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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4656
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As long-term forum members know, a passive scrund is a scrund you never really thought about & that you discover you had when you are surprised to learn that something you have taken for granted is false. I recently discovered that I had a passive scrund about health. I bet that many of you have it, too. What is it?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 114
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is gender relevant? If so, does it pertain to M? F?

Is the scrund about a lifestyle choice? If yes, something that is healthy? Something that is unhealthy? Something you thought was healthy but isn't? Something you thought was unhealthy but isn't?

Is it about health research? Health food? Dieting? Genetics?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 12:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is gender relevant? no If so, does it pertain to M? F?

Is the scrund about a lifestyle choice? noIf yes, something that is healthy? Something that is unhealthy? Something you thought was healthy but isn't? Something you thought was unhealthy but isn't?

Is it about health research? no Health food? no Dieting? noGenetics? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it about your personal health? (e.g. how in shape you are, how likely you are to get a certain disease, how well you eat, etc.) Or health in general?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 9:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it about your personal health? (e.g. how in shape you are, how likely you are to get a certain disease, how well you eat, etc.) It's not specifically about MY personal health Or health in general? yesish
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 6:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the scrund pertain to a specific medical condition? a specific demographic group?

Is it about which people are healthy or unhealthy in a particular way? advice on maintaining health? consumer products that are marketed as being healthy? the practice of medicine?

***BTW, I was actually listening to a program on National Public Radio today about the connection between exercise and health, and several people asked questions on the show that revealed scrunds about the benefits of exercise***
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 6:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the scrund pertain to a specific medical condition? no a specific demographic group? yes

Is it about which people are healthy or unhealthy in a particular way? no advice on maintaining health? no consumer products that are marketed as being healthy? no the practice of medicine? no

***BTW, I was actually listening to a program on National Public Radio today about the connection between exercise and health, and several people asked questions on the show that revealed scrunds about the benefits of exercise** So turn them into puzzles!!
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 155
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Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the demographic group rich? poor? middle class? black? white? hispanic? asian? another race? college educated? high school graduate? high school dropout? urban? suburban? rural?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 2:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the demographic group rich? poor? middle class? black? white? hispanic? asian? another race? college educated? high school graduate? high school dropout? urban? suburban? rural?All these factors are irrel!!
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the demographic group a specific age group?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 11:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the demographic group a specific age group? yes
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

babies? children? teens? college age? young adult? middle age? older?

Is the length of one's lifespan relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 2:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
babies? nochildren? no teens? no college age? noyoung adult? no middle age? noolder? Older than whom?Do you mean old people? If so, the answer is yes

Is the length of one's lifespan relevant? yes
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant older than all of the other ages listed, so yes, of course I meant old people. =)

Was your scrund about some action increasing lifespan? Not changing lifespan? Decreasing lifespan?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 10:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I meant older than all of the other ages listed, so yes, of course I meant old people. =) Sorry, I was just being a "language Nazi." People sometimes use 'older people' as a euphemism for 'old people' & that sets my teeth on edge.

Was your scrund about some action increasing lifespan? no Not changing lifespan? noDecreasing lifespan? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about some effect of a long lifespan on health? Perhaps that old people are less healthy in a certain specific way than young people?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 2:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the scrund about some effect of a long lifespan on health? yesishPerhaps that old people are less healthy in a certain specific way than young people? yesish or yope
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Gonna try to avoid "old people"... let's see how I do.) Does it have to do with the average number of medications the elderly are taking? Does it have to do with the amount of money it costs the average AARP member? Do retired people actually do fewer good things for their health when they need to be most concerned? Does the secret to becoming an old fart have absolutely nothing to do with diet/exercise/smoking habits? Have you seen the new Julie&Julia movie? (Julia Child lived to be 91 eating more butter than some countries' GDP). Is the new health care bill/plan relevant to this conversation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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(Gonna try to avoid "old people"... let's see how I do.)What's wrong with the clear & accurate phrase 'old people'? Does it have to do with the average number of medications the elderly are taking? no Does it have to do with the amount of money it costs the average AARP member? noDo retired people actually do fewer good things for their health when they need to be most concerned? I have no idea, but it's irrelDoes the secret to becoming an old fart have absolutely nothing to do with diet/exercise/smoking habits? I have no idea but it's irrel. Hmmm, "old fart"? Do you also use the "N-word"?Sorry. couldn't resist! I don't want to get into an argument about ageism, a much less interesting activity that working on puzzles!Have you seen the new Julie&Julia movie? no (Julia Child lived to be 91 eating more butter than some countries' GDP). Is the new health care bill/plan relevant to this conversation? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Health insurance relevant? Medicare?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Health insurance relevant? no Medicare? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the scrund is not: people who do X live longer. Right?

Is it in the form: people who live longer do X?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 8:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the scrund is not: people who do X live longer. Right? yes', you're right

Is it in the form: people who live longer do X? yes
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clarification: People who live longer do X when? During the years while they're living longer than average (while they're the oldest of the old people =) )? During their entire life? Their entire adult life? After they've reached old age?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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BLOOPERRRATERTTTTTT!
Is it in the form: people who live longer do X? yes. THE ANSWER SHOULD BE YESISH

Clarification: People who live longer do X when? During the years while they're living longer than average (while they're the oldest of the old people =) )? yesish During their entire life? not part of the scrundTheir entire adult life? dotto After they've reached old age?yope
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it: People who live longer don't do X?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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Is it: People who live longer don't do X?noish, "People who live longer do X" is closer but still a yesish rather than a yes
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the scrund relate to the health of old people? are they healthier than you thought? less healthy?
does it relate to the likelihood of old people getting disease? a particular disease?
is healthcare relevant? euthanasia? cost of healthcare? choices about healthcare? benefits of treatment?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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does the scrund relate to the health of old people? yes are they healthier than you thought? yopeless healthy? yope
does it relate to the likelihood of old people getting disease? just about health in generral a particular disease? no
is healthcare relevant? no euthanasia? no cost of healthcare? nochoices about healthcare? nobenefits of treatment? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

People who live longer go to X? ...think X? ... say X? ...are X?

People who live longer are happier?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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People who live longer go to X? no ...think X? no ... say X? no ...are X? yesish

People who live longer are happier? no
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

People who live longer are healthier? (Which, most aren't... After all, 30% over age 85 have Alzheimers, yes? And the 90ish-year-old Julia Childs ate a stick of butter with nearly every meal).
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is X in this scenario related to: actions done to old people? actions done by old people? beliefs? thoughts? wants? needs? family structure? friends? emotions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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People who live longer are healthier? yes(Which, most aren't... After all, 30% over age 85 have Alzheimers, yes? I think so, but there's STILL a way in which people who live longer are healthier. Find out what it is. And the 90ish-year-old Julia Childs ate a stick of butter with nearly every meal). Well, it didn't seem to have hurt her any. Maybe she took statins, like me (although I don't get a stick of butter with every meal, alas).
Noel (Noel)
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Is X in this scenario related to: actions done to old people? actions done by old people? beliefs? thoughts? wants? needs? family structure? friends? emotions? none of these!!
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But you only said "yesish" to "people who live longer are X," but "yes" to "people who live longer are healthier." Is the original "yesish" because the sentence is incomplete? Should it be "People who live longer are healthier because ____"?

Also, I'm confused. Was your scrund that you thought people who live longer were healtheir, when they're actually not? Or was your scrund thinking that those people are less healthy, when in fact they actually are healthier?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 7:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
But you only said "yesish" to "people who live longer are X," but "yes" to "people who live longer are healthier." Is the original "yesish" because the sentence is incomplete? Should it be "People who live longer are healthier because ____"? No, the discrepancy is a BLOOOPERRALERTTTTTTTTTTTT!! Both are on the borderline between'yes' & 'yesish'

Also, I'm confused. Was your scrund that you thought people who live longer were healtheir, when they're actually not? noOr was your scrund thinking that those people are less healthy, when in fact they actually are healthier? yes, but you need to find out just who is healthier than whom ( I mean groups, not individuals)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fact that women usually live longer than men relevant? Or that certain races are seen as having longer lifespans than others?
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Married??? Is this about single vs. married people? I.e. Married men are healthier and live longer? HOWEVER, on average, married women don't live as long (Childbirth deaths, stress, oppression, beatings, executions) as single women?

Yes, folks, the men suck the life right out of us.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the fact that women usually live longer than men relevant? no Or that certain races are seen as having longer lifespans than others? no
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Married??? no Is this about single vs. married people? noI.e. Married men are healthier and live longer? irrelHOWEVER, on average, married women don't live as long (Childbirth deaths, stress, oppression, beatings, executions "Executions? What percentage of married women gewt EXECUTED??!!) as single women? irrel

Yes, folks, the men suck the life right out of us.
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess I'm still a tad confused by what it is we're trying to figure out... is the scrund: "People who live longer are healthier"? Or perhaps "Healthy people live longer"?

Or is there a scrund about a quality? a habit? a trait? of certain people who happen to live longer? I.e. They drink a glass of wine each day? [Or does this trait ACTUALLY help them live longer? Be healthier?]
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I guess I'm still a tad confused by what it is we're trying to figure out... is the scrund: "People who live longer are healthier"? Or perhaps "Healthy people live longer"?You need to identify a fact about health & old age that is surprising--in fact, the opposite of whtat people would expect--but understandable once you think about it."Healthy people live longer" is hardly surprising, but there's a closely related scrund, which you should identify.

Or is there a scrund about a quality? no a habit? noa trait? no of certain people who happen to live longer? I.e. They drink a glass of wine each day? no[Or does this trait ACTUALLY help them live longer? irrel Be healthier? ditto]
Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the definition of "healthy" something we need to explore here? Is there something about "living longer" we need to explore? Quality of life relevant? Is there something that happens related to "old age" that needs exploring? Something that deteriorates? Something that improves? (i.e. Nerves regenerating after 25+ years)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dlcygnet (Dlcygnet)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the definition of "healthy" something we need to explore here? no Is there something about "living longer" we need to explore? yes Quality of life relevant? just healthIs there something that happens related to "old age" that needs exploring? yesish Something that deteriorates? yopeSomething that improves? no(i.e. Nerves regenerating after 25+ years)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is memory relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is memory relevant?Health in general is relevant, not any specific aspect.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hnt: The scrund involves a comparison.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A comparison other than the implied comparison we've already been using? i.e. People who live longer are healthier (than people who live shorter)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
A comparison other than the implied comparison we've already been using? i.e. People who live longer are healthier (than people who live shorter)? Yes. You should identify 2 comparison groups, e.g. Northerners vs. Southerners (although of course those are not the groups!)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it something like
"Group A is healthier than group B" where Group A is the group that lives longer?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Following on from Noel's question, with Group A being the healthier group and Group B the unhealthier group.

Do the two comparison groups partition the population? (ie, is everyone either in group A or group B)
If not (or, actually, even if so...) - what percentage of people are in group A: 5%? 10? 20? 50? 70?
What percentage of people are in group B? 5? 10? 20? 50? 70?

Are you in Group A? Group B? Do you think it likely that I am?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 2:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So is it something like
"Group A is healthier than group B" where Group A is the group that lives longer? yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Following on from Noel's question, with Group A being the healthier group and Group B the unhealthier group.

Do the two comparison groups partition the population? no(ie, is everyone either in group A or group B)
If not (or, actually, even if so...) - what percentage of people are in group A: 5%? less than 5% 10? 20? 50? 70?
What percentage of people are in group B? 5? probably lkess than 5% (although I'm not sure of that)10? 20? 50? 70?

Are you in Group A? no
Group B? noDo you think it likely that I am? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason that each group is such a small percentage of the population because the two groups only include old people?

Are all old people included in either group A or group B? Or are the percentages of old people in each group comparable to the percentages in the population as a whole?

Is it possible to be a member of both groups, or are they mutually exclusive?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 2:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the reason that each group is such a small percentage of the population because the two groups only include old people? yes

Are all old people included in either group A or group B? no Or are the percentages of old people in each group comparable to the percentages in the population as a whole? yes

Is it possible to be a member of both groups no, or are they mutually exclusive yes?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it's still only ~ less than 5% of old people in each group?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 6:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So it's still only ~ less than 5% of old people in each group?no. I misunderstood your question. Sorry! BLOOOOOOOOOOPERRRRRRRRRRRALERTTTTTTT!!Are all old people included in either group A or group B? no Or are the percentages of old people in each group comparable to the percentages in the population as a whole? yes The answer to the second question should be (HINT!!) it's ALL the old people in each group
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - so we have a scrund which involves comparing two groups of old people? the health of two groups of old people?

but these 2 groups do not contain all old people?

are the groups defined by age? are they each 'people over the age of..'? is one group - people over the age of 100?
is the scrund that people over the age of X are actually healthier than people over the age of Y, where X is larger than Y?

so we might expect that those over the age of 90 are less healthy than those between 80 and 90, but isn actual fact it's the other way around?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 8:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
OK - so we have a scrund which involves comparing two groups of old people? yes the health of two groups of old people? yes

but these 2 groups do not contain all old people? yes

are the groups defined by age? yes are they each 'people over the age of..'? nois one group - people over the age of 100? no
is the scrund that people over the age of X are actually healthier than people over the age of Y, where X is larger than Y? see below

so we might expect that those over the age of 90 are less healthy than those between 80 and 90, but isn actual fact it's the other way around? Well, so close that I'll declare a
****** SPOILER*************

Are you surprised to hear than the average person in his 90's is healthier than the average person in his 80's? I was, but when I think about it, it makes sense.Few people become healthier as they go from their 80's to their 90's (although some may, through coronary bypasses, etc.), but the people who make it into their 90's are a very select group. Thanks for sticking with it, everyone, & for solving it, Hannah, & you know where my new puzzle is.

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