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Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Five years ago I created a puzzle type (we created lots of new puzzle types in those days) called the Idiomuzzle. It's a puzzle where the answer always is an idiom (could be a common proverb, a slang expression...). I ran five Idiomuzzles before taking a short break with them... ;-) - so this is Idiomuzzle number 6.

Only the fifth Idiomuzzle is still in the archives, it's "Idiomuzzle 5: Treatment" with the link http://www.lateralpuzzles.com/discus/messages/2928/13089.html

In that puzzle I referred to an earlier Idiomuzzle for the rules, but by following puzzle #5 you can easily see what it's all about. And you can also see that Idiomuzzles usually are Quickies - they usually don't take too long to solve.


RULES for Idiomuzzles:
  • The puzzle statement is presented using black and green words (and occasionally red).
  • The words in black are only "fillers" to complete the statement, they are of no use more than to separate the green words from each other.
  • The green words are the words to be decoded into the solution idiom. One or more (if adjacent) green words are decoded to one word in the solution.
  • Red words don't need any decoding, they are moved to the solution "as is".
  • Decoding the green words is done by finding "synonyms, near-synonyms or sound-alikes" for them - and finding the synonyms is done by standard lateral questions.
  • Only "real" lateral questions should be asked - don't ask grammar questions like if the second word should be a noun, how many letters in a word... (but we neither have minus points nor IP bans, so don't be too afraid to ask...

PUZZLE STATEMENT: Watching disinterested, he uttered "She is undesirable just like Wu Lizhu, using the damn firewater to preserve her fleeing youth".
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some more clarification: The solution idiom should have six words, "the" being the forth.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Wu Lizhu HAF? An object? A person? A place?

Firewater = alcohol? a specific type of alcohol? water from a fire hose? an oxymoron?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Is Wu Lizhu HAF? Yes An object? A person? A place?

Firewater = alcohol? Yes, but alcohol is not the actual sought word a specific type of alcohol? water from a fire hose? an oxymoron?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alcohol = spirit? Spirits?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Booze? Liquor?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Alcohol = spirit? Spirits? No, those suggestions are too "ordinary"

Noel:
Booze? Liquor? Same as above
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wu Lizhu...a Chinese woman? Other Asian nationality? Is her ethnicity/nationality relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Wu Lizhu...a Chinese woman? Yes Other Asian nationality? Is her ethnicity/nationality relevant? Yes, ethnicity and gender - so she's not only a HAF but also...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Chinese Human Adult Female? A CHAF? A China woman? A China doll? Short? Petite?

An Empress?

Is a specific ethnic group within China relevant? Or just Chinese in general?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
A Chinese Human Adult Female? A CHAF? No, but OTRT A China woman? A China doll? Short? Petite?

An Empress?

Is a specific ethnic group within China relevant? No, the other way around Or just Chinese in general?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An ethnic group that China is a part of? Asian? Oriental? Eastern?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Preserve = like store/keep/save? like maintain? like jelly/jam/marmalade? or like a life preserver?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Disinterested = bored? or maybe board (more laterally)?

For "firewater", are we looking for a brand of liquor? or a type (vodka, tequila, etc.)

Preserve = save? keep? or maybe jam? (in the sense of the noun)
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heh that was funny, we thought of those at the same time!
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
An ethnic group that China is a part of? Asian? Oriental? THIS, so... Eastern?

Probably_monty_hall:
Preserve = like store/keep/save? Yes, OTRT like maintain? like jelly/jam/marmalade? Also kind of OTRT or like a life preserver?

Biograd:
Disinterested = bored? or maybe board (more laterally)? No, have you missed out on Nimue's puzzles about good students lately? (Great help, eh?)

For "firewater", are we looking for a brand of liquor? or a type (vodka, tequila, etc.) No, another word for liqour, but not as "ordinary" as the already given suggestions

Preserve = save? Yes, also OTRT keep? or maybe jam? (in the sense of the noun)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OHAF? HOAF? OAF? OF?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
OHAF? HOAF? OAF? OF? THIS

Wu Lizhu is known from early Kung Fu movies as “The Oriental Female Fairbanks”

So now we can metamorph the puzzle statment a bit, to (remember black is only filler):

Watching disinterested, he uttered "She is undesirable just like of, using the firewater to preserve her fleeing youth".
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

undesirable as in: unattractive? worthless? unpleasant? detrimental?
disinterested: impartial?
firewater: moonshine?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
undesirable as in: unattractive? worthless? unpleasant? detrimental? None of those, and remember that the synonym you're looking for is a synonym for "is undesirable"
disinterested: impartial? OTRT
firewater: moonshine? The right type of word, but not the right one. Try getting at the answers laterally ;-)
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For disinterested: fair? distant? aloof? cold?

Does the word for "firewater" describe a particular way the liquor is manufactured? does it imply that it is illegally sold/imported? that it is low quality?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:
For disinterested: fair? THIS distant? aloof? cold?

Does the word for "firewater" describe a particular way the liquor is manufactured? does it imply that it is illegally sold/imported? that it is low quality? No to all of these

Watching fair, he uttered "She is undesirable just like of, using the firewater to preserve her fleeing youth".
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Firewater = courage? (as in "liquid courage")?

Is the word "firewater" a clue beyond being alcohol? Would "whisky" or "vodka" have worked as well?

Is undesirable --> sucks? blows? stinks?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Firewater = courage? (as in "liquid courage")? No

Is the word "firewater" a clue beyond being alcohol? Would "whisky" or "vodka" have worked as well? It's a smallish clue to what type of synonym it is. Whisky and vodka would have been unnecessarily specific but could been used (if nothing else was available), "alcohol" would have done fine and "booze" even better.

Is undesirable --> sucks? THIS blows? stinks?

Good playing! almost there!

Watching fair, he uttered "She suck just like of, using the firewater to preserve her fleeing youth".
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

firewater = poison?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
firewater = poison? Nope
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I haven't been playing having just spotted this puzzle. I know the solution . Should i spoil or will i leave it to those who've done all the work?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:
I haven't been playing having just spotted this puzzle. I know the solution . Should i spoil or will i leave it to those who've done all the work? You can always email me the answer (address in profile).
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

preserve: jar? some type of vessel?

firewater: is this word used as slang for alcohol? like 'hooch'? 'juice'?

if applicable, would the word be more likely to be uttered in a certain part of the world? or at a certain time (in history)?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

probably_monty_hall:
preserve: jar? Getting close, but... some type of vessel?

firewater: is this word used as slang for alcohol? like 'hooch'? 'juice'? Yes, it's a slang word (none of those two, though)

if applicable, would the word be more likely to be uttered in a certain part of the world? or at a certain time (in history)? Yes, I believe both the two words left are more or less "regional"
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

E-mail sent
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the final words of the answer in the same order as they are in the puzzle statement? Making the answer "Fair suck of the ___ ___"? Or are they mixed up?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

regional: swedish? northern european? european? all english-speaking countries? some other english-speaking country?

piss? piss pot?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:
E-mail sent And the answer is correct, thanks!

I should perhaps clarify my last answer to Probably_monty_hall: Both words are normal English words, not uncommon at all. But this particular use/meaning of them is as far as I know rather regional.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Are the final words of the answer in the same order as they are in the puzzle statement? This. I'm waiting with the harder variant: "Idiomuzzle/scrambled" a while. Making the answer "Fair suck of the ___ ___"? Or are they mixed up?

Probably_monty_hall:
regional: swedish? northern european? european? This, British English all english-speaking countries? some other english-speaking country?

piss? piss pot? Neither
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the last word a type of container? That holds liquid?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Is the last word a type of container? That holds liquid? YES, YES
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glass? Bowl? Tub? Crock? Jar? Bin? Mug? Gourd? Vase? Vat? Goblet?
(Crock fits the "preserve" clue best, but maybe still not all that well).
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Glass? Bowl? Tub? Crock? Jar? Bin? Mug? Gourd? Vase? Vat? Goblet? None of these, but (as you know) you're OTRT
(Crock fits the "preserve" clue best, but maybe still not all that well). No, not all that well
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the answer I have in mind is correct, the expression is not "British English" at all, but Australian English. Could you verify this, please?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woubit:
If the answer I have in mind is correct, the expression is not "British English" at all, but Australian English. Could you verify this, please?
When we (Probably_monty_hall and I) have "spoken" about "regionality" and British English it is not regarding the solution statement. It's about the use of the fifth word as a synonym for "firewater" and the sixth word as a synonym for "preserve". Both are listed as "British English, informal" and "British English" (some on-line dictionaries however only divide the English-speaking world in two parts, American English and British English - the rest).

The solution expression itself has not been touched upon. Checking it now, a very similar expression is listed as "Australian, informal" while this particular one is said to be "British, informal" - but that is in no more reliable source than the Wikipedia, so I'm not sure. We can however be sure on it being informal English...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slang for alcohol...Toddy? Tiddle? Brew? Paint? Shine? Skee? Swill? Milk? Vino? Junkst? Beast?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Slang for alcohol...Toddy? Tiddle? Brew? Paint? Shine? Skee? Swill? Milk? Vino? Junkst? Beast? We are looking for a slang word for alcohol, yes. Seems to be an endless list, the word I'm looking for gives associations to food...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tart? Bread? Nectar? Honey? Lunch?

If none of those are it, I'm done.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Tart? Bread? Nectar? Honey? Lunch? No, think more about what you put on food... please don't give up... :-)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sauce?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Noel:
Sauce? YES, that was the right slang word! Now the puzzle has just one bit left!

Watching fair, he uttered "She suck just like of, using the sauce to preserve her fleeing youth".
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ack! I feel like I should have gotten "sauce" a long time ago. That's even slang for alcohol here in the US. Oh well. Thanks for the hints!

So the last word is slang for container, right?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Noel:
So the last word is slang for container, right? Actually, no. It's no slang.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looking over my previous list, I seem to have left out...
cup? bottle?
(hmm, to bottle something is to preserve it...)

If not, is it a type of container that typically has a lid? Typically goes without a lid? If it has a lid, is it screwtop? Snap on? Latch on?

Is there a material that it is typically made out of? If so, glass? Metal? Clay/ceramic/pottery? Plastic?

Is it a specific type of beverage glass? Such as a tumbler?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
Looking over my previous list, I seem to have left out...
cup? bottle? YES
(hmm, to bottle something is to preserve it...) It sure is!

If not, is it a type of container that typically has a lid? Typically goes without a lid? If it has a lid, is it screwtop? Snap on? Latch on?

Is there a material that it is typically made out of? If so, glass? Metal? Clay/ceramic/pottery? Plastic?

Is it a specific type of beverage glass? Such as a tumbler?

****************** SPOILER ***********************

With the bottle added, the idiom is now complete.

The puzzle statement...:
Watching disinterested, he uttered "She is undesirable just like Wu Lizhu, using the firewater to preserve her fleeing youth".
...has been transformed into:
Watching fair, he uttered "She suck just like of, using the sauce to bottle her fleeing youth".

Fair suck of the sauce bottle

The Wiktionary defines it:
(British, informal) Used to inform somebody that they’re taking more than their share, etc.

There's a similar idiom, Fair suck of the sav, which Wiktionary says has the same meaning, but is Australian:
(Australian, informal) Used to inform somebody that they’re taking more than their share, etc.

Well played everyone, special thanks goes to Peter365 and Noel!

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Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: