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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They looked , he didn't, he died
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They - H? A? M? F?
He - H? A? M?
Was "he" one of "they"?
Did he not look at the same time as they looked?
Did they all look at the same thing?
If they hadn't looked would any? all? have died?
If he had looked, would he not have died?
Did he die by accident? murder? suicide? illness? old age?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is what they looked at a person? Place? Thing? Something alive? A combination of some of the above? More than one of whatever they were looking at?

Did what they looked at cause his death? Was his death violent? Sudden? Could "they" foresee his death? Did they know him? Were they present at the time of his death? Were they and he together at the time they looked at X?

If you said "saw" or "observed" in place of "looked," would it make a difference to the puzzle?

Are location, time period, age, gender, or anyone's profession or pastime/hobby relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sunshine

They - H? A? M? F? yes both male & female
He - H? A? M? yes
Was "he" one of "they"? no
Did he not look at the same time as they looked? he didn't look at all
Did they all look at the same thing? yes
If they hadn't looked would any? all? have died? no
If he had looked, would he not have died? possibly not
Did he die by accident? murder? suicide? illness? old age? none of these
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sunshine

They - H? A? M? F? yes both male & female
He - H? A? M? yes
Was "he" one of "they"? no
Did he not look at the same time as they looked? he didn't look at all
Did they all look at the same thing? yes
If they hadn't looked would any? all? have died? no
If he had looked, would he not have died? possibly not
Did he die by accident? murder? suicide? illness? old age? none of these
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is what they looked at a person? no Place? no Thing? this Something alive? no A combination of some of the above? More than one of whatever they were looking at? just one

Did what they looked at cause his death? no Was his death violent? yope Sudden? yope Could "they" foresee his death? noish Did they know him? at the time yes Were they present at the time of his death? some may have been but not all Were they and he together at the time they looked at X? yes

If you said "saw" or "observed" in place of "looked," would it make a difference to the puzzle? the puzzle wouldn't work

Are location, time period, age, gender, or anyone's profession or pastime/hobby relevant? someone's profession is relevant
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm. Was he executed? Did he die sometime after he was mortally hurt? If so, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, or years later? Was he killed by a person, or by nature? Is the manner of his death relevant? Did others die with him?

Is he different in some vital manner from the others who were with him, other than the fact that he failed to look? Could he have looked if the opportunity arose? Did he want to look? Was he blind? Is literacy relevant?

I'm going to call what they looked at "X." Was X relevant? Was X bigger than a breadbox? A person? A car? A house? Was X moveable? Had it been moved? Was it moved afterward? Had it once been alive?

Is anything criminal involved?

Insert LTPF list of professions here. (What does LTPF stand for, anyway?)
Is his profession relevant? Those of "Them?" Some of "Them?" One of "Them?" Someone else's?

Looked = looked closely, or just glanced at? Relevant?

Time of day relevant? If so, night or day?
Indoor or outdoor? Relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm. Was he executed? yes Did he die sometime after he was mortally hurt? If so, seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, or years later? Was he killed by a person, or by nature? Is the manner of his death relevant? yes Did others die with him? no to the rest

Is he different in some vital manner from the others who were with him, other than the fact that he failed to look? yope Could he have looked if the opportunity arose? yes Did he want to look? irr Was he blind? No Is literacy relevant? no

I'm going to call what they looked at "X." Was X relevant? yes Was X bigger than a breadbox? yes A person? if you mean bigger than a person then yes A car? no A house? no Was X moveable? yesish but be careful Had it been moved? no Was it moved afterward? the object in question does not move but a part of it does. you'll understand when you discover what it is Had it once been alive? no

Is anything criminal involved? yes

Insert LTPF list of professions here. (What does LTPF stand for, anyway?) LTPF = Lateral Thinking Puzzle Forum. The relevant profession is a lawyer
Is his profession relevant? no Those of "Them?" Some of "Them?" One of "Them?" Someone else's? this

Looked = looked closely, or just glanced at? Glanced Relevant? yesish

Time of day relevant? no but it happened during the dayIf so, night or day?
Indoor or outdoor? indoor Relevant? yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Era relevant? Was this in wartime? Were they spies?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Era relevant? Was this in wartime? Were they spies? no to all i'm afraid
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a clock?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a clock? nice thought but no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could he not see what he should have looked at? Was he in another room? Did someone or something get in his line of vision?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could he not see what he should have looked at? he could have seen it had he looked Was he in another room? no Did someone or something get in his line of vision? no

you might want to get the setting for this puzzle to help you along
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - so was he at home? At somebody else's home? In an office? A shop? A railway or coach station? Indoor car park? Church or other place of worship?

Was he in Europe? Asia? Australias? Americas? Arctic? Antartica?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he in an abbatoir? Was his execution by blade or gun? Mistaken for an animal? Did he deserve to be executed? Or was he in the wrong place at the wrong time? Could the others have been executed for the same reason if they'd done things differently?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - so was he at home? At somebody else's home? In an office? A shop? A railway or coach station? Indoor car park? Church or other place of worship? no to all

Was he in Europe? Asia? Australias? Americas? Arctic? Antartica? lets say he was in America but not really relevant. The exact nature of his location is relevant. Remember the relevant profession
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he in an abbatoir? no Was his execution by blade or gun? method of execution is irrelevant Mistaken for an animal? no Did he deserve to be executed? well i disagree with the death penalty but he was guilty of the crime he was accused of if that's what you mean Or was he in the wrong place at the wrong time? NOCould the others have been executed for the same reason if they'd done things differently? No the others are entirely innocent
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he in court? With a client?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he in court? yesWith a client? yes

ok to make this a bit easier Bob is the guy who dies and Jim is his lawyer
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Jim fails to defend him successfully? Had Bob killed somebody? Committed treason? Were the 'others' who lived connected with the crime? Were they victims of the crime?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they the jury?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Jim fails to defend him successfully? yes Had Bob killed somebody? yes he had Committed treason? Were the 'others' who lived connected with the crime? no Were they victims of the crime? no

Were they the jury? they were the jury and also the public gallery and quite probably the judge and clerk. Should mention that the prosecuting lawyer is relevant in this puzzle also

p.s. thanks for all the questions
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks for all the answers - I always like it when there is lots of to-ing and fro-ing

Was the looking by the innocent done in the court? Or was he guilty of his own crime because he didn't look at whatever time the looking happened? Would we, as innocent members of the public, have looked in this way in real life? Does this looking prevent us from falling into a life of crime? Or at least the crime that he was guilty of, murder most foul?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks for all the answers - I always like it when there is lots of to-ing and fro-ing agreed.. i too at a big fan of lateral tennis

Was the looking by the innocent done in the court? yes Or was he guilty of his own crime because he didn't look at whatever time the looking happened? well it helped secure hus conviction Would we, as innocent members of the public, have looked in this way in real life? almost certainly Does this looking prevent us from falling into a life of crime? no Or at least the crime that he was guilty of, murder most foul? and no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there an exhibit that he didn't look at? Did his averting his eyes make him look guilty?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there an exhibit that he didn't look at? no Did his averting his eyes make him look guilty? well he didn't avert his eyes as such. He just didn't look at something which nearly everybody else did. This did point to his guilt but it wasn't because of his facial expression or looking guilty
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thing that he didn't look at routinely in the court?
Were the family of the victim there? Relevant?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So something was looked at in the court itself, but this was not an exhibit? And this thing is bigger than a person?

Is it some sort of screening? A piece of film footage? A film taken by a witness? By the victim? Footage of a witness testimony? Did his defence rely on something that he disproved by not looking at the thing?

Did he claim to be visually impaired or something like this? Was he in fact blind or visually impaired? Was he deaf? Did he understand the instructions to look at the thing? Were there any such instructions?

Was the thing presented as part of the trial? Or was it something that appeared by chance in the courtroom?

Was the thing actually something rather macabre?

Did the thing have a measurable duration (as a film would have) or was it simply an object?

Did he refuse to look because he didn't want to incriminate himself? Did he simply not think to look? Did he know, in not looking, that he was going down? Was he under specific instructions not to look by his lawyer?

Was there an elephant in the room? Literally? Metaphorically?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I reckon I know this one. Did he know something they didn't?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne

Is the thing that he didn't look at routinely in the court? yes but be careful. there's an FA just waiting to come out here
Were the family of the victim there? probably Relevant? no

Woodworm

So something was looked at in the court itself, but this was not an exhibit? yes And this thing is bigger than a person? yes

Is it some sort of screening? A piece of film footage? A film taken by a witness? By the victim? Footage of a witness testimony? no to alldid hid defence rely on something that he disproved by not looking at the thing? yesish

Did he claim to be visually impaired or something like this? no Was he in fact blind or visually impaired? no Was he deaf? no Did he understand the instructions to look at the thing? no see next answer Were there any such instructions? no

Was the thing presented as part of the trial? FA Or was it something that appeared by chance in the courtroom? no

Was the thing actually something rather macabre? no

Did the thing have a measurable duration (as a film would have) or was it simply an object? an object

Did he refuse to look because he didn't want to incriminate himself? no Did he simply not think to look? no Did he know, in not looking, that he was going down? not at the time but i'm sure on reflection he wished he had Was he under specific instructions not to look by his lawyer? no

Was there an elephant in the room? no Literally? Metaphorically?

Jenburdoo

I reckon I know this one. Did he know something they didn't? well he knew he was guilty of murder
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there's an actual physical object, and it's in the courtroom, yes? And it's larger than an average man? Are these objects normally found in courtrooms?

Is it actually part of the courtroom? The floor of the court? The ceiling? The bench? The dock? A window?

Was it there five minutes before they looked? Was it there at the time he committed the murder? Was it there at the time the courtroom was first built? Was it still there after the trial? Did he touch it at any time? Did the jury touch it at any time? Is it tangible?

Just to double-check: is Bob actually on trial at the time of the non-looking? Or is he in the courtroom on a different occasion? Assuming the first one (for a moment): is he in the dock when everyone else looks? Is he in the cells at the side? Is he beside his lawyer? On the side benches?

Do they look because:

they hear a noise?
someone tells them to?
the prosecutor tells them to?
the defence lawyer tells them to?

Is the object animal? Vegetable? Mineral? Alive? Bigger than a Citroen C2?

We're not playing sneaky wordgames here, are we? Eg. crime committed on tennis court rather than courtroom, or some such sneakiness I wouldn't put past you?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he, instead of looking at the object, look at something else which incriminated him? Did he look at one of the people who were looking?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there's an actual physical object, and it's in the courtroom, yes? yesAnd it's larger than an average man? yesAre these objects normally found in courtrooms? yes and in all rooms

Is it actually part of the courtroom? yes The floor of the court? The ceiling? The bench? The dock? A window? no to these but you named everything except what it is

Was it there five minutes before they looked? yes Was it there at the time he committed the murder? yes Was it there at the time the courtroom was first built? yes Was it still there after the trial? yes Did he touch it at any time? irr Did the jury touch it at any time? yes but irr Is it tangible? yes

Just to double-check: is Bob actually on trial at the time of the non-looking? yes Or is he in the courtroom on a different occasion? so no Assuming the first one (for a moment): is he in the dock when everyone else looks? yes Is he in the cells at the side? no Is he beside his lawyer? he could be but not necessarily On the side benches? no

Do they look because:

they hear a noise? no
someone tells them to? no
the prosecutor tells them to? no
the defence lawyer tells them to? he didn't actually tell them but.....

Is the object animal? Vegetable? Mineral? Alive? Bigger than a Citroen C2? no to all but i'm guessing you now know what the object is

We're not playing sneaky wordgames here, are we? Eg. crime committed on tennis court rather than courtroom, or some such sneakiness I wouldn't put past you? LOL but no i'm not being sneaky at all

Did he, instead of looking at the object, look at something else which incriminated him? no Did he look at one of the people who were looking? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a door?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or a wall?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But how they don't move themselves, but a part of them does beats me. A door handle moves, but then the whole door does. Not sure of walls with moving parts...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it the flag? Do they have to look to the flag at the time of swearing to tell the truth? And he didn't? I guess the flag itself moves but not the flagpole.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object animal? Vegetable? Mineral? no to all

Is the object tangible? I thought everything was one or the other, however vaguely defined.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a door? yes Or a wall? But how they don't move themselves, but a part of them does beats me. A door handle moves, but then the whole door does. Not sure of walls with moving parts...sorry if i confused you but while the door moves to open the frame doesn't . That's what i meant anyway

Is it the flag? Do they have to look to the flag at the time of swearing to tell the truth? And he didn't? I guess the flag itself moves but not the flagpole.no to this then

apologies again for any door confusion
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can't stop now, but I'll make sure I'll look at every door I see in case I incriminate myself! ;-)
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object animal? Vegetable? Mineral? no to all oops . I'm never sure what mineral means in this sense

Can't stop now, but I'll make sure I'll look at every door I see in case I incriminate myself! ;-) only if you've got a very guilty secret

it might be wise to establish some info on the murder itself
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I may know this I have e-mailed you.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I may know this I have e-mailed you. won't get to that until this evening as i can't access my e-mail account at work. I'll let you know.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It looks like a few people have this, but thanks for not spoiling just yet, because I'm totally stumped and having far too much fun with it.

So we have a murder trial, and at some point during the trial, a door opens: is this right? Does the door open or it is just that the handle moves? Does it matter which door? The door to the outside or public areas? The door to the accused's cells? The door to the witnesses? The door to the judge's chambers?

At which of these points does the door open:

when the accused is called to take the stand?
when a witness is called?
when the jury retires?

Does it open at a very unexpected time? Does someone call for the door to be opened? Is it a normal door? A trapdoor? Anything related to the manner of his execution?

Does anyone walk through the door? Does the lawyer ask someone to walk through the door? Someone who is dead? Is he a mass murderer? Has he murdered someone involved in the legal system? Is the murder weapon relevant? Is the disposal of the body relevant?

Are they all expecting someone to walk through the door? Someone he has killed? Has he tampered with the door in any way?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with you, Woodworm, this is intriguing.

Not sure that the door actually opened as one question was: Had it been moved? no (unless this was referring to the whole door frame)

I'll wait to see the answers to your questions before asking more.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin : My e-mail account has crashed could you send me your solution to peter.j.mcmahon@aib.ie and i'll respond in the morning

Sorry about that.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It looks like a few people have this, but thanks for not spoiling just yet, because I'm totally stumped and having far too much fun with it. thanks hope the solution lives up to it

So we have a murder trial, and at some point during the trial, a door opens: is this right? no Does the door open or it is just that the handle moves? not this either Does it matter which door? yes The door to the outside or public areas? yes the main entrance to the courtroom The door to the accused's cells? The door to the witnesses? The door to the judge's chambers?

At which of these points does the door open: FA

when the accused is called to take the stand?
when a witness is called?
when the jury retires? so none of these

Does it open at a very unexpected time? teh same FA Does someone call for the door to be opened? no Is it a normal door? yes A trapdoor? Anything related to the manner of his execution? no to rest

Does anyone walk through the door? no Does the lawyer ask someone to walk through the door? no but getting closer Someone who is dead? explore this notion but your not quite there yet Is he a mass murderer? no Has he murdered someone involved in the legal system? no Is the murder weapon relevant? no Is the disposal of the body relevant? yes...explore

Are they all expecting someone to walk through the door? yope..but otrt Someone he has killed? yope as above Has he tampered with the door in any way? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree with you, Woodworm, this is intriguing.

Not sure that the door actually opened as one question was: Had it been moved? no (unless this was referring to the whole door frame) thanks Lynne this is the FA. The door definately does not open

I'll wait to see the answers to your questions before asking more.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is now becoming rather sinister, and I'll do the rest of the puzzle peeping through my fingers (cf. Nimue's splendid Severed Head puzzle).

So the door moves, but doesn't open, and no handle is turned? Does the door shake? Blow off its hinges? Is it a revolving door? Is anything slid under the door? Has OH put a corpse behind said door? Are people expecting the victim to appear in the court? Has Bob disposed of his victim somehere in the courtroom itself?

Does a key turn in the lock? Are keys relevant at all?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the prosecution say or hint that the victim would come into the court? But because Bob knew he was dead he knew that he wouldn't so he didn't even look towards the door?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is now becoming rather sinister, and I'll do the rest of the puzzle peeping through my fingers (cf. Nimue's splendid Severed Head puzzle). i can now see where the confusion has arisen.
BLOOPER ALER
When i said the objext does not move but a part of it does i was talking in general about doors. I should of realised that this would imply that the door in the puzzle moved. I hope i haven't ruined this


So the door moves, but doesn't open, and no handle is turned? no as per above the door does not move Does the door shake? Blow off its hinges? Is it a revolving door? Is anything slid under the door? Has OH put a corpse behind said door? no to all of these Are people expecting the victim to appear in the court? can i say half expecting Has Bob disposed of his victim somehere in the courtroom itself? no

Does a key turn in the lock? Are keys relevant at all? no to both
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have we actually established that he is on trial for the crime for which he is executed? Is this so? Or is it a different crime? After all, if he were on trial for murder, no sane person would expect the victim to come breezing through the door (moving or otherwise). Perhaps they are all expecting a witness to appear, and Bob isn't, because he nobbled said witness?

Has he murdered just one person? 2? 3? [Usual list of integers]?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't forget 10.01pm questions please
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't forget 10.01pm questions please sorry that must have come in when i was searching for what i said about the darn door while answering Woodworm's post

Did the prosecution say or hint that the victim would come into the court? not the prosecutor But because Bob knew he was dead he knew that he wouldn't so he didn't even look towards the door? but that's enough for a

******************Spoiler*****************

You're pretty much there so i'll kill this off.
Bob's wife Mary had disappeared and the Cops strongly suspect that Bob murdered her. His lover testified that he spoke of killing her and he had taken out a large insurance policy on Mary's life. Police also found blood stains in Bob's house which matched Mary's . They decided to charge and try him notwithstanding the fact that they couldn't find the body.

Using this point to try and establish a reasonable doubt Bob's lawyer Jim while cross examining a detective proclaimed loudly that Bob's wife could be still alive and gesturing grandly towards the entrance to the courtroom said "what's more she could walk in that door right now"

Naturally everyone in the court looked at the door half expecting to see Mary appear. The only people who didn't were Bob and the prosecutor who was staring at Bob at the time. Noticing that he didn't look because he was the only one who 100% knew she was dead the prosecutor was now convinced of Bob's guilt. He then got him on the stand and challenged him over not looking at the door. This convinced the jury and they found him guilty and he was executed.

Hope my door shananigans didn't spoil this . Well done Lynne and thanks to Woodworm for sticking with it. Judging by your last post you were OTRT.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3776
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Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good puzzle, good teamwork. Yay us!
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 428
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Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was right, didn't want to give it away though. Good way of putting it!

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