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Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4246
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After carefully considering her options, Veranelle decided that her best course of action was to put the house keys in the refrigerator. How come?
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Post Number: 223
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they her own house keys? Was it her refrigerator? Is she trying to hide the keys from someone?
Any medical ailments relevant? E.g. nosebleed?
Did she need the keys to be cold? Anything to do with the temperature of the keys affecting how they slide into the lock?
Are they on a keyring? Anything else relevant attached to them?
Would it help to know what other options she considered?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4247
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Post Number: 223
Registered: 10-2005

Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Were they her own house keys? no Was it her refrigerator? yesIs she trying to hide the keys from someone? no
Any medical ailments relevant? yes E.g. nosebleed? no
Did she need the keys to be cold? no Anything to do with the temperature of the keys affecting how they slide into the lock? no
Are they on a keyring? irrel Anything else relevant attached to them? no
Would it help to know what other options she considered? yes
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant who the keys belong to? Is it someone who is in her home? Any other people relevant? Has she stolen them? Found them? Been given them? Are they someone's spare keys? Does she plan to use them? In the normal sense, to open doors? Or in another way?
Is the medical ailment, her own? The owner of the keys? Someone else? Does it involve bleeding? Aches/pains? Something more serious? More long-term?
Does she do anything else to the keys? Is there something else in her fridge that is relevant?
Do the other options she considers involve the keys being cold? Hot? Out of sight? Somewhere she will see them while going about her business, in case she forgets about them?
Does she put them in the fridge so she will remember to use them, e.g. at breakfast time?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4248
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2005

Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 9:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant who the keys belong to? yes Is it someone who is in her home? yes Any other people relevant? yes Has she stolen them? see next answerFound them? yes Been given them? no Are they someone's spare keys? possiblyDoes she plan to use them? yesIn the normal sense, to open doors? no Or in another way? yes
Is the medical ailment, her own? noThe owner of the keys? yopeSomeone else? no Does it involve bleeding? no Aches/pains? no Something more serious? yes More long-term? yes
Does she do anything else to the keys? yesIs there something else in her fridge that is relevant? no
Do the other options she considers involve the keys being cold?posibly Hot?possibly Out of sight? yesish Somewhere she will see them while going about her business, in case she forgets about them? no
Does she put them in the fridge so she will remember to use them, e.g. at breakfast time? no
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Re: the Yope - do the keys belong to a couple, one of whom has the ailment? Do they not have the ailment yet, but she has foreseen that they will? Is the owner H? A? M?
Is it a guest in her house? Staying with her? Just stopped by briefly? A burglar? Have they lost their keys? Are they the keys to Veranelle's house, but not her own set? Is it a family member of hers? A lodger? Housemate?
If they are the keys to another house, is it relevant where?
Does Veranelle mistake them for her own keys?
The ailment: is it an illness? A disease? An injury? Is it life-threatening?
Are the keys to be used in assisting the ailment? Causing it?
Sorry for bombarding you, I keep thinking of more!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4249
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 225
Registered: 10-2005

Posted on Friday, May 01, 2009 - 10:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Re: the Yope - do the keys belong to a coupleno, one of whom has the ailment? no Do they not have the ailment yet, but she has foreseen that they will? noIs the owner H?yes A? yes M?yes
Is it a guest in her house? no Staying with her? yesishJust stopped by briefly? no A burglar? noHave they lost their keys? noish Are they the keys to Veranelle's house, but not her own set? yesIs it a family member of hers? yesA lodger? no Housemate? see previous answer but one
If they are the keys to another house, is it relevant where? f/a
Does Veranelle mistake them for her own keys? no
The ailment: is it an illness? yes A disease? yesAn injury? no Is it life-threatening? yes
Are the keys to be used in assisting the ailment? no Causing it? no
Sorry for bombarding you, I keep thinking of more! I LOVE to be bombarded. Thanks!! Please keep it up!! And how about turning your fertile mind to my other puzzles?
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not the greatest multi-tasker ever but I'll give them a look!

So the owner of the keys lives with Veranelle? Is she at odds with him for some reason? Is he her husband? Brother? Son? Father? And he has a life-threatening illness? That yope again: does he yopeishly own the keys? Or yopeishly have an illness?
Is this a standard refrigerator for storing groceries? Located in the kitchen of her house? Were her other options all based on what to do with the keys? Was she considering putting them elsewhere in her kitchen? In another room of the house? Outside? Giving them back to the owner? Doing nothing with them?
Do we need to determine the illness? Is it something contagious? Has he had it all his life? Is he elderly? Is he bed-ridden? In hospital?
Are there any relevant people other than these 2? Others who also live there?
Would the puzzle work if it was something other than keys?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4250
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Username: Strongplacebo

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2005

Posted on Saturday, May 02, 2009 - 1:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I'm not the greatest multi-tasker ever but I'll give them a look!I'm eagerly awaiting your questions on them & will be online for about 3 hours.

So the owner of the keys lives with Veranelle? yesIs she at odds with him for some reason? yesIs he her husband? Brother? Son? Father? Could be any of these, but I think of it as a husband. (It could be a woman too And he has a life-threatening illness? noThat yope again: does he yopeishly own the keys? noOr yopeishly have an illness?{bo, Look at the eaxt wording of your question about medical aliments}
Is this a standard refrigerator for storing groceries? yesLocated in the kitchen of her house? yesWere her other options all based on what to do with the keys? noWas she considering putting them elsewhere in her kitchen? yesIn another room of the house? yesOutside?no Giving them back to the owner? no Doing nothing with them? no
Do we need to determine the illness? yes Is it something contagious? noHas he had it all his life? no Is he elderly? probably but not necessarilyIs he bed-ridden? no In hospital? no
Are there any relevant people other than these 2?possibly Others who also live there? possibly
Would the puzzle work if it was something other than keys? yes
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 860
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is dementia involved?

is she actually trying to make him worse? trying to get him to admit that he's got a problem?

does she intend him to find the keys? someone else to?

could this puzzle equally read - she decided to put the spectacles in the fridge?

the other options she considered - did they include putting other objects in the fridge? putting the keys in other places?

is the relevance of the fridge that it is an unlikely place to put keys? to find keys?
that it is an unlikely place for him to look for anything?

is she trying to prove a point by doing this? are her intentions good? malicious? mischievous?

has he been looking for the keys? has he been looking in the fridge for something else?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Post Number: 31
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she want to cause her husband distress?
Would she achieve the same effect by putting the keys in the oven? Microwave? Freezer?
Did her husband lose the keys?
Is his illness life threatening?
Has she been planning on doing this or did she choose to put the keys in the fridge when she saw them?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Might her other options have been: to put the keys in the freezer? To put the keys in the oven? To melt the keys in a kiln? To throw the keys in a river? To smash the keys to pieces using a large sledgehammer?
To put something else in the refridgerator? Some other metal object? Some other sharp object? Some other object belonging to her husband?

If she hadn't put the keys in the refridgerator, would her husband's illness have gotten worse? better?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1697
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and... did she actually succeed in putting the house keys in the fridge? Or just decide that it would be a good idea?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 940
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she trying to help her husband in some way?

Under the same circumstances, would we also put our own keys in the refrigerator?

Does it matter exactly where in the refrigerator she puts them? For example, would they end up in the crisper? The butter dish? Is food relevant? Could the keys be put anywhere in the house, or just in the kitchen?

Are the location or time period relevant?

Is her husband aware that she intends to put his key in the fridge?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4253
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

New member
Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 860
Registered: 7-2001

Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is dementia involved? yes

is she actually trying to make him worse? no trying to get him to admit that he's got a problem?possibly

does she intend him to find the keys? possibly someone else to? possibly

could this puzzle equally read - she decided to put the spectacles in the fridge? yes

the other options she considered - did they include putting other objects in the fridge? yesputting the keys in other places? yes

is the relevance of the fridge that it is an unlikely place to put keys? yes to find keys? yes
that it is an unlikely place for him to look for anything? no

is she trying to prove a point by doing this? yesishare her intentions good? no malicious? yes mischievous? yes

has he been looking for the keys? possiblyhas he been looking in the fridge for something else? ditto
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Username: Pikachizzle

Post Number: 31
Registered: 5-2009

Posted on Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 10:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does she want to cause her husband distress? yesish
Would she achieve the same effect by putting the keys in the oven yes Microwave? yes Freezer? yes
Did her husband lose the keys? no
Is his illness life threatening?f/a
Has she been planning on doing this or did she choose to put the keys in the fridge when she saw them? the former
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Might her other options have been: to put the keys in the freezer? yes To put the keys in the oven? yes To melt the keys in a kiln? no To throw the keys in a river? no To smash the keys to pieces using a large sledgehammer? no
To put something else in the refridgerator? yesSome other metal object? possiblySome other sharp object? keys are not sharp & sharpnress is irrel Some other object belonging to her husband? yes

If she hadn't put the keys in the refridgerator, would her husband's illness have gotten worse?f/a better?\b} f/a}
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1697
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Oh, and... did she actually succeed in putting the house keys in the fridge? Or just decide that it would be a good idea?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 940
Registered: 5-2003

Posted on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 4:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she trying to help her husband in some way?

Under the same circumstances, would we also put our own keys in the refrigerator?

Does it matter exactly where in the refrigerator she puts them? no For example, would they end up in the crisper? possibly The butter dish? dittoIs food relevant? no Could the keys be put anywhere in the house no, or just in the kitchen? no

Are the location or time period relevant? yes

Is her husband aware that she intends to put his key in the fridge? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4254
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

osted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Oh, and... did she actually succeed in putting the house keys in the fridge? irrel Or just decide that it would be a good idea? see previous answer
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 940
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Posted on Friday, May 08, 2009 - 4:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is she trying to help her husband in some way? no

Under the same circumstances, would we also put our own keys in the refrigerator?yes
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 969
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific location relevant? If so, LTPF list of countries.

Is a general location relevant? If so, are terrain, climate, design/construction of the house or kitchen, or height above sea level relevant?

Is a specific time period relevant? If so, LTPF list of centuries.

Is a general time period relevant? If so, time of day, week, month, season of year?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4256
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 969
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Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 12:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is a specific location relevant? If so, LTPF list of countries. Any fairly developed country would work. (I don't know about undeveloped ones.)

Is a general location relevant? see previous answerIf so, are terrain, climate, design/construction of the house or kitchen, or height above sea level relevant? None of those factors is relevant

Is a specific time period relevant? If so, LTPF list of centuries.Any time after the mid-20th century would be fine. The earlier part of the century might work, too

Is a general time period relevant? If so, time of day, week, month, season of year? all those are irrel
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 974
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the time periods and locations you gave relevant simply because it is only at those times and locations that you would expect to see a refrigerator?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4259
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 974
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are the time periods and locations you gave relevant simply because it is only at those times and locations that you would expect to see a refrigerator? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 865
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does her husband actually have dementia? is he forgetful? does she want him to think he has dementia? does she want someone else to think that?

is this similar to the puzzle you did years ago about the eyebrow pencil (I bet not - your puzzles never repeat)

Is she trying to make him insane in some way? make him worried? make him seek medical attention?

is her desired outcome that he is distressed? that he gets diagnosed? misdiagnosed? gets admitted to hospital? gets removed from the home in some way? dies?

does she hope to benefit from putting the keys in the fridge? financially? does she want to have reason to take over his affairs? care of his money?

is his will relevant? does he have one? is she trying to prove him incompetent mentally to do something? make his will?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4263
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 865
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Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 9:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does her husband actually have dementia? no is he forgetful? no does she want him to think he has dementia? possibly does she want someone else to think that?The answer is yes foreither this question or the previous one (or both)

is this similar to the puzzle you did years ago about the eyebrow pencil (I bet not - your puzzles never repeat)It is similar in that she's trying to make him look demented, I'm afraid

Is she trying to make him insane in some way? nomake him worried? possiblymake him seek medical attention? no

is her desired outcome that he is distressed? see next answers that he gets diagnosed? yesmisdiagnosed? yes gets admitted to hospital? possibly gets removed from the home in some way? yesdies? possibly

does she hope to benefit from putting the keys in the fridge? yesfinancially? possiblydoes she want to have reason to take over his affairs? possiblycare of his money? ditto

is his will relevant? possiblydoes he have one? dittois she trying to prove him incompetent mentally to do something? ditto make his will? ditto

**************** SPOILER ***************
Clever Hannah triumphs again!! Veranelle is well aware that putting things in very bizarre & inappropriate places is considered a sign of dementia. For some irrelevant nefarious reason, she wants either that her husband believe that he is demented or that other people believe this. So she puts his keys in the refrigerator, intending to call his (or other people's) attention to this "lapse." Hannah is also correct that this is the second time I've a puzzle where someone wants to make a spouse appear demented. I thought the situations were different enough for this to be ok, but I was no match for Clever Hannah. She & all the rest of you should check out my new puszzle at the bottom of the page.

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