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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 4:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Neither could the admiral.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Churchill = the British Prime Minister? During the time he was Prime Minister?

"the admiral" = a high naval officer? British?

Navigation relevant? War? WW II?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the admiral= Nelson?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Churchill = the British Prime Minister? Yes. During the time he was Prime Minister? No.

"the admiral" = a high naval officer? Yes. British? No.

Navigation relevant? No. War? Yesish. WW II? Yope.

the admiral= Nelson? No.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Churchill - before he was Prime Minister? After? In the years between his two terms of office?

LTPF list of countries for the admiral, please.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Churchill - before he was Prime Minister? After? In the years between his two terms of office? OK, possible BLOOPER here. During the time he was Prime Minister, and indeed at anytime during his life, he couldn't have known. Be sure to specify whether this is what you are asking about.

LTPF list of countries for the admiral, please. Germany.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the admiral around at the same time as Churchill? If not, then before Churchill? After?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the admiral around at the same time as Churchill? Yes. If not, then before Churchill? After?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whan they could not have known: it was the exact same thing for both, right?
Did it become known later? Was it relevant to the war? Could the admiral have known later in his life?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whan they could not have known: it was the exact same thing for both, right? Yes.
Did it become known later? It occurred at the same time it became known, which was much later. Was it relevant to the war? No. Could the admiral have known later in his life? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a consequence of what Churchill did? Or the admiral? Or another consequence of the war? If so, was it unforeseen by them?
Was it bad? Good? Neither? Did it happen after they were dead? Did it happen at sea? Or in the UK? In Germany?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a consequence of what Churchill did? Or the admiral? Or another consequence of the war? No to these. If so, was it unforeseen by them? Yes.
Was it bad? Good? This. Neither? Did it happen after they were dead? Yes. Did it happen at sea? This. Or in the UK? In Germany?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it have anything to do with them? If so, is the connection the same to both? Was it done by humans? Did it happen in [LTPF list of seas]? Did it happen: underwater? On the water? Above water? Did it happen once? Ships relevant? Shipwrecks? Was it a discovery?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it have anything to do with them? No, with an ish. If so, is the connection the same to both? Yes. Was it done by humans? Yes. Did it happen in [LTPF list of seas]? The English Channel. Did it happen: underwater? On the water? This. Above water? Did it happen once? Yes. Ships relevant? Yes. Shipwrecks? Was it a discovery? No to both.
Mani (Mani)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the eurotunnel?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the eurotunnel? No.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the German admiral command operations against Britain? Against British ships? In WW II? Operations in the English Channel?

Did the later event inlude a British ship? More than one? A German ship? More than one? An emergency relevant? Military activities?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the German admiral command operations against Britain? Yes. Against British ships? Yes. In WW II? Yes. Operations in the English Channel? No.

Did the later event inlude a British ship? No. More than one? No. A German ship? Yes. More than one? No. An emergency relevant? Yes. Military activities? Yes.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the name of a ship relevant? If so: A British ship? German? Is the name "Churchill"? The admiral's name? Identical with the name of another ship?

Is the later event an emergency? Distress at sea? Is the German ship in distress? Or does it help someone? Another ship? Persons?

The operation against Britain: Submarines relevant? Operations of the Luftwaffe? Are the British ships involved warships? Freighters? Passenger ships?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the name of a ship relevant? Two ships. If so: A British ship? No. German? Yes. Is the name "Churchill"? Yes. The admiral's name? Yes. Identical with the name of another ship? No.

Is the later event an emergency? Yes -- look out for an FA. Distress at sea? No. Is the German ship in distress? No. Or does it help someone? Yesish. Another ship? Yesish. Persons? Yesish.

The operation against Britain: Submarines relevant? No. Operations of the Luftwaffe? No. Are the British ships involved warships? This. Freighters? Passenger ships?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the emergency a medical emergency? A fire? A crime or its results? Environmental? Caused by a natural disaster? Is someone on a ship in danger?

Is the exact nature of the admiral's operations against Britain relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the emergency a medical emergency? This. A fire? This. A crime or its results? But most importantly this. Environmental? Caused by a natural disaster? Is someone on a ship in danger? No.

Is the exact nature of the admiral's operations against Britain relevant? Not especially.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there is a fire and a medical emergency as a result of a crime? Arson? Assault? (Attempted) murder?

Do both ships work together? To help in the emergency? To help catching the criminal? Is the criminal aboard of one of the ships?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there is a fire and a medical emergency as a result of a crime? Arson? No. Assault? No. (Attempted No.) murder? Yes.

Do both ships work together? Yes. To help in the emergency? To help catching the criminal? Is the criminal aboard of one of the ships? None of these.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am a bit bewildered by some of these answers, if this is the story I think it is. Question in ROT13 follows, in order not to spoil things:

Unf guvf gb qb jvgu gur Trezna fuvc STF Yhgwraf naq gur HFF Jvafgba F Puhepuvyy?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unf guvf gb qb jvgu gur Trezna fuvc STF Yhgwraf naq gur HFF Jvafgba F Puhepuvyy? Got it on the nose. Where do you think I went wrong?
Oisin (Oisin)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

V qba'g guvax lbh unir; hayrff Jbhovg unf vagrecergrq 'gur rirag' gb ersre gb bar fvatyr vapvqrag, jurernf gurer ner gjb yvaxrq vapvqragf, gur rzretrapl naq gur vapvqrag ng frn.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This was what bewildered me:

Is the name of a ship relevant? Two ships. If so: A British ship? No. German? Yes. Is the name "Churchill"? Yes. The admiral's name? Yes.

which sounded to me as though there was a German ship named Churchill and also an admiral named Churchill (though Churchill was First Lord of the Admiralty, he was not actually an admiral).

Both of these were admittedly somewhat unlikely, and Jen was doubtless answering only that the name "Churchill" and the name of the German admiral were relevant to the puzzle. But I am an old woubit of rapidly diminishing brain, so I was confused; apologies for occasioning any similar reaction in others.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're right, Woubit; I had some trouble answering that series of questions without being misleading, and it's my own screwup. The name "Churchill" and the name of the admiral are the names of the ships.

I'll wait for Markobr - if he knows the answer to this, I'll spoil.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, January 24, 2010 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Without having decoded the ROT13, I don't really have a clue what you are talking about. It was already clear to me (well at least I believe - I home I'm not wrong) that there were two ships, a British one named "Churchill" and a German one with the name of a German admiral. I don't see, however, that this would bring me anywhere near the solution of the puzzle...
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah. I was wrong then, I reckoned you might have heard of the incident -- though I don't know how well it was publicized in Germany. It happened between two warships, the destroyers USS Winston Churchill and FGS Lutjens.

I'll spoil if anyone wants; or those of you who have avoided reading the ROT13 can try to figure out what Churchill and Lutjens didn't know, and what I find ironic about it.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I'm still interested in this one, though I haven't managed to figure out anything beyond what Markobr had (the fact that the ships were named Churchill and the admiral's name).

How about a recap, with some new questions. Please correct anything that is incorrect

There are two ships, the Churchill and the Lutjens. The ships existed sometime after Churchill and Lutjens were alive. The ships worked together to do something in the English Channel.

There is an emergency involved, and the emergency entails crime (most importantly), fire, and medical problems. Murder is involved. Is that the only crime? Or is it part of a bigger crime?

The ships did not work together to deal with the emergency or to catch the criminal. Were the ships involved in perpetrating the crime?

Is the fire on a ship? One one of the two ships named in this puzzle? Or on a third ship?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about a recap, with some new questions. Please correct anything that is incorrect

There are two ships, the Churchill and the Lutjens. The ships existed sometime after Churchill and Lutjens were alive. The ships worked together to do something in the English Channel. Correct. They joined forces in a military exercise, which was not unusual. But something else happened that was.

There is an emergency involved, and the emergency entails crime (most importantly), fire, and medical problems. Murder is involved. Is that the only crime? Or is it part of a bigger crime? This.

The ships did not work together to deal with the emergency or to catch the criminal. Correct. Were the ships involved in perpetrating the crime? No.

Is the fire on a ship? One one of the two ships named in this puzzle? Or on a third ship? None of the above. The ships were not present at the emergency.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the emergency happen at sea? On land? If on land, was it in England? In Germany? Elsewhere?

Was the absence of the ships from a particular location part of the emergency/crime?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the emergency happen at sea? On land? This. If on land, was it in England? In Germany? Elsewhere? This.

Was the absence of the ships from a particular location part of the emergency/crime? No. The ships were completely uninvolved.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter where the emergency happened? If yes, was it in Europe? Asia? The Americas? Africa? Australia?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter where the emergency happened? If yes, was it in Europe? Asia? The Americas? This. Africa? Australia?

A disaster might be a better term than an emergency, I think.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: The disaster was 9/11.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok...so on 9/11, terrorists were flying plains into the WTC and Pentagon. On 9/11, were the two ships doing training exercises? Were the training exercises related to Al Qaeda in some way? Related to terrorism?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok...so on 9/11, terrorists were flying plains into the WTC and Pentagon. On 9/11, were the two ships doing training exercises? Yes. Were the training exercises related to Al Qaeda in some way? Related to terrorism? No to both.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the training exercises before the terrorism events? simultaneous? after? relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 4:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the training exercises before the terrorism events? simultaneous? after? This. relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just checking...So they were after the terrorism events, but that's not really relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 3:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just checking...So they were after the terrorism events, but that's not really relevant? It's relevant. Not to what they were originally doing (which was training) but to what they did afterward.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At this point, I think we've bogged down. There's not much further to go (just an Aha! reaction) so I'm ready to post the spoiler, if no one objects within the next couple days.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, February 21, 2010 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm completely stuck on what else to ask. So if you want to spoil, it's fine with me. Sorry to give up, though.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shortly after 9/11, the American destroyer USS Winston Churchill was exercising with the German destroyer FGS Lutjens. At the end of the exercise, the crew of Lutjens showed sympathy by saluting the Churchill, and posted a sign reading “We Stand By You.” While the story is moving, I’m more struck by the historical irony. Lutjens was Admiral aboard the battleship Bismarck during World War II, and was killed when it was sunk by the British, who were led by Prime Minister Churchill. Neither man could have imagined that they would “meet again” under such friendly circumstances!

http://web.archive.org/web/20011008091129/http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/news/news_stories/pentstruck19.html
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops! Forgot the SPOILER!

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