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Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nobody has ever really figured out why they left despite knowing the risks.

(As an aside: Hi! I'm new, as may be obvious. I'll be popping into the other puzzles with my paltry questions; in the meantime, I hope I'm doing this right!)
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Post Number: 1255
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nobody = The person who doesn't like Sara Lee?
They = The astronauts of Apollo 11?
Risks = Possibly fumbling over one's words as one becomes the first human to set foot upon the moon?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doctapeppa:

Nobody = The person who doesn't like Sara Lee? Uh, no. Is this a bit of ribbing for the newbie? :P
They = The astronauts of Apollo 11? no
Risks = Possibly fumbling over one's words as one becomes the first human to set foot upon the moon? Haha, no.
Scood (Scood)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the risk in staying or leaving?

was the risk obvous to "they"
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 6
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scood:

was the risk in staying yope or leaving? yes

was the risk obvous to "they" In leaving, yes.
Scood (Scood)
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the number of people in group "they" relevant?what about in group "nobody"

was the risk life threatening
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Post Number: 40
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a few guesses here...by the way, welcome to the Lateral Puzzles forum!

Are they...

Polynesians, who traveled all over the Pacific?

The ancestors of the American Indians who crossed the Bering Strait when the land bridge there was above water?

The first humans to leave Africa?

Did the risks include...

Poverty?
Death?
Religious persecution?
Not knowing a language in a different place?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scood:

is the number of people in group "they" relevant? No, but it wasn't a particularly large group. what about in group "nobody" irr

was the risk life threatening Yope. Explore more closely.

D_gordon:

I have a few guesses here...by the way, welcome to the Lateral Puzzles forum! Thanks! :D

Are they...

Polynesians, who traveled all over the Pacific? no

The ancestors of the American Indians who crossed the Bering Strait when the land bridge there was above water? no

The first humans to leave Africa? no

Did the risks include...

Poverty? no
Death? yes
Religious persecution? no
Not knowing a language in a different place? no
Vagary (Vagary)
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Post Number: 124
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they the first ever to "leave"?
Had people done this bfore them?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 18
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they the first ever to "leave"? FA territory, I think.
Had people done this before them? Technically, yes, but there's more to it.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The United States Marine Corps relevant?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The United States Marine Corps relevant? no
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a C-130 rollin' down the strip?
Were there 64 Rangers on a one-way trip?
Was their mission Top Secret?
Was their destination unknown?
Did they even care if they never come home?
When their plane got up so high,
did paratroopers take to the skies?
Did they stand up, hook up, shuffle to the door?
Did their knees get weak and they hit the floor?
Jumpmaster picked them up with ease?
Tossed their knees into the breeze?
Did they count one-thousand, two-thousand, three-thousand, four?
Did their main open with a mighty roar?
But if their main don't open wide,
Do they got a reserve by their side?
But if that one should fail them too,
Look out below they're a-comin' through?
If they should die on the old drop zone
should we box them up and ship them home?
Pin their wings upon their chest
And then bury them in the leaning rest?
Will if they die on a Chinese hill
Take their watch or the commies will?
But if they die in the Korean mud
Bury them with a case of Bud?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 40
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This has nothing to do with that particular song/poem/whatever, and the situation/subject depicted is also a no, but in the spirit of generosity, I'll answer line-by-line since there are a few hints here. Assume everything below is a "no" or FA unless noted, because I'm lazy.

Was there a C-130 rollin' down the strip?
Were there 64 Rangers no on a one-way trip yes, ultimately?
Was their mission Top Secret? "Theirs" wasn't...
Was their destination unknown? no, despite the title
Did they even care if they never come home? yes, they did
When their plane got up so high,
did paratroopers take to the skies?
Did they stand up, hook up, shuffle to the door? yope
Did their knees get weak and they hit the floor? yope
Jumpmaster picked them up with ease?
Tossed their knees into the breeze?
Did they count one-thousand, two-thousand, three-thousand, four?
Did their main open with a mighty roar?
But if their main don't open wide,
Do they got a reserve by their side?
But if that one should fail them too,
Look out below they're a-comin' through?
If they should die on the old drop zone
should we box them up and ship them home?
Pin their wings upon their chest
And then bury them in the leaning rest?
Will if they die on a Chinese hill yes! one part of this is an FA but should be easy to determine
Take their watch or the commies will? mostly irrelevant/FA, but...
But if they die in the Korean mud
Bury them with a case of Bud?
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ten thousand thanks! : -{ )
Is human conflict relevant at all? Did they die? Did they think they were going to die? Did they know the risks? Did they know where they were going? Are hills relevant? China? Communism? Did they want to go home? Did they never go home?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 43
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No problem! I'm just worried that no one else seems to be very interested. It's a good puzzle, I promise!

Is human conflict relevant at all? yope Did they die? yes Did they think they were going to die? no, or not initially Did they know the risks? Yope. Be more specific. Did they know where they were going? Yope; explore. Are hills relevant? yesish China? no Communism? yes Did they want to go home? I would certainly imagine yes! Did they never go home? Not alive.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the remaining "communist states" relevant to the puzzle? Is this based on a true story? FYOI? Is the setting relevant? If so, the location? The time frame? Is water relevant?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 45
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the remaining "communist states" relevant to the puzzle? Clarify. Currently remaining, or at any time? Is this based on a true story? yes FYOI? so, no Is the setting relevant? yes If so, the location? yes The time frame? yes Is water relevant? yes, but...
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Currently remaining? At any time?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 47
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Currently remaining? no At any time? yes
Rcs (Rcs)
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will if they die on a Chinese hill FA.

Is the FA in that line that the hill is Chinese? Did they die or risk death on a hill of some sort?

People who tried to climb Mt. Everest? (Although, come to think of it, Mt. Everest is on the border between Nepal and Chinese-governed Tibet, so maybe it really is a Chinese hill.)
Erinye (Erinye)
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Post Number: 48
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Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA in that line that the hill is Chinese? yes Did they die or risk death on a hill of some sort? yes

People who tried to climb Mt. Everest? (Although, come to think of it, Mt. Everest is on the border between Nepal and Chinese-governed Tibet, so maybe it really is a Chinese hill.) No, but good point.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 6:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Exploration of some sort? Shackleton? Northwest Passage? Did they die? Could they have? Exact location and time period relevant? How many people involved? 2, 3, 4? More than 10? Than 100?

Were they at risk from nature? Other people?

Wartime?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Exploration of some sort? Yesish? For svv of "exploration," I guess. Shackleton? Northwest Passage? Neither of these. Did they die? yes Could they have? so, naturally Exact location and time period relevant? They'd certainly help a lot, although it's not inconceivable that the same thing could have happened under different circumstances. How many people involved? 2, 3, 4? More than this. More than 10? But less than this. Than 100?

Were they at risk from nature? yes Other people? yope

Wartime? yesish
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afghanistan? Dead of winter? (Well, no, that would be a lot more than 10 people.) Were they in the wilderness surrounded by cantankerous natives? Australia? America? Africa?

Were they leaving home? Or trying to get home?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Afghanistan? no Dead of winter? yes (Well, no, that would be a lot more than 10 people.) FA? Were they in the wilderness yes surrounded by cantankerous natives? but no Australia? America? Africa? None of these.

Were they leaving home? This, but beware FA. Or trying to get home?
Erinye (Erinye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To prod this along, I'll put up a recap and a couple of hints.

RECAP: A group of under 10 people died in the mountains of an ex-Communist state in winter. There were risks both in leaving and in staying where they were, but they chose to leave. Their surroundings were relevant in multiple ways, both natural and man-made.

HINTS: Explore specific risks, and try to gather more information about their surroundings.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were these mountains in {Consider LTPF list of former communist countries, below}?

The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
The People's Socialist Republic of Albania
The People's Republic of Angola
The People's Republic of Benin
The People's Republic of Bulgaria
The People's Republic of the Congo
The Republic of Czechoslovakia
The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic
The People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
The Finnish Democratic Republic
The German Democratic Republic
The Political Committee of National Liberation
The People's Revolutionary Government of Grenada
The People's Republic of Hungary
The Hungarian Soviet Republic)
The Flag of Cambodia Democratic Kampuchea
The People's Republic of Kampuchea
The Mongolian People's Republic
The People's Republic of Mozambique
The People's Republic of Poland
The People's Republic of Romania
The Socialist Republic of Romania
The Somali Democratic Republic
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
The Tuvinian People's Republic
The Democratic Republic of Vietnam
The People's Democratic Republic of Yemen
The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Erinye (Erinye)
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Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were these mountains in {Consider LTPF list of former communist countries, below}?

The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
The People's Socialist Republic of Albania
The People's Republic of Angola
The People's Republic of Benin
The People's Republic of Bulgaria
The People's Republic of the Congo
The Republic of Czechoslovakia
The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic
The People's Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
The Finnish Democratic Republic
The German Democratic Republic
The Political Committee of National Liberation
The People's Revolutionary Government of Grenada
The People's Republic of Hungary
The Hungarian Soviet Republic)
The Flag of Cambodia Democratic Kampuchea
The People's Republic of Kampuchea
The Mongolian People's Republic
The People's Republic of Mozambique
The People's Republic of Poland
The People's Republic of Romania
The Socialist Republic of Romania
The Somali Democratic Republic
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics This one.
The Tuvinian People's Republic
The Democratic Republic of Vietnam
The People's Democratic Republic of Yemen
The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Mimino (Mimino)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they depart from the mountains? Did they go from some other area to the mountains? from some place to some other place, crossing the mountains?
Did they die in the mountains?
Were they in the mountains for professional reasons? (scientists, maybe? or oil explorers?)
Did they live in the mountains?
Were they hiding there?
Did they want to leave the Soviet Union?
A wild guess: The Lykov family relevant?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not that I've been participating in this a great deal, but I just discovered, completely by accident, the event which I'm convinced has to be the answer.

I wasn't even using Google or Wikipedia. I swear. :-(

Emailed to confirm this and preparing to drop out of this puzzle.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...And since Erinye seems to have disappeared, with Paul's permission I will now be taking questions on this puzzle. Early $p0il3rs please email, as always.

Did they depart from the mountains? No.
Did they go from some other area to the mountains? Yes.
from some place to some other place, crossing the mountains?Yes.
Did they die in the mountains? Yes.
Were they in the mountains for professional reasons? (scientists, maybe? or oil explorers?) No.
Did they live in the mountains? No.
Were they hiding there? No.
Did they want to leave the Soviet Union? No.
A wild guess: The Lykov family relevant? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was aircrash involved?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was aircrash involved? No.
Hietek (Hietek)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they starve to death?

Freeze to death?

Fall down a crevice?

get lost?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 5:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they starve to death? No.

Freeze to death? Yesish.

Fall down a crevice? No.

get lost? Yes.
Doctapeppa (Doctapeppa)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 5:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom Sawyer?
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
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Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they looking for the Northwest Passage?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom Sawyer? Not him.

Were they looking for the Northwest Passage? Already answered: no.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so I'll reiterate (with some modifications) Erinye's earlier recap and hints, as they're still relevant.

RECAP: A group of under 10 people died in the mountains of the USSR in winter. There were risks both in leaving and in staying where they were, but they chose to leave. Their surroundings were relevant in multiple ways, both natural and man-made.

HINTS: Explore specific risks, and try to gather more information about their surroundings.

Also, BLOOPER: when I said "yesish" in response to "did they freeze to death," "yope" would have been more accurate.
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
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Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this puzzle in any way related to the Siberian puzzle about death (I think posted by Bolapara, if I'm not mistaken)?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this puzzle in any way related to the Siberian puzzle about death (I think posted by Bolapara, if I'm not mistaken)? No relation.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the risks in leaving the same as the cause(s) of their death? Or did they manage to avoid the main risk in leaving by dying? Or, did another misfortune befall them, that lead them to die eventually?

If they had stayed, would they have risked freezing? Running out of supplies? Being attacked by other humans? Being attacked by animals?
Looking back at the puzzle statement...did the risks of leaving obviously outweigh the risks of staying? Was it irrational to go? Had they recieved new information shortly before leaving? Shortly after?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the risks in leaving the same as the cause(s) of their death? Yesish. Or did they manage to avoid the main risk in leaving by dying? No. Or, did another misfortune befall them, that lead them to die eventually? Yope.

If they had stayed, would they have risked freezing? Not more than by leaving. Running out of supplies? Probably not. Being attacked by other humans? Possibly. Being attacked by animals? Possibly.

Looking back at the puzzle statement...did the risks of leaving obviously outweigh the risks of staying? One might think so. Explore. Was it irrational to go? Define "irrational."Had they recieved new information shortly before leaving? Probably, for svv of "information". Shortly after? No.

This is about an event about which a lot is uncertain to this day. So I'm having a hard time answering some of the questions. For example, I don't intend "possibly" to be taken as almost a synonym for "irrelevant."
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Understandable, especially since you didn't write the puzzle statement. =)

Were there multiple risks involved in leaving? And only one involved in staying? Were they willing to risk their lives for a reason entirely seperate from chances of survival? Would getting lost be the most relevant risk in leaving?

for svv of information...hm...did a new person enter their group before they left? Did their situation worsen, causing them to leave? Did they hear that people hostile to them were in the area?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there multiple risks involved in leaving? Probably, but one in particular stands out. And only one involved in staying? Not necessarily. Were they willing to risk their lives for a reason entirely seperate from chances of survival? Probably not. Would getting lost be the most relevant risk in leaving? Noish.

for svv of information...hm...did a new person enter their group before they left? No. Did their situation worsen, causing them to leave? Almost certainly. Did they hear that people hostile to them were in the area? Possibly.
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The risk involved in leaving that stands out -- is it natural (e.g. volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, freezing cold weather)? industrial (e.g. pollution, encroaching development)? human (e.g. people chasing them, war)? internal (e.g. they thought they would have no place to go, they felt like they would lose their culture)? other? Are any of these specific examples the risk in question?

The risk(s) in staying -- is/are they natural? industrial? human? internal? other? Are any of the specific examples above in the "e.g."s relevant risks in staying?

Is where they were before they left relevant? or just where they were when they died? Were they outside? in a cave? in a manmade shelter of some kind? inside a building or buildings?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 01, 2009 - 5:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The risk involved in leaving that stands out -- is it natural (e.g. volcanic eruptions, hurricanes, freezing cold weather This one)? industrial (e.g. pollution, encroaching development)? human (e.g. people chasing them, war)? internal (e.g. they thought they would have no place to go, they felt like they would lose their culture)? other? Are any of these specific examples the risk in question?

The risk(s) in staying -- is/are they natural? Possibly. industrial? human? Possibly this one too. internal? other? Possibly. Are any of the specific examples above in the "e.g."s relevant risks in staying? Not this time.

Is where they were before they left relevant? Yes. or just where they were when they died? As is this. Were they outside? in a cave? in a manmade shelter of some kind? This one. inside a building or buildings?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they know the risks of staying? Were these people related to each other? members of a group? relative strangers? Were they fleeing the government? Or were they government types fleeing the people?

The manmade shelter -- tent? lean-to? bunker? igloo?

Just to check, does this puzzle actually take place in the USSR? or in Russia? or some other one of the countries that are former constituent parts of the USSR? I thought it had been asked before, but I can't find it: did this happen in the Ural Mountains?

Is it actually known how these people died?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, April 09, 2009 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they know the risks of staying? Yes. Were these people related to each other? members of a group? This one. relative strangers? Were they fleeing the government? You're probably getting sick of it, but "It's a strong possibility," is the best answer I can give. Or were they government types fleeing the people? No.

The manmade shelter -- tent? This one. lean-to? bunker? igloo?

Just to check, does this puzzle actually take place in the USSR? Yes. or in Russia? Yes. or some other one of the countries that are former constituent parts of the USSR? So no. I thought it had been asked before, but I can't find it: did this happen in the Ural Mountains? Yes.

Is it actually known how these people died? For some of them, yes.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want to cross the mountains? (if so: from West to East?)
Did they know where to go?
Did they lose the direction?
Relevant why they have been in the place from which they departed? Was it for professional reasons? did they live there? were they farmers? miners? treasure hunters?
Were they indigenous people? Were they prisoners? Were they (ethnical) Russians? citizens of the Soviet Union?
Did this happen between 1917 and 1924? (that is, during the civil war and surrounding events in Siberia?)
Were these people in any way involved in combat action?
Did they have committed any crime before? if so: together? some of them? individually?
Did they decide that this place is "no good to stay" because of poisonous minerals? evaporations? radiactivity? evil spirits?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want to cross the mountains? Yes. (if so: from West to East?) But no.
Did they know where to go? No.
Did they lose the direction? Yes.
Relevant why they have been in the place from which they departed? Yes. Was it for professional reasons? did they live there? were they farmers? miners? treasure hunters? No to all.
Were they indigenous people? No. Were they prisoners? No. Were they (ethnical) Russians? Yes. citizens of the Soviet Union? Yes.
Did this happen between 1917 and 1924? (that is, during the civil war and surrounding events in Siberia?) No.
Were these people in any way involved in combat action? No.
Did they have committed any crime before? Irrelevant. if so: together? some of them? individually?
Did they decide that this place is "no good to stay" because of poisonous minerals? evaporations? radiactivity? evil spirits? No to all.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, April 20, 2009 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want to cross the mountains from East to West? from South to North? from North to South?
Did they want to reach a particular point on the other side of the mountains?
Did they know the basic geography of the region?
Did they know where they were at all (at the time when they departed)?
Were they all from the same region of Russia? Were they heading for their home?
Were they prisoners? prisoners of war? homeless people? tourists?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want to cross the mountains from East to West? from South to North? This one. from North to South?
Did they want to reach a particular point on the other side of the mountains? Yes.
Did they know the basic geography of the region? Yes.
Did they know where they were at all (at the time when they departed)? Yesish.
Were they all from the same region of Russia? I believe so, but not really relevant.
Were they heading for their home? No.
Were they prisoners? prisoners of war? homeless people? tourists? This is closest.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, May 04, 2009 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure whether this has been asked already .. were these people military? police?
or maybe, astronauts on training?
hikers? mountain climbers? skiers?
Did they go to the place from which they later departed for private reasons? did they have to do a job there? did they want to prove something?
The place they wanted to reach behind the mountains: a town or village? a street? an airport? a river? the Arctic Sea?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Thursday, May 07, 2009 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure whether this has been asked already .. were these people military? police?
or maybe, astronauts on training?
hikers? mountain climbers? skiers? The last two.
Did they go to the place from which they later departed for private reasons? Yes. did they have to do a job there? No. did they want to prove something? Noish.
The place they wanted to reach behind the mountains: a town or village? This one. a street? an airport? a river? the Arctic Sea?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll try a recap: A group of skiers is spending their vacation in the Ural mountains. For reasons we don't know they departed from their place and headed for a town somewhere in the North. They underestimated the weather/climate/distance/terrain and died before they reached their destination.

Is there still something to find out?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 4:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll try a recap: A group of skiers is spending their vacation in the Ural mountains. Correct. For reasons we don't know they departed from their place ...which was what sort of place? and headed for a town somewhere in the North. <b> They underestimated the weather/climate/distance/terrain Noish and died before they reached their destination. But this is correct.

Is there still something to find out? What were they doing on their vacation? Also, what happened that put them in danger?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what sort of place....cabin? campground? did their equipment fail? time frame relevant? weren't the skying on the vacation? why they left= why they left for vacation? or why they left their location? we're they murdered? sorry if some of this has been addressed already, didn't read every post.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what sort of place....cabin? campground? Neither of these. did their equipment fail? No. time frame relevant? Somewhat. weren't the skying on the vacation? Yes. why they left= why they left for vacation? or why they left their location? This one. we're they murdered? It's possible, but probably one of the less likely explanations.
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if not campground, campsite? hmmm...one of the less likely explanations eh? so no definitive answer to this one? i'm a little confused. what are we trying to figure out here?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Politically, were these people Communist? If not, would they have still died if they had been Communist? Was the town they were headed toward still within the USSR? Still within Russia? Were they in the mountains purely because they were on vacation and wanted to ski? If so, did the circumstances change while they were up there? If not, was the vacation a front for something? Say, an attempt to flee?

So they were in a tent, on top of a mountain, in the middle of winter, in extreme cold, and it wasn't even a designated campground? Doesn't seem like much of a vacation. Did they have more than one tent? Was anyone else camping in the same vicinity? When they left, did they take their tent(s) with them? Did they fail to take something else that would have helped them stay warm? Something they had in the original scenario? When we talk about a tent, this is a standard pup tent that people take camping with them? A large, relatively permanent tent like they use for weddings? A circus tent? A tent with no sides, like a canopy?
Akshaydeshpande (Akshaydeshpande)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please tell me abouot following ?
Forrest Details ?
What things they carried with them ? Any weapon ?
forrest was military area ?
Destination distance ? 10km?50km?100km?more
Types of animals ?
Any nuclear faclity around ?
Any details about body found ? Clothes present on body ? none ? minimul ? medium ? heavy(fully covered) ?
threats from Spies from other country ? US ? NATO ?
Any extrenal object ? like UFO (If i am not crazy !!!)
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if not campground, campsite? Yes. hmmm...one of the less likely explanations eh? so no definitive answer to this one? Right. i'm a little confused. what are we trying to figure out here? Try to figure out the details of the situation that are known, and in particular, what makes "they left" so mysterious.


Politically, were these people Communist? Assume yes. If not, would they have still died if they had been Communist? So yes. Was the town they were headed toward still within the USSR? Still within Russia? Yes to both. Were they in the mountains purely because they were on vacation and wanted to ski? Yes. If so, did the circumstances change while they were up there? Some of them did, but not the original motivation for the trip. If not, was the vacation a front for something? No. Say, an attempt to flee? So no.

So they were in a tent, on top of a mountain, in the middle of winter, in extreme cold, and it wasn't even a designated campground? Correct. Doesn't seem like much of a vacation. No, it doesn't... Did they have more than one tent? No. Was anyone else camping in the same vicinity? No. When they left, did they take their tent(s) with them? No. Did they fail to take something else that would have helped them stay warm? Yes. Something they had in the original scenario? Yes. When we talk about a tent, this is a standard pup tent that people take camping with them? This one. A large, relatively permanent tent like they use for weddings? A circus tent? A tent with no sides, like a canopy?

Please tell me abouot following ?
Forrest Details ? Please clarify.
What things they carried with them ? Again, please clarify. Any weapon ? No.
forrest was military area ? A secret one and resulting cover-up has been suggested.
Destination distance ? 10km? This one. 50km?100km?more
Types of animals ? Again, please clarify.
Any nuclear faclity around ? A secret one has been suggested -- several of the bodies were found to be highly radioactive.
Any details about body found ? Clothes present on body ? none ? minimul ? This, for some of the people. medium ? And this. heavy(fully covered) ? And for some this.
threats from Spies from other country ? US ? NATO ? Not this.
Any extrenal object ? like UFO (If i am not crazy !!!) Even this has been suggested.

<b>
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there soldiers in the vicinity? A militia of some sort?
Is it relevant that the Urals form the border between Europe and Asia?
Is it relevant when this happened (other than that it was during the existence of the USSR)? Does it matter who was leading the country at that time?
Is technology relevant (not counting tents and skis, of course)?
Is the something else that would have kept them warm sleeping bags? Fire starting materials? Chemical warming tools (hand warmers and the like)?
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 5:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there soldiers in the vicinity? This is one theory. A militia of some sort? But not this.
Is it relevant that the Urals form the border between Europe and Asia? No.
Is it relevant when this happened (other than that it was during the existence of the USSR)? Not particularly.
Does it matter who was leading the country at that time? No.
Is technology relevant (not counting tents and skis, of course)? Noish.
Is the something else that would have kept them warm sleeping bags? Yes. Fire starting materials? Yes. Chemical warming tools (hand warmers and the like)? I don't believe so.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So I'm not sure what else we need to find out.

A group of people is camping and skiing in the Ural mountains of Russia. Something happened to scare them into leaving quickly, without their tents, sleeping bags, fire starting materials, or even some of their clothes. No one knows why, but there are a lot of theories. They all died.

It seems like the only thing left to figure out is why they left, but you've said several times that no one knows why they left. So what is left to figure out?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've just come across this puzzle and am pretty sure that i know the incident that the puzzle is referring . However I'd say given the mysterious nature of the incident, the lack of a full and widely accepted explanation, and numerous conspiracy theories it's going to be a difficult one to spoyle accurately.

Should i just go ahead and post what i'm pretty sure it is?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also I am 99.9% sure what incident this puzzle is referring to. I don't think there's much to dicover, given the fact that the details are not without controversy (maybe only, as suggested earlier, those details that make 'they left' mysterious)
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've just come across this puzzle and am pretty sure that i know the incident that the puzzle is referring . However I'd say given the mysterious nature of the incident, the lack of a full and widely accepted explanation, and numerous conspiracy theories it's going to be a difficult one to spoyle accurately.

Should i just go ahead and post what i'm pretty sure it is? Given that Noel is right that there's not much left to discover (the only thing I wanted to be explored was why "they left" should be so surprising) and that this puzzle has been running ten months anyway, go for it.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dyatlov Pass Incident?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the Dyatlov Pass incident , Nine ski hikers in the Ural Mountains abandoned their camp in the middle of the night in apparent terror, some clad only in their underwear despite sub-zero weather. Six of the hikers died of hypothermia and three by unexplained fatal injuries. Though the corpses showed no signs of struggle, one victim had a fatal skull fracture, two had major chest fractures (comparable in force to a car accident), and one was missing her tongue. The victims' clothing also contained high levels of radiation. Soviet investigators determined only that "a compelling unknown force" had caused the deaths, barring entry to the area for years thereafter.
D_gordon (D_gordon)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dyatlov Pass Incident? That's the one.

*****SPOILER*****
In January 1959, a group of ten ski hikers set out to cross the northern Ural Mountains from a settlement called Vizhai to a mountain called Otorten. One of the ten, Yuri Yudin, remained at Vizhai due to sickness, but the others departed on January 27. On February 1, the nine lost their way in a snowstorm and were forced to set up camp near the top of Kholat Syakhl. (Incidentally, in the local language, Otorten means "don't go there" and Kholat Syakhl means "mountain of the dead.")

On February 20, when eight days had passed without any word from the leader of the expedition, Igor Dyatlov, a rescue operation set out. They found the last camp of the group on February 26 on Kholat Syakhl -- the tent had been cut open from the inside and five of the bodies were found further down the mountain -- two near a dead fire, shoeless and wearing only underwear, and three more, including Dyatlov, apparently attempting to return to the camp and wearing some of the clothing from the other two. These were all concluded to have died of hypothermia. Footprints indicated that all the hikers had left the camp on foot, of their own accord.

The other four were found several months later -- they had been buried under the snow, and had serious injuries -- one had major skull damage, and two had major chest fractures. One was missing her tongue.

Aside from the inexplicableness of the situation itself -- why would experienced hikers cut open their tent from inside ("leave"), when this meant certain death in the bitter cold (-30 C) -- the deaths raised questions that have never been answered. Forensic tests showed high doses of radiation on some of the bodies. Family members claimed that the skin of the dead hikers had a strange orange tan. A group of hikers about 50 kilometers to the south on the night of February 1 reported seeing orange spheres in the night sky in the direction of Kholat Syakhl. Reports suggested the presence of scrap metal in the area, leading to speculation about a military cover-up. More mundane explanations include avalanches, but no explanation is quite convincing. The official report attributed the deaths to an "unknown compelling force" -- and banned entrance to the area for three years.

Yuri Yudin, the one survivor (by virtue of not actually going on the trip beyond Vizhai due to sickness) has said "If I had a chance to ask God just one question, it would be 'What happened to my friends that night?'"
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm guessing Aliens or some sort of nuclear expirement gone wrong. What do you think?

I've always been fascinated by this story. I particularly like Yudin's quote at the end. I mean what would you ask God if you had just one question (I know that's a line in a song)?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Youre thinking of the song "One of Us" by Joan Osborne :0)
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's the one . I remember the song very well but would have struggled to come up with Joan Osborne. It's a pretty cool track with terrific lyrics. As usual this song caused lots of controversy with some people claiming it was an attack on catholism which is nonsense IMHO. Here's my fav lyric from the song.

"If God had a face what would it look like
And would you want to see
If seeing meant that you would have to believe
In things like heaven and in jesus and the saints and all the prophets"
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm afraid I'm one of those boring people supporting one of those boring avalanche theories.

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