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Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 126
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoops, we thought they were communicating.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And I forgot my name again. Sorry, mods!
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they communicating? is this a quote? are walkie talkies relevant? they= humans? animals? did they give off the impression that they were communicating? we= 2 people? a group of people? is 404 relevant? is location? era? were there consequences for "we" assuming that they were communicating? did they, meaning "we" mistake communicating for some other action? fighting? im confused already....
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they communicating? nope. is this a quote? it's not an actual quote, no. More of a commentary on the situation. are walkie talkies relevant? no they= humans? this. animals? did they give off the impression that they were communicating? yes. we= 2 people? a group of people? this. is 404 relevant? Just my way of amusing myself. It won't help you solve the puzzle, no. is location? no era? somewhat were there consequences for "we" assuming that they were communicating? yes did they, meaning "we" mistake communicating for some other action? um... rephrase? fighting? im confused already....
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the group misinterpet the action of communitcating for another action? did the group of people speak a different language than the people they thought were communicating? by communicating did they mean talk? sign language? telethapy? touch? are the group of people co-workers? friends? family? did the group of people react when they thought they were communicating? were they not suppose to be communicating? were they in prison?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 131
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the group misinterpet the action of communitcating for another action? well, they weren't communicating. So no. did the group of people speak a different language than the people they thought were communicating? no by communicating did they mean talk? no sign language? telethapy? touch? this is closest are the group of people co-workers? friends? family? none of these did the group of people react when they thought they were communicating? yes were they not suppose to be communicating? incorrect were they in prison? no
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm so lost...so is everyone involved human? to clarify, the people reacted because they thought they were communicating? is react the correct word? did the group of people know eachother? were they spectators? .....thought they were communicating, they = 2 people? more than 2? more than 5? 10? 20? exact number relevant?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 134
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm so lost...so is everyone involved human? yes to clarify, the people reacted because they thought they were communicating? yes is react the correct word? it'll work did the group of people know eachother? irr were they spectators? define spectators......thought they were communicating, they = 2 people? more than 2? more than 5? 10? 20? more exact number relevant? no
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the group of people watching an event that "they" were in? was anyone murdered? if they had been communicating would this have been a bad thing? would it have signaled something?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 136
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the group of people watching an event that "they" were in? no was anyone murdered? no if they had been communicating would this have been a bad thing? no would it have signaled something? lol that's kind of what communicating means
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "they" also a group of people? 2 people? more than 2? 10? 50? 100? relevant exactly how many? does this take place during a war? specific battle? let me rephrase that last question in my last post....if "they" were actually communicating between themselves, would this signaled something for "we" other than the fact that they were communicating?. consequenses established eariler for "we" assuming that "they" were communicating= jail time? execution? fine? verbal warning? human lives? can we call "we" group 1 and "they" group 2???
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is "they" also a group of people? yes 2 people? more than 2? 10? 50? 100? more than 100 relevant exactly how many? no does this take place during a war? no specific battle? so no let me rephrase that last question in my last post....if "they" were actually communicating between themselves, would this signaled something for "we" other than the fact that they were communicating?. FA consequenses established eariler for "we" assuming that "they" were communicating= jail time? no execution? no fine? no verbal warning? no human lives? no can we call "we" group 1 and "they" group 2??? go for it
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to clarify, group 1 and 2 are both large groups of people? group 1 thinks group 2 is communicating? communicating to group two? or communicating between themselves? are the two groups close in proximity? was group 1's reaction due to the fact that they felt threatened? did group 1 think they were being attacked in some way? did both groups speak the same language?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to clarify, group 1 and 2 are both large groups of people? yes group 1 thinks group 2 is communicating? yes communicating to group two? you mean communicating to group 1? yes or communicating between themselves? no are the two groups close in proximity? irr, might be an FA lurking was group 1's reaction due to the fact that they felt threatened? no did group 1 think they were being attacked in some way? no did both groups speak the same language? difficult to answer... I'm going to go with yope
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that didn't provide much clairity. lol. if i'm repeating myself i'm sorry just don't understand. does group one think that group two is communicating with group one? group two? is there any braille involved? does either of the groups have a condition that hinders there ability to communicate? if so, group 1 or 2?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 148
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that didn't provide much clairity. lol. if i'm repeating myself i'm sorry just don't understand. does group one think that group two is communicating with group one? yes group two? no is there any braille involved? no does either of the groups have a condition that hinders there ability to communicate? yes if so, group 1 or 2 this?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they blind? deaf? mute? a combination of any of those?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they blind? no deaf? no mute? nothing wrong with their vocal cords, no a combination of any of those? no
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are these people in a coma?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 3:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are these people in a coma? no
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 6:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you've answered this -- would it be accurate to restate the puzzle statement as, "Whoops, we thought they were communicating with us"?

Were they gesticulating? Did we visually observe their actions that we mistook for communication attempts?

They were not communicating to others besides us, correct?

Touch was involved -- did they touch us? Each other? Other objects?

Did we take some action based on our belief that we thought they were communicating to us? A rescue effort? A hostile act? A friendly act?

Did this happen outdoors? Indoors?

Era is relevant - modern? In the last 100 years? Prior to that?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

good thinking Davesnothere. i'm lost on this one.
is group 2 dead? were they in water? i'm hoping that the titanic isn't involved? never know. daves rescue effort got me thinking.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere Thanks for joining in here! It always helps to have a few different minds on a puzzle.

I think you've answered this -- would it be accurate to restate the puzzle statement as, "Whoops, we thought they were communicating with us"? yes

Were they gesticulating? no Did we visually observe their actions that we mistook for communication attempts? no

They were not communicating to others besides us, correct? no

Touch was involved -- did they touch us? this Each other? Other objects? this too

Did we take some action based on our belief that we thought they were communicating to us? yes A rescue effort? this is closest, but beware mislead A hostile act? A friendly act?

Did this happen outdoors? Indoors? this

Era is relevant - modern? close to modern In the last 100 years? yes Prior to that? no


Sugarshane:

is group 2 dead? nope. No zombies, sorry were they in water? no i'm hoping that the titanic isn't involved? interesting thought, but no. never know. daves rescue effort got me thinking.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a barrier between the two groups? is group 2 patients or hospitalized? is group 2 under group 1s care in anyway?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a barrier between the two groups? not a physical barrier, no is group 2 patients or hospitalized? no is group 2 under group 1s care in anyway? yes
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a mental barrier? is group 2 able to speak? hear? see? so..group 1 thought group 2 was trying to communicate because members of group 2 were touching physically members of group 1? if they weren't communicating by touch, is it relevant what they were actually doing? is group 2 being held against their will? are group 1 doctors? soilders? police? teachers?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a mental barrier? yes is group 2 able to speak? yope hear? yes see? yes so..group 1 thought group 2 was trying to communicate because members of group 2 were touching physically members of group 1? there's more to it than that, but yes if they weren't communicating by touch, is it relevant what they were actually doing? yes is group 2 being held against their will? no are group 1 doctors? some of them soilders? no police? no teachers? some of them
John_w (John_w)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are members in group 2 babies? Mentally handicapped?
Are there others other than teachers and doctors in group 1?
Era-is it Pre/post 1950?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are members in group 2 babies? no Mentally handicapped? yes
Are there others other than teachers and doctors in group 1? yes
Era-is it Pre/post 1950 post?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is group two- all different ages? all have the same mental handicap? is there more professions in group 1 than doctors and teachers? can this happen in real life? lol trying to get familar with this puzzle again, its been awhile. are they in a certain type of building? hospital? school? institution? prison? is group 2 being studied? experimented on? are the other objects they touched relevant? did group 1 think all of group 2 was communicating? or just some? did group 1 previously touch group 2 or the objects and group 1 did not think they were communicating then? is there any kind of weather relevant? emergency? fire? water/flood?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 5:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is group two- all different ages? noish all have the same mental handicap? yes is there more professions in group 1 than doctors and teachers? yes can this happen in real life? it did happen in real life. But keep in mind that wikipedia is cheating. lol trying to get familar with this puzzle again, its been awhile. glad someone's still asking questions on this one, I think it's pretty interesting. are they in a certain type of building? no hospital? school? institution? prison? is group 2 being studied? no experimented on? yope are the other objects they touched relevant? did i actually say they were touching something else? I'm sorry, that was wrong. did group 1 think all of group 2 was communicating? this or just some? did group 1 previously touch group 2 or the objects and group 1 did not think they were communicating then? I'm confused, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. is there any kind of weather relevant? emergency? fire? water/flood? no to all
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there some kind of reaction or force that moved the group or jerked them to make the people touch them. to clairify, they are in a building?and it is not relevant as to which kind of building they are in?


btw, i'm blind and never saw that response. i was thinking that you were a little older than i am and you thought i was really young. i got a kick out of it. also, me, cheat, really? not my style. i never get on wikipedia anyway. come on... first you think im a kid, now a cheat..whats next? totally joking ;)
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there some kind of reaction or force that moved the group or jerked them to make the people touch them. no to clairify, they are in a building? there's really no way to answer this without encouraging an FA and it is not relevant as to which kind of building they are in? more FA


btw, i'm blind and never saw that response. i was thinking that you were a little older than i am and you thought i was really young. i got a kick out of it. also, me, cheat, really? not my style. i never get on wikipedia anyway. come on... first you think im a kid, now a cheat..whats next? totally joking ;) :-) So if I'm 19 and thinking you're my age means I think you're a kid, does that mean I'm a kid? Come on, man, cut me some slack!
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Posted on Thursday, July 30, 2009 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the people from either group in different places? Even different countries, maybe?

Is group 2 something along the lines of "people affected by handicap X"? Is group 1 "people studying group 2"? "People curing group 2"?

Do we have to find out the nature of the mental handicap?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the people from either group in different places? yes Even different countries, maybe? I honestly don't know, I think it was mostly an American thing, but could be.

Is group 2 something along the lines of "people affected by handicap X"? yes Is group 1 "people studying group 2"? yope "People curing group 2"? no(ish)

Do we have to find out the nature of the mental handicap? it could help
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, July 31, 2009 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll be back August 17th, but feel free to leave me questions in the meantime.
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the handicap affect your ability to speak? Understand written language? Spoken language? Interpret pictures? Move your arms? Legs? Other parts of your body? Does it result in a lower IQ? Does it affect any of your senses? If so, please insert the LTPF list of senses. Is it associated with chromosomal abnormalities?

Have a nice holiday :-)
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 3:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm back!

Does the handicap affect your ability to speak? yes Understand written language? yes Spoken language? yes Interpret pictures? maybe Move your arms? no Legs? no Other parts of your body? no Does it result in a lower IQ? not always Does it affect any of your senses? no If so, please insert the LTPF list of senses. Is it associated with chromosomal abnormalities? I believe there's some debate about that. Also, the yeses above are things that can happen, but I think it varies a lot from case to case

Have a nice holiday :-) Thanks! I did!
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is group 2 traveling? on a bus? plane? van? boat?other vehicle? are the special olympics involved? is group one watching group two on tv? with there on eyes? online? in a picture? news paper?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is group 2 traveling? some of them probably traveled at some point... irr on a bus? plane? van? boat?other vehicle? are the special olympics involved? no is group one watching group two on tv? no with there on eyes? this online? in a picture? news paper? could be some of this
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The reason my answers to questions about the two groups have been vague is that, as Arek_Fu figured out, group one is just a set of people with a certain mental handicap. Group two is not really a cohesive group, because pretty much everyone who knew about it thought they were communicating. What you're trying to figure out is what this group of mentally handicapped individuals, who normally are unable to communicate, was doing, and why it was generally believed to be communication.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did group 2 think group 1 was "waking up?" does group one have a mental handicap that makes them unconscious? have their eyes closed? do something they normally wouldn't do? or are incapable of doing? did something cause these people to move? react? is the touching involved due by group 1 intentional? are the normally able to touch another person with their condition?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did group 2 think group 1 was "waking up?" this concept doesn't apply does group one have a mental handicap that makes them unconscious? have their eyes closed? do something they normally wouldn't do? none of these or are incapable of doing? yes, they are incapable of functioning normally on several different levels, including communication did something cause these people to move? this react? and this, explore is the touching involved due by group 1 intentional? yes are the normally able to touch another person with their condition? yes
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they confined in anyway? so group 2 reacted to something and then group 1 reacted to group 2's action thinking they were communicating by touch.? they reacted to something- something they were afraid of? a disaster? a weather event? earthquake? a fire? a threat? medicine? so group 2 is indoors and theres 100ish of them? are they all in the same location? was this before 1950? after? is technology relevant? are they in a man made structure? a natural structure? are they in the U.S.? Another country? relevant? Being treated? studied? examined? tortured? is electricity relevant? water?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they confined in anyway? no so group 2 reacted to something and then group 1 reacted to group 2's action thinking they were communicating by touch.? essentially, yes. although there's more to the whole "communicating by touch" thing. they reacted to something- something they were afraid of? a disaster? a weather event? earthquake? a fire? a threat? medicine? none of these so group 2 is indoors and theres 100ish of them? exact numbers are irrelevant. Group two, as you've defined it, is just the set of people who thought group one was communicating, and that's a very large group. The people who were directly involved have more in common, but it's still not one coherent group the way you're thinking are they all in the same location? no was this before 1950? after? this is technology relevant? yes are they in a man made structure? a natural structure? are they in the U.S.? Another country? relevant? after some research, I guess it didn't start in the US. It would work in pretty much any non third-world country, though. Being treated? sort of studied? yes examined? yes tortured? no is electricity relevant? water? no to these
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the communicating by touch thing- direct touching? with their hands? fingers? feet? tongue? did they use a machine of some kind to do the touching? so group two is not all in the same place? are all of their conditions the same? i wish i had more time to devote to this puzzle but i'm really busy lately. i am not giving up but i feel like i am far from solving this???
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the communicating by touch thing- direct touching? yes with their hands? this fingers? feet? tongue? did they use a machine of some kind to do the touching? not exactly, but there was a machine involved so group two is not all in the same place? no are all of their conditions the same? for the purposes of this puzzle, you can think of group two as homogenous i wish i had more time to devote to this puzzle but i'm really busy lately. i am not giving up but i feel like i am far from solving this??? There are still a few steps to go, but you're making progress. I appreciate you sticking with this.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they use a machine to move? are powered wheelchairs relevant? so group 2 is not related other than the fact that they are all being treated for the same condition more or less? they aren't in the same location? they aren't under the same peoples care? could the puzzle statement have been made by anyone? someone that was involved? could this person simply have seen this on tv or in the newspaper and said that?(although i know you said in was more like commentary and not a statement) was this testing done to everyone that had this condition? was group 2 actually benefiting from their treatment? or was their reaction merely a side effect leading one to believe that it was working? if they hadn't been being studied or treated would they still have been the same reaction?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you said there was consequences for group one assuming that group two was communicating- did these consequences include-fatalities? illness? financial loss? negative attention? loss of jobs? did the false assumption have negative consequences for group 1? group 2? both? so once group 1 thought group 2 was communicating did they do something at that point that caused negative consequences? before then? after? did they stop giving them treatment because the assumed they were cured? did group 1 mistakenly interpret the communication as a cry for help? is there a computer involved? was there a malfunction of the machine or cpu?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they use a machine to move? are powered wheelchairs relevant? irr so group 2 is not related other than the fact that they are all being treated for the same condition more or less? true they aren't in the same location? no they aren't under the same peoples care? no could the puzzle statement have been made by anyone? anyone who was aware of the situation someone that was involved? could this person simply have seen this on tv or in the newspaper and said that?(although i know you said in was more like commentary and not a statement) was this testing done to everyone that had this condition? no, but don't get hung up on this. It was just something that was popular for a while. was group 2 actually benefiting from their treatment? it wasn't exactly treatment, and no. or was their reaction merely a side effect leading one to believe that it was working? getting warmer... if they hadn't been being studied or treated would they still have been the same reaction? well, then it wouldn't be a "reaction," now would it? :-)

you said there was consequences for group one assuming that group two was communicating- did these consequences include-fatalities? no illness? no financial loss? possibly negative attention? yes loss of jobs? yes did the false assumption have negative consequences for group 1? group 2? both? this so once group 1 thought group 2 was communicating did they do something at that point that caused negative consequences? this before then? after? did they stop giving them treatment because the assumed they were cured? no did group 1 mistakenly interpret the communication as a cry for help? Yes. You probably don't need to explore this angle anymore, since that's pretty much it, and it's not central to solving the puzzle. is there a computer involved? yope was there a malfunction of the machine or cpu? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll take a stab at this one(:
Were group 2 grabbing/grasping with their hands? Hitting? Stroking? Squeezing? Were they doing it to members of group 1? To others as well/to each other?

Was what group 2 were doing a reflex, but group 1 thought it was conscious? Was the action triggered by something group 1 did? If so, should we figure out what group 1 did to provoke this response? Were they testing group 2? Using a machine?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll take a stab at this one(: Excellent, fresh blood always helps. Welcome!
Were group 2 grabbing/grasping with their hands? this, and something else Hitting? Stroking? Squeezing? Were they doing it to members of group 1? only this To others as well/to each other?

Was what group 2 were doing a reflex, but group 1 thought it was conscious? no Was the action triggered by something group 1 did? yes, and this is definitely ORT (on the right track) If so, should we figure out what group 1 did to provoke this response? yes, although you probably need to figure out the basic communication method first Were they testing group 2? noish Using a machine? but yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Sunday, September 27, 2009 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So group 2 were grabbing and [another thing] members of group 1 when group 1 did [something] to them, correct? Was the other thing done with the hands while grabbing? Like pulling? Or was it something else they did, like make eye contact? Make a sound?
Was group 1 trying to communicate with group 2? Were they using the machine to do whatever it was they did? Or was the machine used to measure something? Or both? Was the machine some sort of medical equipment? You said it was somehting that was popular for a while, do you mean the machine, or just the thing group 1 was doing? Could what they were doing be called a "method"?
Was pain inflicted on group 2 by group 1?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So group 2 were grabbing and [another thing] members of group 1 when group 1 did [something] to them, correct? okay, the physical contact was limited to grabbing, but it wasn't like sign language for the deaf or anything. The grabbing was part of a larger process. Was the other thing done with the hands while grabbing? Like pulling? Or was it something else they did, like make eye contact? Make a sound? none of these
Was group 1 trying to communicate with group 2? yes Were they using the machine to do whatever it was they did? yes Or was the machine used to measure something? no Or both? Was the machine some sort of medical equipment? no You said it was somehting that was popular for a while, do you mean the machine, or just the thing group 1 was doing? the supposed method of communication Could what they were doing be called a "method"? so yes
Was pain inflicted on group 2 by group 1? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why did the groups switch number in the middle of the puzzle?

So group 2 was trying to communicate with group 1 using a machine? Group 1 responded to this attempt, but the response was not communication? Was the response conscious? Are group 1 conscious? Is their condition permanent? Were they born with it? Is it a purely mental handicap (nothing relevant injured/deformed/missing except in the brain)?
Does group 1 communicate with others under other circumstances? Did group 2 think they had discovered a method of getting though to them? Is group 1 autistic?

Does the machine provide visual stimuli to group 1? Audible? Touch? Smell? Taste? Movement? Vibration? Electrical? Chemical? Was it/could it be used on more than one peron at a time?
Could it be used on a healthy person? Would it be meaningful to do so? Was it translating one form of communication to another?
Do healthy people use the supposed method of communication?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why did the groups switch number in the middle of the puzzle? sorry, i've been trying to keep track of that. Group 2 is "they," and "they" were not, in fact, communicating. Group 1 is "we," and "we" were attempting a new method of communication with group 2, which "we" believed was successful, but it was not. There was a response from "they" that resembled communication. Hope that helps.

So group 2 was trying to communicate with group 1 using a machine? Group 1 responded to this attempt, but the response was not communication? Was the response conscious? yes Are group 1 conscious? yes (I'm assuming for the rest of these that you're referring to the opposite groups.) Is their condition permanent? yes Were they born with it? no one really knows, assume yes Is it a purely mental handicap (nothing relevant injured/deformed/missing except in the brain)? yes
Does group 1 communicate with others under other circumstances? no, or at least not in an organized way Did group 2 think they had discovered a method of getting though to them? yes Is group 1 autistic? YES. The disorder is severe autism, which severely restricts communication. Now then...

Does the machine provide visual stimuli to group 1? hard to answer. noish Audible? no Touch? touch is involved, but not as a stimulus Smell? Taste? Movement? Vibration? Electrical? Chemical? no to the rest Was it/could it be used on more than one person at a time? no
Could it be used on a healthy person? yes Would it be meaningful to do so? it would be possible to communicate that way, but there would be no reason to do so Was it translating one form of communication to another? what do you mean?
Do healthy people use the supposed method of communication? no
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Friday, October 09, 2009 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so there was medical testing/treatment of some kind going on with the autistic people? we're the autistic people all institutionalized? was this a popular method of treatment for a short time? are any drugs/medications relevant? were all of these people hooked up to machines of some sort? to help them communicate? breath? eat? did they react all in the same way which led the public to believe the treatment was working? is there a touch screen involved? brain waves relevant?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so there was medical testing/treatment of some kind going on with the autistic people? yes we're the autistic people all institutionalized? no was this a popular method of treatment for a short time? not treatment. It was supposed to be a way to get them to communicate their needs and such. are any drugs/medications relevant? no were all of these people hooked up to machines of some sort? no to help them communicate? breath? eat? did they react all in the same way which led the public to believe the treatment was working? yesish is there a touch screen involved? no, it was too early for that kind of technology, but this is very ORT! brain waves relevant? no
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything got to do with the 404 error I keep getting?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lol no! I just figured that 404 is a pretty good title for a puzzle about failure to communicate.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thats what i was thinking when i asked if the title was relevant

were the autistic people being treated the same way as people with a different handicap? were these people misdiagnosed? anything to do with blinking eyes to communicate like blink once for yes...? get what i'm saying there? any of these things relevant= calculator? writing utensils? wheelchairs? computers? ventalators? bell? was whatever they touched a communtication device of any kind? did they all touch the same thing?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thats what i was thinking when i asked if the title was relevant Yeah, it's just not relevant in the sense that it gives you any helpful puzzle solving info

were the autistic people being treated the same way as people with a different handicap? as far as I know, it was just people with autism were these people misdiagnosed? no anything to do with blinking eyes to communicate like blink once for yes...? no get what i'm saying there? yes, but I think that's mostly for paralyzed people who are still mentally in control. any of these things relevant= calculator? writing utensils? wheelchairs? computers? for simplicity's sake, I'll say it would have worked just as well with part of this ventalators? bell? was whatever they touched a communtication device of any kind? yes did they all touch the same thing? yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the autistic people pushing buttons? Or pointing at symbols? Were they shown images/objects? Lights?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the autistic people pushing buttons? this is closest, but keep in mind they weren't actually touching anything except the members of group 1. Or pointing at symbols? Were they shown images/objects? Lights? no to the rest
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think the autists were communicating basic needs? Or something more complex?
Were the autists touching: Clothing? Hands? Face? Did group 1 think different (ways? areas?) of touch meant different things?
Was the machine showing them things? Was it a viewscreen?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think the autists were communicating basic needs? mostly this, pretty much irr Or something more complex?
Were the autists touching: Clothing? Hands? this Face? Did group 1 think different (ways? areas?) of touch meant different things? no...
Was the machine showing them things? Was it a viewscreen? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were G2 grabbing the hands of G1 and moving them somewhere? If so: Somewhere on the machine? somewhere on their own body? somewhere on G1's body? (Appearing to) making/trying to make them do something? Something with the machine?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were G2 grabbing the hands of G1 and moving them somewhere? yes! If so: Somewhere on the machine? this somewhere on their own body? somewhere on G1's body? no to these (Appearing to) making/trying to make them do something? yope Something with the machine? yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the machine dispense anything, like a vending machine? Food? Are G2 moving G1s hands to (symbols? pictures? buttons/levers?) on the machine?
Any relation between this machine, and the machines used in experiments on communication with great apes?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the machine dispense anything, like a vending machine? Food? no Are G2 moving G1s hands to (symbols? this pictures? buttons/levers?) on the machine?
Any relation between this machine, and the machines used in experiments on communication with great apes? I don't know which machines those would be, but my guess is no. This is a machine you've heard of, I promise.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there any specific symbol on the machine that is relevant? would the symbol be considered negative? positive? informative? is there more than one symbol? is a ventilator or breathing machine relevant? I.V.? is electricity relevant? typewriter? so just so i have it straight, the autistic people, all of which are in different locations, all grabbed someones hand(unintentionally) moving it towards the same kind of machine that has a symbol(s) on it?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh oh, read this whole thing again and think i have it, if i don't i'm totally lost.

These people are holding their hands to help them write and or type? this method is questionable because it could be argued that the person holding the hand could have influenced what was being written or typed causing alot of false communication. i'm gonna say typed because the typewriter must be the machine, right?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there any specific symbol on the machine that is relevant? no would the symbol be considered negative? positive? informative? is there more than one symbol? is a ventilator or breathing machine relevant? I.V.? is electricity relevant? typewriter? exactly! so just so i have it straight, the autistic people, all of which are in different locations, all grabbed someones hand(unintentionally) moving it towards the same kind of machine that has a symbol(s) on it? pretty much

These people are holding their hands to help them write and or type? bingo this method is questionable because it could be argued that the person holding the hand could have influenced what was being written or typed causing alot of false communication. yes. It's a bit more specific than that, but this puzzle's been going for awhile, so if you want to finish the last bit, let me know, otherwise I'll $poil. i'm gonna say typed because the typewriter must be the machine, right? right
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 7:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i'm cool with you finishing it off. it has been up a long time now. i'm satisfied. Great puzzle!!!
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

**************SPOILER******************

This was a technique known as facilitated communication, based on the idea that severely autistic individuals had latent communicative abilities that they were unable to express independently. Caretakers would go to special training to learn to interpret slight hand movements by their autistic charges in order to "guide" their hands to typewriter keys. It got fairly serious when some of the autistic charges started to accuse their caretakers of rape using this method. After a lot of double blind experiments, it turns out that there was essentially a ouija board effect. The caretakers were so primed to expect coherent communication that even though they honestly believed they were not controlling their charges' movements at all, they only responded to those movements that were toward the keys they expected. The case now appears in a lot of psych textbooks as an example of the power of expectations. Thanks so much to Sugarshane for sticking with it for so long, and Galfisk for stepping in to fill in a few of the blanks near the end!

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