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Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1013
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

- I had a little problem, Bill. I.... I was almost nicked by the coppers yesterday. Near the place where the body was found... you have read today's newspapers, haven't you? Bad luck indeed. I was as careful as I could be but they appeared out of nowhere when I was almost there. I am sorry but I had to tell them.

- What exactly did you tell them, Ray???

- Everything. I even had to show them, or else they’d never let me go.

- Raymond, you dumb crud. You know the Rules, don‘t you? You are not supposed to tell ANYONE who...

- Easy, Bill. I would like to see what YOU would do if you were in my place, with a .38 pointing at your head. Anyway, I had an impression that at least one of them sympathized with us. There are coppers among us, you know, and some of them are actually pretty good.

What are Bill and Ray talking about?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 458
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

coppers = police?
Were Bill and Ray part of an organization?
Were Bill and Ray worried about people finding out they do something illegal? Embarrassing? Personal/Private? dangerous?
Did Ray have anything to do with the body?
A human body? A non-human animal? An alien?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1014
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

coppers = police? Yes
Were Bill and Ray part of an organization? Please define "an organization"
Were Bill and Ray worried about people finding out they do something illegal? Embarrassing? Personal/Private? This is closest dangerous?
Did Ray have anything to do with the body? No
A human body? Yes A non-human animal? An alien?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 459
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were B&R part of:
A political party?
A corporation?
A small business?
A club?
A class?
A student body?
A group of friends?
A religious group?
A politically-oriented group?
A group of acquaintances?
A military group?
A youth group?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1015
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were B&R part of:
A political party?
A corporation?
A small business?
A club?
A class?
A student body?
A group of friends?
A religious group?
A politically-oriented group?
A group of acquaintances?
A military group?
A youth group?

Neither
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 462
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A fraternity? A secret society? A group of neighbors? A family? A mafia or mob?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1017
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2009 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A fraternity? A secret society? A group of neighbors? A family? A mafia or mob? No
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 473
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they work for the government? A university? Ghostbusters relevant (I've assumed no, since that's a small business, but I'm running out of ideas!)? Ghosts relevant?

Does the body have anything to do with the puzzle other than that it's what led to Ray spilling the beans?

Is the thing they're secretive about something that is ongoing for an indeterminate time? Something that they're planning that's leading up to one big event in the future? Something they're researching? Something they're trying to hide (clarification: obviously they're trying to hide their actions. But are their actions primarily aimed at hiding something?)?

Are Bill and Ray HAM? Are there others in B&R's group? 1? 2? <5? <10? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands?

Are there any other relevant people who are neither the police nor part of B&R's group?

I'm defining B&R's "group" as anyone who is participating in what they're doing and is bound by the same Rules?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1030
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they work for the government? A university? Ghostbusters relevant (I've assumed no, since that's a small business, but I'm running out of ideas!)? Ghosts relevant? Neither

Does the body have anything to do with the puzzle other than that it's what led to Ray spilling the beans? No

Is the thing they're secretive about something that is ongoing for an indeterminate time? Yes Something that they're planning that's leading up to one big event in the future? No Something they're researching? No Something they're trying to hide (clarification: obviously they're trying to hide their actions. But are their actions primarily aimed at hiding something?)? Yesish

Are Bill and Ray HAM? Yes, but irrelevant, except for the H component Are there others in B&R's group? Yes 1? 2? <5? <10? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? This

Are there any other relevant people who are neither the police nor part of B&R's group? Yes

I'm defining B&R's "group" as anyone who is participating in what they're doing and is bound by the same Rules? I understand it like this
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 475
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many other relevant people who are not members of the group? <5? <10? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Billions?

Time period relevant? If so [LTPF list of 20th-21st century decades]?

Are they trying to overthrow a government? Change a law? Change an unfair social situation?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1033
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many other relevant people who are not members of the group? <5? <10? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? Millions? Billions? I'd say this

Time period relevant? Yes If so [LTPF list of 20th-21st century decades]? Just the 21th century

Are they trying to overthrow a government? No Change a law? No Change an unfair social situation? No
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 478
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it affects the entire population of the world, more or less?

Is this sci-fi?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 231
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "group" consist of all the people who share a certain hobby?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it affects the entire population of the world, more or less? Yes

Is this sci-fi? No, it's real

Does the "group" consist of all the people who share a certain hobby? Yes
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 481
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What happened after Ray encountered the cops? Did they tell anyone? Did the group's plan become common knowledge? If plan isn't the right word, then did their secret become common knowledge? Did whatever they were trying to hide get ruined?

Was their hobby what they were trying to hide? Or some detail about their hobby?

Were they playing some sort of game? A live-action game such as human pac-man? A role playing game like D&D?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What happened after Ray encountered the cops? Did they tell anyone? Probably not Did the group's plan become common knowledge? No If plan isn't the right word, then did their secret become common knowledge? No Did whatever they were trying to hide get ruined? Possibly

Was their hobby what they were trying to hide? Or some detail about their hobby? Rather this

Were they playing some sort of game? Yes A live-action game such as human pac-man? A role playing game like D&D? What exactly are these?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Username: Biograd

Post Number: 427
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are B&R magicians?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1447
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 6:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The body - of a person? An animal? A dummy of some sort? An actual body?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are B&R magicians? No

The body - of a person? Yes An animal? No A dummy of some sort? No An actual body? Yes
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1451
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location relevant? Anything to do with Fight Club? Is a game of some sort involved?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location relevant? Not really Anything to do with Fight Club? What's this? Is a game of some sort involved? Yes
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 484
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clarifications:

A live-action game such as human pac-man? -- human pacman is a game that involves real people running around city streets as either pacman or the ghosts. I know it's been done in NYC, but I think it's been done in other major cities, too. Another game along these lines would be the giant game of hide and seek that's going on right now...I'm not sure how big the range is but I heard about it on the news the other day. There's another one where people go about their daily lives but try not to be recognized and "killed" (usually with waterguns or some such thing) by players on the other team. Is it any game along these lines, where real people are physically playing in real world settings on the streets, or where the whole world is the game setting?

A role playing game like D&D? -- Dungeons & Dragons. Kind of like an MMORPG like World of Warcraft, but in the real world. People play a character, sometimes in costume, and their character has certain "powers" that affect the way it interacts with the other characters.

Fight Club -- A very good movie with Brad Pitt and Edward Norton. It was also a book. The premise is that a bunch of men get together and beat the crap out of each other as a form of a therapy support group.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 485
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is money involved?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

larifications:

A live-action game such as human pac-man? -- human pacman is a game that involves real people running around city streets as either pacman or the ghosts. I know it's been done in NYC, but I think it's been done in other major cities, too. Another game along these lines would be the giant game of hide and seek that's going on right now...I'm not sure how big the range is but I heard about it on the news the other day. There's another one where people go about their daily lives but try not to be recognized and "killed" (usually with waterguns or some such thing) by players on the other team. Is it any game along these lines, where real people are physically playing in real world settings on the streets, or where the whole world is the game setting? That seems very interesting! However, it was not the game Ray and Bill were playing

A role playing game like D&D? -- Dungeons & Dragons. Kind of like an MMORPG like World of Warcraft, but in the real world. People play a character, sometimes in costume, and their character has certain "powers" that affect the way it interacts with the other characters. Not this

Fight Club -- A very good movie with Brad Pitt and Edward Norton. It was also a book. The premise is that a bunch of men get together and beat the crap out of each other as a form of a therapy support group. nor this either

Is money involved? Yope
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 490
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Game...board game? card game? a sport? A physical but non-sport game? A sweepstakes? A reality-tv type game (where people are competing to be the last one standing at something, but not on tv)? A game like McDonald's Monopoly or Subway's Scrabble, where you collect pieces to try to win something? A game where something is hidden and people try to find it (adult easter egg hunt, for example), perhaps with clues online or in a newspaper? Geocaching?

Yope money - is there some sort of prize that they are competing for? Some cost of participating?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Game...board game? card game? a sport? A physical but non-sport game? A sweepstakes? A reality-tv type game (where people are competing to be the last one standing at something, but not on tv)? A game like McDonald's Monopoly or Subway's Scrabble, where you collect pieces to try to win something? A game where something is hidden and people try to find it (adult easter egg hunt, for example), perhaps with clues online or in a newspaper? Geocaching? This

Yope money - is there some sort of prize that they are competing for? Noish Some cost of participating? Yesish

Now you have gathered all the basics. If you can make a short summary of what happened, I'm going to spoyle.
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 492
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ray was looking for a Geocaching goal that happened to be near a dead body. He encountered the police, who thought he had something to do with the body. In order to keep from being a suspect, he had to tell them about the Geocache. But according to the rules of Geocaching, you're not supposed to tell anyone where to find the goal.

I'm still not clear on (1) How the entire world is affected, or (2) what the cops were sympathizing with.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ray was looking for a Geocaching goal that happened to be near a dead body. He encountered the police, who thought he had something to do with the body. In order to keep from being a suspect, he had to tell them about the Geocache. But according to the rules of Geocaching, you're not supposed to tell anyone where to find the goal. That's it! You've located the target

I'm still not clear on (1) How the entire world is affected, or (2) what the cops were sympathizing with. I'll try and explain in the


***************SPOILER*****************

You got the story alright. (Btw it's a real story, including the gist of the conversation).

From a geocacher's point of view, the world is divided in two parts - fellow geocachers and Muggles (yes, the Harry Potter style :-)). A part of the thrill of the game consists in the fact that the Muggles don't (and shouldn't) know where the caches are hidden.

It is partly for the thrill, partly for practical purposes - a Muggle can destroy a cache, either intentionally or not. And as the cache owner invests in it a good deal of his/her invention, time and not a negligible sum of money - let alone the spoiled fun of other seekers - you can understand that we are not quite happy about such a prospect.

At present, there are nearly 500,000 geocaches around the world in around 220 countries. Some of them can only be found at night, others are hidden in highly frequented places, and it is very likely that if a dead body is found somewhere in a civilized area, there will be a geocache somewhere near it.

Quite a lot of geocachers report in their logs that they were stopped by the police and asked what they were doing (no matter how hard you try, you sometimes cannot avoid being suspicious). Sometimes you can manage to find an excuse but in a situation like Ray's, most of us would probably spill the beans just like he did.

I have read a true story on the GC forum involving basically the situation described in my puzzle - "Ray" explained what happened, most of the contributors agreed with him, but there were a few whose attitude was similar to "Bill's".

Some geocachers report that they were stopped by the police but the policemen either knew the game and were quite supportive, or turned out to be geocachers themselves.


Thank you all for participating, and congrats to Noel for a FTF (in geocaching, this means "first-to-find" and when a new cache is published, people are able to get up at three in the morning,drive several miles and get lost in a deep forest to get this :-))
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1459
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A very good one. Congrats on an intriguing puzzle.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1061
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 7:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you very much, Jenburdoo. I am really pleased you liked it :-))
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 549
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think there was an NCIS episode with this plot...anyway, very good one.

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