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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3671
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ferdinand went to jail because he didn't have a good explanation for his trip to Peoria (a small town in the Midwestern USA), but this trip occurred 2 years before the crime for which he was convicted, which he did not commit in Peoria. How come??
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 505
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Peoria crucial as the destination of his trip? Or could it be any place at all?

Was the crime murder? theft? arson? fraud?

When you say he didn't have a 'good explanation', were the authorities unconvinced that he even went to Peoria in the first place (possibly this was his alibi)? he gave no explanation at all? his explanation wasn't backed by any hard proof? his explanation was too fantastical to believe?

Was he guilty of the crime?
Napride (Napride)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he black with a beard and the authorities assumed he was Muslim? And then when someone blew up a United States asset they wanted a scapegoat?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is Peoria crucial as the destination of his trip? see next answer Or could it be any place at all?no, but Peoria is not the only destination for which this puzzle could work}

Was the crime murder? yes--as it usually is with my crime puzzles theft? no arson? no fraud? no

When you say he didn't have a 'good explanation', were the authorities unconvinced that he even went to Peoria in the first place (possibly this was his alibi)? No--they were convinced that he was there he gave no explanation at all? no his explanation wasn't backed by any hard proof? nohis explanation was too fantastical to believe? noish

Was he guilty of the crime? yes
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 1004
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he appear to be scouting in some way? Finding out about flying lessons, for example? or some such? Was he tied to some kind of terrorist activity? Was he in Peoria on purpose? Was he just being a tourist? Attending some event?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 5:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he appear to be scouting in some way? no Finding out about flying lessons, for example? no or some such? no Was he tied to some kind of terrorist activity? no Was he in Peoria on purpose? yes Was he just being a tourist? noAttending some event? noish
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 1005
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he take anything tangible from Peoria when he left that is relevant?
Did he leave anything tangible in Peoria when he left that is relevant?
Did he meet with anyone while he was in Peoria? Relevant?
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Darn. No embezzlement cases? Why is it always murder...

The murder he was convicted of... was he the primary killer? the guy who hired the person who did the killing? The person who stood back and let it happen?

Did he go on this trip to accomplish something? The murder? A meeting? Give a presentation? Be seen by certain people? To ensure he was NOT in a certain place? To spend money he had? To spend money he shouldn't have had?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3678
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Posted on Thursday, September 04, 2008 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he take anything tangible from Peoria when he left that is relevant? no
Did he leave anything tangible in Peoria when he left that is relevant? no
Did he meet with anyone while he was in Peoria? yes Relevant? yes
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 9:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Darn. No embezzlement cases? Why is it always murder... For the same reason the real "Law & Order" usually deals with murder. That's the most exciting crime. Past puzzles of mine have dealt with other crimes, though, including theft & sexual predation

The murder he was convicted of... was he the primary killer? yesthe guy who hired the person who did the killing? no
The person who stood back and let it happen? No--that wouldn't be a crime unless he had a professional dfuty to intervene (as a police officer would)

Did he go on this trip to accomplish something? yes The murder? no A meeting? yesGive a presentation? no Be seen by certain people? See previous answer but one To ensure he was NOT in a certain place? noTo spend money he had? no To spend money he shouldn't have had? no
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Post Number: 1006
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Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant person he met with was the victim? An accomplice? Knowingly an accomplice? Arrested as well? Charged? A person of interest to the police at all?
Ferdinand know the victim? Ever met them?
The person he met know the victim? Ever met them?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he murder his own two-year old son, who was conceived in Peoria?

Did he purchase the murder weapon in Peoria?

Did something happen in Peoria which turned out to be the motive for the crime?

Is the name 'Peoria' relevant? I mean, if it were the same town in every other respect but named 'Springfield', would the puzzle still work?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought of the conception thingie too Woodworm, but I think it would be a 1 year old son :-)

Is it relevant that Peoria is considered to be a representation of the average American city because of its demographics? ("Will it play in Peoria?")

Is mainstream midwestern culture relevant?

Did the meeting in Peoria directly lead to the murder? Was it about planning the murder? Setting it up?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3681
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The relevant person he met with was the victim? noAn accomplice? no Knowingly an accomplice? no Arrested as well? noCharged? noA person of interest to the police at all? no
Ferdinand know the victim? yes Ever met them? yes
The person he met know the victim? yes Ever met them? yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, September 05, 2008 - 11:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he murder his own two-year old son, who was conceived in Peoria? no

Did he purchase the murder weapon in Peoria? no

Did something happen in Peoria which turned out to be the motive for the crime? no

Is the name 'Peoria' relevant? no I mean, if it were the same town in every other respect but named 'Springfield', would the puzzle still work? yes
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2008 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I thought of the conception thingie too Woodworm, but I think it would be a 1 year old son :-)

Is it relevant that Peoria is considered to be a representation of the average American city because of its demographics? ("Will it play in Peoria?") no

Is mainstream midwestern culture relevant?no

Did the meeting in Peoria directly lead to the murder? no Was it about planning the murder? no Setting it up? no
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he actually asked to explain his trip? If so, was he asked it in court? By a friend? By someone who was later a witness?

Is Peoria relevant because of its geographical location? The surrounding landscape? Something in its history? An attraction there?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3684
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was he actually asked to explain his trip? yes If so, was he asked it in court? yesBy a friend? no By someone who was later a witness? no

Is Peoria relevant because of its geographical location? noishThe surrounding landscape? noSomething in its history? no An attraction there? yope
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suburban vs. urban environment relevant? Farming?

Is what took place during the meeting in Peoria actually relevant? Is the fact that he was able to get to Peoria relevant? What method of transportation he took?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 2:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Suburban vs. urban environment relevant? yope Farming? no

Is what took place during the meeting in Peoria actually relevant? yes Is the fact that he was able to get to Peoria relevant? no What method of transportation he took? no
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he had been able to explain his trip to Peoria, would it have given him a better alibi for the murder charge somehow?
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we actually talking about Peoria, Illinois (you only said a small Midwestern town)? Is there another Peoria somewhere in the Midwest that might have been his destination? Relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 9:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If he had been able to explain his trip to Peoria, would it have given him a better alibi for the murder charge somehow? yope
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 9:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are we actually talking about Peoria, Illinois (you only said a small Midwestern town)? The actual "Law & Order" episode involved Peoria, IL, but most small cities or towns would do Is there another Peoria somewhere in the Midwest that might have been his destination? I have no idea Relevant? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Find out the relationships between Ferdinand & the person he met, the person F met in Peoria & the victim, & F & the victim.
Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Ferdinand went to Peoria to meet someone. And 2 years later he was convicted, by Peoria law officers, for a murder he had committed 2 years ago, but the murder did not occur in Peoria. Is this correct?

Assuming this is right:

Did Ferdinand kidnap someone before he murdered them? And carried them to his home to kill them? Carried them to another city in the same state to kill them?

Did Ferdinand go to Peoria to kill someone? Did he expect to meet this person in the meeting he had? Or did something said by the person he met cause him to believe he had to kill this person?

Were Ferdinand the person he met:

friends?
foes?
family? if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc....

Were the person met in Peoria and the victim:

friends?
foes?
family? if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc....

Were the victim and Ferdinand:

friends?
foes?
family? if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc....
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 10:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So Ferdinand went to Peoria to meet someone. yes And 2 years later he was convicted yes, by Peoria law officers no, not by Peoria law officers, for a murder he had committed 2 years ago, but the murder did not occur in Peoria. yes Is this correct? yope--see responses to each point

Assuming this is right:

Did Ferdinand kidnap someone before he murdered them? no And carried them to his home to kill them? no Carried them to another city in the same state to kill them? no

Did Ferdinand go to Peoria to kill someone? noDid he expect to meet this person in the meeting he had?He met the person he expected to but it wasn't the murder victim Or did something said by the person he met cause him to believe he had to kill this person? no

Were Ferdinand the person he met:

friends? yes
foes? no
family? no if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc....

Were the person met in Peoria and the victim:

friends? see below
foes? no
family? yes if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc.... other

Were the victim and Ferdinand:

friends? yes
foes? yope
family? no if so, mother? father? siblings? cousins? etc....
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the person met in Peoria and the victim married?

Is a love triangle involved?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 10:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Were the person met in Peoria and the victim married?yes

Is a love triangle involved? yesish or yope
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person he met in Peoria male? female?
How about the victim? (In this day and age, esp. on LTPF, I see the need to ask these separately, even knowing they were married)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 2:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the person he met in Peoria male? no female? yes
How about the victim? male(In this day and age, esp. on LTPF, I see the need to ask these separately, even knowing they were married) It's a new millennium!!
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 191
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had him and the woman in Peoria ever met in person before the trip that is relevant to this murder case (anywhere, not necessarily in Peoria)? If so, was anything relevant said or done at that prior meeting? would it have been much easier for the two to meet somewhere other than Peoria?

(I'm trying to figure out why visiting a friend would be seen as suspicious enough to need an explanation other than "we were friends")
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 4:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Had him and the woman in Peoria ever met in person before the trip that is relevant to this murder case (anywhere, not necessarily in Peoria)? yesIf so, was anything relevant said or done at that prior meeting? yesishwould it have been much easier for the two to meet somewhere other than Peoria? no

(I'm trying to figure out why visiting a friend would be seen as suspicious enough to need an explanation other than "we were friends") I think you may be making a false assumption
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Explore the false assumption identified in the previous posting.
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Ferdinand in fact visiting a friend? Was Ferdinand there for some other reason? And just happened to run into a friend? Into an enemy?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand (during the court proceedings) try to claim he was elsewhere during the time he was actually at Peoria?

Did the murder occur before the visit to Peoria? After? Relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was Ferdinand in fact visiting a friend? yesish Was Ferdinand there for some other reason? noishAnd just happened to run into a friend? no Into an enemy?noishish
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 5:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Ferdinand (during the court proceedings) try to claim he was elsewhere during the time he was actually at Peoria? no

Did the murder occur before the visit to Peoria? no After? yesRelevant?yesish
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the person that Ferdinand meeting in Peoria a friend at the time of the meeting? Or did they become friends later?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 5:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the person that Ferdinand meeting in Peoria a friend at the time of the meeting? yesOr did they become friends later? no
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to clear up the FA you alluded to a few posts earlier...

Was the fact that Ferdinand visited a friend in Peoria cause for suspicion in and of itself?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Trying to clear up the FA you alluded to a few posts earlier...

Was the fact that Ferdinand visited a friend in Peoria cause for suspicion in and of itself? yesish
Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Post Number: 78
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Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The 3 involved:

1. Frank - H?A?M?

2. the person he met in Peoria - H?A?F?

3. the victim - H?A?M? or F?

Did Frank go to Peoria to see a former/present lover?

Did the victim find out about it and was killed because of it?

Maybe someone could post a recap? (:
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 10:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The 3 involved:

1. Frank - H?I assume you mean Ferdinand: yesA? yesM? yes

2. the person he met in Peoria - H? yesA? yesF? yes

3. the victim - H? yesA? yesM? yes or F? no

Did Frank go to Peoria to see a former/present lover? no

Did the victim find out about it no and was killed because of it? no

Maybe someone could post a recap? (: Add the following to the puzzle statement. Fedinand went to Peoria to see a woman (call her Liza Nell). & had no other reason for being there. This helped convict him of the murder of her husband, 2 years later & not in Peoria.Ferdinand & Liza Nell were not lovers,
Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter how Ferdinand and Liza Nell met? Or how long they had been friends?

So he went to Peoria to see her, and then 2 years later he was convicted of killing her husband, right?

You say his being in Peoria to meet her was somehow proof (or gave proof) that he had killed her husband, right?

I assume it is relevant as to why it took 2 years to convict him.

Was he convicted in his home state? Is it important what state it is?

Does Liza Nell's husband going to Ferdinand's state of residence (if he indeed did) have anything to do with his (the husband's) relationship to Ferdinand through his(the husband's)wife's friendship with Ferdinand? Or was it a coincidence the husband was in Ferdinand's home state?

Did Liza Nell know that Ferdinand had killed her husband?
If so, was it:

shortly after his death?

or was it right after he met her in Peoria 2 years
before his conviction?


If so:
did she know of his guilt by seeing
him?

by hearing him say something?


I hope these make sense.....
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand try to claim to the law that he did not know Liza Nell?

When Ferdinand visited Peoria, did he already have the intent to murder Liza's husband?

How long after the visit to Peoria did murder take place? [insert LTPF list of hours, days, weeks, months here, as necessary] Relevant? The exact method of murder relevant? If yes, was he shot? stabbed? strangled? suffocated? bludgeoned? pushed off a tall place? crushed? poisoned? something else?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 12:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it matter how Ferdinand and Liza Nell met? noishOr how long they had been friends? ditto

So he went to Peoria to see her yes, and then 2 years later he was convicted of killing her husband, right?not necessarily

You say his being in Peoria to meet her was somehow proof (or gave proof) that he had killed her husband, right? 'proof' is too strong, but you're ORT (on the right track)

I assume it is relevant as to why it took 2 years to convict him.you may have a false assumption here

Was he convicted in his home state? presumablyIs it important what state it is? no

Does Liza Nell's husband going to Ferdinand's state of residence (if he indeed did) have anything to do with his (the husband's) relationship to Ferdinand through his(the husband's)wife's friendship with Ferdinand? yope Or was it a coincidence the husband was in Ferdinand's home state? no

Did Liza Nell know that Ferdinand had killed her husband?
If so, was it:

shortly after his death? no

or was it right after he met her in Peoria 2 years
before his conviction? no

If so:
did she know of his guilt by seeing
him? no

by hearing him say something? yesish

I hope these make sense.....
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 12:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Ferdinand try to claim to the law that he did not know Liza Nell? no

When Ferdinand visited Peoria, did he already have the intent to murder Liza's husband? possibly

How long after the visit to Peoria did murder take place? [insert LTPF list of hours, days, weeks, months here, as necessary]Well, the puzzle statement says 2 years Relevant?somewhat The exact method of murder relevant?some are particularly well suited but almost any method is possible If yes, was he shot? stabbed? strangled? suffocated? bludgeoned? pushed off a tall place? crushed? poisoned? something else? In the "Law & Order" episode, it was bludgeoned
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand claim in the courts to not know Liza Nell's husband? Was Liza Nell and her husband married at the time Ferdinand visited Peoria? If yes, did Ferdinand know of this? Relevant?

Did Liza Nell suspect Ferdinand of killing her husband, before the actual conviction? Relevant?

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a necessary condition in order for the conviction to be successful?

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a necessary condition for the police to decided to charge him for murder?

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a sufficient condition for the police to decided to charge him for murder?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Ferdinand claim in the courts to not know Liza Nell's husband no Was Liza Nell and her husband married at the time Ferdinand visited Peoria? yesIf yes, did Ferdinand know of this? yes Relevant? yes

Did Liza Nell suspect Ferdinand of killing her husband, before the actual conviction?yope Relevant? yope

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a necessary condition in order for the conviction to be successful?Possibly--it's often hard to know what clinches a case for a jury

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a necessary condition for the police to decided to charge him for murder?They might have charged him without this information

Was Ferdinand visiting Peoria two years prior to the murder a sufficient condition for the police to decided to charge him for murder? No--along with other factors, it helped make the case.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...I'll going to try this from another angle...

When the courts ask Ferdinand for a reason why he visited Peoria, did he tell them the truth? Tried to deceive by omission? Tried to deceive by addition?

Is there anyone else directly relevant to the puzzle other than Ferdinand, Liza Nell, her dead husband, and (of course) the detectives from Law and Order? If yes, how many [insert LTPF list of integers here]?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 11:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmmm...I'll going to try this from another angle...

When the courts ask Ferdinand for a reason why he visited Peoria, did he tell them the truth? no Tried to deceive by omission? yes Tried to deceive by addition? yes

Is there anyone else directly relevant to the puzzle other than Ferdinand, Liza Nell, her dead husband, and (of course) the detectives from Law and Order? If yes, how many [insert LTPF list of integers here]? yesish
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many other persons are directly related to this puzzle?

Reason why Ferdinand did not tell the courts the truth -- was he afraid that it would establish his guilt? Trying to protect someone else? Do we need to discover the exact lies he told the court for the purposes of this puzzle?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
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Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 1:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
How many other persons are directly related to this puzzle?not a specific number

Reason why Ferdinand did not tell the courts the truth -- was he afraid that it would establish his guilt? yes Trying to protect someone else? no Do we need to discover the exact lies he told the court for the purposes of this puzzle? yesish
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: Add the following to the puzzle description. Ferdinand went to Peoria to visit Liza Nell. 2 years later he murdered her husband. He had been friends with Liza Nell & her husband & had not been having an affair with Liza Nell.
HINTS:1. I think you all are making a false assumption about the Peoria visit. 2. The material in the recap should suggest an obvious question.
Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Ferdinand having an affair with Liza Nell's husband?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bigpurple (Bigpurple)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 2:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was Ferdinand having an affair with Liza Nell's husband? no
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ferdinand related to Liza Nell?

Did he murder her husband on her behalf? For money? To "clear the decks"?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The false assumption about the visit to Peoria:
he was not in Peoria at all (just planned to do it)?
he did not meet Liza Nell?
she was not in Peoria?
she was not married then? (or married to another husband?)
she did not live in Peoria?
they had a particular reason for meeting in Peoria (other than one of them was living there)?

Did they meet each other in Peoria just by chance?

Were Ferdinand and Liza Nell friends already long before the visit to Peoria? same question for Ferdinand and Liza's husband?

Did Ferdinand have a reason to murder Liza's husband? one that is not related to Liza?

Did Liza and her husband live in Peoria all the time? did they live there at all?

Was Ferdinand in Peoria once more after this visit? or before the visit, maybe?

Was Ferdinand's visit to Peoria related to a crime? if so: was Ferdinand involved in the crime? was Liza?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 12:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is Ferdinand related to Liza Nell?

Did he murder her husband on her behalf? noFor money? noTo "clear the decks"? yes but not on her behalf
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The false assumption about the visit to Peoria:
he was not in Peoria at all (just planned to do it)? No--he was in Peoria
he did not meet Liza Nell? He met her
she was not in Peoria? she was
she was not married then? She was married to the man F. latter mureered (or married to another husband?)
she did not live in Peoria? Bingo!! That's it--she did not live in Peoria
they had a particular reason for meeting in Peoria (other than one of them was living there)?false assumption

Did they meet each other in Peoria just by chance? no

Were Ferdinand and Liza Nell friends already long before the visit to Peoria? yessame question for Ferdinand and Liza's husband? yesish

Did Ferdinand have a reason to murder Liza's husband? no one that is not related to Liza? no

Did Liza and her husband live in Peoria all the time? nodid they live there at all? no

Was Ferdinand in Peoria once more after this visit? noor before the visit, maybe? no

Was Ferdinand's visit to Peoria related to a crime? no, except insofar as it was relatedish to the murder of LN's husband if so: was Ferdinand involved in the crime? see previous answer was Liza? no
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 2:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did LN's husband think that F was having an affair with LN, based on their meeting in Peoria?
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was LN tipped about the murder by something she heard in Peoria? Saw? Smelled? Maybe she didn't realize the connection until after the murder?

Did F unintentionally reveal his intentions for murder in Peoria? Did he even plan on murder at that time? How far before the murder was it premeditated [LTPF list of hours, days, weeks, etc.]? Was it a crime of passion? opportunity?

Does this have anything to do with a preexisting medical condition in any of the parties? LN? F? LN's Husband?

Have anything to do with Bradley?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, October 24, 2008 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rcs (Rcs)
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Did LN's husband think that F was having an affair with LN, based on their meeting in Peoria?no
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Was LN tipped about the murder by something she heard in Peoria?yope Saw? yesish Smelled? no Maybe she didn't realize the connection until after the murder? yes

Did F unintentionally reveal his intentions for murder in Peoria? no Did he even plan on murder at that time? possibly How far before the murder was it premeditated [LTPF list of hours, days, weeks, etc.]? irrelWas it a crime of passion? yesish opportunity? no

Does this have anything to do with a preexisting medical condition in any of the parties? no LN? no F? no LN's Husband? no

Have anything to do with Bradley? no
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the thing that LN saw/heard something that F did or possessed? was it an object? an action? an activity? was her tip off caused by F at all?

btw Nimue, I've got a puzzle that I just put up yesterday if you'd care to join =) It's called Tower of Babel.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 1:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was the thing that LN saw/heard something that F did yesor possessed? no was it an object? no an action? yes an activity? sdee previous answer was her tip off caused by F at all? yes

btw Nimue, I've got a puzzle that I just put up yesterday if you'd care to join =) It's called Tower of Babel. In the lateral puzzle forum, as in life, there are those who create problems & those who solve them. I belong in the former category.
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Haha, alright you problem maker! Let's take a closer look...

So, LN saw and heard something that F did...was this action out of the ordinary for him? was it prompted by an outside stimulus? did he do it because something just came to mind? did he do it for seemingly no reason at all? Would LN find it peculiar for anyone to make this action?

Did this action require the ability to speak? Was it noisy? Did it cost money to do? Was it done in public? private? Did this action affect anyone else immediately (i.e. - he hit someone)? Was it a solo action (i.e. - waving his arms in the air)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Haha, alright you problem maker! Let's take a closer look...

So, LN saw and heard something that F did...was this action out of the ordinary for him? yope was it prompted by an outside stimulus? yesishdid he do it because something just came to mind? no did he do it for seemingly no reason at all?noWould LN find it peculiar for anyone to make this action? no

Did this action require the ability to speak? yope Was it noisy? no Did it cost money to do? yes Was it done in public? yesish private? noishDid this action affect anyone else immediatelynoish (i.e. - he hit someone)? no Was it a solo action yesish (i.e. - waving his arms in the air)? not that
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...that's a lot of ish! Let's see...was F's action directed towards LN? Towards another person? Towards an indeterminable force (such as nature or God)?

Was this action done in partial seclusion (such as a hidden area of a park, or while in free-fall during a parachuting jump)?

Did the action cost a lot of money (say >$1,000)? A moderate amount ($400-$999)? A small amount ($100-399)? A petty amount (<$100)?

Was this the first time and last time F did this action? Was it a hobby or fetish of his?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmmm...that's a lot of ish! Let's see...was F's action directed towards LN? yes Towards another person? noTowards an indeterminable force (such as nature or God)? no

Was this action done in partial seclusion (such as a hidden area of a park, or while in free-fall during a parachuting jump)? no

Did the action cost a lot of money (say >$1,000)? A moderate amount ($400-$999)? A small amount ($100-399)? A petty amount (<$100)? probably in your "moderate" category

Was this the first time and last time F did this action?This depends on how tightly you define "this action" Was it a hobby no or fetish yope of his?
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this action an activity? The difference being that an action would be something like waving, taking a picture, etc. An activity would be like a carriage ride, horseback riding, fencing, etc.

Did F show an over-obsession for this activity? Is this activity something that is purchased through a vendor of some type (a vendor being anyone who would sell the activity, a skydiving shop is a vendor).
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 12:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is this action an activity? The difference being that an action would be something like waving, taking a picture, etc. An activity would be like a carriage ride, horseback riding, fencing, etc.It's an action

Did F show an over-obsession for this activity?in the words of a great authority, (a character in one of my short stories), "An obsession is a strong interest that someone disapproves of." Where does anyone come off telling someone else how interested to be in something? OK, now I'll come off my soapobox & say most people would definitely say that F. had an obsession Is this activity something that is purchased through a vendor of some type (a vendor being anyone who would sell the activity, a skydiving shop is a vendor).no or noish
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it cost money because of a ticket that was given? Was the money paid out to LN? A stranger? Did F intend that this action would cost money?

Where did anyone go off telling anyone how interested they should be in something? I think the real question is, where does someone go off telling someone else what they can or can't approve of!
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Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 9:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did it cost money because of a ticket that was given? no Was the money paid out to LN? no A stranger? yesDid F intend that this action would cost money? yope

Where did anyone go off telling anyone how interested they should be in something? I think the real question is, where does someone go off telling someone else what they can or can't approve of! Well, I'm perfectly willing to tell you not to approve of amusing oneself by sticking pins into people, cutting off their fingers & toes one by one, listening to them scream, & then murdering them.
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Posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did F pay someone the money? Was the giving of the money the action?

Touche. However, whether or not that is good or bad, or if I should approve or disapprove, I would still call it unsolicited advice ;)
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Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Did F pay someone the money?yes Was the giving of the money the action? no

Touche. However, whether or not that is good or bad, or if I should approve or disapprove, I would still call it unsolicited advice ;) Obviously, it's unsolicited advice, but it's just fine to give unsolicited advice against committing murder. Unsolicited advice has gotten a bad name becasuse so many people give it about things that are none of their business, like another person's eating, drinking, smoking, or exercise habits. There's also nothing wrong with the following bit of unsolicited advice: Why not turn your clever lateral mind to my 2 other puzzles as well??
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Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this action result in the attainment of a physical object? An action in return? The promise of later action, assistance, or product? If the action cost F the money, but he did not pay it to someone, does that mean he lost it? burned it? buried it? threw it out a window? I can't think of many ways that a man loses a few hundred dollars and nobody else gets it.
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Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Does this action result in the attainment of a physical object? noishAn action in return? yope The promise of later action, assistance, or product? noIf the action cost F the money, but he did not pay it to someone, does that mean he lost it? burned it? buried it? threw it out a window? I can't think of many ways that a man loses afew hundred dollars and nobody else gets it. He DID pay it to someone. As I said above, he DID give the money to a stranger
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Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ah, my mistake. Was this an act of charity?
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ah, my mistake. Was this an act of charity? No. He paid for something.
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I don't feel like reading all this, so I request a recap.
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I don't feel like reading all this, so I request a recap. Add the following to the puzzle description. Ferdinand went to Peoria to visit Liza Nell. 2 years later he murdered her husband. He had been friends with Liza Nell & her husband & had not been having an affair with Liza Nell or with Liza Nell's husband. Liza Nell & her husband did not live in Peoria.
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Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this based on a true story? Was Ferdinand convicted of murder? Are all the names involved H? A? M/F (respectively)? Is Ferdinand's motive behind the murder relevant? Is Ferdinand and Liza Nell's relationship relevant? How about between Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husband? Is the mechanism of death relevant? Is the geographic location of Peoria relevant? Would it have to be a certain place in Peoria, or would just his lack of reason behind his being inside the town?
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Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Is this based on a true story?|It's from "Law & Order," but I don't know whether this particular e[pisode was "ripped from the headlines." Certainly not frpom a headline I ever saw.} Was Ferdinand convicted of murder? yes Are all the names involved H? A? M/F (respectively)? yes Is Ferdinand's motive behind the murder relevant? It sure is--& oddly enough, you're the first person to ask this!! Is Ferdinand and Liza Nell's relationship relevant?yes How about between Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husband? yes Is the mechanism of death relevant? yes Is the geographic location of Peoria relevant? yope Would it have to be a certain place in Peoria yes, or would just his lack of reason behind his being inside the town?yes--& this isn't a typo
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Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should I further explore this "Peoria" location?
Ferdinand actually and unlawfully brought about Liza Nell's husbands death...? By...
Gunshot? Vehicular manslaughter? Drowning? Electrocution? Something imaginative? Something unimaginative I failed to list here?
Ferdinand's motive...
Money? Revenge? Power? Something else?
Did Ferdinand think that he would be prosecuted for murder when he committed the action? Is it relevant when he was convicted?
Ferdinand and Liza's relationship...
Personal? Professional? Friends? Rivals? Frienemies? Family? Friends?
Ferdinand and Liza's husband's relationship...
Personal? Professional? Friends? Rivals? Frienemies? Family? Friends?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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<i>It takes experience to think outside the box. Remember, unlike some of these people we've been here longer than Barack Obama has been in U.S. National Politics. (No offense to Obama or any new LTPF members. You know we love you! :-]) But I digress...
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Posted on Sunday, November 02, 2008 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

</i>
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Should I further explore this "Peoria" location? yope
Ferdinand actually and unlawfully brought about Liza Nell's husbands death...? By...
Gunshot? no Vehicular manslaughter? noDrowning? no Electrocution? no Something imaginative? not especially Something unimaginative I failed to list here? yes
Ferdinand's motive...
Money? noRevenge? no Power? noSomething else? yes
Did Ferdinand think that he would be prosecuted for murder when he committed the action? no Is it relevant when he was convicted? yesish
Ferdinand and Liza's relationship...
Personal? yesProfessional? no Friends? yes Rivals? no Frienemies? noFamily? noFriends? yes
Ferdinand and Liza's husband's relationship...
Personal? yesProfessional? no Friends? yesRivals? yes Frienemies? yesFamily? no Friends? yes
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Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Liza Nell's husband's mechanism of death...
Hemorrhage? Acidosis? Cardiac arrest? Asphyxiation? Crushing by elephant? Blunt trauma? Fatal hilarity? Water-electrolyte imbalance? Physical trauma of some kind? Exsanguination?
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Did Ferdinand think that no one would find out that he committed the crime? Or did he think that it would be considered justifiable homicide under the state's homicide statutes (e.g., use of lethal force in protection of the life of oneself or another)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Was Liza Nell's husband's mechanism of death...
Hemorrhage? possiblyAcidosis? no Cardiac arrest? no, except insofar as all death but brain death is caused by cardiac arrest Asphyxiation? noCrushing by elephant? noBlunt trauma? yesishFatal hilarity? no Water-electrolyte imbalance? noPhysical trauma of some kind? yes Exsanguination?
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Did Ferdinand think that no one would find out that he committed the crime? yes Or did he think that it would be considered justifiable homicide under the state's homicide statutes (e.g., use of lethal force in protection of the life of oneself or another)? no
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was he bludgeoned to death?
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was he bludgeoned to death? yes
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That sounds like blunt-force trauma! How sad. Was the motive...
personal?
professional?
political?
religious?
psychological?
conscious?
subconscious?
unconscious?
hypercorrect?
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That sounds like blunt-force trauma! How sad. Was the motive...
personal? Yes. Find out more!!!!!
professional? no
political? no
religious? no
psychological? What do you mean? What motive isn't psychological? If you mean, did the motive involve an end that was emotional rather than, say, practical (like money), the answer is yes.
conscious? yes
subconscious? no
unconscious? no
hypercorrect? What do you mean??
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there some kind of a grudge? Did he kill his son? are any albatrosses relevant? Oh, and by psychological in my above post, I meant "Did he formulate a decision in his mind to kill him and his actions thus followed?".
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Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was there some kind of a grudge? no Did he kill his son? no are any albatrosses relevant? not a one Oh, and by psychological in my above post, I meant "Did he formulate a decision in his mind to kill him and his actions thus followed?" That sounds as if you're asking whether the murder was premeditated. Yes, it was
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Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How long was the premeditation? Less than a minute? Less than an hour? Several Days? A week? Seven years? His entire life? The other "his" entire life? Since the creation of the universe?
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Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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How long was the premeditation? Less than a minute? Less than an hour? Several Days? A week? Seven years? His entire life? The other "his" entire life? Since the creation of the universe?He could have been considering the murder for anywhere from a few weeks to a few years.
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Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2008 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he purchase the murder weapon while in peoria?
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did he purchase the murder weapon while in peoria? no
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If he had gone to a different town and not had a good reason, would the jury still have convicted him?
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If he had gone to a different town and not had a good reason, would the jury still have convicted him? If other elements of the puzzle were changed accordingly.
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can you do a quick recap? I forgot exactly what the time line we determined was. Something about somebody at some time killing somebody for some reason, I believe?
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Can you do a quick recap? I forgot exactly what the time line we determined was. Something about somebody at some time killing somebody for some reason, I believe?Add the following to the puzzle statement. Fedinand went to Peoria to see a woman (call her Liza Nell) & had no other reason for being there. This helped convict him of the murder of her husband, 2 years later & not in Peoria. Ferdinand & Liza Nell were not lovers,nor were Ferdinand & LN's husband. F & LN were friends. F & LN 's husband were frenemies. None of the 3 people has ever lived in Peoria. F. bludgeoned LN's husband to death.
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Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so we have
1) Ferdinand was convicted of murder of Liza Nell's huband.
2) Ferdinand was convicted because he didn't have a good explanation for his trip to Peoria.
3) Ferdinand wouldn't have been convicted if he had a good explanation for his trip to Peoria (assuming that visiting Liza Nell is insufficient for being there).
4) Ferdinand went to Peoria to visit Liza Nell.
5) This trip occurred 2 years before the Liza Nell's husbands murder.
6) The murder did not occur in Peoria.
7) Ferdinand and Liza Nell were not lovers.
8) Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husband were not lovers.
9) Ferdinand and Liza Nell were friends.
10) Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husbands acted like friends, but they were secretly plotting against each other.
11) None of these three people has ever lived in Peoria.
12) Ferdinand bludgeoned Liza Nell's husband to death.

Did Ferdinand know Liza Nell's husband when he made his trip to Peoria? Was Liza Nell alive at the time of his trip? At the time of the murder? At the time of the conviction? Relevant?
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
OK, so we have
1) Ferdinand was convicted of murder of Liza Nell's huband. yes
2) Ferdinand was convicted because he didn't have a good explanation for his trip to Peoria. Well, this helped a lot, but it wasn't the whole case. More loke the last straw
3) Ferdinand wouldn't have been convicted if he had a good explanation for his trip to Peoria Quite likely (assuming that visiting Liza Nell is insufficient for being there). yes
4) Ferdinand went to Peoria to visit Liza Nell. yes
5) This trip occurred 2 years before the Liza Nell's husbands murder. yes
6) The murder did not occur in Peoria. yes
7) Ferdinand and Liza Nell were not lovers. yes
8) Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husband were not lovers. yes
9) Ferdinand and Liza Nell were friends. yes
10) Ferdinand and Liza Nell's husbands acted like friends, but they were secretly plotting against each other. yope
11) None of these three people has ever lived in Peoria. yes
12) Ferdinand bludgeoned Liza Nell's husband to death. yes

Did Ferdinand know Liza Nell's husband when he made his trip to Peoria? yes Was Liza Nell alive at the time of his trip? yes At the time of the murder? yesAt the time of the conviction? yes Relevant? yes
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the location of LN and F's meeting within Peoria relevant? Is the reason for their meeting relevant? The length of their stay in Peoria? The order in which they arrived? departed?
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand have any idea he was going to kill Liza Nell's husband when he was in Peoria? Did anything significant happen while he was there? Can you give Liza Nell's husband a name? Preferably one word? four letters or less in length? Or not? Was Ferdinand secretly plotting against Liza Nell's husband? Vice versa?
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is the location of LN and F's meeting within Peoria relevant? yes Is the reason for their meeting relevant? yesThe length of their stay in Peoria? yesThe order in which they arrived? yes departed? yes
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Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Ferdinand have any idea he was going to kill Liza Nell's husband when he was in Peoria? podssibly but not necessarilyDid anything significant happen while he was there? yesish Can you give Liza Nell's husband a name? yes. Oh, you want a name. How about Guy?Preferably one word? four letters or less in length? Or not? Was Ferdinand secretly plotting against Liza Nell's husband?yes Vice versa? no
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant when the story takes place? If so, was it 19th century? 20 th? 21st? earlier?

Does/did anything special take place in Peoria which is relevant to our case?

Was another crime involved other than the murder (something like both Guy and Ferdinand were members of maffia?)
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ferdinand actually tell during the prosecution that he had met Liza Nell before? Relevant?

Was Liza Nell happy when her husband was murdered?

Did any of the three persons involved have a common profession (like, e.g. spies?)

Was the reason why F killed G fear?

The action F did in Peoria and LN saw - was it relevant in terms she knew he was able to do something special (e.g. had enough force/ knew to handle a bludgeon in a special way) which killed her husband?

Should we explore the kind of friendship between LN and F? (Why on earth would a man kill a woman's husband if they were not lovers?)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3832
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 15
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Ferdinand actually tell during the prosecution that he had met Liza Nell before?yope Relevant yes

Was Liza Nell happy when her husband was murdered? no

Did any of the three persons involved have a common profession (like, e.g. spies?)Being a spy is not a common profession. Guy & Liza Nell's professions are irrel. There are some restrictions in what Ferdinand's profession could be.

Was the reason why F killed G fear? no

The action F did in Peoria and LN saw - was it relevant in terms she knew he was able to do something special (e.g. had enough force/ knew to handle a bludgeon in a special way) which killed her husband no

Should we explore the kind of friendship between LN and F? yes(Why on earth would a man kill a woman's husband if they were not lovers? Isn't there an obvious answer. Think about it!!!!!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were LN and F family? Siblings? Father and daughter? (I did not even think about it as you said they were friends)

I meant "common" as "the same". Sorry for the confusion.
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 740
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was guy having an affair with ferdinand's wife/girlfriend?
was guy in some way harming F?
was guy blackmailing F?
were guy and F professional rivals? rivals in love?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3833
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 18
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Were LN and F family? no Siblings? no Father and daughter? no(I did not even think about it as you said they were friends)

I meant "common" as "the same". Sorry for the confusion. It's irrel whether any of the 3 were in the same profession. And I'm the one who should be apologizing for the misunderstanding, as your reading of the question is more natural than mine was
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Username: Kdoc Hi, Hannah!! Great to see you here again!!

Post Number: 740
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was guy having an affair with ferdinand's wife/girlfriend? no
was guy in some way harming F?yope
was guy blackmailing F? no
were guy and F professional rivals? norivals in love? yesish
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 742
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was F in love with LN, even though they weren't lovers?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3834
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 742
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was F in love with LN, even though they weren't lovers? Yes!!!!!!!! This illustrates why we need Clever Hannah on this forum!! Now the puzzle should be easy to solve.
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 743
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was F stalking LN? when they met in Peoria? so if he had no other good reason for being there this was evidence tht he was obsessed with her? thus giving a motive for murder of her husband?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 3836
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 743
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Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was F stalking LN? yes when they met in Peoria? yes so if he had no other good reason for being there this was evidence tht he was obsessed with her? yes thus giving a motive for murder of her husband? yes

**** SPOILER ******************
Guy died while on a rock climbing trip with his friend (of sorts) Ferdinand.People believed it was an accidental fall. Ferdinand comforted Guy's widow, Liza Nell, in her grief, & a year later she married him. Eventually, Guy's mother became suspicious & unearthed evidence that F's injuries were compatible with being bludgeoned. What helped cook Guy's goose was that he had previously shown up in Peoria while LN was on a business trip & claimed he was also there on busniess. But his company glad no record of sending him to Peoria. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Hannah, & please check out my new puzzle you know where.
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
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Post Number: 180
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ahhhhhh! why didn't we see this earlier?! good one =)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 3842
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks!! Please check out my others!

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