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Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Registered: 6-2010
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 3:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see if I remember how to do this right.

Amy is sitting in a small, crowded room. She is in possession of something, which she gives to Brian upon seeing him. After a minute has passed, Brian gives it to Charlie. Thirty seconds later, Charlie gives it to Deidre. After a few minutes, all four depart, never to see each other again. What was being transferred?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First off, welcome to the forum!

Now then...

Does Amy give the whole of the object to Brian? And so on with each transfer? Or only part of the object? Is the "something" an object at all?

Do A/B/C/D know each other? Know about each other? Are they all human? Adult? Are they spies?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello, Balin, and thank you for the warm welcome.

Does Amy give the whole of the object to Brian? yes And so on with each transfer? yes Or only part of the object? no Is the "something" an object at all? no

Do A/B/C/D know each other? no Know about each other? no Are they all human? yes Adult? not all Are they spies? no
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1399
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 4:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Amy adult? Brian? Charlie? Deidre? Is the "something" a piece of knowledge?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Amy adult? no Brian? Charlie? Deidre? yes to all Is the "something" a piece of knowledge? no
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1404
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 4:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the gift make the recipient happy? The giver?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 4:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the gift make the recipient happy? yes The giver? the giver had relatively neutral feelings
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they all in the same room at the same time? Is it crowded with more people than the four of them? If so, are these other people relevant?

Are their jobs relevant?

Do they recognize each other easily? Do they speak to each other at any point?

Do they pass around a document? A toy? A weapon? Is the item bigger than a breadbox? Can it fit in a pocket? Is it artificial?

Is a crime being committed?

Is the location relevant?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they all in the same room at the same time? Is it crowded with more people than the four of them? If so, are these other people relevant?

Are their jobs relevant?

Do they recognize each other easily? Do they speak to each other at any point?

Do they pass around a document? A toy? A weapon? no to all Is the item bigger than a breadbox? yes Can it fit in a pocket? no Is it artificial? yes

Is a crime being committed? no

Is the location relevant? yes!
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Post Number: 17
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And, as a special treat, I will answer the first half of your questions. Curse the oppressive yoke of the textbox!

Are they all in the same room at the same time? Is it crowded with more people than the four of them? yes If so, are these other people relevant? no

Are their jobs relevant? no specific occupations are relevant, but explore this line

Do they recognize each other easily? There's no recognition as such, as they're all strangers, but explore Do they speak to each other at any point? not relevantly outside of making the offer
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they in a private home? A public place? A train station? Airport? Mall? School? Store? Indoors? Outdoors?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they in a private home? no A public place? yes A train station? Airport? Mall? School? Store? no to all Indoors? yesish Outdoors? yesish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they in a tent? A gazebo?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object changed in any way by any of the persons? Did Amy mean for Deidre to ultimately receive the object? Did they all see each other? Are any of them related? Relevant? Is Deidre Amy's mom?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Are they in a tent? no A gazebo? no

Galfisk:

Is the object changed in any way by any of the persons? outside of its possessor changing, no Did Amy mean for Deidre to ultimately receive the object? no Did they all see each other? yes, eventually Are any of them related? no Relevant? Is Deidre Amy's mom? n/a to both
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Deidre ever give away the object? Does she transport it somewhere? Keep it? Throw it away? Destroy it? Is the object money? Is it being traded?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Deidre ever give away the object? yes Does she transport it somewhere? Keep it? Throw it away? Destroy it? Is the object money? Is it being traded? no to the rest
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Charity relevant? Did Amy mean for someone else of the three to keep the object? Did they all meet specifically to take part in this transaction? Have any of them seen each other before, in a relevant fashion? Do any of the adults know beforehand that they will: receive the object? give away the object? What the object is?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could Amy have given the object directly to Deirdre, assuming she had wanted to? would this have accomplished the same final purpose (assuming there was a purpose to the whole thing)? or did each person need to touch? or see? the object in turn to fulfill the purpose?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:

Charity relevant? As in, the spirit of charity? yes Did Amy mean for someone else of the three to keep the object? for as long as they needed it, yes Did they all meet specifically to take part in this transaction? no Have any of them seen each other before, in a relevant fashion? no Do any of the adults know beforehand that they will: receive the object? give away the object? no to both What the object is? yes

Biograd:

Could Amy have given the object directly to Deirdre, assuming she had wanted to? no would this have accomplished the same final purpose (assuming there was a purpose to the whole thing)? yes or did each person need to touch? or see? the object in turn to fulfill the purpose? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a piece of clothing? Is it made from: metal? Plastic? Fabric? Wood? Rubber? Paper? Glass? Ice? Liquid? Gas? Is it on fire? Are they partaking is some kind of relay race?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a piece of clothing? Is it made from: referring to the physical aspect of what is being offered: metal? yes Plastic? Fabric? yes Wood? Rubber? Paper? Glass? Ice? Liquid? Gas? Is it on fire? no to rest Are they partaking is some kind of relay race? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an umbrella?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an umbrella? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it useful? Symbolic? Valuable? Is there any relevant writing on it? Did Amy make it? Buy it? Is it some sort of prize? Can what they're doing be called a ceremony? Can it be called "equipment"?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it useful? yes Symbolic? Valuable? Is there any relevant writing on it? Did Amy make it? Buy it? Is it some sort of prize? Can what they're doing be called a ceremony? Can it be called "equipment"? no to all else
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they givning it away because: they don't need it? Someone else needs it more? Are they all in the small, crowded room? Are there more people than them in this room? Are people in the room waiting for something?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they givning it away because: they don't need it? no Someone else needs it more? in 2 of the 3 cases Are they all in the small, crowded room? yes Are there more people than them in this room? yes, many Are people in the room waiting for something? yes
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other people waiting to receive the object? Do each of the four perform some action with or on the object before passing it along? Is the object materially altered in the end?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there is a physical object being given? but also something intangible given along with it?

Assuming so, would the intangible part best be described as a type of information? a role? the right to do something? an opportunity? (for the last three, in case it's unclear, I'm imagining something like the "talking sticks" passed around to speakers at certain kinds of meetings)

Oh, and that last comment made me think to ask: is it important that only one person have whatever is given at any moment? are there any more, equivalent things being passed around by others in the big group?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ohlala8:

Are the other people waiting to receive the object? no Do each of the four perform some action with or on the object before passing it along? yes Is the object materially altered in the end? no

Biograd:

So there is a physical object being given? yes but also something intangible given along with it? yes

Assuming so, would the intangible part best be described as a type of information? a role? no to both the right to do something? this an opportunity? and this, to a slightly lesser extent (for the last three, in case it's unclear, I'm imagining something like the "talking sticks" passed around to speakers at certain kinds of meetings) similar sort of vein, yes

Oh, and that last comment made me think to ask: is it important that only one person have whatever is given at any moment? yes! (per example of that which is being given) are there any more, equivalent things being passed around by others in the big group? yes!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object used: for protection? For fun? Comfort? Out of neccessity? Is there something added to it? Removed from it? Do all of the people present get one of the objects at some point? Is that why they're there? Is religion relevant? Public transportation? Relevant where in the world this is happening? Or when?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object used: for protection? For fun? Comfort? this Out of neccessity? arguably this Is there something added to it? no Removed from it? no Do all of the people present get one of the objects at some point? no Is that why they're there? each person is there with the hopes of getting this item, but understand that they may not Is religion relevant? no Public transportation? yes! Relevant where in the world this is happening? no Or when? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 10:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they uncomfortable? Does the object provide: cooling? Shade? Are they waiting for transportation? Does the object have anything to do with the transportation? Is the transport: bus? Train? Plane? Ship? Taxi? Are they queueing? Will only persons getting the item be allowed onto the transport?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they uncomfortable? discomfort is a factor in the solution Does the object provide: cooling? Shade? neither Are they waiting for transportation? no Does the object have anything to do with the transportation? yes! Is the transport: bus? this Train? Plane? Ship? Taxi? Are they queueing? no Will only persons getting the item be allowed onto the transport? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they on a bus? Is the bus the "small, crowded room"?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they on a bus? yes Is the bus the "small, crowded room"? yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the bus rolling? Is the object normal equipment on buses? Is it passed around in preparation for getting off the bus? Is the object provided by the bus driver? It's only made of fabric and metal, correct? Is the type of fabric relevant? The type of metal? Can it be called a device? A machine? A gadget? Relevant how long the bus trip has lasted? Is the bus uncomfortably: hot? Cold? Noisy? Dark? Bright? Smelly? Motion sickness relevant?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the bus rolling? yes Is the object normal equipment on buses? yes Is it passed around in preparation for getting off the bus? no Is the object provided by the bus driver? no It's only made of fabric and metal, correct? Talking about the physical aspect of what is being offered: yes Is the type of fabric relevant? The type of metal? neither Can it be called a device? A machine? A gadget? none of the above Relevant how long the bus trip has lasted? yes Is the bus uncomfortably: hot? Cold? Noisy? Dark? Bright? Smelly? not relevantly so Motion sickness relevant? no
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a city bus? A greyhound or other long-range public bus? A school bus? A chartered coach bus? Has the trip lasted more than 10 minutes? half an hour? an hour? 2 hours? 5 hours? 10 hours? a day? two days? a week?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the objects stay put and the people move between them? Are the objects an especially comfy row of seats that the people are fighting over?

(Looking back, I notice that the object was never said to have been handed, carried, passed, etc., even though we've all probably assumed that it could be)
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or is it just a seat, period? Is the bus very crowded? And the people, in turn, give up their seat for someone who needs it more? such as someone old, disabled, injured, or pregnant?
Alternativepants (Alternativepants)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or is it just a seat, period? YES Is the bus very crowded? yes And the people, in turn, give up their seat for someone who needs it more? yes! such as someone old, disabled, injured, or pregnant? yes!

****** SPOILER ******

A seat on a crowded bus. Amy, a schoolgirl, gives up her seat for Brian, a young fare-paying adult. A minute later, the bus stops and Charlie, a pensioner, gets on. Brian gives up his seat to Charlie. 30 seconds later it gets to another stop, at which the heavily pregnant Deidre boards the bus. Charlie gives up his seat for her. After a few minutes, they all reach the key destination of the bus route (say, a railway station or CBD near schools, shops and offices) and alight.


Interestingly enough, in the time it takes me to type out the solution to this puzzle, I may miss the bus I need to catch to work :P

Finally,

(Looking back, I notice that the object was never said to have been handed, carried, passed, etc., even though we've all probably assumed that it could be) And that's what makes a lateral puzzle!
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Looking back, I notice that the object was never said to have been handed, carried, passed, etc., even though we've all probably assumed that it could be) And that's what makes a lateral puzzle!

Yes, indeed!

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