[Alhucema] The Best Laid Schemes... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - March 2010 » [Alhucema] The Best Laid Schemes... « Previous Next »

Author Message
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Stan passed out, George remembered an old skill. It meant not much of a change for him he was to die one way or the other - but it resulted in an injury, a financial loss and a great shame.

What happened?
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
New member
Username: Fleemco198

Post Number: 331
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

him= stan or george?
he= stan or george?
did the skill have anything to do with first aid? CPR? medical training of any kind?
were stan and george in the same room? building?
how did stan pass out? due to a medical condition? Hypoxia? loss of blood?
LPTF list stan and george's age.
the injury was to whom? financial loss? great shame?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1625
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

him= stan or george? George
he= stan or george? George
did the skill have anything to do with first aid? No CPR? No medical training of any kind? No
were stan and george in the same room? No building? No
how did stan pass out? due to a medical condition? No Hypoxia? No loss of blood? No
LPTF list stan and george's age. Stan is about 65, George is about 25.
the injury was to whom? financial loss? great shame? These are not yes/no questions, are they?
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 219
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stan H? A? M? George H? A? M?
Were Stan and George together at the time? Near each other? (if so, within touching distance? 10m? 100m?)
Did Stan know George previous to this incident? Did George know Stan?
Was the injury / loss / shame Stan's?
Was the injury / loss / shame George's?
Was George going to die in the next day? week? month? year?
Was George aware of his impending death?
Was his death from natural causes?
Did Stan's passing out trigger George's memory?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1626
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stan H? A? M? Yes George H? No A?Yes M? Yes
Were Stan and George together at the time? Near each other? Yes (if so, within touching distance? 10m? Assume this 100m?)
Did Stan know George previous to this incident? No Did George know Stan? No
Was the injury / loss / shame Stan's? No
Was the injury / loss / shame George's? No
Was George going to die in the next day? Possibly week? Possibly month? Possibly year?
Was George aware of his impending death? Probably not but irr
Was his death from natural causes? Possibly
Did Stan's passing out trigger George's memory? Not exactly, but there was something else what did
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 221
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The best laid schemes... George a mouse?
If not, is George a mechanoid? an alien? a fictional animal with anthropomorphic skills? an ordinary animal?

Did the skill which George remembered involve his making something? doing something to Stan?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1627
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The best laid schemes... George a mouse? Brilliant thinking, but no
If not, is George a mechanoid? an alien? a fictional animal with anthropomorphic skills? an ordinary animal? This

Did the skill which George remembered involve his making something? If you mean "making" as "producing" then No doing something to Stan? No
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 222
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

pass out: to faint? to graduate from military academy? to distribute something?

George's skill: artistic? singing? dancing? whistling?
George as an animal: LTPF list of animals allowed?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1630
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

pass out: to faint? This to graduate from military academy? to distribute something?

George's skill: artistic? DOYD of artistic singing? dancing? whistling? No to rest
George as an animal: LTPF list of animals allowed? That would be making it too easy, wouldn't it? But OK. George is a bear.
Markobr (Markobr)
New member
Username: Markobr

Post Number: 653
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George cause Stan to pass out?

Is George a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In a circus? In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? Did he live where he lives for his whole life?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George cause Stan to pass out? Yes

Is George a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In a circus? This In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? Did he live where he lives for his whole life? Good question. No.
Markobr (Markobr)
New member
Username: Markobr

Post Number: 655
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will George die because somebody will intentionally kill him? For the reason that he proved to be dangerous?

Does Stan work for the circus? Visit the circus? Does Stan also die?

Was George previously a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? In another circus?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1636
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will George die because somebody will intentionally kill him? This is one of the possibilities For the reason that he proved to be dangerous? No

Does Stan work for the circus? Visit the circus? Does Stan also die? No to all

Was George previously a wild bear? Irr, probably not A bear in a zoological garden? No In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? No In another circus? No
Markobr (Markobr)
New member
Username: Markobr

Post Number: 658
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does George's remembering of an old skill change the way he will die? Is the old skill something he learned for a circus act? Does George use the old skill to escape? Is there something on fire?

Is George in the circus when he remembers the old skill?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1638
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does George's remembering of an old skill change the way he will die? Yes Is the old skill something he learned for a circus act? Yes Does George use the old skill to escape? Not really Is there something on fire? No

Is George in the circus when he remembers the old skill? No. Good question.
Markobr (Markobr)
New member
Username: Markobr

Post Number: 659
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George break out of the circus? Was stolen from the circus? Confiscated? Or brought to some other place by the circus people or with their consent?

Will George now that he remembered his old skill die by an intentional killing? An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness?

Would George otherwise die by an intentional killing? An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness?

Geographical location relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1641
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George break out of the circus? Was stolen from the circus? Confiscated? Or brought to some other place by the circus people or with their consent? This

Will George now that he remembered his old skill die by an intentional killing? Possibly this... An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? ...or this

Would George otherwise die by an intentional killing? Very likely An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? Possibly

Geographical location relevant? Only in general terms
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 223
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bear's skill: linked to the circus? tightrope walking? unicycling? balancing an object? balancing on an object? using some other piece of circu equipment?

Does the George make physical contact with Stan?

Are there other humans around at the time? Is one of them injured? By George directly?
Markobr (Markobr)
New member
Username: Markobr

Post Number: 661
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is George sick when he remembers the skill? Is sickness the reason why the circus people brought George to another place? Is Stan a veterinary?

Did Stan pass out because he just discovered something shocking? Because of an accident?

Was the injury / loss / shame (some of) the circus people's?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1643
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bear's skill: linked to the circus? Yes tightrope walking? unicycling? balancing an object? balancing on an object? using some other piece of circu equipment? Yes; no to rest

Does the George make physical contact with Stan? No

Are there other humans around at the time? Yes Is one of them injured? Yes By George directly? No

Is George sick when he remembers the skill? Yes Is sickness the reason why the circus people brought George to another place? Yes Is Stan a veterinary? No

Did Stan pass out because he just discovered something shocking? Yes Because of an accident? No

Was the injury / loss / shame (some of) the circus people's? No
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 224
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the shock that Stan receives linked to George? something that Stan sees? hears? reads? is told by another?
Is the subsequent shame linked to the shock?
The piece of circus equipment - is it normally associated with the circus? with music? sports? food? Is it a cage? a hoop?a bucket of water? Did George use this equipment as part of the circus show?
Did the circus act involve humans falling to the ground? (clowns?)
Did anyone do something to try and help Stan before George remembered this skill? Was it that action that triggered the memory?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1644
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the shock that Stan receives linked to George? Yes something that Stan sees? Yes hears? reads? is told by another? No to rest
Is the subsequent shame linked to the shock? No
The piece of circus equipment - is it normally associated with the circus? No with music? sports? This is closest food? Is it a cage? a hoop?a bucket of water? Neither Did George use this equipment as part of the circus show? Yes
Did the circus act involve humans falling to the ground? (clowns?) No
Did anyone do something to try and help Stan before George remembered this skill? No Was it that action that triggered the memory? No
Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
New member
Username: Fleemco198

Post Number: 333
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

could george and stan see each other? if not did he find out by some one telling him? from a news broadcast?
was the injury/loss/shame inflicted upon a bystander?
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 225
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The sports (ish): soccer? hockey? athletics? gymnastics? swimming? is it actually a sport? (Hmm, I suppose that could be a DOYD of sport...) Is it an Olympic sport? A sport which people engage in professionally?

Does the injury occur at the time of George's demonstration of his skill? Almost immediately? Within the next 5 minutes? Hour? Day?

Is the shame merely felt by an individual, or is there a public shaming? Is the shame linked to George's death?

What Stan sees that shocks him: that there is a bear there at all? what George is doing? what other people are doing to George?

And is George restrained in any way? caged? chained? on a leash?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1645
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

could george and stan see each other? Stan can see George; it is irrelevant whether George sees Stan if not did he find out by some one telling him? from a news broadcast? No to rest
was the injury/loss/shame inflicted upon a bystander? Not exactly but OTRT

The sports (ish): soccer? hockey? athletics? gymnastics? swimming? Neither is it actually a sport? (Hmm, I suppose that could be a DOYD of sport...) That's correct ;-)) Is it an Olympic sport? It is not included in the Olympic program but it is recognized by the International Olympic Committee A sport which people engage in professionally? Yes

Does the injury occur at the time of George's demonstration of his skill? Yes Almost immediately? Within the next 5 minutes? Hour? Day?

Is the shame merely felt by an individual, or is there a public shaming? This Is the shame linked to George's death? No

What Stan sees that shocks him: that there is a bear there at all? This, no to rest what George is doing? what other people are doing to George?

And is George restrained in any way? caged? chained? on a leash? Neither
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 226
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So George is unrestrained at the time. Is George being supervised at this time? or has he escaped from the circus?

Is there a specific event that triggers George's memory? Something he sees? hears? Is this linked to other people's reaction to George? to their reaction to Stan's fainting?

The skill - does it involve George picking up anything with his paws? with his mouth? The article of equipment: a ball? an item of clothing? An item for hitting a ball (racket? club? bat?) Does George keep hold of the item, or does he have to release it in some way?

Oh, and just to check: is the exact species of bear relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1670
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So George is unrestrained at the time. Correct Is George being supervised at this time? Yesish or has he escaped from the circus? No

Is there a specific event that triggers George's memory? Yes Something he sees? This hears? And this, too Is this linked to other people's reaction to George? Yes to their reaction to Stan's fainting? No

The skill - does it involve George picking up anything with his paws? Not exactly picking up, but his paws do interfere with something with his mouth? No The article of equipment: a ball? an item of clothing? An item for hitting a ball (racket? club? bat?) Neither Does George keep hold of the item, or does he have to release it in some way? Keeps hold of it

Oh, and just to check: is the exact species of bear relevant? No, just one of those which usually act in circuses
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 227
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other people expecting to see George?

Does George run towards people? climb on something? Could his skill be mistaken for a threat?

Is their current physical location relevant? Near the circus? Is any crime being committed? Military operation involved?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1674
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other people expecting to see George? Yes

Does George run towards people? Yesish climb on something? No Could his skill be mistaken for a threat? No

Is their current physical location relevant? Yes Near the circus? NoIs any crime being committed? No Military operation involved? No
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 229
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has George finished his circus career? Is he now employed in some other capacity? Do the circus owners know that George is at his current location?
Or is George there to advertise the circus?

Is he deliberately unrestrained? Could he attack the human bystanders? Are there safety measures in place?

The sport - is it a sport between opposing teams? individuals? a sport which involves a definite measure of success, such as goals scored? or one which needs a subjective judging of merit, such as diving or dancing?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1677
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has George finished his circus career? Yes Is he now employed in some other capacity? Yesish Do the circus owners know that George is at his current location? Probably but rather irr
Or is George there to advertise the circus? No

Is he deliberately unrestrained? Yes Could he attack the human bystanders? Yes Are there safety measures in place? No

The sport - is it a sport between opposing teams? Can be this individuals? or this; it encompasses quite a wide variety of disciplines a sport which involves a definite measure of success, such as goals scored? Mostly this or one which needs a subjective judging of merit, such as diving or dancing?
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 230
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the bystanders who expect to see the bear realise that he could attack them? Are they unworried because they are armed? Are they hoping to hunt bears? Does George's skill involve weapons of some sort?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1679
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the bystanders who expect to see the bear realise that he could attack them? FA Are they unworried because they are armed? Yesish Are they hoping to hunt bears? Yes Does George's skill involve weapons of some sort? No
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 231
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FA - bystander singular? Has the bystander (s) come here specifically to hunt bear? Has George been brought here for him/her/them to hunt?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1681
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FA - bystander singular? I perhaps caused some confusion - when answering your question about bystanders I meant that George would be able to attack any potential bystanders as he was unrestrained, had no muzzle etc., it did not automatically mean that the bystanders actually were there. Let us say there was one relevant bystander Has the bystander (s) come here specifically to hunt bear? Yes Has George been brought here for him/her/them to hunt? Yes
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 232
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - so George is an ex-circus bear, who has been taken to this place for an individual (A? M?) to 'hunt'. Does the individual realise that George is an ex-circus bear? or does he/she think it to be a wild bear? Is the future shame linked to people's revulsion at the idea of killing a 'tame' bear?

Is the reason for hunting George rather than a wild bear relevant? Is the individual a poor shot? A dying hunter who wants one last kill, regardless of the circumstances?

And another person, Stan, inadvertently stumbles across this scene, and faints in shock at seeing George?

Did Stan bring something relevant to the scene?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1682
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - so George is an ex-circus bear Yes, who has been taken to this place for an individual Yes (A? M? Yes, and human too) to 'hunt' Exactly. Does the individual realise that George is an ex-circus bear? No or does he/she think it to be a wild bear? This Is the future shame linked to people's revulsion at the idea of killing a 'tame' bear? Possibly-ish but there is more to it

Is the reason for hunting George rather than a wild bear relevant? Yes Is the individual a poor shot? Irr A dying hunter who wants one last kill, regardless of the circumstances? An interesting idea, but no

And another person, Stan, inadvertently stumbles across this scene Yes, and faints in shock at seeing George Yes?

Did Stan bring something relevant to the scene? Yes
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 233
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Stan bring a mode of transport with him? Motorbike? Scooter? Pedal bike? Skateboard? Skates?
Or a tool of some sort, such as a shovel? spade? pitchfork? wheelbarrow? Or some food or drink with him?
So the shame is linked to the circumstances of the hunting? Does George actually get killed by our bystander? Does someone else stumble across the scene? Does Stan retell the incident later, leading to Mr. X's shame?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1683
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Stan bring a mode of transport with him? Motorbike? This Scooter? This would work as well Pedal bike? Skateboard? Skates?
Or a tool of some sort, such as a shovel? spade? pitchfork? wheelbarrow? Or some food or drink with him? No to rest
So the shame is linked to the circumstances of the hunting? Yes Does George actually get killed by our bystander? No Does someone else stumble across the scene? No; however, there is another relevant group of people involved Does Stan retell the incident later, leading to Mr. X's shame? Possibly, but there is much more to it
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 234
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is George's skill linked to the motorbike? Can he ride it? Balance on it? Does Stan fall off his bike, and the bike continue towards George?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1684
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is George's skill linked to the motorbike? Yes Can he ride it? Yes Balance on it? Irr Does Stan fall off his bike, and the bike continue towards George? Exactly so.
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 235
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the bicycle crash into George? Or does George successfully mount it to ride? Does George then crash the motorbike into something?
This other group of people - are they involved when George rides the motorbike towards them?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1685
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the bicycle crash into George? No Or does George successfully mount it to ride? Yes Does George then crash the motorbike into something? No
This other group of people - are they involved when George rides the motorbike towards them? No, their involvement is of a different nature
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 237
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason that George was brought instead of a wild bear: are there no wild bears in the area? is the decision to hunt bear by Mr. X a spur-of-the-moment one? are Mr. X and/or the person?/people? who get George drunk?

The other group of people relevant - do they find out that Mr. X has hunted George? at the time? later? Are they the ex-owners of George? newspaper reporters? you-tube viewers?

Is it Mr X who is shamed? The people who provide George for the hunt?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1697
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason that George was brought instead of a wild bear: are there no wild bears in the area? Yope; it is OTRT but there is little more to that is the decision to hunt bear by Mr. X a spur-of-the-moment one? Yes, but beware a FA are Mr. X and/or the person?/people? who get George drunk? No

The other group of people relevant - do they find out that Mr. X has hunted George? No, and beware a FA at the time? later? Are they the ex-owners of George? newspaper reporters? you-tube viewers? No to the rest

Is it Mr X who is shamed? Very likely The people who provide George for the hunt? Definitely
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 238
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we actually know how George died? or are the facts of his death disputed?

The FAs - was the desire to hunt not initially expressed by Mr X? He just went along? or it was arranged for him without his express wish?

At the scene there are Stan (fainted), Mr. X (hunter)? and one relevant bystander? was this bystander the person who released (or part of the group who released) George?

Finally, there is another relevant group of people who were not present, but who found out about the incident?

Did George do something on the motorcycle which attracted the attention of this final group of people? Is his sickness relevant here?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1701
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we actually know how George died? Not really or are the facts of his death disputed? It is irrelevant how he actually died

The FAs - was the desire to hunt not initially expressed by Mr X? Exactly He just went along? or it was arranged for him without his express wish? Spot on.

At the scene there are Stan (fainted)Yes, Mr. X (hunter)Yes ? and one relevant bystander No? was this bystander the person who released (or part of the group who released) George? No; let us assume there is no one else present on the scene than George, Stan and X the hunter.

Finally, there is another relevant group Yes of people who were not present Yes, but who found out about the incident? Yes

Did George do something on the motorcycle which attracted the attention of this final group of people? No Is his sickness relevant here? At this stage, no
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 239
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mr X's reaction to George on the motorcycle relevant? Does he try to shoot George? Go to help Stan? Call out for help?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1703
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mr X's reaction to George on the motorcycle relevant? Essential Does he try to shoot George? No Go to help Stan? No Call out for help? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member
Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he chase George? Does George have an accident? If so, did Mr. X cause it? Is the group of people tied to an animal rights movement? Is George injured as a consequence of Mr. X's actions? Killed?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1722
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he chase George? Literally? No Does George have an accident? No If so, did Mr. X cause it? Is the group of people tied to an animal rights movement? No Is George injured as a consequence of Mr. X's actions? Killed No to both
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 241
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mr X's reaction: does he contact other people to report the amazing sight? attempt to photograph George? Video him?

Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Does he ride it for long? Ride it to where other people can see it?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1729
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mr X's reaction: does he contact other people to report the amazing sight? attempt to photograph George? Video him? Neither; however, there is a significant reaction.

Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Yes Does he ride it for long? b{Irr but probably not} Ride it to where other people can see it? Yes
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 243
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the other relevant group of people: the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle? Do we need to discover their reaction?

Does Mr.X fire his gun? (We know he doesn't try to shoot George, but he might fire it in shock, possibly injuring himself, or Stan)

Does Mr.X move from the spot? Does he have transport with him? Perhaps his own motorbike? Does he follow George?

Do we need to find out what else happens to Stan?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1730
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the other relevant group of people: the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle?No; there are no such people Do we need to discover their reaction?

Does Mr.X fire his gun? Yope (We know he doesn't try to shoot George, but he might fire it in shock Yesish to yope, possibly injuring himself Yes, or Stan) No

Does Mr.X move from the spot? No Does he have transport with him? Irr Perhaps his own motorbike? Does he follow George? No

Do we need to find out what else happens to Stan? No
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 244
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The injury inflicted on Mr.X : is it fatal? or inflict serious injuries? does it occur when he drops his gun accidentally, and it discharges?

So it is relevant where George goes; and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? Or they see the motorbike, but not George?

Does anyone see George on the bicycle, apart from Mr.X and Stan? Does anyone else see George in the immediate aftermath of the event? Do people discover the strange series of events that lead to Mr. X's injury? or do they only have Stan's (and Mr.X, if he survives) testimony?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1731
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The injury inflicted on Mr.X : is it fatal? No or inflict serious injuries? Assume no does it occur when he drops his gun accidentally, and it discharges? Yes

So it is relevant where George goes Yes; and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? No, that's not correct Or they see the motorbike, but not George?

Does anyone see George on the bicycle, apart from Mr.X and Stan? No Does anyone else see George in the immediate aftermath of the event? Irr Do people discover the strange series of events that lead to Mr. X's injury? Yes or do they only have Stan's (and Mr.X, if he survives) testimony?
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 245
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I'm confused (easily done). You said
Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Yes
Ride it to where other people can see it? Yes
the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle? No; there are no such people
and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? No, that's not correct

Are those replies correct? If so, I will think harder about what that implies.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1732
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oisin: When I answered "yes" to "ride it to where other people can see it", it was meant as a possibility (ie that he is not in an enclosed space or something along this way), not that there are other people ACTUALLY seeing him. It really does sound confusing, sorry for that.

The only two relevant people actually seeing George on the bike are Stan and Mr X.
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 246
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, attempt at recap:
Mr.X is with at least one other person, when a decision is made to go hunting bears. (Do we need to find out why they decide this? Has Mr. X hunted before? Do we need to find out why he ends up on his own at the critical point of the story?) For reasons to be determined, the person/people with Mr.X release George, an ex-circus bear. Before Mr.X can shoot George, an innocent bystander called Stan rides his motorbike on to the scene, spots George, and faints with the shock. George, to Mr.X's amazement, gets on the motorbike and rides off on it. Mr. X drops his gun, which discharges, injuring him, although not seriously. (A flesh wound, as they say? In the buttocks? arm? leg? hand?)
The circumstances behind Mr.X's injury are discovered, causing shame to Mr.X's hunting partners, and to Mr.X himself. The way in which the circumstances become public knowledge has yet to be determined.

OK: does Mr.X go to receive treatment for his injury? Is this where the story is made public? Or do others hear the gunshot, and come to find out what has happened?
Does George return to the place from which he was released? Does Stan get reunited with his motorbike?
And the reason why the people released George to be hunted: had Mr.X been searching for bear for too long, and they knew where George was kept? Did they have any connection with the current owners of George?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, attempt at recap:
Mr.X is with at least one other person, when a decision is made to go hunting bears. Yope (Do we need to find out why they decide this? Would be helpful Has Mr. X hunted before? Yes Do we need to find out why he ends up on his own at the critical point of the story? No - let us assume it was an usual routine ) For reasons to be determined, the person/people with Mr.X release George, an ex-circus bear. Yes Before Mr.X can shoot George, an innocent bystander called Stan rides his motorbike on to the scene,Yes spots George Yes, and faints with the shock Yes. George, to Mr.X's amazement No, gets on the motorbike and rides off on it. Yes Mr. X drops his gun, which discharges, injuring him, although not seriously. Yes (A flesh wound, as they say? Let us assume this, yes In the buttocks? arm? leg? hand?) Irrelevant; the relevant thing is just the fact he was injured
The circumstances behind Mr.X's injury are discovered, causing shame to Mr.X's hunting partners, and to Mr.X himself. Yes The way in which the circumstances become public knowledge has yet to be determined. In fact, they are irrelevant. It is sufficient to know that they somehow leaked to the public.

OK: does Mr.X go to receive treatment for his injury? Is this where the story is made public? Or do others hear the gunshot, and come to find out what has happened? Can be either; as said above, this is irrelevant
Does George return to the place from which he was released? Irr Does Stan get reunited with his motorbike? Irr
And the reason why the people released George to be hunted: had Mr.X been searching for bear for too long, and they knew where George was kept? Noish Did they have any connection with the current owners of George? Let us assume that "they" are his current owners

Great questions and little left to be solved. I will not be around for a while, so please be patient.
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the hope of clarifying some of the negative responses:

Was a decision made by a group to go hunting?
Was Mr X involved in making decision? Did he know the whole plan? Part of it?
Was the decision to specifically hunt bears? Was Mr.X told that he was hunting bears? Or that he was hunting something else?
Did the other members of the group want Mr.X to shoot George?
Was there some specific reason for this? Birthday? Some sort of celebration? Convince Mr.X that he could (still?) kill a bear? See for themselves whether he could?

Had Mr.X seen George before?
If so, did he recognise him? Did he like George? Was he scared of him?
Was Mr.X connected to the circus?
Did Mr.X work at the circus? With animals?
Oisin (Oisin)
New member
Username: Oisin

Post Number: 257
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mr. X was not amazed to see George mount the bicycle? Did he recognise George? Did he drop his gun from the shock of recognition? or from the shock of realising that he might have shot a tame bear? And if Mr.X does have prior knowledge of George, does the group that released George know this?

Is the other group's motive for releasing George malicious? do they dislike Mr.X? dislike George? are they hoping to blackmail Mr. X? publically shame him?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 2264
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 6:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RE the financial loss -- Was George valuable? Was someone sued? Paid restitution?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1734
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the hope of clarifying some of the negative responses:

Was a decision made by a group to go hunting? No in the sense that no group went hunting
Was Mr X involved in making decision? Noish Did he know the whole plan? No Part of it? Yesish
Was the decision to specifically hunt bears? Yes Was Mr.X told that he was hunting bears? Yes Or that he was hunting something else? No
Did the other members of the group want Mr.X to shoot George? Yes
Was there some specific reason for this? Yes Birthday? Some sort of celebration? Convince Mr.X that he could (still?) kill a bear? See for themselves whether he could? But none of these

Had Mr.X seen George before? No
If so, did he recognise him? So, no Did he like George? Irr Was he scared of him? No
Was Mr.X connected to the circus? No
Did Mr.X work at the circus? No With animals? No
Mr. X was not amazed to see George mount the bicycle? On the contrary Did he recognise George? No Did he drop his gun from the shock Yes of recognition? but not this or from the shock of realising that he might have shot a tame bear? And neither this And if Mr.X does have prior knowledge of George, does the group that released George know this?

Is the other group's motive for releasing George malicious? No do they dislike Mr.X? No dislike George? No are they hoping to blackmail Mr. X? No publically shame him? No

RE the financial loss -- Was George valuable? No Was someone sued? Possibly, but this is not the main cause of the financial loss Paid restitution? Possibly, but this is not the main cause of the financial loss
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 57
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So a group arrange for Mr X to go hunting for bears. They arrange for George to be brought out, without Mr X's knowledge, because they want him to kill George. Stan sees George, passes out, and crashes his motorbike, which George starts to ride. Mr X is surprised to see George ride the motorbike, and drops his gun in shock, injuring himself. All correct?

Do "the group" want Mr X to kill George for his own benefit? For George's? For theirs? Is this some sort of insurance scam?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1735
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So a group arrange for Mr X to go hunting for bears. They arrange for George to be brought out, without Mr X's knowledge, because they want him to kill George. Stan sees George, passes out, and crashes his motorbike, which George starts to ride. Mr X is surprised to see George ride the motorbike, and drops his gun in shock, injuring himself. All correct? So far, absolutely.

Do "the group" want Mr X to kill George for his own benefit? Yes For George's? For theirs? But mostly this Is this some sort of insurance scam? No

By the way, I like your nick very much :-))
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 59
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. It seemed an appropriate choice. :o)

Would "the group" (apart from Mr X) have got the same benefit if they'd killed George themselves? If George had died naturally? If someone other than Mr X had shot him? If Mr X had run him over? If George had escaped and died in some sort of freak accident involving an albatross? Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional?

Would George have got the same benefit from shooting a different bear? From shooting a different animal altogether, like a deer? From running George over? Would he have got the same benefit if he only thought he'd killed George? Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 2276
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mr X a poor hunter (or clumsy), and his friends want to make things easy for him, so they release George, whom they assume is an easy mark?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1738
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. It seemed an appropriate choice. :o)

Would "the group" (apart from Mr X) have got the same benefit if they'd killed George themselves? No If George had died naturally? No If someone other than Mr X had shot him? Assume no If Mr X had run him over? No If George had escaped and died in some sort of freak accident involving an albatross? No Is the expected benefit financial? This Emotional?

Would George have got the same benefit from shooting a different bear? You mean Mr. X? If so, yes From shooting a different animal altogether, like a deer? No From running George over? No Would he have got the same benefit if he only thought he'd killed George? Probably not Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional? This

Is Mr X a poor hunter (or clumsy), and his friends want to make things easy for him, so they release George, whom they assume is an easy mark? Nice thinking, but No
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 64
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I did mean Mr X. Sorry about that. I keep finding it confusing that the bear has a name, but not the hunter. Can we call him Elmer instead?

So did Mr X (or Elmer) benefit emotionally in such a way that the bear's actual death, rather than just his perception of it, was important? Was it to do with seeing the bear die? Being able to bag a bearskin to put by his fire?

Did he, by any chance, offer to pay "the group" if they found him a bear he could hunt and kill?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1739
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I did mean Mr X. Sorry about that. I keep finding it confusing that the bear has a name, but not the hunter. Can we call him Elmer instead? OK, let him be Elmer then.

So did Mr X (or Elmer) benefit emotionally in such a way that the bear's actual death, rather than just his perception of it, was important? Yesish Was it to do with seeing the bear die? No Being able to bag a bearskin to put by his fire? This is very close. Let us say that, as a hunter, he would just be happy to have shot (and killed) a bear.

Did he, by any chance, offer to pay "the group" if they found him a bear he could hunt and kill? Not exactly but very much OTRT
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 70
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Elmer ever shot a bear before? Had he shot any other animal? Did he intend to in future? Were "the group" hunters? Was this some sort of initiation? Was there a bet involved?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1740
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Elmer ever shot a bear before? Assume no Had he shot any other animal? Yes Did he intend to in future? Yes Were "the group" hunters? Yes Was this some sort of initiation? No Was there a bet involved? No
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 2290
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Elmer on safari? And the group runs it?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1744
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Elmer on safari? And the group runs it? Neither but OTRT
Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member
Username: Torquemada

Post Number: 111
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Elmer, in conversation with the hunters, express a desire to hunt a bear? Did he ask them to arrange this? Or did they suggest it? Did he offer them money just for a hunt, and trust that he'd find some bears? Or was the payment contingent on the appearance of a bear? Or even on him killing a bear? Was the money lost by the group? By Elmer? The circus?? The bike rider??? George????

Did the group have the idea of making some money out of a sick and available bear? Or did they only come up with the idea once the hunt had been suggested? Relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1779
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Elmer, in conversation with the hunters, express a desire to hunt a bear? No Did he ask them to arrange this? No Or did they suggest it? Yes Did he offer them money just for a hunt Yes, and trust that he'd find some bears? No Or was the payment contingent on the appearance of a bear? No Or even on him killing a bear? No Was the money lost by the group? Yes By Elmer? The circus?? The bike rider??? George???? No to rest

Did the group have the idea of making some money out of a sick and available bear? Exactly so Or did they only come up with the idea once the hunt had been suggested? A hunt was already pre-arranged when they came up with the idea Relevant? Yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member
Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 1335
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the group going to get a stake in whatever Elmer shot? Is Elmer famous? Such that a bear shot by him would be worth a lot?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1795
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the group going to get a stake in whatever Elmer shot? DOYD of stake Is Elmer famous? Irr, probably not Such that a bear shot by him would be worth a lot? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member
Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 1350
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But they were getting more money if Elmer shot something? Or specifically if he shot a bear? Or were they hoping to profit in some other way from the killing of George?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1821
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But they were getting more money if Elmer shot something? Probably but not so much relevant Or specifically if he shot a bear? Yes - or at least they were hoping that they would Or were they hoping to profit in some other way from the killing of George? No, just this

Almost there - if you post a short summary, I will post a Spoyler.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member
Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 1405
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Elmer, a hunter, has arranged to pay a group of other hunters to take him out on a hunt. The group owns and old circus bear, George, and suggest to Elmer that they go bear hunting. In secret, they plan on assuring the success of the hunt by releasing George, hoping that Elmer will pay them handsomely after the hunt has turned out to be such a great success.
Everything goes as planned at first, the hunters release George at the hunting grounds, and Elmer spots him. However at this time, a bystander enters the scene riding a motorcycle. When he sees the bear, he is so shocked that he passes out and falls from the vehicle. George, who rode motorcycles in the circus in his youth, remembers his old skill, mounts the bike and rides away.
Elmer is so shocked by this turn of events that he drops his weapon, which discharges and injures him.
the group of hunters never get any money for the phony hunt, and when the scandalous circumstances surrounding the event become known, all invovled are greatly shamed.
(all correct? Are they also fined or otherwise punished?)
Great puzzle!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member
Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 1828
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Elmer, a hunter, has arranged to pay a group of other hunters to take him out on a hunt. The group owns and old circus bear, George, and suggest to Elmer that they go bear hunting. In secret, they plan on assuring the success of the hunt by releasing George, hoping that Elmer will pay them handsomely after the hunt has turned out to be such a great success.
Everything goes as planned at first, the hunters release George at the hunting grounds, and Elmer spots him. However at this time, a bystander enters the scene riding a motorcycle. When he sees the bear, he is so shocked that he passes out and falls from the vehicle. George, who rode motorcycles in the circus in his youth, remembers his old skill, mounts the bike and rides away.
Elmer is so shocked by this turn of events that he drops his weapon, which discharges and injures him.
the group of hunters never get any money for the phony hunt, and when the scandalous circumstances surrounding the event become known, all invovled are greatly shamed.
(all correct? Are they also fined or otherwise punished?) Spot on. They do not need more punishment, the public shame is more than sufficient.

This is such a comprehensive

*************SPOILER****************

that I have almost nothing to add. The hunters live in one village while Elmer comes from the city. They happened to acquire George when a circus stopped in their village and called the local vet to treat their sick bear. The vet found out that the bear's condition was hopeless and proposed to put him to sleep. However, the hunters saw a chance of earning some extra money.... and you wrote the rest of the story.

Oh, and a detail - Elmer does not spot George until the latter is already riding the bike, which makes him drop the gun :-))

Thank you, Galfisk, for the excellent summary, I am glad you liked the puzzle.

And thanks everyone for participating.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: