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Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it had been raining outside, she would have lived. If it hadn't been raining inside, her brother would have died.
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Post Number: 19
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Posted on Thursday, April 23, 2009 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Raining inside? So, like an open-roof building?
Was the rain inside real rain from the sky? or just water eg from a sprinkler system?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she die? Did her brother die? Was it raining?
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 56
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Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Raining inside? So, like an open-roof building? no, see below
Was the rain inside real rain from the sky? no or just water eg from a sprinkler system? yes, and it was in fact a sprinkler system
Did she die? yes Did her brother die? no Was it raining? outside no, inside see above
Tingtangclan (Tingtangclan)
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Posted on Friday, April 24, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it deal with fire and electricity? as in there was a fire, her brother got caught on fire, and if he went out and it was raining he would have been saved, and if the sprinkers did not go off he would have died. In addition the fire was startetd by a electircal shot or something, and when the sprinkers went off, she shocked herself or something similar?
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 58
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it deal with fire and electricity? as in there was a fire, her brother got caught on fire, and if he went out and it was raining he would have been saved, and if the sprinkers did not go off he would have died. In addition the fire was startetd by a electircal shot or something, and when the sprinkers went off, she shocked herself or something similar? not even close
Yabblesmacker (Yabblesmacker)
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevent that it was her brother? Or could it have been her husband or another male acquaitance?
Was she outside when she died? Inside?
Was her brother outside when she died? Inside?
Both she and her brother HAF/HAM?
If it had not been raining inside, and her brother would have died, would they have died at the same time?
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 59
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevent that it was her brother? Or could it have been her husband or another male acquaitance? well, this actually happened, and it was her brother, but in theory it could have been someone else
Was she outside when she died? this one Inside? so no
Was her brother outside when she died? when his sister died? irrelevant Inside? so this is irrelevant too
Both she and her brother HAF/HAM? human and the respective sexes, but not adult
If it had not been raining inside, and her brother would have died, would they have died at the same time? no
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 60
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

by the way, the brother was inside when his sister died, but unless you know this story, this won't help you one bit in solving the problem
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it safe to say that the sprinkler system coming on saved her brother's life, regardless of whether or not he was in the building?

Is the building in question, their home? Are other people involved? Anyone else in the building? Did they die? If not, were they at risk?

Were the sprinklers set off by fire? Smoke? Were they switched on deliberately?
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 61
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it safe to say that the sprinkler system coming on saved her brother's life, regardless of whether or not he was in the building? You misunderstand my answers. At the time that HE would have died had the sprinkler system not gone off, he was in the building. It is irrelevant whether he was in there when his sister died.

Is the building in question, their home? no Are other people involved? yes Anyone else in the building? yes Did they die? some of them If not, were they at risk? some of them

Were the sprinklers set off by fire? no Smoke? maybe Were they switched on deliberately? could also be this
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Post Number: 218
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Posted on Saturday, April 25, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the building a hospital? A school? Hotel? Office? Restaurant? Are their parents in the building? Other siblings?

Did the she die before he was in danger/saved by the sprinklers? After? Did she die of the same thing he would have died of, had the sprinklers not come on?

Can we call them Terry and June? 8)
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 63
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Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the building a hospital? A school? yes Hotel? Office? Restaurant? Are their parents in the building? Other siblings?

Did the she die before he was in danger/saved by the sprinklers? this one After? Did she die of the same thing he would have died of, had the sprinklers not come on? yes

Can we call them Terry and June? sure, but can we give them more genderish names like Bob and Maria?
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Post Number: 219
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Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well there's a Bob in your other puzzle - don't know about you but I would get terribly confused! 8) How's about Tom and Maria?

Were the sprinklers already on when Maria died? Was Tom ever aware he was in danger? Or did the sprinklers mean he was never in danger?

Were other children at the school killed? In danger? Those inside? Outside? Same goes for teachers? Was a fire alarm going off? Do we need to know why Maria was outside and Tom was inside?
Spackspartan (Spackspartan)
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Post Number: 64
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Posted on Sunday, April 26, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well there's a Bob in your other puzzle - don't know about you but I would get terribly confused! 8) How's about Tom and Maria? sure

Were the sprinklers already on when Maria died? yes Was Tom ever aware he was in danger? yes Or did the sprinklers mean he was never in danger?

Were other children at the school killed? yes In danger? yes Those inside? yes Outside? yes Same goes for teachers? yes Was a fire alarm going off? possibly, I don't know, doesn't matter though Do we need to know why Maria was outside and Tom was inside? Why Maria was outside will help. Why Tom was inside will not.
Strongplacebo (Strongplacebo)
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Post Number: 221
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Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Maria have any medical/physical condition we need to know about? Does Tom?

This takes place during the school day? Is Maria outside because it's lunchtime? Playtime? Is she having a lesson outside? Has she been evacuated from the building? Is it going-home-time?

Those that died inside: were they being 'sprinkled'? Was Tom the only survivor? Did all of the casualties including Maria, die of the same thing? Are there other people relevant to solving this puzzle? Did they die? Survive?
Danaria789 (Danaria789)
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Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are their ages relevent? Were all the casulties children?
Was there some kind of environmental problem? Gas leak? Bomb threat? Severe weather?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 220
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Posted on Monday, April 27, 2009 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This was asked, but I'm not sure of the answer: is fire involved? Is elecricity?
Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the sprinkler system save Tom directly? (e.g. water putting out fire) Indirectly? (e.g. the spraying of water confused an attacker, giving Tom time to hide safely) Same questions for how the lack of rain/sprinkler system caused Maria's death.

Is there a relevant aspect of the sprinkler system that makes it eminently suitable for its purpose? That is, would it have made a difference whether there was a field sprinkler system outside, or whether it was raining, as to whether or not Maria would have survived? Could we similarly substitute the indoor sprinkler system with, say, a bucket of water, and still result in Tom surviving?

Is it relevant who, out of Tom and Maria died first? If so, which one? Or could we, for the purposes of this puzzle (even if it means fictionalising the real-life event) assume that they died simultaneously?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Maria on fire, ran outside in panic, and died there? Was her brother on fire, stayed inside, and survived because he was doused by the sprinklers?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since I recognized this one, I emailed spackspartan, who told me I was correct. He says however he does not want to take time to do it, and that I can take it over. Here goes:

Does Maria have any medical/physical condition we need to know about? Does Tom? no to both

This takes place during the school day? yes Is Maria outside because it's lunchtime? yes Playtime? no to this and other possible reasons for Maria being outside Is she having a lesson outside? Has she been evacuated from the building? Is it going-home-time?

Those that died inside: were they being 'sprinkled'? no Was Tom the only survivor? no Did all of the casualties including Maria, die of the same thing? Yes with a slight "ish". But don't focus much on the ish or you'll get confused. Are there other people relevant to solving this puzzle? somewhat relevant. Did they die? yes, but be wary of FA Survive? no

Are their ages relevent? no, unless you've heard this, in which case it might help you Were all the casulties children? most but not all
Was there some kind of environmental problem? no Gas leak? no Bomb threat? yes, but be wary of FAs Severe weather? no

Does the sprinkler system save Tom directly? (e.g. water putting out fire) Indirectly? (e.g. the spraying of water confused an attacker, giving Tom time to hide safely) indirectly, and you're so close with your example, it's almost scary Same questions for how the lack of rain/sprinkler system caused Maria's death. Indirectly

Is there a relevant aspect of the sprinkler system that makes it eminently suitable for its purpose? That is, would it have made a difference whether there was a field sprinkler system outside, or whether it was raining, as to whether or not Maria would have survived? If there had been a sprinkler system outside, Maria would probably have died, but I can't say for sure Could we similarly substitute the indoor sprinkler system with, say, a bucket of water, and still result in Tom surviving? probably not

Is it relevant who, out of Tom and Maria died first? not that relevant but I'll tell you anyways, so if you've heard this, it will help you If so, which one? Maria Or could we, for the purposes of this puzzle (even if it means fictionalising the real-life event) assume that they died simultaneously? They could not have died simultaneously

Was Maria on fire, ran outside in panic, and died there? Was her brother on fire, stayed inside, and survived because he was doused by the sprinklers? not even close
Rijkgriffioen (Rijkgriffioen)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she come out of the building? If so: Was she on fire? Did the school went on fire when they were both inside? Did she ran out and did Bob not?
So here is the answer: The school went on fire. Before the sprinkling went on she ran out (on fire) but her brother did not. Her brother was saved by the sprinkling. If it had rain outside she would have lived.
Rijkgriffioen (Rijkgriffioen)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I din't see the questions of Jenburdoo...
Now I do. So my answer is wrong I guess...
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are wrong. Not even close. But I will answer your questions.
Did she come out of the building? At some point she did, but before she was in danger If so: Was she on fire? no Did the school went on fire when they were both inside? no Did she ran out and did Bob not? no
just to reiterate - the school was NOT on fire. Something else set off the sprinkler system.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't established specifically what killed Maria or anyone else...

Did Maria burn to death? Smoke inhalation? Murder?

If it hadn't've been raining inside, Tom would have died of... fire? Murder? Poison? Explosion?

Are criminals involved? Police? Fire department?

Did the sprinkler system go off automatically in response to... smoke? fire? gas? Was it triggered manually? Remotely?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't established specifically what killed Maria or anyone else... right you are

Did Maria burn to death? no Smoke inhalation? no Murder? yes

If it hadn't've been raining inside, Tom would have died of... fire? no Murder? yes Poison? Explosion? so no to rest

Are criminals involved? Well, you could call the murderers criminals, but that was their only crime Police? only to deal with the murder after Maria died and Tom would have died Fire department? If so, only in the similar capacity to the police

Did the sprinkler system go off automatically in response to... smoke? fire? gas? Was it triggered manually? Remotely? They almost certainly set off automatically in response to smoke. They may have been triggered manually, but the important part is that there was a lot of smoke in the room. Find out more about this
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would certainly call murderers criminals...

Was the smoke caused by the murderers? Directly?

Was the smoke caused by: otherwise harmless smoke bombs? a large fire? A small fire? gunfire?

Was Maria shot? Would Tom have been shot if not for the sprinklers?

Did men with guns take over the school?

Did the sprinklers "rescue" Tom because he was hard to see? because the water made their weapons difficult to use? Either way, would Maria have been saved the same way if it was raining out?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would certainly call murderers criminals... Well, I wanted to make it clear that this was their only crime - ie there was no bank robbery or anything

Was the smoke caused by the murderers? yes Directly? yes

Was the smoke caused by: otherwise harmless smoke bombs? a large fire? A small fire? gunfire? this one

Was Maria shot? yes Would Tom have been shot if not for the sprinklers? yes

Did men with guns take over the school? yesish for svv of "men"

Did the sprinklers "rescue" Tom because he was hard to see? no because the water made their weapons difficult to use? no Either way, would Maria have been saved the same way if it was raining out? no and possibly a slight FA
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is whoever took over the school human? Are they men and women? Soldiers?

Did the sprinklers save Tom because the murderers decided to leave once the sprinklers turned on?

Would the rain have saved Maria because she wouldn't have have been outside if it was raining?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is whoever took over the school human? yes Are they men and women? no Soldiers?
no
Did the sprinklers save Tom because the murderers decided to leave once the sprinklers turned on? not really

Would the rain have saved Maria because she wouldn't have have been outside if it was raining? Yes! Finally someone figures this out!
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the murderers kids?

Did the sprinklers going off call attention to the school? So police showed up, and caused the murderers to flee? or get caught?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 1:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the murderers kids? well, teenagers close enough

Did the sprinklers going off call attention to the school? So police showed up, and caused the murderers to flee? or get caught? no
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 3:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, so we have to figure out how/why the sprinklers saved Tom...

Did the teens with guns not like being wet? For a particular reason?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the sprinklers strong? Did they in some way blind the murderers? Allow Tom to hide?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, so we have to figure out how/why the sprinklers saved Tom... that's part of it at least

Did the teens with guns not like being wet? For a particular reason? no

Are the sprinklers strong? irr Did they in some way blind the murderers? yes Allow Tom to hide? this too
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the sprinklers "in some way blinded the murderers"... but I got a "no" when I asked if the sprinklers rescued Tom because he was hard to see... was that distinction deliberate? (Or did I just word my question poorly?)
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the sprinklers "in some way blinded the murderers"... but I got a "no" when I asked if the sprinklers rescued Tom because he was hard to see... was that distinction deliberate? (Or did I just word my question poorly?) I mean it just distracted them. It was worded poorly. Sorry
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 4:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the teenagers attend the school in question? Did they come in from outside and then start shooting? Start shooting before they got inside? Were they ever outside, or was Maria just killed by a bullet that went through a window or something? Relevant why they waited until lunchtime to start shooting? Relevant how the guns created enough smoke to set off the fire alarms? Did all the shooting take place in a single room? Did anyone die once the sprinklers had started going off?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the teenagers attend the school in question? yes Did they come in from outside and then start shooting? No Start shooting before they got inside? yes Were they ever outside, or was Maria just killed by a bullet that went through a window or something? Maria was killed because the teenagers shot her while they were all outside, as the teen shooters were storming the building Relevant why they waited until lunchtime to start shooting? no Relevant how the guns created enough smoke to set off the fire alarms? Yes, but it should be simple to figure out Did all the shooting take place in a single room? no Did anyone die once the sprinklers had started going off? I'm not sure how to answer this without being misleading, so I'll just tell you what happened: If I am not mistaken, (and if I am, it's irrelevant anyways, unless you've heard about this and recognize it) the shooters left the library when the sprinklers went off, and shot themselves dead. And that was all.
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this Columbine?

If so, is there more to figure out?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this Columbine? Yes!

If so, is there more to figure out? I think that anybody who knows about Columbine could get it at this point without any lateral thinking, so I'm just going to make it a

********* SPOILER****
Maria is actually Rachel Scott, who was eating lunch outside with a friend as the shooters stormed the school, shooting and killing Rachel in the Process. Tom is Maria's brother Craig, who was in the library when the shooters entered. As they were about to kill Craig, the sprinklers went off, distracting the shooters and allowing Craig to escape. Had it been raining outside, Rachel would not have been eating lunch out there, and would probably have been in the cafeteria and survived. had the sprinkler system not gone off in the library, it is almost certain Craig would have died.

On a side, check out my inherited puzzle "To Serve God and My Country" as well as my own, "Guilty with a Twist".

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