| Author | Message | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2682 Registered: 5-2003 |
Her attempt to murder her husband backfired. How? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1985 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did the husband die? Did she die? Or get caught? Or get injured? Did someone else relevant die? Did she try to poison him? Did she try to pin the murder on someone else? Did they have children? Relevant? Relevant which century this happened? If so, did it happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Did it happen in Ireland? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2683 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the husband die? No. Did she die? Yes. Or get caught? No. Or get injured? In the course of dying, yes. Did someone else relevant die? No. Did she try to poison him? No. Did she try to pin the murder on someone else? No. Did they have children? Unknown. Relevant? No. Relevant which century this happened? Only vaguely. If so, did it happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Assume 19th or 20th, but probably not modern. Did it happen in Ireland? Yes. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she try to kill him by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Did she die by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Was the husband injured? Did she try to burn their house down? Did she damage their house in any way? Were the husband and wife farmers? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2689 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she try to kill him by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Drowning. Did she die by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Drowning. Was the husband injured? Did she try to burn their house down? Did she damage their house in any way? No to all. Were the husband and wife farmers? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 291 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she try to drown him in a lake? Pond? Stream? Ocean? Pool? Puddle? Bathtub? Sink? Creek? Flood? Did she drown in the same body of water she tried to drown him in? Was he home at the time of the attempted murder? Was she home? Did she set a trap of some sort for him, but tripped it instead? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2690 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she try to drown him in a lake? Pond? Stream? Ocean? Pool? Puddle? Bathtub? Sink? Creek? Flood? Assume ocean or other outside body of water. Did she drown in the same body of water she tried to drown him in? Yes. Was he home at the time of the attempted murder? No. Was she home? No. Did she set a trap of some sort for him, but tripped it instead? Yes, in a sense. But the story is more complex than this alone. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 292 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was anyone else involved? Was anyone else intended to die? Was anyone else involved in the plot? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2692 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was anyone else involved? Yes. Was anyone else intended to die? No. Was anyone else involved in the plot? Not necessarily the murder part, but yes. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2667 Registered: 1-2007 |
If the answer to this question is yes I will bow out because as an Irishman I have a distinct advantage...... Are eggs relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2694 Registered: 5-2003 |
If the answer to this question is yes I will bow out because as an Irishman I have a distinct advantage...... Are eggs relevant? Yep. I reckoned you'd know this one. :p | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 304 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were the eggs being sold? Laid? Collected? Eaten? Cooked? Stolen? Was the motive for the crime something to do with the eggs? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2671 Registered: 1-2007 |
Nice puzzle Jenburdoo. I must remember to tell you something when this is solved. Although not too sure how much help the eggs reference will be. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2695 Registered: 5-2003 |
Were the eggs being sold? Laid? Collected? Eaten? This. Cooked? Irr. Stolen? No to the others. Was the motive for the crime something to do with the eggs? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 330 Registered: 4-2010 |
Eaten: by the husband? Wife? Third party? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2696 Registered: 5-2003 |
Eaten: by the husband? This. Wife? Third party? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2355 Registered: 11-2008 |
Were the eggs poisoned? Were they normal hen eggs? Is it relevant how many? Did he eat them at once, or over a longer period of time? Any legends relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2698 Registered: 5-2003 |
Were the eggs poisoned? No. Were they normal hen eggs? Yes. Is it relevant how many? No. Did he eat them at once, Assume yes. or over a longer period of time? Any legends relevant? No, it's more something that might be classed as an old wives' tale. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 411 Registered: 4-2010 |
Wild and probably wrong guess: Did she try to drown him by having him swim on a full stomach? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2700 Registered: 5-2003 |
Wild and probably wrong guess: Did she try to drown him by having him swim on a full stomach? Not a bad idea, but no. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 414 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he eat the eggs before she tried to drown him? Recently before? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2701 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he eat the eggs before she tried to drown him? Yes. Recently before? Irrelevant -- probably within a couple days. To avoid FAs, I should say there are a number of different things she could have fed him, not just eggs. Marrowbones are also mentioned in the story. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2363 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did she feed him: to cause a physical effect upon him? Someone else? Psychological? Any other people involved? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2708 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she feed him: to cause a physical effect upon him? This. Someone else? Psychological? And this, to a smaller extent. Any other people involved? Yes. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2367 Registered: 11-2008 |
The other people involved: 1?2?3? More than 5? 10? 100? Does she have a lover? If so, is he relevant? Do they have children? Relevant? The physical effect: was it to make him full? ill? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2709 Registered: 5-2003 |
The other people involved: 1?2? This.} 3? More than 5? 10? 100? Does she have a lover? If so, is he relevant? Yes to both. Do they have children? Relevant? no. The physical effect: was it to make him full? ill? Neither. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 427 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is she pregnant? With the lover's child? Is she trying to make him amorous to hide this? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2712 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is she pregnant? With the lover's child? Is she trying to make him amorous to hide this? No to all. Kids are irrelevant, remember. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 435 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the lover involved in the murder plot? Did he actively participate in the actual attempt? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2713 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the lover involved in the murder plot? Did he actively participate in the actual attempt? No to both. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2368 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is the other person involved HAF? If so, is she the husband's lover? | ||
| Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
New member Username: Emeraldink Post Number: 494 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is allergic reaction relevant? Did husband know he was fed eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2714 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the other person involved HAF? If so, is she the husband's lover? No to both. Is allergic reaction relevant? Possible, but unlikely. Did husband know he was fed eggs? Yes. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 447 Registered: 4-2010 |
Other person involved: H? A? M? Knows the husband? The wife? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2715 Registered: 5-2003 |
Other person involved: H? Yes. A? Yes. M? Irr, assume yes.} Knows the husband? No. The wife? Yes. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 498 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was this 4th person involved in the murder plot? The attempt? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2716 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was this 4th person involved in the murder plot? Yope. The attempt? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 522 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the wife's motive that she wanted to be with her lover? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2717 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the wife's motive that she wanted to be with her lover? Yes. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she push him into the water? Try to? Hold his head under water? Try to? Did she fall in the water and drown? Hit her head, fall in the water, and drown? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2718 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she push him into the water? No. Try to? Yes. Hold his head under water? No. Try to? No. Did she fall in the water and drown? Yes. Hit her head, fall in the water, and drown? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 602 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she try to push him into the water with her hands? Another object? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2720 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she try to push him into the water with her hands? This. Another object? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2385 Registered: 11-2008 |
Mm, marrowbones... makes my mouth water... But what the heck can they have in common with eggs, moreover eaten days earlier? Anyway... Any magical practices/witchcraft involved? Were the eggs just ordinary eggs, or was there anything different about them? Are just the eggs (or another kind of food) relevant, or is it rather the manner/time/location where they were eaten? Were eggs easily accessible? Did he/she had to do something extraordinary to get hold of them? Is it relevant how the eggs were prepared? Did she say something relevant to him when/after giving him the eggs? Could he have reasonably suspected there was something wrong? Did she try to push him off a cliff or some other place high above the water? Is this a true story? A well-known tale? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2724 Registered: 5-2003 |
Any magical practices/witchcraft involved? You may assume yes, though I'd call it more an old wives' tale. Were the eggs just ordinary eggs, or was there anything different about them? Ordinary. Are just the eggs (or another kind of food) relevant, Just the food. or is it rather the manner/time/location where they were eaten? Assume they were eaten at home. The manner in which they were eaten is mildly relevant (ie, knowing it won't really help you solve the puzzle), but it is unusual. Were eggs easily accessible? Assume yes. Did he/she had to do something extraordinary to get hold of them? No. Is it relevant how the eggs were prepared? No. Did she say something relevant to him when/after giving him the eggs? After. Could he have reasonably suspected there was something wrong? Yes. Did she try to push him off a cliff or some other place high above the water? No, but OTRT. Is this a true story? No. A well-known tale? Not to most, but to a certain segment of the population which includes Peter365 and me. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2386 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was he her husband for a long time before that happened? Did he attempt at her life before? Was he kind to her? Was the relevant thing she said him after giving him the eggs true? Did she say it before he had eaten them? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 618 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the lover involved with the eggs in some way? The fourth person (who I'm calling Pat)? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2727 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was he her husband for a long time before that happened? Irr. Did he attempt at her life before? No. Was he kind to her? Irr. Was the relevant thing she said him after giving him the eggs true? It wasn't really a statement of fact, so can't be called true or false. Did she say it before he had eaten them? No. Is the lover involved with the eggs in some way? No. The fourth person (who I'm calling Pat)? Yesish. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2390 Registered: 11-2008 |
Can whatever she told him be qualified as a spell? Did she refer to: the eggs? Him? Herself? Her lover? The fact he was going to die? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2778 Registered: 5-2003 |
Can whatever she told him be qualified as a spell? No. Did she refer to: the eggs? Him? This. Herself? This. Her lover? The fact he was going to die? This. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 723 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she say something like, "I'm going to kill you?" Did the husband think she was saying it in jest? That she was serious? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2781 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she say something like, "I'm going to kill you?" Yes. Did the husband think she was saying it in jest? That she was serious? This. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 731 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the husband resist her attempts (by trying not to fall in the water? Could the husband swim? The wife? Did the wife say this when about to drown her husband? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2784 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the husband resist her attempts (by trying not to fall in the water)? Yes. Could the husband swim? Irr. The wife? No. Did the wife say this when about to drown her husband? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 736 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she say this when feeding him the eggs? Before? After? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2392 Registered: 11-2008 |
Were the eggs the last meal she gave him? Did she tell him they were? I do not know why but it sounds like a topic of a song to me.... | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2788 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she say this when feeding him the eggs? Before? After? This. Were the eggs the last meal she gave him? Irr. Did she tell him they were? No. I do not know why but it sounds like a topic of a song to me.... It is. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 752 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she feed him the eggs on the same day she tried to drown him? Was the husband tired after eating them? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2795 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she feed him the eggs on the same day she tried to drown him? Probably not; exact time between the two occurrences is irrelevant. Was the husband tired after eating them? Irr. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 772 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the eggs an indirect cause of the murder attempt? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2797 Registered: 5-2003 |
Are the eggs an indirect cause of the murder attempt? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 774 Registered: 4-2010 |
Hmmm...I'm confusing myself again. Could you please recap? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2802 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hmmm...I'm confusing myself again. Could you please recap? Let's see... a woman had a lover, and so plotted to murder her husband. Her plot tangentially involved someone else who has not been identified. She fed her husband eggs and marrowbones as part of this plot, which also involved what might be considered magic or an old wives' tale. Sometime afterward, she informed her husband she intended to kill him. She attempted to drown him, but fell in herself and drowned. What did feeding her husband with these foods accomplish, and what did this have to do with her plot? Why did she die (it's not simply because she couldn't swim)? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 782 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the other person involved sell something to the husband? The wife? Sold her the eggs/marrowbones perhaps? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2806 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the other person involved sell something to the husband? The wife? Sold her the eggs/marrowbones perhaps? No to all. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 790 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was she trying to weaken him in some way? Was Person 4 (Pat) related to the wife? The husband? The wife's lover? A friend of any of the three? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2815 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was she trying to weaken him in some way? Yes. Was Person 4 (Pat) related to the wife? The husband? The wife's lover? A friend of any of the three? No to all. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 801 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was she trying to weaken him physically? Emotionally? Some other way? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2817 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was she trying to weaken him physically? Emotionally? Some other way? Hm, the first two really, though I don't know if the physical part could strictly be called "weakening". | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2397 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was Pat a wizard/witch? An innocent passer-by? A captain? Actually, does she want to throw him off the board of a ship? Did Pat help any of the three other people involved? Do them any harm? Was there a common belief relating to the eggs/marrowbones? Is the lover involved in the plot in any other way that he existed (and was the cause she wanted to murder her husband)? So she gave him the eggs and/or marrowbones (mm..) and told him he was going to die/she was going to kill him? And did not mention the food at all? Did she specify how he was going to die? Did she say something else relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2819 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was Pat a wizard/witch? No. An innocent passer-by? No. A captain? No. Actually, does she want to throw him off the board of a ship? No. Did Pat help any of the three other people involved? Yes, the wife. Do them any harm? Indirectly, the husband (though I've seen versions of the song where he helps him instead. For purposes of this puzzle, assume he doesn't). Was there a common belief relating to the eggs/marrowbones? I don't think so, but for purposes of the puzzle assume yes. Is the lover involved in the plot in any other way that he existed (and was the cause she wanted to murder her husband)? No. So she gave him the eggs and/or marrowbones (mm..) and told him he was going to die/she was going to kill him? And did not mention the food at all? Hm, how to avoid FAs... she fed him first, actively bringing his attention to the food. Afterwards, she said she would kill him (though, look out for FAs). Did she specify how he was going to die? Yope. Did she say something else relevant? No. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2399 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did the mere fact of giving eggs to her husband mean for him/her something more than just giving him food? Is it somehow linked to him dying later? Did she tell him that there was something wrong with the eggs? Is Pat a supranatural being? The devil? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2820 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the mere fact of giving eggs to her husband mean for him/her something more than just giving him food? Yes. Is it somehow linked to him dying later? Yes. Did she tell him that there was something wrong with the eggs? No. Is Pat a supranatural being? No. The devil? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2400 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is there any specific meaning attributed to eggs in the Irish folklore? Was it the first time she gave him eggs to eat? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2821 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is there any specific meaning attributed to eggs in the Irish folklore? Assume yes. Was it the first time she gave him eggs to eat? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 817 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the action of feeding him eggs symbolic of something? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2825 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the action of feeding him eggs symbolic of something? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 822 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Pat know the husband? The wife? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 823 Registered: 4-2010 |
...The lover? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2831 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does Pat know the husband? In one version of the song, but for this puzzle assume no. The wife? Yes. ...The lover? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 830 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Pat give something to the wife? Vice versa? Does that "something" help with the murder plot? Does Pat know of the murder plot? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2834 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does Pat give something to the wife? Yesish. Vice versa? No. Does that "something" help with the murder plot? Yes. Does Pat know of the murder plot? Irr, but he can guess. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 832 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the wife steal something from Pat? The eggs? Marrowbones? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2841 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does the wife steal something from Pat? No. The eggs? Marrowbones? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2402 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is the something Pat gives the wife tangible? If so, is it the eggs? Or does the wife buy the something from Pat? Can Pat/any other person reasonably assume that the wife will use it for murder? Had the wife given her husband the eggs without saying the relevant thing, would the result be the same (ie would he be able to guess she wants him dead)? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2849 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the something Pat gives the wife tangible? No. If so, is it the eggs? Or does the wife buy the something from Pat? Can Pat/any other person reasonably assume that the wife will use it for murder? Hmm, yope. Had the wife given her husband the eggs without saying the relevant thing, would the result be the same (ie would he be able to guess she wants him dead)? Under the version of the song I'm using for the puzzle, probably not. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2403 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Pat's profession/occupation relevant? The thing Pat gives to the wife: is it a spell? An advice? Actually, do spells play a role in this puzzle? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2850 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Pat's profession/occupation relevant? Yes. The thing Pat gives to the wife: is it a spell? An advice? No. Actually, do spells play a role in this puzzle? No. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2405 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Pat's profession common nowadays? Is he a farmer? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2853 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Pat's profession common nowadays? Yes. Is he a farmer? No. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2407 Registered: 11-2008 |
Let us concentrate on the eggs for a while. We have established that she gave him the eggs to produce both a psychological and a physical effect on him. The physical effect did not include poisoning. So far correct? We have also established that eggs have a specific meaning in the Irish folklore, right?. Was the physical effect to make him fat/heavy/tired? Can it be classified as a preparation for the drowning? Is there a belief that you cannot swim on a full stomach/a stomach full of eggs? Is the meaning of the eggs related rather to their relationship (eg if I give you eggs it means I don't love you anymore)? Or rather to the drowning part (if you eat eggs, chicken will hatch in your stomach and make you drown)? Was the psychological reason of what she told him: to weaken him? by making him believe she does not love him anymore? making him believe that she had cast a spell on him? that there is something wrong with the eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2856 Registered: 5-2003 |
Let us concentrate on the eggs for a while. Okay. We have established that she gave him the eggs to produce both a psychological and a physical effect on him. The physical effect did not include poisoning. So far correct? Correct. We have also established that eggs have a specific meaning in the Irish folklore, right? No. Was the physical effect to make him fat/heavy/tired? b{No.} Can it be classified as a preparation for the drowning? Yes. Is there a belief that you cannot swim on a full stomach/a stomach full of eggs? No. Is the meaning of the eggs related rather to their relationship (eg if I give you eggs it means I don't love you anymore)? No. Or rather to the drowning part (if you eat eggs, chicken will hatch in your stomach and make you drown)? No. Was the psychological reason of what she told him: to weaken him? Not really, but closest of these. by making him believe she does not love him anymore? making him believe that she had cast a spell on him? that there is something wrong with the eggs? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 903 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she want to lessen his will to live? His ability to resist when she tried to drown him? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2858 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she want to lessen his will to live? His ability to resist when she tried to drown him? Both, really. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 910 Registered: 4-2010 |
And feeding him the eggs was supposed to accomplish that? Did it? Was she trying to say that they were poor and could not afford anything more than eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2861 Registered: 5-2003 |
And feeding him the eggs was supposed to accomplish that? Yes. Did it? Depends on the version of the song, but assume yes. Was she trying to say that they were poor and could not afford anything more than eggs? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 913 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would other foods besides eggs have accomplished her purpose? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2866 Registered: 5-2003 |
Would other foods besides eggs have accomplished her purpose? Yes, since this is a fictional story. It doesn't matter what sort of food it was, really. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 917 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did eggs have a special meaning or connotation to the husband? wife? Pat? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2872 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did eggs have a special meaning or connotation to the husband? wife? Pat? Yes to the latter, of which he informed the wife. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 926 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Pat inform the wife of this before she purchased the eggs? After, but before feeding them to the husband? After he ate them? Did she eat any of the eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2874 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did Pat inform the wife of this before she purchased the eggs? This. After, but before feeding them to the husband? After he ate them? Did she eat any of the eggs? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 930 Registered: 4-2010 |
I'm assuming Pat's, um, "connotation" is why the wife bought the eggs. Is this correct? Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's will to live? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2880 Registered: 5-2003 |
I'm assuming Pat's, um, "connotation" is why the wife bought the eggs. Is this correct? Yes. Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's will to live? No, but you're flailing around the right track. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 937 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's psyche in any way? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2883 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's psyche in any way? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 941 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was part of the reason she fed him eggs that he wouldn't react as strongly to her claim that she was going to kill him? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2887 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was part of the reason she fed him eggs that he wouldn't react as strongly to her claim that she was going to kill him? No, but again, you're circling the general area. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 947 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were the eggs intended to make the husband tired? Was there something in the eggs (not a poison though)? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2891 Registered: 5-2003 |
Were the eggs intended to make the husband tired? Not this. Was there something in the eggs (not a poison though)? No. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2428 Registered: 11-2008 |
So Pat told the wife something that made her think eggs would produce a certain effect on her husband. (Was that true, or is it irrelevant?) The wife buys the eggs, gives them to her husband, tells him she was going to kill him, attempts to do so a few days later but fails and falls into the water herself. Correct? When she was trying to push him into the water, were they standing on firm ground? Were they on a ship? A pier? On a cliff/rock? It still puzzles me why she did it DAYS (and not minutes) after the eggs were eaten. Does he actually eat the eggs? Is she present when he is eating? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2894 Registered: 5-2003 |
So Pat told the wife something that made her think eggs would produce a certain effect on her husband. (Was that true, or is it irrelevant?) Depends on the version of the song. For purposes of this puzzle, assume it works. The wife buys the eggs, gives them to her husband, tells him she was going to kill him, attempts to do so a few days later The same day. but fails and falls into the water herself. Correct? When she was trying to push him into the water, were they standing on firm ground? Were they on a ship? A pier? This. On a cliff/rock? It still puzzles me why she did it DAYS (and not minutes) after the eggs were eaten. Perhaps it took time to take effect. It wasn't so very long after. Does he actually eat the eggs? Is she present when he is eating? Yes to both. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 963 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the husband physically resist his wife when she was trying to push him in? Was he able to? Does she tell her husband she's going to kill him just before she tries to do so? Just after he eats the eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2896 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the husband physically resist his wife when she was trying to push him in? No. Was he able to? Yesish. Does she tell her husband she's going to kill him just before she tries to do so? Just after he eats the eggs? No to both. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2437 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband? If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 984 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the husband physically able to resist the wife? Psychologically? Emotionally? Does she tell the husband that she will kill him, as he eats the eggs? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2897 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the husband physically able to resist the wife? This for certain; the other two depend on your interpretation of the story. Psychologically? Emotionally? Does she tell the husband that she will kill him, as he eats the eggs? No, some time after. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 991 Registered: 4-2010 |
So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns. This all correct? And I think you missed Alhucema's questions above... | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2898 Registered: 5-2003 |
Oops, thanks! Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband? Yes. If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? This. Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver? So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns. This all correct? Yes. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2899 Registered: 5-2003 |
Oops, thanks! Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband? Yes. If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? This. Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver? So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns. This all correct? Yes. Just as a hint: This puzzle, like a few of my others, is based on a folksong, and folksong logic is NOT real logic. ;) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 1007 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the eggs give her husband a headache? Did he go to sleep soon afterwards? Is that when the wife decided to toss the hubby off the pier? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2900 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did the eggs give her husband a headache? Did he go to sleep soon afterwards? Is that when the wife decided to toss the hubby off the pier? No to all. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 1013 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the husband awake throughout this entire affair? Is he in physical pain after eating the eggs? Before? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2901 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the husband awake throughout this entire affair? Yes, unless a night or two passes in the course of events. Is he in physical pain after eating the eggs? Before? No to both. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 1016 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the eggs affect a part of his head? His brain? Eyes? Ears? Mouth? Nose? *Sings* Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes. *Slaps own head* Wow, that was random. Sorry. Back to the puzzle: Or do the eggs make his head shrink/grow in size? (Trying to figure out folk-song logic at the same time...doubt I'll have much success.) | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2904 Registered: 5-2003 |
Do the eggs affect a part of his head? His brain? Eyes? This. Ears? Mouth? Nose? *Sings* Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes. Gee, thanks for the earworm! *Slaps own head* Wow, that was random. Sorry. Back to the puzzle: Or do the eggs make his head shrink/grow in size? No. (Trying to figure out folk-song logic at the same time...doubt I'll have much success.) It'll all make sense in the end. Sort of. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2443 Registered: 11-2008 |
Do the eggs make him blind? (I, too, am trying to imagine the logic of the folksongs - by the way, I LOVE Scottish and Irish folksongs - and I bet the wife speaks to Pat and he tells her something like: ....Oh give him eggs and marrowbones, Ta dada dada da, O!) | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2905 Registered: 5-2003 |
Do the eggs make him blind? Yes. (I, too, am trying to imagine the logic of the folksongs - by the way, I LOVE Scottish and Irish folksongs - and I bet the wife speaks to Pat and he tells her something like: ....Oh give him eggs and marrowbones, Ta dada dada da, O!) Yep, he does. Do you know this one, then? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2445 Registered: 11-2008 |
No, I am just guessing by the general pattern of the songs I already know. Not that I am not fighting with the temptation to google, but I will definitely resist it and keep guessing :-)). Do the eggs REALLY make him blind? And she leads him to the pier (perhaps telling him she is leading him somewhere else )and tries to push him into the water, correct? Is there some external factor which saves him? Or does she just miss him and fall in herself? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2906 Registered: 5-2003 |
Do the eggs REALLY make him blind? Yes. And she leads him to the pier Yes. (perhaps telling him she is leading him somewhere else )and tries to push him into the water, correct? Eh, close enough. She does tell him ahead of time that she plans to kill him, but it doesn't really affect her plot. Is there some external factor which saves him? Or does she just miss him and fall in herself? This. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2446 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did she eat the eggs, too (and is she blind as well)? Have we established that he did NOT fall into the water? Does she get injured when falling into the water (hit her head or something)? So the wife has a lover, and wants to get rid of her husband. Based on the information received from Pat, she gives him eggs to make him blind, tells him she is going to kill him, leads him to the pier, tries to push him into the water but falls in herself and drowns. Is there more for us to be found? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2907 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did she eat the eggs, too (and is she blind as well)? No to both. Have we established that he did NOT fall into the water? Yes. Does she get injured when falling into the water (hit her head or something)? No. So the wife has a lover, and wants to get rid of her husband. Based on the information received from Pat, she gives him eggs to make him blind, tells him she is going to kill him, leads him to the pier, tries to push him into the water but falls in herself and drowns. Is there more for us to be found? Why does he let her try to kill him? Why doesn't he rescue her? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2447 Registered: 11-2008 |
Well, I wouldn't be too keen to rescue someone who was trying to kill me, would I? Also, given he is blind, he can't see her in the water. How could he save her? (I reckon there is a big dramatic climax when she cries for help and he gives her a just-before-drowning moral lesson?) Does he know she is trying to push him into the water? Could he have saved her if he wanted to? Is he still blind at the moment when she tries to push him? Does he ever recover? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2908 Registered: 5-2003 |
Also, given he is blind, he can't see her in the water. How could he save her? (I reckon there is a big dramatic climax when she cries for help and he gives her a just-before-drowning moral lesson?) Aha! Does he know she is trying to push him into the water? Could he have saved her if he wanted to? Depends on whether a certain verse is added in -- see below. Is he still blind at the moment when she tries to push him? Does he ever recover? ******************* SPOILER ******************* There was an old woman from Wexford, In Wexford town did dwell. She loved her husband dearly, But another man twice as well. So one day she went to the doctor, Some medicine for to find, Said, "Doctor, give me something For to make me husband blind." "Oh, feed him eggs and marrowbones, And make him suck them all. It won't be so very long after That he won't see you at all." So she fed him eggs and marrowbones, And made him suck them all. It wasn't so very long after That he couldn't see the wall. Says he, I'd go and drown meself, But that might be a sin. Says she, I'll come to the water's edge, And help to push you in. The woman she stepped back a bit To rush and push him in. But the old man lightly stepped aside, And she went tumblin' in. Oh, how loudly did she yell, And how loudly did she bawl. I can't help you, old woman, says he, For I can't see you at all! Sure, sucking eggs and marrowbones Will make your husband blind. But if you want to drown him, You must creep up close behind! In a more popular variant of this song, the husband is forewarned, the trick does not work, and he can see perfectly well. He gets a pole and pushes her deeper into the water! Next puzzle you-know-where. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2689 Registered: 1-2007 |
Great stuff Jenburdoo, how did you come across this? The irony is that I was at a party the weekend before you posted this and I sang this ditty during the compulsary singsong. This is one of my old reliables along with Finnegan's Wake & The Town of Ballybay. You're right about the more popular variant of the song which after the line "For I can't see you at all" contains the lyric: "She swam and swam and swam and swam till she came to the water's brim the old man took a long larch pole and pushed her further in" and of course each 4 line verse is punctuated with a good old " With me right fol lid-der-al ar-yl, And me right fol low-rel lee". I could try and tell you how to pronounce this but it would take me all night. If all of us lateralites ever meet up somewhere I promise you all a rendition of the "Old Woman From Wexford" Irish folk songs contain endless lateral puzzle scenarios most of them pretty silly . And no Eggs & Marrowbone do NOT make you blind. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2921 Registered: 5-2003 |
I grew up listening to the Irish Rovers, the Clancy Brothers with Tommy Makem (RIP) and the Battlefield Band. Funny how so many of my favorite songs are about Irish religious strife, when I'm Jewish. My dad has a theory that someone in our family line stopped over in Dublin on their way to America. If you're planning to be in Scotland this August I'd love to meet you for lunch, 'cos I'm heading to the Edinburgh Tattoo and am hoping to visit a whole bunch of pubs for the music! | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 2449 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thank you for another great puzzle, Jenburdoo! I am glad I guessed the text more or less correctly. I must confess I love Irish and Scottish folksongs but now when I have little kids I have a problem. Whatever I try to sing to them makes them cry. Just look at the topics: woman kills her husband, mother kills her child and hangs herself, a lover wants to kill a girl but she deceives him and kills him instead... mayhem and buckets of blood put on irresistible music. Do you happen to know an Irish/Scottish folksong NOT to make my babies cry? (I still LOVE them, though.) | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2967 Registered: 5-2003 |
Pick romance/courting songs (recruiting songs work well too). My Dad sang "I'll Give To You a Paper of Pins" to my brother when he was a baby. I've also used for lullabies Gallant Forty-Twa and a few other songs - Bonny Barbry-O (a variant of Maid of Fife where no one dies), Peggy/Mary and the Soldier, Cruel War (without the last verse), Lass of Glencoe (NOT about the massacre), and Enniskillen Dragoons. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2690 Registered: 1-2007 |
You could try one of my favs which is Finnegan's Wake. It's a comedy story and although the protagonist dies in the second verse we find out in the final verse that despite all his friends assembling for his wake he is not dead at all. If you want a nice romantic one where nobody dies you could do worse than get a copy of Dainty Davey which is a Robbie Burns composition . It tells the story of a man on the run from a bunch of Dragoons who makes good use of his time by taking refuge in a young ladies bedroom. I'd recommend you listen to Luke Kelly's (Singer of the Dubliners) version . It's absolutely georgous and not in the least bit tear inducing. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2691 Registered: 1-2007 |
Forgot to say . More Celtic Folk song puzzles please. |
