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Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Another family's memory of their mother is the source for this puzzle.

How did their mother use her hobby to deceive others?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is deception normally invovled in the hobby? Did she decieve them about: her wealth? Social standing? Did she get something from them? Did the hobby produce something tangible? Art relevant? Crafts?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk - welcome to my puzzle, I don't think we've met!

Is deception normally invovled in the hobby? no Did she decieve them about: her wealth? Social standing? neither Did she get something from them? no Did the hobby produce something tangible? yes Art relevant? not really Crafts? this
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the deception about her or her children?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martinfg - hi!

Was the deception about her or her children? her
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want to deceive others?
Her offspring involved?
Anybody else involved?
Is this a common hobby (tennis, cooking)
Or one of those odder hobbys? (Setting fire to jellyfishes)
If people say her doing this hobby would they be deceived? Would they know she was trying to deceive others?
The "others" specific people?
Is her profession relevant?
Mother = HAF Alive and Breathing?
Their = HAF/Ms Alive + Breathing or would they be children?
Their father relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quovynyte -hi!

Did she want to deceive others? yes
Her offspring involved? no
Anybody else involved? yes
Is this a common hobby (tennis, cooking) yes, but not those
Or one of those odder hobbys? (Setting fire to jellyfishes) nah
If people say her doing this hobby would they be deceived? no Would they know she was trying to deceive others? no
The "others" specific people? yes
Is her profession relevant? no, but beware a false assumption
Mother = HAF Alive and Breathing? 'mother' in this case refers to the lady who has just died
Their = HAF/Ms Alive + Breathing or would they be children? her children have absolutely nothing to do with the incidents involved - their only involvement is sharing this titbit regarding their mother
Their father relevant? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FYI - this puzzle and my other one (Meta Cheekiness) contain information that has come from the families of a couple of ladies who have recently died. The stories have been used in the eulogies at their funerals.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the craft: Knitting? Crocheting? Another kind of needlework (e.g. cross stitch, embroidery, etc.)? Woodworking? Basket weaving? Textile dying? Sewing? Yarn spinning? Weaving? Rug hooking? Other?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel - hi!

Was the craft: Knitting? Crocheting? Another kind of needlework (e.g. cross stitch, embroidery, etc.)? Woodworking? Basket weaving? Textile dying? Sewing? Yarn spinning? Weaving? Rug hooking? Other?
knitting
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pregnancy relevant? Was she knitting baby clothes?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the act of knitting the deception?
was the result of knitting the deception? (as in, the object she knitted was for someone or something other than what her associates might assume?)
did the deception rely upon knitting, or would some other craft have been effective?
did she need to be knitting at all, to deceive in this puzzle?
did she have a flask hidden in her knitting basket, among the yarn? discreetly engage in some other habit while knitting?
is the deception intended to benefit some other party or parties? is it intended to hinder some other party or parties?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter - hi!

Pregnancy relevant? Was she knitting baby clothes? no to both

Yojimbo - hello! We definitely haven't met before Welcome to the LTPF

was the act of knitting the deception? yes, no, I don't know - knitting had to be done, so yes
was the result of knitting the deception? (as in, the object she knitted was for someone or something other than what her associates might assume?) no
did the deception rely upon knitting, or would some other craft have been effective? some other crafts could achieve the same result, but knitting was an obvious choice in this case
did she need to be knitting at all, to deceive in this puzzle? yes but there's a false assumption lurking
did she have a flask hidden in her knitting basket, among the yarn? discreetly engage in some other habit while knitting? no to all
is the deception intended to benefit some other party or parties? yes is it intended to hinder some other party or parties? no
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne;
no, we haven't met -- I see you have been a new member for nine years; may all wear the white belt of the novice, eh? thank you for the welcome; nice place you got here -- plus, it's relentlessly rainy now, so I have been rather driven indoors... and knitting seems like a comforting thought, just now...


[recap: her children are incidental/irrelevant to the puzzle, or FA?]
but: is the deception from a time before she was a mother? continued after that? began after that? is that relevant?
was she knitting something useful? a sock or sweater? an afghan, throw, scarf, shawl, blanket [LTPF list of knitted items! lol]... crafty keychains, or similar?
was her knitting (the output) to be of benefit:
to some other party?
people she knew?
sheep!? [still raining; all sorts of Qs might seep in...]
a group of those she didn't know, such as unwed mothers?
for a jumble sale (is that the term?)?
for her church ladies group?
for "charity" at all?
of specific benefit to a specific person? ["this sweater for Seamus"]
deception ongoing? a "habit," as in, habitual? one time?
is mom's husband relevant?
"deception" precede his passage, if she's a widow?
knitting needles relevant? wool relevant (to this puzzle!)? other knitting accessories relevant?
location/time/era relevant at all?
did I skip past the FA?
is FA still lurking?
is it still raining? ohh, yes.;]
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo - yes, in the world of lateral puzzles we are all new! And sailors took to knitting to ward off the rain and sea, so not a bad idea to get started with some pointy sticks and string.

[recap: her children are incidental/irrelevant to the puzzle, or FA?] incidental and irrelevant as many children are, sigh ;-)
but: is the deception from a time before she was a mother? YES - good question continued after that? no began after that? no is that relevant? yes
was she knitting something useful? a sock or sweater? an afghan, throw, scarf, shawl, blanket [LTPF list of knitted items! lol]... crafty keychains, or similar? that wasn't stated, so the item itself was irrelevant
was her knitting (the output) to be of benefit:
to some other party? no idea, irrelevant
people she knew? ditto
sheep!? it may even have been acrylic![still raining; all sorts of Qs might seep in...]
a group of those she didn't know, such as unwed mothers? nice thought, but irrelevant
for a jumble sale (is that the term?)?
for her church ladies group? probably not, considering the answer, but on the other hand, anything was possible
for "charity" at all? ditto
of specific benefit to a specific person? ["this sweater for Seamus"] possibly - lost in the annals of history. Irrelevant, again
deception ongoing? for a while at least a "habit," as in, habitual? one time? assuredly more than once
is mom's husband relevant? no
"deception" precede his passage, if she's a widow?she was not a widow at the time of the deception
knitting needles relevant? wool relevant (to this puzzle!)? other knitting accessories relevant? just needles and a work in progress
location/time/era relevant at all? YES - good question, although we can go easy on the exact location as it was just local to where we are now
did I skip past the FA? explore the good questions and the FA will fade away
is FA still lurking? you're OTRT (on the right track) so it shouldn't last for much longer, hopefully)
is it still raining? ohh, yes.;] sorry, beyond my remit
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"may even have been acrylic": -- 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, etc?
time: h/m/s relevant? m/d/y relevant?
pattern of knitted items relevant? knitting peace signs into blankets? knitting other symbols?
is the pattern relevant to the time/era?
in other time/era, would deception be necessary/pertinent/relevant?
anything criminal involved?
anything "immoral" involved?
secrets from the past?
identities protected?
sailors relevant?
anything incidental to the act of knitting relevant? the sound of clicking needles? appearing to be knitting when actually sending discreet signals? helping someone cheat at cards?
hiding things in one's knitting bag?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she knitting at all? Or just pretending to knit? Is she using an incompletely knit item as an excuse to avoid doing something else?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

"may even have been acrylic": -- 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, etc? 40s
time: h/m/s relevant? time of day relevant m/d/y relevant? no
pattern of knitted items relevant? knitting peace signs into blankets? knitting other symbols? no to all - the item itself is irrelevant
is the pattern relevant to the time/era? no doubt it was, but irrelevant to the puzzle as I don't know what was on the needles
in other time/era, would deception be necessary/pertinent/relevant? this situation takes place throughout all ages, but the details will vary
anything criminal involved? no
anything "immoral" involved? yes, quite probably
secrets from the past? no
identities protected? no
sailors relevant? not sailors, but...
anything incidental to the act of knitting relevant? the sound of clicking needles? noappearing to be knitting OTRT when actually sending discreet signals? but no to this helping someone cheat at cards? no
hiding things in one's knitting bag? no

good progress, but the FA is still lurking
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel - hello and welcome

Is she knitting at all? NO - excellent Or just pretending to knit? YES Is she using an incompletely knit item as an excuse to avoid doing something else? no
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

soldiers relevant?
when pretending to knit, is she actually deployed as if to knit? or does she merely say she's knitting?
FA=that she was actually knitting?
likely, I think: thanks, Noel
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she deceive her spouse? children? other relatives? friends? strangers?
Were the people who were the intended beneficiaries of the deception the same who were deceived? (like: they were tricked into doing something that turned out to be favorable for them?)
Did the intended beneficiaries actually benefit?
Not sure whether this was already asked: was she deceiving by pretending to knit? or was the pretended knitting some other part of the story?
was she doing something else of relevance while pretending to knit?
Was the pretended knitting an excuse for being in a place where she otherwise was not supposed to be?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

soldiers relevant? yes
when pretending to knit, is she actually deployed as if to knit? noish or does she merely say she's knitting? yessish
FA=that she was actually knitting? part of the FA, there is still another leap to make
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner

Did she deceive her spouse? children? other relatives? this friends? strangers?
Were the people who were the intended beneficiaries of the deception the same who were deceived? (like: they were tricked into doing something that turned out to be favorable for them?) no
Did the intended beneficiaries actually benefit? whoever her knitting was for, herself or someone else, did end up with an item
Not sure whether this was already asked: was she deceiving by pretending to knit? this was her aim, yes or was the pretended knitting some other part of the story? except there is more to the story
was she doing something else of relevance while pretending to knit? YES
Was the pretended knitting an excuse for being in a place where she otherwise was not supposed to be? YES YES YES
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Public Announcement

Three yesses don't make a spioler!

Who was she deceiving?
Where did she go?
How exactly does the knitting fit into the story?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she pretending to look out the window (or other; to be where she otherwise was not supposed to be, but -- inserting motive) to see something happen? Someone or some people or some thing to arrive? depart?
Knitting was secondary (=FA?); her motive was to be where she otherwise shouldn't have been to do something else of relevance besides knitting? correct, I mean?
did she go somewhere as part of the deception?
was she deceiving H?A?M/F?
was she deceiving her mother? father? other relative? some other "authority" (boss, teacher), future husband, other Ha?M/F? boy/girlfriend(s)?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

was she pretending to look out the window (or other; to be where she otherwise was not supposed to be, but -- inserting motive) to see something happen? Someone or some people or some thing to arrive? depart? none of the above
Knitting was secondary (=FA?); her motive was to be where she otherwise shouldn't have been to do something else of relevance besides knitting? yes, but her knitting was relevant to achieve this correct, I mean?
did she go somewhere as part of the deception? YES
was she deceiving H?A?M/F?
was she deceiving her mother? father? other relative? some other "authority" (boss, teacher), future husband, other Ha?M/F? boy/girlfriend(s)?
her father - no mention was made of her mother so I presume she wasn't around at the time, or didn't mind!
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she going to meet someone?
if so, H?A?M/F?
to be where something was happening (a communist party meeting, or other...)?
was she going to work, or do some work, or do some other thing, of which her father disapproved?
to work in a brothel?
to panhandle or otherwise beg?
wartime? WWII?
was the knitting (the item or items) intended to represent that she had been doing something during the time she was where she otherwise wasn't supposed to be?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

was she going to meet someone? YES
if so, H?A?M/F? H YA M
to be where something was happening possibly (a communist party meeting, or other...)? but nothing like that
was she going to work, or do some work, or do some other thing, of which her father disapproved? yes, but not work
to work in a brothel? no
to panhandle or otherwise beg? no
wartime? WWII? yes
was the knitting (the item or items) intended to represent that she had been doing something during the time she was where she otherwise wasn't supposed to be? yes, but there is an important detail to be found here

good progress
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, so she's a teenager. Does she still live with her parents? Did she sneak away? To visit a soldier? To visit another man? To get married? To do something related to the war effort? Such as volunteer at the red cross? Or donate something?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Is this at all relevant to Jewish/Polish/etc. refugees from the Nazis?

If so, is she a member of a refugee group? Someone who is hiding/housing a refugee?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

per Noel: "...so she's a teenager..." = FA?
is she meeting her boyfriend?
is she meeting a young adult of whom her father disapproves?
does he disapprove of (can I call the young man Seamus?)'s politics? social standing? military affiliation?
did she actually knit the items that were given to others later? substitute other's knitting?
if she returned home with knitted items, had she knitted them?
were others present when she went to meet Seamus?
were they alone?
was he part of a group (squadron, etc.)?
a soldier? a pacifist?
relevant time of day: morning? noon? afternoon? evening? night? mealtime relevant?
delivery of post relevant, or other regular event?
"immoral" activity: prostitution? drugs/alcohol relevant? merely meeting a boy? (some dads, I know, just can't handle that -- personally, my daughter's suitors have to look out for themselves...)
Noel (Noel)
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Yojimbo...I took Lynne's "YA" after HAM to mean "Young Adult." Which to me is synonymous with teenager or middle schooler (e.g. the young adult section of the bookstore). I suppose it could also mean early 20-something as well, which is probably more likely since that is literally a young adult. I could be wrong about her meaning "YA" as young adult, though. Lynne, did you mean something else by it?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel: Indeed, we accord. I also took that meaning, down to "teenager," as in bookstore... but didn't want to assume she was such, as her assignation is with a HYAM, but she might be a full-on HAF, as I understand the queries and responses. I'm wary of FAs, having toted one for much of this , until you helped clear it up.
We're about to find out for sure... ;]
Is she older than Seamus? Is that relevant?
Is the "immorality" that she's meeting someone "much younger" than herself? Someone older?
Had she been alive to tell of the deception herself, would she be happy about it? Rueful? Embarrassed?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Noel

Ah, so she's a teenager.yes Does she still live with her parents? yes Did she sneak away? yes To visit a soldier? yes To visit another man? To get married? To do something related to the war effort? Such as volunteer at the red cross? Or donate something? none of the rest
Lynne (Lynne)
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Probably Monty Hall - hi and welcome!

Is this at all relevant to Jewish/Polish/etc. refugees from the Nazis? no

If so, is she a member of a refugee group? Someone who is hiding/housing a refugee? nothing like this
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

per Noel: "...so she's a teenager..." = FA? no,that's still to be worked on I'm afraid!
is she meeting her boyfriend? I don't know the finer details but she was meeting a soldier, so he may have been
is she meeting a young adult of whom her father disapproves? that's the point - it's possible that she was just hanging out with the soldiers, these finer details are irrelevant
does he disapprove of (can I call the young man Seamus?)'s politics? social standing? military affiliation? he was undoubtedly being a protective Dad and his precise reasons are lost in the annals of history
did she actually knit the items that were given to others later? yope substitute other's knitting? very close and very important. the FA is really fading away
if she returned home with knitted items, had she knitted them? NO - excellent
were others present when she went to meet Seamus? probably
were they alone? maybe
was he part of a group (squadron, etc.)? yes
a soldier? a pacifist? a soldier or as I said a bit earlier, maybe a whole group of them
relevant time of day: morning? noon? afternoon? evening? night? mealtime relevant? evening
delivery of post relevant, or other regular event? no
"immoral" activity: prostitution? drugs/alcohol relevant? merely meeting a boy? this one (some dads, I know, just can't handle that -- personally, my daughter's suitors have to look out for themselves...) remember that this was in the 1940s, but Dads can be protective of young teenagers in every generation - don't lets be too hard on him
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel

Yojimbo...I took Lynne's "YA" after HAM to mean "Young Adult." I did indeed Which to me is synonymous with teenager or middle schooler (e.g. the young adult section of the bookstore). I suppose it could also mean early 20-something as well, which is probably more likely since that is literally a young adult. I could be wrong about her meaning "YA" as young adult, though. Lynne, did you mean something else by it? nothing more than he was a conscripted soldier and the average age is around 19 but his mates may have been more or less than that
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

Is she older than Seamus? no Is that relevant? yes
Is the "immorality" that she's meeting someone "much younger" than herself? no Someone older?undoubtedly they were older than her knowing of her age at the time, any immorality would be the usual however much they 'got up to' in dark alleys, but we don't need to go further than that as I don't have precise details
Had she been alive to tell of the deception herself, would she be happy about it? considering her children know the story, and they weren't alive at the time, I'm guessing that she either told the story herself or an older member of the family passed the story on 'your mother was a little minx' type thing Rueful? probably not Embarrassed? possibly
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo...you're right, I missed that that query was about the person she was going to meet, rather than about the girl herself.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's very little left to find out, all the details are there except for one small leap, well not so much a leap as a skip. Can anybody flesh out the story?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm guessing our lass said she was off to a knitting class (teacher/pupil irrel, likely), or other gathering of knitters -- how plausible, after all, since it was her one passion -- but was really off to meet Seamus, the conscripted soldier. Dad was deceived, further enhanced by her returning with knitting to show for it -- either she'd had someone else knit it for her, or she'd snap up some thing from a jumble sale (is that the term? one Q you never answered, Lynne!), and dash home with it skewered on her needles, likely arriving just before she'd have been noticeably late.
Ironically, knitting wasn't really her passion at all; it was merely a pretext she developed so she could plausibly meet Seamus. Further ironically, her attention to knitting as the instrument of her deception aroused her interest so much that she became a lifelong knitter, and that was how they all thought of her.
Alas, no one knows what happened to Seamus.

any really relevant FAs in there? fun stuff.
skip/leap achieved?
[wait - even better - she'd unravel a bit of her own sweater, and then pretend it was her knitting project when she brought it home!]

[re:"...Dads can be protective of young teenagers in every generation - don't lets be too hard on him..." -- I am with you all the way; you bet, and who can blame them? Imagine my trepidation as my daughter approached the teen years... and imagine my relief as she proved to be a spitfire... Now, she's a brassy cookie living in Manhattan... truly, her suitors have to look after themselves; I wouldn't want to be in their shoes!
Also, I know how easy Dads can be to deceive...]

;]
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

Sorry for forgetting to answer your question of a jumble sale. A jumble sale is a sale of secondhand goods, but they're not in particularly good condition, so your earlier mention of her knitting specially for one wouldn't apply. However, they rarely get held in the evenings.

Your own suggestion of her getting someone else to knit for her is spot on! She didn't unravel a sweater of her own.

Would you care to guess who it was and how the deception was so clever that nobody else (with the possible exception of one other person) knew?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

I've just re read your posting and have to say that she didn't say that she was off to a knitting class or anything as organised as that. She used another entirely plausible explanation for where she would supposedly spend the evening. As for whether knitting was her passion, I don't know. This was wartime and knitting was commonplace in a 'make do and mend' era. She did once say to me that she used to knit (she knew of my own knitting) but she omitted this funny story!
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Irony would have it be Seamus himself.
Mother (the knitting exemplar) might have been able to tell.
Let's give "our girl"* and Seamus matching needles, which they swap (just to layer cleverness on the trick).
??

* [LTPF names of girls knitting in this puzzle]

(tongue-in-cheek chiding you about the jumble sale Q; we yanks call same a rummage sale, it would seem; same description applies -- often used as a periodic fundraiser as well, as for charity -- thanks for filling me/it in)
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

my goodness, was she off to church? the dance hall? the pub?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo

Irony would have it be Seamus himself. nah, I know that sailors knit, but not soldiers although I could be mistaken. It was someone else, anyway
Mother (the knitting exemplar) might have been able to tell. if you mean our subject's mother, then I actually wonder whether she knew about it, I don't actually know whether she was even around at the time: either way she wasn't the one to be fooled
Let's give "our girl"* and Seamus matching needles, which they swap (just to layer cleverness on the trick). it was clever all right, but Seamus didn't do the knitting.
??

* [LTPF names of girls knitting in this puzzle]only one girl knit - think carefully about that...

my goodness, was she off to church? the dance hall? the pub? probably not church, this was a teenager, probably with friends, with soldier/s during wartime. I'd go with dance hall. You had to be 21 to drink at that time (18 now)and that would be taking the risk of exposure too far!

No, keep working on it. I've actually dropped a hint within this reply
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did another girl do the knitting for her?
Did this young lady provide all girls in the group with knitwear? Did she receive something else in return?
Was there an agreement among the girls to give each other a plausible alibi for dance nights?
The puzzle statement says that "our girl" used her hobby to deceive .. as we now know that knitting was not really her hobby, is there some other hobby of her relevant?
Did she make other things that she exchanged for the knitwear?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she pretend to visit some other person together with whom she would knit? but she got the finished knitting from that person to bring home? or from another person?
Did she get the knitting done for free? or somwhow trade/pay for it?
Did the person doing the actual knitting know why Mother needed having knitting done for her?
Was the person doing the actual knitting roughly the same age as Mother? older? much older? a relative? friend? just acquaintance?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...or did Mother do the knitting herself, but at another time?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tommyp

Did another girl do the knitting for her? no..
Did this young lady provide all girls in the group with knitwear?noDid she receive something else in return? no
Was there an agreement among the girls to give each other a plausible alibi for dance nights? no
The puzzle statement says that "our girl" used her hobby to deceive .. as we now know that knitting was not really her hobby, is there some other hobby of her relevant? fair point, it's considered a hobby nowadays rather than a 'make do and mend' necessity, but I thought by calling it a hobby it would save the amount of time in finding that bit out. There is no other hobby involved
Did she make other things that she exchanged for the knitwear? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tommyp

Did she pretend to visit some other person together with whom she would knit? YES but she got the finished knitting from that person to bring home? YES or from another person? no
Did she get the knitting done for free? I'm presuming so or somwhow trade/pay for it? possibly, but irrelevant
Did the person doing the actual knitting know why Mother needed having knitting done for her? yes she did
Was the person doing the actual knitting roughly the same age as Mother? no older? yes much older? possibly a relative? YES friend? just acquaintance?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tommyp

...or did Mother do the knitting herself, but at another time?
good thinking, but no

I think though that this is enough for a spoiler
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*********** SPOILER ************

Muriel, for that was her name, used to hang her knitting bag on the door handle of her aunt's house. Her aunt would work on the knitting and Muriel would pick it up on the way home from meeting the soldier/s.

I don't know whether it was her mother's sister, but I'm guessing that if she was, her mother was in on it (assuming she was alive at the time) Anyway, I guess that her uncle wouldn't have approved. I'm imagining the scenario that her aunt would go outside to put the milk bottles out or call in the cat or something. She would pick up the knitting and put it in her pocket - to work on it that evening as though it was her own work, probably identical to what Muriel was knitting. Maybe they were doing socks for soldiers in identical coloured wool, so Uncle wouldn't think twice about it. Muriel would pick it up from outside, and have it to show her father if he was at all suspicious. Little minx!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you one and all. Good teamwork.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nice.
My little bon mot about [LTPF names of knitting girls] was just me fishing for a name for our protagonist; clearly, I had neglected to imagine that the net would catch other knitters as well...
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Neat knightly knitters - no-one knew nothing...

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