Was the crime adultery? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1067 Registered: 6-2001 |
Was somebody else convicted of the crime? yes - eventually Was somebody else of the three relevant people in the puzzle guilty of the crime? yes-ish Had the minister commited the crime? no Had somebody framed the minister? yes Are the other people government officials? yes This happens in Europe and Asia? yes Simultaneously? no Or, could happen in those places? no Or both places are relevant to the solution? this one Is he the minister of commerce in a European country? yes Was the crime punishable by jailtime, death, or a fine? jailtime Was it a crime as in simply breaking the rule of a game? no Was the evidence against the minister? yes Was the crime adultery? no | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 597 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is he minister in the north? east? south? west? centre? of Europe? UK? France? Germany? Italy? Is the other place in the north? east? south? west? centre? of Asia? Are the other people colleagues of him? working in his ministry? in other ministries? working in the same country? Is the trade or exchange between the two countries involved relevant? Did he go to Asia? on a mission? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1070 Registered: 6-2001 |
Is he minister in the north? east? south? west? centre? of Europe? UK? France? Germany? Italy? the UK Is the other place in the north? east? south? west? centre? of Asia? China - the places themselves aren't very relevant, especially as it's not a true story, they just add colour Are the other people colleagues of him? yope working in his ministry? yope in other ministries? yope working in the same country? yope Is the trade or exchange between the two countries involved relevant? yes Did he go to Asia? yes on a mission? yes | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2026 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barratry? Treason? Taking bribes? | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 616 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did he get off on what could be considered a mere technicality? Is a specific law relevant that is in place in the UK? In China? Or not in place in either of these countries? | ||
| Christine (Christine)
New member Username: Christine Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 |
Was the crime against the UK? Against China? Was one of the three a spy/imposter? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1073 Registered: 6-2001 |
arratry? Treason? Taking bribes? YES! Did he get off on what could be considered a mere technicality? give the man a break he was perfectly innocent! :-) Is a specific law relevant that is in place in the UK? well... yes, see above In China? Or not in place in either of these countries? Was the crime against the UK? Against China? see above Was one of the three a spy/imposter? no | ||
| Christine (Christine)
New member Username: Christine Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2007 |
So, we have figured out that the Minister of Commerce in the UK was framed for the crime of taking bribes - correct? Was the guilty government official the person framing him? Was more than one person framing him? Was the person framing him an official from China? From the UK? Is the motive for framing the innocent man only to cover up the tracks of the person who was guilty? Or is there another motive, such as trying to usurp the minister's position? Is the way in which the minister's name was cleared relevant? Is the way in which he was framed relevant? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 601 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is there any company involved? a British ? a Chinese? of a branch to be found out? Is the Chinese ministry of commerce involved? So one (two?) of the people involved is his colleague? working in his ministry? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1075 Registered: 6-2001 |
So, we have figured out that the Minister of Commerce in the UK was framed for the crime of taking bribes - correct? yes Was the guilty government official the person framing him? yes Was more than one person framing him? yes Was the person framing him an official from China? From the UK? yes to both Is the motive for framing the innocent man only to cover up the tracks of the person who was guilty? yes-ish Or is there another motive, such as trying to usurp the minister's position? no Is the way in which the minister's name was cleared relevant? no Is the way in which he was framed relevant? yes Is there any company involved? a British ? a Chinese? of a branch to be found out? no to all Is the Chinese ministry of commerce involved? yes So one (two?) yes, one of the people involved is his colleague? yes working in his ministry? yope | ||
| Christine (Christine)
New member Username: Christine Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2007 |
The other British government official was taking bribes from the Chinese government official, and to cover it up, they framed the British minister of commerce? Did they plant false information? Documents? Publicly blame him? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1076 Registered: 6-2001 |
The other British government official was taking bribes from the Chinese government official, and to cover it up, they framed the British minister of commerce? no Did they plant false information? yes-ish Documents? no Publicly blame him? no | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 608 Registered: 8-2006 |
The one who gave the bribes was Chinese? British? working for the government? The one who took the bribes was Chinese? British? working for the government? What was given in turn for the bribes: information? phony government decisions? silence in some issue? a criminal action? Is it relevant what the British Minister did in China? he talked to his counterpart? to other members of the Chinese government? to people from another entity? he visited something relevant? he provided relevant information? he obtained relevant information? Where the bribes in the first place offered to this British Minister? and he refused? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1077 Registered: 6-2001 |
The one who gave the bribes was Chinese? yes British? no working for the government? yes The one who took the bribes was Chinese? yes British? no working for the government? no What was given in turn for the bribes: information? phony government decisions? this silence in some issue? a criminal action? Is it relevant what the British Minister did in China? yes he talked to his counterpart? yes to other members of the Chinese government? no to people from another entity? no he visited something relevant? no he provided relevant information? no he obtained relevant information? no Where the bribes in the first place offered to this British Minister? yes and he refused? no there is an FA through a lot of these questions, which is pretty much the crux of the puzzle... you'll have to explore | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2032 Registered: 2-2001 |
The three featured players are the minister, the bribe-giver and the bribe-taker? And both bribe-giver and bribe-taker were Chinese? Was the Chinese minister the bribe-giver? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1078 Registered: 6-2001 |
The three featured players are the minister, the bribe-giver and the bribe-taker? no And both bribe-giver and bribe-taker were Chinese? yes Was the Chinese minister the bribe-giver? yes | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2034 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorry - three other people - one bribe-giver, one bribe-taker and a third person? Was the bribe-giver trying to frame the minister? The bribe-taker? Mystery person three? Was the third person also Chinese? British? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1079 Registered: 6-2001 |
Sorry - three other people - one bribe-giver, one bribe-taker and a third person? yes-ish Was the bribe-giver trying to frame the minister? no The bribe-taker? yes Mystery person three? yes Was the third person also Chinese? yes British? no | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2039 Registered: 2-2001 |
Was the evidence in the nature of a recording of some kind? If so, video? Audio? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 615 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is your puzzle statement made by a neutral observer not participating in the action? Is the British Minister guilty in something else than taking bribes? Is the bribe-giver human? a single person? Is the bribe-taker human? a single person? Were the bribes money? valuables? any objects? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1080 Registered: 6-2001 |
Was the evidence in the nature of a recording of some kind? If so, video? Audio? no to all Is your puzzle statement made by a neutral observer not participating in the action? yes - me :0) Is the British Minister guilty in something else than taking bribes? no Is the bribe-giver human? yes a single person? yes-ish Is the bribe-taker human? yes a single person? no-ish Were the bribes money? yes valuables? any objects? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 625 Registered: 8-2006 |
Did anyone pay any bribes at all? or was the bribery canceled? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1086 Registered: 6-2001 |
Did anyone pay any bribes at all? yes or was the bribery canceled? no | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2047 Registered: 2-2001 |
Did the bribe-giver think he was bribing the British minister? Did BG even know he was paying a bribe? Was the bribe given at a time when the BM (hmmm...perhaps not the most fortunate of initials...) was in China? Relevant why the BM was in China? Relevant why the bribe was being given? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1090 Registered: 6-2001 |
Did the bribe-giver think he was bribing the British minister? yes Did BG even know he was paying a bribe? yes Was the bribe given at a time when the BM (hmmm...perhaps not the most fortunate of initials...) was in China? yes Relevant why the BM was in China? yes Relevant why the bribe was being given? yes | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2048 Registered: 2-2001 |
So Bribe Taker was impersonating the BM? Had the as-yet-unidentified third party set it up? BG was supposed to gain something, presumably - for him personally? For his country? Was the BM in China to negotiate some kind of trade agreement? Favo(u)red Nation status? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1091 Registered: 6-2001 |
So Bribe Taker was impersonating the BM? no Had the as-yet-unidentified third party set it up? yes-ish BG was supposed to gain something, presumably - for him personally? no For his country? yes Was the BM in China to negotiate some kind of trade agreement? Favo(u)red Nation status? yes - and this is what the bribe was intended to secure | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 664 Registered: 8-2006 |
So the Chinese Minister of Commerce wanted the favoured nation status of Britain for his country? He planned to bribe the British Minister? He met him in China? Did he speak frankly of the fact: that he wanted the favoured nation status? that he was ready to pay money? that he was ready to do something illegal? Or did he speak of this in a vague way? Was there a second meeting after? Was there a relevant phone call? another relevant form of communication? Was the British Minister accompanied by anyone relevant? Are there still relevant jobs to be found out? is there any interpreter or intermediary relevant? Is it relevant for what the bribe money could have been used? Did anyone want the British Minister to be convicted? Is there still a false assumption? or was it the fact that the Chinese Minister thought he bribed his counterpart? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1093 Registered: 6-2001 |
So the Chinese Minister of Commerce wanted the favoured nation status of Britain for his country? yes He planned to bribe the British Minister? yes He met him in China? yes Did he speak frankly of the fact: that he wanted the favoured nation status? yes that he was ready to pay money? yes that he was ready to do something illegal? yes Or did he speak of this in a vague way? no Was there a second meeting after? no Was there a relevant phone call? no another relevant form of communication? yes-ish, but be careful Was the British Minister accompanied by anyone relevant? yes Are there still relevant jobs to be found out? yes is there any interpreter or intermediary relevant? YES Is it relevant for what the bribe money could have been used? no Did anyone want the British Minister to be convicted? yes Is there still a false assumption? no or was it the fact that the Chinese Minister thought he bribed his counterpart? no | ||
| Bodo (Bodo)
New member Username: Bodo Post Number: 2052 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jinkies, I believe Mr. Tobias has hit upon a significant thingie there... Did the interpreter translate accurately between them? Did he make the BG think that the BM was going to take the bribe, but explained something completely different to the BM, and then arranged for his accomplice to get the money "on behalf" of the BM? Something like? Not even close? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1094 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jinkies, I believe Mr. Tobias has hit upon a significant thingie there... Did the interpreter translate accurately between them? no Did he make the BG think that the BM was going to take the bribe, but explained something completely different to the BM, and then arranged for his accomplice to get the money "on behalf" of the BM? something very like Not even close? very close, there's just one more thing - identifying who exactly the two relevant non-BM and non-BG people are should sort it out | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 673 Registered: 8-2006 |
So there are two people apart from the BM and the BG, right? One is interpreter? freelance? Chinese? bribe taker? criminal? The other one is interpreter too? freelance? employee of the government? Chinese? British? also bribe taker? bribe giver? criminal? was he present at the meeting? did he meet the BM? the BG? the interpreter? is his job relevant? | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1095 Registered: 6-2001 |
So there are two people apart from the BM and the BG, right? One is interpreter? yes freelance? Chinese? yes bribe taker? yes criminal? The other one is interpreter too? yes freelance? employee of the government? Chinese? British? yes also bribe taker? yes bribe giver? criminal? was he present at the meeting? did he meet the BM? the BG? the interpreter? is his job relevant? so does someone want to put it all together? Or shall I $poil? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 680 Registered: 8-2006 |
Ok, it was a Chinese-British pact between the interpreters. I think that Bodo and I both know the story now but you, Bentarm, are in the best position to $poil as you made up the story. Nice puzzle. | ||
| Bentarm (Bentarm)
New member Username: Bentarm Post Number: 1096 Registered: 6-2001 |
***** SPOILER ***** The evidence against the minister seemed overwhelming. The miniser had agreed favoured nation status for China after a closed doors visit to the country. There was a Chinese insider from the meeting who was willing to testify that he'd seen the minister agree to take a bribe, there was a payment of the bribe amount to an anonymous Swiss bank account shortly after the meeting, but the minister was perfectly innocent. The guilty parties were the two interpreters - between them they contrived to convince the minister that he should accept favoured nation status, and convince the Chinese minister that he was willing to accept a bribe - not a bad day's work for an interpreter! |
