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Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 20
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

we have several; they have only one, but it's the best.
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We = HAFs? HAMs? A mix? Random people? People belonging to a club/group? A company?
They = HAFs? HAMs? A mix? Random people? People belonging to a club/group? A company?
Does every one in each group know eachother? Do the groups know eachother?
Are you talking about objects? Nouns?
Is the one they have the best?
Did we/they choose how much we/they have?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We = HAFs? HAMs? H; A/M/F irrel A mix? Random people? People belonging to a club/group thisish ? A company?
They = HAFs? HAMs? H; A/M/F irrel A mix? Random people? People belonging to a club/group thisish ? A company?
Does every one in each group know eachother? irrel Do the groups know eachother? irrel
Are you talking about objects? no Nouns?yes
Is the one they have the best? yes
Did we/they choose how much we/they have? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 496
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "we" and "they" countries? Other territorial entities?

Are the "several" HAF? The "one"?

Sports relevant? Science? Business?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does "we" include everyone in the US? Is everyone on this forum part of we? Everyone on earth? Are the "we" and the "they" competing? Warring?

Are the "several" and the "one" places? People? Ideas?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "we" and "they" countries? no Other territorial entities? yes

Are the "several" HAF? no The "one"? no

Sports relevant? no Science? yesish Business? no

Does "we" include everyone in the US? yes Is everyone on this forum part of we? no Everyone on earth? no Are the "we" and the "they" competing? no; let's hope it stays that way Warring? no; ditto re:"competing"

Are the "several" and the "one" places? no People? no Ideas? no
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is we everyone in the US?
States relevant? Continents? Planets?
Are the "several" and the "one" tangible?
Is the "several" unique to America? (Could they have it?)
Are the "several" and the "one" both the same things? Is politics relevant? Disasters?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "we" all people in Northern America? In America in general?

Are the "several" geographical structures (e.g. rivers, glaciers)? Buildings? Other constructions? Machines? Animals? Plants?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is we everyone in the US? yes
States relevant? no Continents? yes Planets? no
Are the "several" and the "one" tangible? yes
Is the "several" unique to America? yope (Could they have it?) yes
Are the "several" and the "one" both the same things? yes Is politics relevant? no Disasters? no

Is "we" all people in Northern America? yes In America in general? yes

Are the "several" geographical structures (e.g. rivers, glaciers)? Buildings? Other constructions? Machines? Animals? this Plants?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does "we" include any people outside the Americas? If so, LTPF list of continents for continents with people included by "we"?

Also, LTPF list of continents for continents with people included by "they"?

"the best" - in a culinary sense?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 26
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does "we" include any people outside the Americas? noish; this is potentially misleading, and might indicate a FA...? -- please ponder other geographical distinctions, as I did when I idly mused and this puzzle dropped in If so, LTPF list of continents for continents with people included by "we"? N Amer., S. Amer... -- please see above -- I'm looking for something more succinct and specific...

Also, LTPF list of continents for continents with people included by "they"? Europe, Asia... see note above -- trying not to mislead or confuse, particularly myself -- this should put you OTRT
"the best" - in a culinary sense? no -- that's a straightforward one --
Mani (Mani)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

domesticated animal(s)? wild animal(s)?

"they have only one" - one individual? or one species (of the type of animal)?

dead animal? living animal? real animal?
Mani (Mani)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

we = "the new world"? they = "the old world"?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 27
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mani
domesticated animal(s)? wild animal(s)? this

"they have only one" - one individual? or one species (of the type of animal)this?

dead animal? living animal? real animal?this

we = "the new world"? they = "the old world"?THIS --
exactly what I was looking for; interesting to ponder the distinction re: [LTPF lists], but this puts us on firmer ground, starting with me... ;-]
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evolution relevant? Speciation? Are we talking about a group of animals that are related to one another? And the old world has one species in that group? While the new world has several species in that group?

Is the species in the old world the ancestor of some of the the species in the new world? All of the species in the new world? Or is it a descendant of one of them? If we're talking about a related group of species, did the group originate in the new world? or the old world?

Are they birds? Mammals? insects? Other arthropods? other invertebrates? reptiles? amphibians?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Evolution relevant? not here... Speciation? again, not here...Are we talking about a group of animals that are related to one another? yes And the old world has one species in that group? yes While the new world has several species in that group? yes

Is the species in the old world the ancestor of some of the the species in the new world?
All of the species in the new world?
Or is it a descendant of one of them?
If we're talking about a related group of species, did the group originate in the new world?
or the old world?
nice Qs; alas, all irrelevant

Are they birds? <--this Mammals? insects? Other arthropods? other invertebrates? reptiles? amphibians?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Flightless birds? Song birds? Aquatic birds? Penguins? Predatory birds (hawks, falcons, eagles, etc)? Migratory birds? Pigeons/Doves? Carrion eaters (vultures, crows, etc.)? Extinct birds? Parrots/Parakeets/similar? Peacocks or other birds with spectacular showy tails? Birds that are regularly eaten as food? Tropical birds? Birds that sing in a certain way? Birds that mimic other noises?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Flightless birds? Song birds? this Aquatic birds? Penguins? Predatory birds (hawks, falcons, eagles, etc)? Migratory birds? Pigeons/Doves? Carrion eaters (vultures, crows, etc.)? Extinct birds? Parrots/Parakeets/similar? Peacocks or other birds with spectacular showy tails? Birds that are regularly eaten as food? Tropical birds? Birds that sing in a certain way? thisish Birds that mimic other noises?
no to all else
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Extinction relevant?
Disease?
Bringing animals into other counties (like rabbits in Australia)?
Music inspired from bird sounds relevant?
Media relevant?
Poetry/Novel-writing relevant?
Crafts relevant?
Are mornings relevant where all the birds start twittering?
Twitter relevant?
Are we looking for a specific type of bird?
The look of the bird relevant?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...
Extinction relevant?
Disease?
Bringing animals into other counties (like rabbits in Australia)?
Music inspired from bird sounds relevant?
Media relevant?
Poetry/Novel-writing relevant?not here...
Crafts relevant?
Are mornings relevant where all the birds start twittering?
...
no to above


Twitter relevant?yesish -- but not the online form, so to speak
Are we looking for a specific type of bird? YES -- spoiler ought to fascinate
The look of the bird relevant? to birders, irrel here
Mani (Mani)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hummingbirds?
Nightingales?
Mani (Mani)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hummingbirds?
Nightingales?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Best=Best song? Most numerous? Biggest/strongest/most colorful/most gluttonous? Most anything? Or least something?
Is "best" highly subjective? Or would we probably all agree that it was?
Is it a bird of prey?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hummingbirds? no
Nightingales? no; "we" don't have these, alas...

Best=Best song? this Most numerous? Biggest/strongest/most colorful/most gluttonous? Most anything? this Or least something?
Is "best" highly subjective? no Or would we probably all agree that it was? yes; use of "the best" indicates some subjective judgment, but this is genuinely superlative - how?
Is it a bird of prey? no
ID of bird imminent...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Loudest song? Longest song? Highest song? Lowest song? Most complicated song?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Loudest song? Longest song? nearly this... Highest song? also occasionally almost this... Lowest song? Most complicated song? <--this...but not year-round, which, for this puzzle, is irrelevant
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nightingales relevant? Larks?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nightingales relevant? no; "we" don't have them...sometimes I listen to this amazing nightingale recording for sheer marvel; when I'm in the Old World, I seek them out...
Larks? no
***easter egg***
for the sake of puzzles and puzzlers, rather than have this resolve to a guessing game (that's what I'd do...[LTPF Old World Birds list]), here's something else: in the New World, the several species of related, RELEVANT bird have adjectives as part of their name, as "song sparrow," "vesper sparrow," etc... as does this bird in question, found in both Old and New World: in the New World, our fellow has an adjective, but in the Old World, the same bird has none.

[recap: still talking about the same bird!]
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, the most complicated song I know is that bird that can mimic everything (even chainsaws...), but I can't remember its name. But it doesn't matter, because you said it wasn't a mimicking bird. So do you mean that it's the bird with the most complex song that doesn't involve copying other songs?

Does the relevant adjective for the bird refer to: its song? its coloring? its pattern? its size? Is the adjective synonymous with best? Is it "best"? "Best" in another language?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, the most complicated song I know is that bird that can mimic everything (even chainsaws...), but I can't remember its name. perhaps you're thinking of the Starling? [they're the notorious mimics: chainsaws, yes, but also chugging locomotives, roaring crowds in nearby sports arenas, etc. They're lovely to look at (speckled like tapestry), but oh so common, and few would consider them "the best." Ironically, they assist people with what many regard a foolish pursuit; if those pursuers were aware of this assistance, they would welcome them, rather than shun them, as they do in my part of the world... potential puzzle there...]

But it doesn't matter, because you said it wasn't a mimicking bird. So do you mean that it's the bird with the most complex song that doesn't involve copying other songs? YES

Does the relevant adjective for the bird refer to: its song? its coloring? its pattern? its size? Is the adjective synonymous with best? Is it "best"? "Best" in another language?
NO to all..
...a reference to the easter egg, I think? as in my example, "song sparrow"? -- if so, the adjective (applied in the New World, but not the Old) is irrelevant. The little avian hero manages to have its special attributes without any modifier to its name, which suits its rather obscure and diminutive nature. The adjective's relation to what is known about the bird is obscure; none of my references explain it -- so it's a curiosity, but irrelevant, other than the irony that the bird has only one, common, unmodified name in the Old World, and seems to have been overlooked for the attribute that makes it "the best" - its special attribute appears in European folklore, though, so although they're small and obscure (yet worldwide), they have attracted some notice prior to all this attention we're giving them. Pretty common little bird, though, if that helps.

Also, as I delve through my mental archives, I can't think of another bird in the New World that has this particular adjective added to its name... for instance, "House" is a common adjective for various bird species, but there's only the one (to my perhaps-limited knowledge) bird with this adjective... or, if I'm mistaken on that, it's certainly an uncommon one... and its Latin binomial (think: "scientific name") has a curiosity about it, too... perhaps these little specks of easter egg might enable further pursuit/investigation?
You may have detected my fondness for birds; how nice to have a venue to proselytize about them, in the pedantic way of which my wife is SO weary...
I'll put *fascinating* links in the imminent spoiler, so you'll have a nice, little payoff for all your interest and efforts.
:-)
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, the most complicated song I know is that bird that can mimic everything (even chainsaws...), but I can't remember its name. perhaps you're thinking of the Starling? [they're the notorious mimics: chainsaws, yes, but also chugging locomotives, roaring crowds in nearby sports arenas, etc. They're lovely to look at (speckled like tapestry), but oh so common, and few would consider them "the best." Ironically, they assist people with what many regard a foolish pursuit; if those pursuers were aware of this assistance, they would welcome them, rather than shun them, as they do in my part of the world... potential puzzle there...]

But it doesn't matter, because you said it wasn't a mimicking bird. So do you mean that it's the bird with the most complex song that doesn't involve copying other songs? YES

Does the relevant adjective for the bird refer to: its song? its coloring? its pattern? its size? Is the adjective synonymous with best? Is it "best"? "Best" in another language?
NO to all..
...a reference to the easter egg, I think? as in my example, "song sparrow"? -- if so, the adjective (applied in the New World, but not the Old) is irrelevant. The little avian hero manages to have its special attributes without any modifier to its name, which suits its rather obscure and diminutive nature. The adjective's relation to what is known about the bird is obscure; none of my references explain it -- so it's a curiosity, but irrelevant, other than the irony that the bird has only one, common, unmodified name in the Old World, and seems to have been overlooked for the attribute that makes it "the best" - its special attribute appears in European folklore, though, so although they're small and obscure (yet worldwide), they have attracted some notice prior to all this attention we're giving them. Pretty common little bird, though, if that helps.

Also, as I delve through my mental archives, I can't think of another bird in the New World that has this particular adjective added to its name... for instance, "House" is a common adjective for various bird species, but there's only the one (to my perhaps-limited knowledge) bird with this adjective... or, if I'm mistaken on that, it's certainly an uncommon one... and its Latin binomial (think: "scientific name") has a curiosity about it, too... perhaps these little specks of easter egg might enable further pursuit/investigation?
You may have detected my fondness for birds; how nice to have a venue to proselytize about them, in the pedantic way of which my wife is SO weary...
I'll put *fascinating* links in the imminent spoiler, so you'll have a nice, little payoff for all your interest and efforts.
:-)
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nuts! formatting error message led to refresh button, which somehow led to double post! sorry, folks.
once was certainly enough for that chapter of a Russian novel...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, not a starling. I found it, it's a Lyre Bird (or lyrebird?). See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjE0Kdfos4Y . Fascinating!

That said, I do love to look at Starlings. I find them subtly beautiful. But as an ecologist, I cringe at their existence in North America. They're so invasive! But I actually didn't know they were mimics.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and to clarify: you're saying that the New World has several related species, including the one that's in the Old World? But that it has a different name in the Old and New Worlds? Correct?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 5:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
the Lyrebird is the mimic in question? Haven't checked the link.
I also cringe at the presence of Starlings - we have Bill to thank (is how I would state the circumstances of them being in the New World, were it a puzzle...)


Oh, and to clarify: you're saying that the New World has several related species, including the one that's in the Old World? yes
But that it has a different name in the Old and New Worlds? yes; it has merely a noun as a name in the Old World, but to distinguish it from all the others of its genus, we append an adjective to the name in the New World.
Correct? correct; a different name in both Worlds, as specified just now.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo - I know exactly what you mean by "we have Bill to thank," and I think that would make an excellent subject for a new puzzle. I wish I had thought of it myself. You should do that one next. =) And yes, the lyrebird is the mimic I was thinking of. The link points to a youtube video of a segment from a David Attenborough (sp?) documentary on the BBC. Truly impressive.

What size is the bird? Tiny (e.g. hummingbird or gnatcatcher)? Small (e.g. a warbler or a finch)? Medium (e.g. the size of a robin or cardinal)? Large (e.g. a pigeon)? Very large (e.g. a grouse or a pheasant)? Enormous (e.g. a hawk, ostrich, peacock, etc.)?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel - Yes, I believe I have seen Attenborough's documentary you mention; good stuff. we'll see about the other bird puzzle, eh?


What size is the bird? Tiny (e.g. hummingbird or gnatcatcher)? this; tiny, common, and nearly surprising that you didn't invoke it with these examples of size -- but I'm glad you didn't... other members of the genus run to "small" and nearly "medium" -- our singing hero is tiny, though: merely 9g.
Small (e.g. a warbler or a finch)?
Medium (e.g. the size of a robin or cardinal)? Large (e.g. a pigeon)?
Very large (e.g. a grouse or a pheasant)? Enormous (e.g. a hawk, ostrich, peacock, etc.)?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the wren?
If correct, I have a suspicion about what "it's the best" refers to, but I referenced Wikipedia so I'll hold off spoyling. Very interesting stuff, by the way.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 65
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Probably_monty_hall:
right you are...
the WREN.
As yet, I haven't seen references on the web that adequately laud this little fellow's attributes (never looked at Wikipedia, I'll confess), but please -- take a shot at spoilage.

Presently, I'm off to spend the day working in the forest, where I'll have many encounters with these charmers; will follow up your spoil with one of my own, later.
Mani (Mani)
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Post Number: 327
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wikipedia actually says this:

"The wren is also known as kuningilin "kinglet" in Old High German, a name associated with a legend of an election of the "king of birds". The bird who could fly to the highest altitude would be made king. The eagle outflew all other birds, but he was beaten by a small bird who had hidden in his plumage. This legend is already known to Aristotle (Hist. animalium 9.11) and Plinius (Naturalis hist. 10.74 ), and was taken up by medieval authors such as Johann Geiler von Kaisersberg, but it concerns Regulus, and is apparently motivated by the yellow "crown" sported by these birds (a point noted already by Ludwig Uhland). [2]"

Is that why it's "the best"?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 66
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 4:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is that why it's "the best"?
no, and slight FA; versions of the story generally refer, as your quote indicates, to the Golden-crowned Kinglet, Regulus satrapa, which looks a heck of a lot like a wren... generally (IMOE), the story is didactic, and explains the golden stripe atop the bird's head.
What makes the bird the best has been answered above,


quote:


But it doesn't matter, because you said it wasn't a mimicking bird. So do you mean that it's the bird with the most complex song that doesn't involve copying other songs? YES



very well stated, almost as if it's an extract from the bird's contract... and the name has been resolved, so here's the

* * * SPOILER * * *
"we have several; they have only one, but it's the best."

There are several WRENS in the New World, but in the Old World, there's just the one, known simply as "a Wren."
The same bird appears in the New World, but is known as the Winter Wren.
All the wrens are beguiling singers, but none as much as the Winter Wren, which sings the most complex song of all the songbirds.
The * easter egg * also mentioned a curiosity about their Latin binomial, Troglodytes troglodytes. The curiosity: both genus and species are the same word.
Not much of an easter egg, I know... I'd have expected more from it myself! :]


I refer you to Donald Kroodsma's brilliant The Singing Life of Birds; his passage on the song of these wrens working its way around the globe as the sun rises in Spring is marvelous writing about a natural miracle.

Wikipedia fascinates, too, if you haven't been there already.
be sure to listen to their song, if you find a link -- and believe me, no recording can match the sound of these songs cascading through an old-growth forest - it is holy, indeed.
Nice running along this puzzle with all of you; thanks very much for your efforts. -Y
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great stuff, Yojimbo!

Here's a little something to add to your easter egg... troglodytes also happens to be the genus designation of the chimpanzee. "Cave dweller" -- who knew?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's not a huge guy ("Gärdsmyg" in Swedish):
http://www.birds.se/images/gesmy_1K01_031018_SH.jpg
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(p_m_h...troglodytes is the species designation of chimps, not the genus. You can't have unrelated animals with the same genus).

Yojimbo - T. troglodytes probably has the same genus and species because of the fact that it is the only member of the wren genus in the Old World, so it was almost certainly the first species described in the genus. It's actually a pretty common practice: Cardinalis cardinalis (northern cardinal), Mephitis mephitis (striped skunk), and even Gorilla gorilla gorilla (a certain subspecies of gorilla). Pretty interesting stuff (to me at least).

I enjoyed this puzzle. I hadn't heard of the Winter Wren before. Most of my experience has been with the House Wren and Carolina Wren. Not that I can tell them apart... =)
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel - Thanks for the correction. I was thinking 'species' and typed 'genus'. That's what I get for trying to be a know-it-all on the internet! At least I got the capitalization right...
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel -
true, I was stretching with the easter egg, trying to dose the puzzle with some high-test, sort of turbo-charge it...
my favorite double is Nycticorax nycticorax, the black-crowned night heron. Lovely birds, too, but outside my region.
Your suggestion for the repetition in this wren's case is likely right on; I always find those doubled names "unimaginative" - I like them to add information, to tell me more of the subject's story. a tree in my area had, as its specific name, "taxifolia," (leaves like a yew), but this was changed in recent decades to "menziesii," acknowledging the first European to return samples of it. I liked it the other way.
Winter Wrens are common in my region (and, if you read up, the real singers); I saw dozens of them yesterday, hopping about in the damp ferns, making their one-note call, and -- although this becomes an inappropriate sentiment when one aspires to be a philosopher of natural history -- being really cute. Stunning birds; my favorite little ones. I spent three years of frequent time in the forest before I ever actually watched one of them singing.
oh, and Gorilla gorilla gorilla -- nice; I'll add that to my collection.
see you around the forum... you're a pretty sharp bunch of folks; humblingly so.
Yojimbo yojimbo yojimbo yojimbo

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