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Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4432
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many murder mysteries put forth a very questionable view about murderers. This view is generally endorsed by character who is supposed to be reliable. What is it??
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1165
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Many murder mysteries = Mysteries in general, or a specific series? Can this be found in Conan Doyle mysteries? Agatha Christie? Raymond Chandler? Science fiction? Fantasy? "Cozy," hard-bitten, or "puzzler"-type mysteries?

Reliable character = the detective? The detective's assistant? The police?

Is it the view that every murderer makes mistakes and can be brought to justice, whereas most murders in reality go unsolved?

Or is it that the murderer always knows the victim? Or that he is always the least likely suspect, the last person you'd expect?

Is the view moralistic?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4439
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 1165
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 6:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Many murder mysteries = Mysteries in general, or a specific series? I often see this view expressed in murder mysteries, but it's not assopciated with a specific series Can this be found in Conan Doyle mysteries? I don't know Agatha Christie? yesRaymond Chandler? I don't know Science fiction? I don't see why it would be, but I almost never read sci fi so I'm hardly an expertFantasy? ditto"Cozy," hard-bitten, or "puzzler"-type mysteries? probably all

Reliable character = the detective? The detective's assistant? The police? It could be any of these

Is it the view that every murderer makes mistakes and can be brought to justice, whereas most murders in reality go unsolved? no

Or is it that the murderer always knows the victim? no Or that he is always the least likely suspect, the last person you'd expect? no

Is the view moralistic? yes
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 266
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh, interesting.

Does it have to do with the motives of murderers? About who they kill? About how many they kill? With the flaws in their plans? With their ability to think ahead, or 20/20 hindsight? Something about their natural tendency to become violent?

Is it always the same reliable character (or type of character) who endorses the viewpoint? If so, the detective? the victim? the policeman? The eyewitness?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea of committing more crimes to prevent being convicted of one's original crime relevant? The idea of making someone else looking guilty?

Is the view of murderers in question more negative than it should be? More positive?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4444
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 266
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 10:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Ooh, interesting.

Does it have to do with the motives of murderers? no About who they kill? yes About how many they kill? yes With the flaws in their plans? no With their ability to think ahead, or 20/20 hindsight? noSomething about their natural tendency to become violent? noish

Is it always the same reliable character (or type of character) who endorses the viewpoint? no If so, the detective? the victim? the policeman? The eyewitness?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2009

Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 8:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the idea of committing more crimes to prevent being convicted of one's original crime relevant?yesish The idea of making someone else looking guilty? no

Is the view of murderers in question more negative than it should be? Yes, although I realize that this sounds a bit ridiculous, since, obviously, the view of murderers should be negative. More positive? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 900
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it the view that, once a person has committed murder once they will be quite at ease with committing more? that a murderer does not regret committing murder? that serial killers are much more common than they actually are? whereas in actual fact most murders are single cases?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4446
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 900
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 10:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is it the view that, once a person has committed murder once they will be quite at ease with committing more? yes that a murderer does not regret committing murder? nothat serial killers are much more common than they actually are? see previous answer but one whereas in actual fact most murders are single cases? see previous answer

*********** SPOILER **************
People in murder mysteries often comment that once someone has committed murder, he has crossed a line & is apt to resort to murder whenever he gets in a jam. I find this very implausible. Believe it or nor, I have no first-hand insights into the mind of any murderer. But I occasionally tell lies. Who doesn't? I don't resort to lying every time I get into a jam, though, & I know many other similarly occasional & reluctant liars. Sorry it was so easy, but there's a new & I think harder one you-know-where.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4453
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Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, I read somewhere that the murder of a person one knows (as opposed to murders by hitman or serial killers) is the crime with the lowest recidivism rate.
Kalira (Kalira)
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Username: Kalira

Post Number: 196
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps because once one murders someone he or she knows, nobody wants to know that person any longer? :-\
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4457
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Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since everyone knows plenty of people he does not want to know, I think the explanation is more likely that most murderers don't encounter more than once the sort of drastic situation they think calls for (!!) murder.
Kalira (Kalira)
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Username: Kalira

Post Number: 197
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bah! You're inserting logic in this situation?! :-D
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4459
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On the LTPF? Horrors!
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Username: Buzzard

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not the world's expert on murders or murder mysteries, but I thought the reasoning behind the idea that murderers "cross a line" is that the penalty for two murders isn't that much worse than the penalty for one murder, so someone who's already committed one murder might feel that he doesn't have much to lose by committing another. So if, for example, he feels that committing the second murder might help him avoid getting caught for the first, he's likely to go ahead and do it. But as I said, I don't know. If, instead, these supposedly reliable murder mystery characters explain it in some sort of moral terms - that committing murder turns you into an irredeemably immoral person, and that that's why murderers are likely to murder again, then I agree with you that that's very questionable.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4463
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're right--I wasn't thinking of committing another murder to escape detection for the first but more like: if you kill your spouse for money, will you later, when you run out of money, kill again for this reason?

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