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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2138
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The butter didn't make it better.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 599
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Betty buy some butter and she put it in her batter but the butter it was bitter so she bought some better butter?

Sorry, that was what my brain was coming up with. Alliteration relevant? Butter= Churned cream? It= a food product? An object? A situation? Was there something wrong with "it"? That the butter was expected to fix? Or was the butter just supposed to improve "it"? Did the butter make "it" worse? Were there people who were interacting with the butter? How many - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more? HAM?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2153
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Betty buy some butter and she put it in her batter but the butter it was bitter so she bought some better butter? Haha no, it's unrelated except I did think of that when coming up with the puzzle.

Sorry, that was what my brain was coming up with. Alliteration relevant? No. Butter= Churned cream? Technically, it was margarine - but assume yes. It= a food product? An object? A situation? This. Was there something wrong with "it"? Yes. That the butter was expected to fix? No. Or was the butter just supposed to improve "it"? No. Did the butter make "it" worse? Yes. Were there people who were interacting with the butter? Yesish, DYOD of "interacting" How many - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more? More. HAM? Mostly.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 602
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was honestly hoping there would be one relevant HAF so I could suggest we call her Betty. Sad. Anyway...

The group: 10+? 50+? 100+? 1000+? 10,000+? Do they all have something in common? Are they all in the same place? Is there just one relevant stick of butter? An entire brand of butter? I can't believe it's not butter? Or were there just a lot of people trying to use butter for a specific purpose, and it made things worse?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2155
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was honestly hoping there would be one relevant HAF so I could suggest we call her Betty. Sad. Anyway...

The group: 10+? 50+? Somewhere between this... 100+? ...and this. Exact number is irr. 1000+? 10,000+? Do they all have something in common? Are they all in the same place? Yes, and this is what they have in common. Is there just one relevant stick of butter? No. An entire brand of butter? No. I can't believe it's not butter? Me neither ;-) But the brand is irrelevant. Or were there just a lot of people trying to use butter for a specific purpose, No... and it made things worse? ...but the butter made things worse.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 605
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Same geographic place? LTPF list of continents? Same city/town? Same building? Cooking relevant? Was the butter being used as food? A lubricant? Was it melted? Was it supposed to be melted?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2158
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Same geographic place? Yes. LTPF list of continents? Europe. Same city/town? Same building? Yope. Cooking relevant? No. Was the butter being used as food? A lubricant? Neither at the moment. Was it melted? Yes. Was it supposed to be melted? No.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 607
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LTPF list of European countries? (Kind of cheating, but I'm lazy.) Was the butter being stored? Transported? Sold? Was it in containers? Was it being used in any way at the time of the "making worse"? Or intended to be used in a specific way in the future?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2160
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LTPF list of European countries? (Kind of cheating, but I'm lazy.) France/Italy border. Was the butter being stored? Transported? This. Sold? Was it in containers? Yes.Was it being used in any way at the time of the "making worse"? No. Or intended to be used in a specific way in the future? It was intended for food use.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 609
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Transported in a truck? Plane? Boat? Was there anything else being transported in the same vehicle? Other food? Was there a crash? A delay? A mixup? A spill? Just a hot day?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2162
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Transported in a truck? This. Plane? Boat? Was there anything else being transported in the same vehicle? Yes. Other food? This. Was there a crash? A delay? A mixup? A spill? Just a hot day? Neither, but you're OTRT.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 613
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other food... dairy? eggs? meat? produce? sweets? condiments? Does it matter?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2164
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other food... dairy? eggs? meat? produce? sweets? condiments? Does it matter? Not really. It's flour.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, so there's at least one truck full of butter and flour at the border of France and Italy. Something to do with customs? Crossing the border? Is the food being transported across the border legally? Is the truck going from France to Italy? Or Italy to France? These 50-odd people who are involved, are they truck drivers? Other motorists? Customs officials? Store owners? Potential butter buyers?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2167
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, so there's at least one truck full of butter and flour at the border of France and Italy. Yes. Something to do with customs? Crossing the border? No to both. Is the food being transported across the border legally? Yes. Is the truck going from France to Italy? This, but irr.Or Italy to France? These 50-odd people who are involved, are they truck drivers? This... Other motorists? ...and this... Customs officials? Store owners? Potential butter buyers? ...but none of these. There is a third group involved as well.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Post Number: 617
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm... is there more than one truck? Are they on the highway? Tollway? A smaller road? A bridge? A tunnel/underpass? Does all the butter remain in the truck during the course of the events?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2172
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm... is there more than one truck? Yes, but the one truck with butter and flour is the most relevant one. Are they on the highway? Tollway? A smaller road? A bridge? A tunnel This./underpass? Does all the butter remain in the truck during the course of the events? Yope.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1355
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the butter melt? And mix with the flour? Making a real mess?

Was the butter/flour being smuggled?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2177
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the butter melt? Yes. And mix with the flour? Probably/irr Making a real mess? This is not the mess I'm referring to.

Was the butter/flour being smuggled? No/irr.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the mess a physical one? Or the situation? They're in a tunnel... anything to do with height clearance? The relative darkness? How narrow it is? Construction? Something/someone that lives in the tunnel? This is actually a tunnel with a road going through it and not, say, a railway tunnel, right? And it has at least two lanes?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2192
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the mess a physical one? Or the situation? Both. They're in a tunnel... anything to do with height clearance? The relative darkness? How narrow it is? Narrowness is a contributing factor. Construction? Something/someone that lives in the tunnel? This is actually a tunnel with a road going through it and not, say, a railway tunnel, right? And it has at least two lanes? Yes, it's a two lane road tunnel.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the dropped butter cause another vehicle to lose traction?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2204
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the dropped butter cause another vehicle to lose traction? FA
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Post Number: 353
Registered: 5-2010
Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The butter melted out of the containers?
Did it come in contact with anyone?
The truck driver?
Did people see the butter?
Was the truck moving the whole time through the tunnel?
Ort was it stopped/did it stop?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The butter melted out of the containers? Irr.
Did it come in contact with anyone? No...
The truck driver?
Did people see the butter? No/irr.
There seems to be an underlying FA here.

Was the truck moving the whole time through the tunnel?
Ort was it stopped/did it stop? It stopped inside the tunnel.
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the butter make things worse for the other motorists?
The cause of the butter melting relevant?
Third group...
government officials?
pedestrians?
military?
criminals?
is the third group present in or around the tunnel?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2233
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the butter make things worse for the other motorists? Yes.
The cause of the butter melting relevant? Very.
Third group...
government officials?
pedestrians?
military?
criminals? Neither.
is the third group present in or around the tunnel? Yes.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group in vehicles? In buildings? On foot outside the tunnel? On foot inside the tunnel? Homeless people living in the tunnel?

Cause of the butter melting... the truck's refrigeration failed? Was it a refrigerated truck? Some other fault with the truck? Something the truck driver did or failed to do? Something the other motorists did or failed to do? Something the third group did or failed to do? Something weather-related?
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group human?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group in vehicles? At first. In buildings? On foot outside the tunnel? On foot inside the tunnel? Later, this. Homeless people living in the tunnel?

Cause of the butter melting... the truck's refrigeration failed? Was it a refrigerated truck? Probably, irr. Some other fault with the truck? This. Something the truck driver did or failed to do? Something the other motorists did or failed to do? Something the third group did or failed to do? Something weather-related? No to all.

Is the third group human? Yes.
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the truck overheat?
Break down in the tunnel?
Was it on fire?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the truck overheat? Yes.
Break down in the tunnel? Yesish.
Was it on fire? Yes!
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anyone injured? Did the truck stop in a way that blocked other motorists from getting through the tunnel? Did the melted butter burn? boil? spatter? Is the third group police/EMTs called to the scene?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anyone injured? Did the truck stop in a way that blocked other motorists from getting through the tunnel? Did the melted butter burn? Yes! boil? spatter? Probably, irr. Is the third group police/EMTs called to the scene? No but close!
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the truck was on fire?
And the butter made it burn harder/longer?
And there were firefighters?
that were thus having trouble putting the fire out?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the truck was on fire?
And the butter made it burn harder/longer?
And there were firefighters?
that were thus having trouble putting the fire out? Yes to all!

***SPOILER***
A truck carrying margarine and flour caught fire inside the Mont Blanc tunnel in 1999. The margarine in the truck was the fuel equivalent of 23000 liters of oil, and the fire raged for 52 hours. Firefighters were completely unable to reach the fire, and motorists behind the truck were trapped as the fumes choked their car engines. The disaster took the lives of 41 people, including one firefighter who died in the hospital, and a tunnel employee who is credited with saving at least ten of the trapped motorists. His motorcycle was found melted into the pavement.
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/MontBlanc.htm
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

52 hours! That's quite a burn. I enjoyed the puzzle.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, huge disaster, but good puzzle. Actually, I've heard that flour can act as a natural explosive akin to dynamite, so maybe it would have been just as bad if the truck had only been carrying flour.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If flour dust (or any flammable dust) is suspended in the air in the right concentration, it can indeed explode. Several grain mills have been destroyed this way, and coal dust can explode in the same fashion.
The right concentration is where enough air is present between the particles that they can burn well, but the distance between the particles is small enough that the fire can spread between them.
Why yes, I am an amateur pyromaniac ;-)

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