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Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 742
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Butch knew they were wrong and he could prove it
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 166
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Butch: Alien? Child? Female?

--wait...

H?A?M?

Is Butch in the field of education? his job relevant to him being able to prove something?

Butch = he?

Is the "they" that could be proven wrong a small group of people? 1-20? 21-50? 51-100? millions?

As part of the story with this lateral, did he already prove it to them? Or is he about to?

The title, "watch this", makes it sound like a magic trick, is it?

is this a true story?

were they wrong about something specific? something related to science? pop culture? politics?

Is Butch "older" than "they"?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 743
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Visconti:

Butch: Alien? Child? Female? no to all

--wait...

H?A?M? yes

Is Butch in the field of education? no his job relevant to him being able to prove something? no

Butch = he? yes

Is the "they" that could be proven wrong a small group of people? yes 1-20? let's say this one 21-50? 51-100? millions?

As part of the story with this lateral, did he already prove it to them? yesish, he has proved it, they may not know Or is he about to? no

The title, "watch this", makes it sound like a magic trick, is it? no

is this a true story? yes

were they wrong about something specific? yes something related to science? yes pop culture? politics? not these

Is Butch "older" than "they"? yope, but not relevant
Visconti (Visconti)
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Post Number: 168
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Butch demostrating something with the "they"? to prove them wrong, does he do something that they see? You said they may not know... who has he proven this to? himself? someone else?

is he a scientist?

is this a newsworthy story? is the result of what he proved now a common object, like the artificial heart or velcro or something?

relevant when it happened? within last year? 2-5 years ago? more than 5 years ago?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 744
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Visconti:

is Butch demostrating something with the "they"? no to prove them wrong, yes does he do something that they see? no You said they may not know... who has he proven this to? yope himself? no someone else? yes

is he a scientist? no

is this a newsworthy story? yesish is the result of what he proved now a common object, like the artificial heart or velcro or something? no

relevant when it happened? yes within last year? yes 2-5 years ago? more than 5 years ago?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 706
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this related to one of the following fields: mathematics? physics? chemistry? biology? medicine? engineering? humanities?
Are any objects involved?
Are they friends of Butch? family members?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 745
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is this related to one of the following fields: mathematics? physics? chemistry? biology? medicine? this is related indirectly engineering? some of this too humanities? there is another field too...keep exploring if you like
Are any objects involved? yes
Are they friends of Butch? yes family members? could be
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 968
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cosmetic surgery relevant?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 707
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many objects are to be found out: 1? 2? ...
Are they made of: metal? wood? paper? cardboard? glass? stone? concrete? tissue? organic material? plastic? rubber?
Did Butch use the objects? the others?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 746
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixtyeight:

cosmetic surgery relevant? no

Tobasi:

How many objects are to be found out: 1? this one 2? ...
Are they made of: metal? this wood? this too paper? cardboard? glass? stone? concrete? tissue? organic material? none of these plastic? might be some of this rubber? don't think this one is used
Did Butch use the objects? the one, yes the others? no
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 709
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the object require electricity?
Was it invented more than 10? 20? 50? 100? 200? 500? 1000? 2000? 5000? years ago?
Is it longer than 1 cm? 2 cm? 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m? 2 m? 5 m? 10 m? 20 m? 50 m?
Can it be found in a usual household? or rather outside?
Does anyone use it? people of specific interests? of a specific profession?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 747
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Does the object require electricity? no
Was it invented more than 10? 20? 50? 100? 200? a little less than this one 500? 1000? 2000? 5000? years ago?
Is it longer than 1 cm? 2 cm? 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m? right around here 2 m? 5 m? 10 m? 20 m? 50 m?
Can it be found in a usual household? sometimes or rather outside? unwise
Does anyone use it? anyone can, some do people of specific interests? yes of a specific profession? that too, but not only them
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 710
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Butch prove something using the object? something about the object?
Did the others see the object?
Is there a specific profession linked to the object?
Does the object have a specific colour? a specific shape? does it produce a sound? does it smell?
Is the object used in everyday life? for leisure activities? for professional activities?
Do you have to learn to use the object?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 748
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Did Butch prove something using the object? yes
something about the object? yesish...maybe rephrase
Did the others see the object? yes
Is there a specific profession linked to the object? no
Does the object have a specific colour? no..there are normal colors, but I suppose could be any color a specific shape? yes does it produce a sound? yes does it smell? not overtly, but yes
Is the object used in everyday life? not usually for leisure activities? yes for professional activities? yes
Do you have to learn to use the object? yes
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 712
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object a musical instrument?
Is the object related to: music? arts? sports? games?
Is the main purpose of the object to produce a sound? or was the sound only a secondary effect?
Did the others listen to the object?
Did Butch learn to use the object? for seconds? minutes? hours? days? months? years?
Did the others realise that they were wrong? at the moment he used the object?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 749
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the object a musical instrument? no
Is the object related to: music? arts? sports? yes games?
Is the main purpose of the object to produce a sound? no or was the sound only a secondary effect? yes
Did the others listen to the object? yes
Did Butch learn to use the object? probably for seconds? minutes? hours? days? months? years? could be any of these...most likely on-going
Did the others realise that they were wrong? no at the moment he used the object? no
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 713
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object used to practice a sport? for a particular sport?
A team sport? an olympic sport? a sport played inside? in a gymnasium?
Is it a racket? a bat? a cue? a ball?
Do you hold the object in one hand? both hands? throw it? sit on it?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 750
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the object used to practice a sport? yes for a particular sport? yes
A team sport? an olympic sport? a sport played inside? in a gymnasium? No to all
Is it a racket? a bat? a cue? a ball? No to all
Do you hold the object in one hand? both hands? this one throw it? sit on it? No to both
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 714
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the sport done all over the world? in certain regions? in only one country?
Is it performed outside?
To perform the sport do you move the object? by moving your hand? your hand? your whole body (by walking? running? driving?)?
Is the sound the object produces relevant?
Is it a sport performed alone? does it involve a vehicle? an animal?
Are there competitions for this sport? Can you play it one against another?
Can you be good or bad at this sport? Can this be measured? by taking the time? measuring the length? counting points?
Did Butch prove anything about the sport?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 751
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the sport done all over the world? in many places, yes in certain regions? in only one country? no to these
Is it performed outside? yes
To perform the sport do you move the object? a little yes
by moving your hand? yes
your hand? your whole body (by walking? running? driving?)? not these
Is the sound the object produces relevant? no
Is it a sport performed alone? usually
does it involve a vehicle? no an animal? no

Are there competitions for this sport? yes
Can you play it one against another? yes
Can you be good or bad at this sport? yes
Can this be measured? yes
by taking the time? usually not
measuring the length? no
counting points? yes
Did Butch prove anything about the sport? no, his efforts do not relate to the sporting involved with the item
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 715
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

While performing this sport do you lie? sit? stand?
Is this sport exhausting for any part of the body? for the hands? the brain?
Is it done on water? in the air? on land? in the forest? in the mountains? on grass? on a field?
Is it a combat sport? an intellectual sport?
So in general the object is used for a particular sport but Butch used it for something else i.e. to prove something?
The object is about one meter long, how wide is it: 1 cm? 2 cm? 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m?
and how thick: 1 cm? 2 cm? 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m?
Has it approximately the shape of a box? sphere? cylinder? pyramid?

If I still have no clue I will look for the Wikipedia list of sports next time...
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 754
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

While performing this sport do you lie? sit? stand? usually this one
Is this sport exhausting for any part of the body? for the hands? the brain? usually not
Is it done on water? no in the air? no on land? yes in the forest? can be in the mountains? can be on grass? yes on a field? yes
Is it a combat sport? no an intellectual sport? yes
So in general the object is used for a particular sport can be but Butch used it for something else yes i.e. to prove something? yes
The object is about one meter long, how wide is it: 1 cm? 2 cm? somewhere between these two 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m?
and how thick: 1 cm? 2 cm? 5 cm? 10 cm? 20 cm? 50 cm? 1 m? varies between 3 and about 10
Has it approximately the shape of a box? sphere? cylinder? about half of it is like this pyramid?

If I still have no clue I will look for the Wikipedia list of sports next time...
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 716
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object a rifle? another weapon?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 755
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the object a rifle? of sorts...explore another weapon? rifle is very close
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 717
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Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the field of application of the weapon relevant? sports? hunting? military? other?
Is the caliber relevant?
Is anything about the machinery of the weapon relevant? Is the bullet relevant?
Did Butch shoot? If so how often? 1? 2? ... times? Is the target relevant? an object? an animal? a man? Did he hit the target?
Did he proof anything about the weapon? the shooter? the bullet? the target? the impact? the bang of the shoot?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 756
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Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the field of application of the weapon relevant? not particularly sports? hunting? military? other?
Is the caliber relevant? no...not sure they measure it in calibur so much as guage
Is anything about the machinery of the weapon relevant? Is the bullet relevant? no to these
Did Butch shoot? yes If so how often? 1? this one 2? ... times? Is the target relevant? YES an object? an animal? a man? this one Did he hit the target? yes
Did he proof anything about the weapon? indirectly the shooter? yes the bullet? the target? the impact? the bang of the shoot?no to the rest
Well done! Almost there!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 718
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Butch kill the man? was it murder? was it an accident?
Did he shoot to prove that he could (or could not?) kill someone? that it was possible (or impossible?) to kill with this weapon?
Is the man hit by the bullet Butch himself? a friend? family member? colleague? stranger? of Butch? is he part of "they"? Has anything more to be found out about this man?
Did "they" see Butch shooting? Has anything more to be found out about "they"?
Was there any prosecution? any trial?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 758
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Did Butch kill the man? yes was it murder? no was it an accident? yes
Did he shoot to prove that he could this one (or could not?) kill someone? yesish that it was possible (or impossible?) to kill with this weapon? yesish
Is the man hit by the bullet Butch himself? this one a friend? family member? colleague? stranger? of Butch? is he part of "they"? Has anything more to be found out about this man? since it is Butch, yes
Did "they" see Butch shooting? no Has anything more to be found out about "they"? yes
Was there any prosecution? any trial? no to both
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 719
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where the bullet hit Butch? his brain? heart? other part of the chest?
Is there something relevant he did after the bullet hit him? did he die seconds? minutes? hours? days? after?
Was Butch planning to shoot at something else? not to shoot at all?
Did "they" learn what happened to Butch? did anyone see him doing this? was Butch found dead and the course of events was reconstructed? did he leave a testament?
Did Butch prove something intentionally? did communicate what he proved in any way? by a conversation? a written note?
Were "they" wrong in something about the personality of Butch? about the weapon? about killing in general? about death in general?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 759
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Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is it relevant where the bullet hit Butch? yes his brain? heart? other part of the chest? this area is the idea
Is there something relevant he did after the bullet hit him? die did he die seconds? yes minutes? hours? days? after?
Was Butch planning to shoot at something else? no not to shoot at all? yes
Did "they" learn what happened to Butch? possibly, not relevant did anyone see him doing this? yes was Butch found dead and the course of events was reconstructed? no did he leave a testament? no
Did Butch prove something intentionally? yes did communicate what he proved in any way? probably spoke it in advance to those watching....e.g. "Watch This" by a conversation? yes a written note? no
Were "they" wrong in something about the personality of Butch? no about the weapon? yesish about killing in general? no about death in general? no
Sparkplug1 (Sparkplug1)
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Post Number: 151
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they say that the gun wasn't loaded?

I don't know anything about guns,but did they say that the gun had blanks, thus could not kill anyone?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 760
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Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sparkplug1:

did they say that the gun wasn't loaded? no

I don't know anything about guns,but did they say that the gun had blanks, thus could not kill anyone? no, but explore
Sparkplug1 (Sparkplug1)
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Post Number: 154
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they say that the gun couldn't kill anyone?
couldn't hurt anyone?
couldn't hurt anyone seriously?
was fake?

did they say the gun couldn't hurt/kill butch specifically?

anything else relevant about the gun?

did they think something about the gun that wasn't true?
that was true?

had they done something to the gun?

had Butch done something to the gun?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 720
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more to be found out about the type of gun? about how it was loaded? about what happened to it before? after? the shot?
Is russian roulette relevant? any other game?
Could Butch have proved what he wanted to: without a gun? with another ordinary gun? without shooting? without killing? killing someone else?
Did "they" watch him shoot? part of "they"? other people? if so has more to be found out about the other people?
Did Butch pull the trigger? intentionally?
Did Butch hold the gun during the shot? did anyone else touch the gun? any other object?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 761
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sparkplug1:

did they say that the gun couldn't kill anyone? noish
couldn't hurt anyone? no
couldn't hurt anyone seriously? no
was fake? no

did they say the gun couldn't hurt/kill butch specifically? no

anything else relevant about the gun? yope

did they think something about the gun that wasn't true? yesish
that was true? no

had they done something to the gun? no

had Butch done something to the gun? no

Tobasi:

Is there more to be found out about the type of gun? not really...it was a shotgun about how it was loaded? about what happened to it before? after? the shot? this part is of interest
Is russian roulette relevant? any other game? no to both
Could Butch have proved what he wanted to: without a gun? no with another ordinary gun? of the same type, yes without shooting? yes without killing? yes killing someone else? yes
Did "they" watch him shoot? no part of "they"? other people? this one if so has more to be found out about the other people? no
Did Butch pull the trigger? yes intentionally? yes
Did Butch hold the gun during the shot? yes did anyone else touch the gun? no any other object? no
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 721
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Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Butch pulled the trigger did he think that this would cause a shot? that the shot would hit him? that he would die?
Did Butch know that the gun was working? was loaded? was loaded with real ammunition? that there was no protection (how do you call this?) preventing a shot?
Did the shot hit Butchs respiratory system? lung? blood circuit? aorta? relevant?
Did Butch point the gun barrel to his body? intentionally? did the barrel touch his body?
His death was a pure accident?
Could Butch have proved what he wanted to: by providing a simple glance at the gun? by providing an inspection of the gun?
So, something particular that happened to the gun before the shot has to be found out? did Butch do this? someone else?
Has there anything to be found out about the place where this happened? outside? in a building? in a vehicle?
Did this story really happen? did you take it from the news?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 762
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Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

When Butch pulled the trigger did he think that this would cause a shot? no that the shot would hit him? that he would die? no to both
Did Butch know that the gun was working? yes was loaded? no was loaded with real ammunition? no that there was no protection (how do you call this?) preventing a shot? no
Did the shot hit Butchs respiratory system? lung? blood circuit? aorta? relevant? no, just that it killed him
Did Butch point the gun barrel to his body? yes intentionally? yes did the barrel touch his body? yes
His death was a pure accident? yes
Could Butch have proved what he wanted to: by providing a simple glance at the gun? no by providing an inspection of the gun? no
So, something particular that happened to the gun before the shot has to be found out? you just determined the piece I was speaking of...has to do with how the gun was positioned before shot did Butch do this? someone else? see above
Has there anything to be found out about the place where this happened? no outside? yes in a building? no in a vehicle? no
Did this story really happen? yes did you take it from the news? yes
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 722
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Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has what he wanted to prove to do with the ammunition?
Did the people watching Butch know that the gun was loaded?
Is it relevant who gave Butch the gun? who charged it?
Was there a relevant conversion between Butch and "they" before?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Has what he wanted to prove to do with the ammunition? indirectly
Did the people watching Butch know that the gun was loaded? no
Is it relevant who gave Butch the gun? who charged it? no to both
Was there a relevant conversion between Butch and "they" before? no....well...a one-sided conversation I bet
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the gun had not been loaded would Butch have proved something?
Did Butch know before shooting that he would prove something?
Was the one-sided conversation from Butch to "they"? Was any information provided in this conversation? about Butch? about the gun?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

If the gun had not been loaded would Butch have proved something? yes
Did Butch know before shooting that he would prove something? yes
Was the one-sided conversation from Butch to "they"? yes Was any information provided in this conversation? yes about Butch? yesish about the gun? that too
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the information provided in the conversation: about Butchs personality? about his ability handling a gun? about the fact whether he had shot before? or killed before? about the presence of the gun? its exact position? about the fact whether the gun was loaded or not?
Could someone else have proved what Butch proved? by firing off a shoot with the gun?
Did Butch want to prove what he proved? did someone else want him to prove it? "they"? was this a test of courage? could Butch have proved this by pointing the gun at someone else? into the air?
Was the thing going on there "legal" or would the police have tried prevent it?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Is the information provided in the conversation: about Butchs personality? no about his ability handling a gun? yope about the fact whether he had shot before? no or killed before? no about the presence of the gun? no its exact position? yesish about the fact whether the gun was loaded or not? no
Could someone else have proved what Butch proved? yes by firing off a shoot with the gun? could be
Did Butch want to prove what he proved? yes did someone else want him to prove it? no "they"? no was this a test of courage? no could Butch have proved this by pointing the gun at someone else? possibly, but misleading into the air? no
Was the thing going on there "legal" no, but it would have been if the gun were not loaded...suicide is illegal or would the police have tried prevent it? see above
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any occupations relevant? Has anything still to be found out about the setting of the scene?
So to prove what he wanted to Butch had to:
point the gun at himself? at a vital part of his body? to pull the trigger? Could any of these actions have been replaced by another action?
Did he have to do anything else? to say anything? to move any part of his body in any way?
If someone else had proved what Butch wanted to prove would this someone have pointed the gun at Butch? at himself?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Are there any occupations relevant? yes Has anything still to be found out about the setting of the scene? no
So to prove what he wanted to Butch had to:
point the gun at himself? yes, and... at a vital part of his body? more or less to pull the trigger? yes Could any of these actions have been replaced by another action? no
Did he have to do anything else? no to say anything? no to move any part of his body in any way? no
If someone else had proved what Butch wanted to prove would this someone have pointed the gun at Butch? no at himself? yes
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant occupation(s):
Artistic? Musical?
Agriculture? Hunter? Fisherman?
Banking? Financial? Real estate?
Clerical? Administrative? Receptionist?
Computer related? Hardware? Information technology?
Construction? Craftsman?
Criminal? Jailbird?
Education? Academic Research?
Entertainment? Media?
Executive? Management?
Hospitality? Travel? Food Service?
Law enforcement? Police?
Legal Services?
Manufacturing? Distributions?
Medical? Health Services?
Politics? Government? Military?
Sales? Marketing? Tradesman?
Religion?
Retired person? Occupational disease?
Sports?
Student? Trainee?
Teaching? Child care?
Technical? Science? Engineering?
Transportation?
Unemployed?
Writer? Editor? Translator? Interpreter?
Other?
Has Butch this occupation? "they"? the people watching Butch?

quote:

So to prove what he wanted to Butch had to: point the gun at himself? yes, and...



Has anything more to be found out about the "and..."?
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he simply trying to prove that it is possible to commit suicide with a shotgun?
like, maybe he's some kind of crime scene investigator, and he's trying to prove that is could be a suicide. others think that it would be impossible to position a shotgun to kill one's self and be able to pull the trigger, so Butch acts it out to prove it's possible and accidently kills himself. is this close at all?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

The relevant occupation(s):
Artistic? somewhat Musical? no
Agriculture? Hunter? Fisherman?
Banking? Financial? Real estate?
Clerical? Administrative? Receptionist?
Computer related? Hardware? Information technology?
Construction? Craftsman?
Criminal? Jailbird?
Education? Academic Research?
Entertainment? yes
Media? yes
Executive? Management?
Hospitality? Travel? Food Service?
Law enforcement? yope
Police? yope
Legal Services?
Manufacturing? Distributions?
Medical? Health Services?
Politics? Government? Military?
Sales? Marketing? Tradesman?
Religion?
Retired person? Occupational disease?
Sports?
Student? Trainee?
Teaching? Child care?
Technical? Science? Engineering?
Transportation?
Unemployed?
Writer? yes Editor? Translator? Interpreter?
Other? certainly
Has Butch this occupation? no "they"? yes the people watching Butch? no

Beccaann:

was he simply trying to prove that it is possible to commit suicide with a shotgun? in this way, yes
like, maybe he's some kind of crime scene investigator, precisely and he's trying to prove that is could be a suicide. yes others think that it would be impossible to position a shotgun to kill one's self and be able to pull the trigger, yes, but who? so Butch acts it out to prove it's possible and accidently kills himself. is this close at all? very close...all you need to know is who are "they"??
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they the police?
the family/friends of the crime scene victim?
other CSIs?
the jury at the trial of the supposed murderer?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beccaann:

are they the police? yope
the family/friends of the crime scene victim? no
other CSIs? yope
the jury at the trial of the supposed murderer? no, FA...no murder here
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so is this a group of people some of whom are police, some of whom are CSI's? And possibly some of whom are neither?

Of is the yope because they are not specifically police of CSIs?

are they all present when Butch shoots himself?

are any of them reporters?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beccaann:

so is this a group of people some of whom are police, some of whom are CSI's? And possibly some of whom are neither? no

Of is the yope because they are not specifically police of CSIs? Yope is because they are, but they are not

are they all present when Butch shoots himself? no, "they" are not present at all, only Butch's friends are

are any of them reporters? no
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do "they" want to make a film (meaning they are actors? directors? scriptwriters? technicians? specialists for murder? etc.?)?
If not, are they interested in reproducing a suicide? to produce some piece of entertainment? education?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Do "they" want to make a film not exactly this, but explore (meaning they are actors? directors? scriptwriters? this one technicians? specialists for murder? etc.?)?
If not, are they interested in reproducing a suicide? among other such similar things to produce some piece of entertainment? yes education? not really

you are very close, I am willing to $poyl if you are done
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they want to write a play? a book? a story?
And does Butch test whether what they are writing is realistic?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

Do they want to write a play? a book? a story? this one, but its not about wanting to
And does Butch test whether what they are writing is realistic? yes, but there is a tense issue here...the story is already written
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, there is an existing story?
Who read it or heard about it: Butch? "they"? the people watching Butch?
Was this a test whether the story is realistic (ex post)?
If this is "not about wanting to" was anyone forced to do something? Butch? "they"? the people watching Butch?
Forced by: Butch? "they"? the people watching Butch?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi:

OK, there is an existing story? yes
Who read it or heard about it: Butch? did not read or hear about it, saw it "they"? no, stay with me, they wrote it the people watching Butch? no
Was this a test whether the story is realistic (ex post)? not a test, a proof
If this is "not about wanting to" was anyone forced to do something? Butch? "they"? the people watching Butch? no, FA here
Forced by: Butch? "they"? the people watching Butch? see above
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so "they" wrote a story, and as part of this story they assert that it is impossible to kill oneself in a particular manner with a shotgun?
Or did someone else already write the story and "they" are researching it or adapting it somehow?

Anyway, somehow they assert that this method of death is impossible, and Butch, being a crime scene investigator knows that it is indeed possible. So Butch decides to prove to his friends that it is possible and kills himself in the process.

Is all of this correct?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beccaann:

Ok, so "they" wrote a story, and as part of this story they assert that it is impossible to kill oneself in a particular manner with a shotgun? yes
Or did someone else already write the story and "they" are researching it or adapting it somehow? no

Anyway, somehow they assert that this method of death is impossible, and Butch, yes being a crime scene investigator no...it is "they" that are yope CSIs knows that it is indeed possible. yes So Butch decides to prove to his friends that it is possible and kills himself in the process. yes

Is all of this correct? see above
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


quote:

was he simply trying to prove that it is possible to commit suicide with a shotgun? in this way, yes
like, maybe he's some kind of crime scene investigator, precisely and he's trying to prove that is could be a suicide. yes




This is what had me believe that Butch was the CSI.


So what is left to find out exactly?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beccaann:

This is what had me believe that Butch was the CSI. I see. My mistake then. Sorry to mislead. I misread that bit.


So what is left to find out exactly? who are "they" exactly?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I offered to spoyl before...I think we have this done essentially. Spoyler to follow
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

********** SPOILER ********

A Provo man fatally shot himself with a shotgun while trying to disprove a popular TV crime show, according to authorities.

Earl F. Ellwanger Jr., 55, accidentally shot himself in the stomach about 7 p.m. Tuesday and died of his wounds Thursday at Rapid City Regional Hospital.

Ellwanger saw a television episode of "CSI" in which investigators were trying to show that a woman couldn't have shot herself in the stomach, according to Fall River County Sheriff Jeff Tarrell.

"He decided to show that the program was incorrect and didn't realize the shotgun was loaded," Tarrell said.

Family members were present at Ellwanger's home in Provo when the accident occurred, the sheriff said.

Ellwanger was taken by ambulance to Minnekahta Junction where the ambulance was met by a Black Hills Life Flight aircraft, which flew him to Regional Hospital.

The Fall River County Sheriff's Office and Edgemont ambulance service responded.


Thanks so much for that hard work all. You really hung in there Tobasi! Good job!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you Wildcard for a nice puzzle. Indeed, most of the time I am rather persistent in solving puzzles. Thanks Beccaann for joining and bringing in new ideas. Until next time.

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