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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 51
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An English civilian dies in England, but is buried in Spain with full military honors. Because of this, thousands of lives are saved. Explain.
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 7:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this really happen?
Is it relevant when it happened? As in historical era? Date within the year? Time of day?
Those saved...
Did they all live in the same geographical area?
Were they all of the same nationality?
Was a war avoided?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1032
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 10:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a war story? WWI? WWII? Spanish Civil War?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this really happen? Yes
Is it relevant when it happened? Yes As in historical era? Yes Date within the year? Yes Time of day? No
Those saved...
Did they all live in the same geographical area? No
Were they all of the same nationality? No
Was a war avoided? No

Is this a war story? Yes WWI? No WWII? Yes Spanish Civil War? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1035
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Civilian : H ? A? M?

Was he a soldier or involved in the military?

Had he requested to be buried in Spain? Did his family or the military arrange his funeral? Is the cause of his death relevant? Was he killed in action?

Was the life saving benefit foreseen? and is this why he was buried there?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 284
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he well known?

Is any mistake involved? Was he mistaken for another person? Would thousands of people have died if he had not died? If he had not been buried in Spain? If he had been buried in England? In a third country?
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Post Number: 197
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he born in Spain, but lived in England?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1475
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the civilian a different identity from that of the person who most thought was buried (if you get what I mean)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 56
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Civilian : H ? A? M? All three

Was he a soldier or involved in the military? No

Had he requested to be buried in Spain? No Did his family or the military arrange his funeral? No Is the cause of his death relevant? Yes Was he killed in action? No

Was the life saving benefit foreseen? Yes and is this why he was buried there? Yes

Is he well known? No

Is any mistake involved? Yes Was he mistaken for another person? Yes Would thousands of people have died if he had not died? Yes If he had not been buried in Spain? Yes If he had been buried in England? Yes In a third country? Yes

Note: If I wanted to split hairs, I could answer the last four questions with "possibly."


Was he born in Spain, but lived in England? No

Was the civilian a different identity from that of the person who most thought was buried (if you get what I mean)? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1039
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How long after his death was he buried within days? a week? a month? longer? Was his dead body displayed publicly in some way? Was his funeral witnessed by many people? if so more than 100? 1000? 100000? 1 Million?

Did his burial lead to a cessation of fighting? Did he resemble someone famous? Was he himself famous? Is the nationality of the lives saved all the same or is it people of many different nations?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 59
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How long after his death was he buried within days? a week? a month? longer? Several weeks or months, but irrelevant Was his dead body displayed publicly in some way? No Was his funeral witnessed by many people? No if so more than 100? 1000? 100000? 1 Million?

Did his burial lead to a cessation of fighting? No Did he resemble someone famous? No Was he himself famous? No Is the nationality of the lives saved all the same or is it people of many different nations? three or four nations, exact number irrelevant
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 60
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Edit: The exact time between his death and burial is unknown; accounts differ. It was between several weeks and several months -- the EXACT length of time is irrelevant. I didn't mean to say that the length of time didn't matter at ALL; it could not have happened in less time than two weeks or more time than about six months, and that is relevant.
Grainbeer (Grainbeer)
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Username: Grainbeer

Post Number: 313
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a spy? Or mistaken for a spy? A politician, or mistaken for a politician? Ditto for:

Editor
Journalist
Tycoon
Prominent religious person
Criminal
Scientist

Was he aware that his own death might have great implications?

Did he die because of a violent action? Did he die from natural causes, like disease or age?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 68
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a spy? Or mistaken for a spy? A politician, or mistaken for a politician? Ditto for:

Editor
Journalist
Tycoon
Prominent religious person
Criminal
Scientist

He was not mistaken for any of the above. What he really was is irrelevant.

Was he aware that his own death might have great implications? no

Did he die because of a violent action? no Did he die from natural causes, like disease or age? yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1048
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his dead body used in some way by the authorities/military?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his dead body used in some way by the authorities/military? yes
Woubit (Woubit)
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Username: Woubit

Post Number: 235
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 3:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with Gibraltar?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 70
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with Gibraltar? Good thought, but no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When they were using the body were they pretending that he was still alive?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When they were using the body were they pretending that he was still alive? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there use of the body intended to fool the enemy in some way? or to fool the public?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BY THERE I MEANT THEIR OF COURSE
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 72
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there use of the body intended to fool the enemy in some way? yes or to fool the public? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he put in a sentry post while he was dead to make it look like there was a guard in place? Or any other sort of decoy?

Was he buried in uniform even though he wasn't a soldier?

Was his corpse placed behind enemy lines in order to gain some advantage?

When he was buried did the military pretend that he had been a soldier?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 76
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he put in a sentry post while he was dead to make it look like there was a guard in place? No Or any other sort of decoy? Yes

Was he buried in uniform even though he wasn't a soldier? Yes

Was his corpse placed behind enemy lines in order to gain some advantage? Yope

When he was buried did the military pretend that he had been a soldier? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1060
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his body left behind enemy lines? Were the enemy supposed to think he was a spy?

Was this done to protect battle plans? strategies? Are the D-Day landings relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 79
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his body left behind enemy lines? yope Were the enemy supposed to think he was a spy? no

Was this done to protect battle plans? yes strategies? no Are the D-Day landings relevant? no
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Username: Blazingphoenix

Post Number: 204
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they bury a civilian as one of their commanders that the enemy was trying to kill? So that the enemy would go "Yay, we won" and call off their attack?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his body discovered by the enemy? Did this convince them that a certain action was going to occur that didn't? Did the body have false intelligence on it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 80
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they bury a civilian as one of their commanders that the enemy was trying to kill? no So that the enemy would go "Yay, we won" and call off their attack? no

Was his body discovered by the enemy? yope Did this convince them that a certain action was going to occur that didn't? yes Did the body have false intelligence on it? yes

Spoiler

Operation Mincemeat was a decoy plan carried out several months before the Allied invasion of Sicily. A corpse, dressed as a British intelligence officer, was left by a submarine to drift onto a Spanish beach. The Spanish, sympathizing with the Germans, allowed them to copy what appeared to be vital information, before burying the corpse and informing the British. The man had died of pneumonia, so appeared to have drowned after a plane crash, and he had been frozen so that he appeared only to be dead a few days. Ironically, there really was a plane crash about this time, which only improved the deception.

The information led the Germans to believe that the Allies would assault Greece and Sardinia rather than the most obvious target, Sicily. The body had copious evidence to make it look authentic -- including ticket stubs, bills, ID, letters, and photographs from a nonexistent father and fiance -- and the Germans fell for it hook, line and sinker. They actually removed units FROM Sicily and sent them to Greece, and also withdrew two full armored divisions from Russia on the eve of an important battle. And when the Allies hit Sicily, Hitler continued to believe it was a feint until too late.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1483
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It rings a bell. I seem to recall watching an old British film/movie about this.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 2:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Man Who Never Was, based on an excellent book of the same name. It was written by the officer who helmed the operation.

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