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Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is the first of a series of experimental new puzzletypes. If they're successful more like them will appear in the forum, if not each will be the first and last of its kind.

I will be sticking to the same format for initialising these puzzles (and if anyone else would like to post an experimental I would urge them to do the same). Firstly, the title is in the form:

[Username] Suggested_name_for_puzzletype (experimental)

If the puzzle is successful the "suggested name for puzzletype" should appear in brackets following similar puzzles of its sort i.e. if the first rulebreaker were introduced in this way it would have appeared as:

[Username] Rulebreaker (experimental)

However, after the puzzle has concluded, if successful, alternative names for the puzzletype can be discussed and every forumer has an equal say in the naming process. (This discussion will also include the arguing of whether or not the puzzletype is original and whether or not it could be classified under one of the existing headers.)
Because the puzzletype name is not fixed until after the puzzle has concluded this should discourage from attempts to start new puzzles under the type until the experimental has concluded. However if you desperately would like to host a similar puzzle then you may post in the experimental before it concludes, asking the host and forumers to consider the puzzletype name early. The host may not object to this discussion (that would suggest the host feels they have rights to the puzzletype, which I do not believe in) but other forumers may. If the discussion does take place mid-puzzle I suggest it be kept in italics as is the norm for any unrelated chat in running puzzles.

For the intial post I suggest also the following format:

Alternative puzzle title (optional, this allows the host to bypass the restrictions of the experimental title form if they chose)

Brief description of how the puzzletype works (may be divided into host and solver objectives and additional rules)

Any initalisation text i.e. puzzle statement, character inventory etc. (only required if the host feels the puzzle/ puzzletype requires it)

---

As this is an attempt at introducing a new forum standard, the experimental puzzletype is itself experimental. Therefore it also must be discussed at the conclusion of this puzzle.

---

The host has heard/read a question asked of themself and/or someone else (but not asked by the host). The solvers conclude the puzzle by asking the question themselves.

The host must accept the wording of the question if deemed 'close enough' i.e. could have been asked in place of the precisely stated question and have expected the same potential responses.
The puzzlers may distinguish between questions about
the question and attempts at guessing the question (if they do so this allows the host to answer attempts with words like 'no', 'noish', 'yope' and 'yesish' to indicate how close they are) however the host must conclude the puzzle if the question appears in any post no matter how it's intended and they may answer any undistinguished attempt as if it were actually being asked of them (this is how ambiguously asked questions should be treated).

I have my question for this puzzle. Good Luck!
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 340
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a W-H question?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 1340
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If this isn't the question, why not?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 85
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a W-H question? no


If this isn't the question, why not? no but nice question (:
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Username: Dlcygnet

Post Number: 1364
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the answer to your question 42? Is the answer to your question animal? vegetable? mineral? numeric? political? conceptual?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 348
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a yes-no question? Would the answer be a simple yes or no?

As far as you know, would I give the same answer as you?

Does the question concern this forum?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 93
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the answer to your question 42? no Is the answer to your question animal? vegetable? mineral? numeric? political? conceptual? no


Is it a yes-no question? yes Would the answer be a simple yes or no? yes (it would be yes or no)

As far as you know, would I give the same answer as you? couldn't say, probably not, if the question were rephased a particular way i would say with almost complete certainty no, but don't look into this - will probably cause more confusion than clarity (: ... let's say 'no'.

Does the question concern this forum? no
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 352
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the question involve any people? animals? vegetables? minerals? numbers? concepts?

Is it addressed to a person in particular? Was it addressed to you? Would it help if we could find out who put the question to whom?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 100
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the question involve any people? yes animals? yes vegetables? minerals? numbers? concepts? no to rest

Is it addressed to a person in particular? Was it addressed to you? yes Would it help if we could find out who put the question to whom? possibly
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 356
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people involved in the question... 1? 2? 3? more? Are you one of them?
Animals... 1? 2? 3? more? Mammal? Reptile? Bird? Fish? Quadruped? Biped?

Was the question put by a relative of yours? A friend? An acquaintance? A colleague? A stranger? Human? Adult? Male? Any of these relevant?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 115
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people involved in the question... 1? This 2? or this if you include the asker 3? more? Are you one of them? Yes
Animals... 1? This 2? 3? more? Mammal? This Reptile? Bird? Fish? Quadruped? and this Biped?

Was the question put by a relative of yours? This A friend? An acquaintance? A colleague? A stranger? Human? yes Adult? yes Male? yes Any of these relevant? Yes with respect to how I would answer. Noish, it will not help you discover the question.
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 366
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daddy, will you buy me a dog? Or a cat. How about this?

The purpose of the question: was the other person trying to obtain information (e.g. how many legs does a dog have?)? Was (s)he asking for permission? Was it a request?

Would it help to find out what animal is involved? Is it a pet? Dog? Cat? Cow? Sheep? Goat? Platypus?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 117
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daddy, will you buy me a dog? Or a cat. How about this? No. Just to clarify; the question was asked of me by another human adult male.

The purpose of the question: was the other person trying to obtain information (e.g. how many legs does a dog have?)? Was (s)he asking for permission? Was it a request? This one

Would it help to find out what animal is involved? yes Is it a pet? yes Dog? This one Cat? Cow? Sheep? Goat? Platypus?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 387
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the question formulated along the lines of "can X [verb] Y [preposition] Z?"? If so, is X you? Is Y? Is Z? Is the dog X? Y? Z?

Is the other person mentioned in the question?

Did the other person ask you for something? If so, something for himself? For the dog? Were you asked for the dog?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the question formulated along the lines of "can X [verb] Y [preposition] Z?"? Yes, this is not how it was phrased when it was asked of me but it could be phrased this way. If so, is X you? yes Is Y? Is Z? Is the dog X? Y? this one Z?

Is the other person mentioned in the question? Not in the way it was phrased when it was asked of me but they would be if it were phrased the way you've suggested.

Did the other person ask you for something? no If so, something for himself? For the dog? Were you asked for the dog?
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 391
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2008 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I assume that the other person would be Z, in my formulation. Is that right?

Is it something like "could you please walk the dog for me?"?

Did the other person ask you to do something? In this case, did you agree to do it?
How long did the action take? A few seconds? A few minutes? Half an hour? A couple of hours? More?
Did you do it alone? With the dog? With the other person?
Was the dog happy about this?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 135
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I assume that the other person would be Z, in my formulation. Is that right? Correct

Is it something like "could you please walk the dog for me?"? Yes

Did the other person ask you to do something? In this case, did you agree to do it?
How long did the action take? A few seconds? A few minutes? Half an hour? A couple of hours? More?
Did you do it alone? With the dog? With the other person?
Was the dog happy about this? All ignored. Although I like the question 'was the dog happy about this?' (:

****** $POILER ******

Question (as phrased to me): "Can you walk the dog?"

Okay, I kept it simple just to check for myself whether the puzzle formula would work (I didn't expect it to last long at all). I don't think I really needed to have done (I would actually have preferred it if the first puzzle of its kind was to be as difficult as the rest) but I couldn't recall a better question at the time of posting X)

I haven't SPOILed the puzzle properly as it has to stay open for the discussion by members whether or not they think it is a successful new puzzletype, whether or not they like the 'lateral question' tag for this puzzletype (and suggest possible alternatives), and then whether or not they like the experimental puzzletype and tag etc.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1241
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some feedback Liquizt:

My issue with this type of puzzle is that it falls more into the 20 questions type. Irrespective of how obscure the question/solution is I can't see when the situation would arise that would require a lateral leap as it were.

While i accept that Lateral type puzzles involve numerous questions to eliminate possibilities there is usually a point where someone either uncovers a false assumption or makes that leap and leaves everyone else kicking themselves.A good example would be some of the recent "What's the headline" puzzles.

I fear that puzzles of this type would generate into guessing games and speaking personally I wouldn't want that.

I think it could open the forum to all sorts of brian teasers ,word games and number puzzles and while these are fun we should never forget that this is a lateral puzzle forum.

I'd be very interested to see examples of your other experimental puzzles and would like to hear what others think of this.

Hope my feedback was constructive.
Liquizt (Liquizt)
New member
Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 161
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks - good feedback.

Originally I was going to limit it to only 'odd', original questions that i think would at some point require a lateral leap to solve... however I couldn't think of one at the time X) - In retrospect I feel it may have worked better if I waited until I'd actually got something proper together - as a result of not doing so I don't think I really tested this idea at all.

However I was eager to roll out the experimental puzzletype X) as I have a few ideas, some good, some bad, and want to see what looks like it would work and what doesn't...

I agree - I wouldn't want this forum to expand into puzzles that aren't lateral, not only would it not make sense for a lateral puzzle forum but if members were allowed to post other kinds of puzzle we might see a tragic decline in the much loved lateral puzzles (:

I'll try better to monitor my ideas beforehand and assess them for lateralness... would still like to hear the views of others.

I've got another experimental in the works that I think you'd like - not really new I don't think but if goes well and other members like it, establishing it as a seperate puzzletype might encourage more appearences...

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