| Author | Message | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 521 Registered: 5-2010 |
If there had been fewer people around, she wouldn't have been killed. She = HAF | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2010 |
This sounds familiar. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3608 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is she some kind of wonderful, yes she is, she is? But seriously... Is her cause of death relevant? Was she murdered? Killed accidentally? Suicide? Did the "more people" cause her death? Directly? Indirectly? People: Adults? Children? Teens? Mixed? Male? Female? Mixed? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 523 Registered: 5-2010 |
This sounds familiar. The puzzle itself? It's not anything I've heard before, but that doesn't mean it's not out there! Is she some kind of wonderful, yes she is, she is? I'm talkin, talkin bout my baby... But seriously... Is her cause of death relevant? yes-ish Was she murdered? yes Killed accidentally? Suicide? Did the "more people" cause her death? Directly? not directly Indirectly? yope People: Adults? Children? Teens? Mixed? Male? Female? Mixed? Don't know exactly, probably a mix of everyone | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3610 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the murderer HAM? HAF? Part of the group of people? Was the cause of death [LTPF lists of untimely deaths]? Were the people witnesses to the crime? Did they prevent her from fleeing from the killer? Location relevant? Were they indoors? Outdoors? In a public place? A public building? A theater? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 101 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the title relevant? Did the people witness the crime? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3129 Registered: 9-2009 |
Were the people a crowd? Did the murderer use the crowd to: get close to the victim? Escape afterwards? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 524 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the murderer HAM? this HAF? Part of the group of people? yope Was the cause of death [LTPF lists of untimely deaths]? Stabbing Were the people witnesses to the crime? yes Did they prevent her from fleeing from the killer? no Location relevant? sort of Were they indoors? yes, some Outdoors? yes, some In a public place? yes, some A public building? no A theater? no Is the title relevant? only somewhat Did the people witness the crime? yes, and that is pretty much the extent of the title's relevance. Were the people a crowd? not really, if by crowd you mean people all pushed close together Did the murderer use the crowd to: get close to the victim? Escape afterwards? no to both | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3138 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was she killed outside? In a public place? In a building? If there were fewer people: would the murder not have been attempted? Would someone have stopped it? would the victim have been able to get away? Or defend herself? Or would she not have been there in the first place? Did she die immedietely? Or could she have been saved if she had gotten medical help? Did this happen in modern times? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 528 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was she killed outside? yes In a public place? yes In a building? no If there were fewer people: would the murder not have been attempted? It would have still been attempted Would someone have stopped it? yes! would the victim have been able to get away? only because of the above Or defend herself? no Or would she not have been there in the first place? she would have been there Did she die immedietely? yope Or could she have been saved if she had gotten medical help? no, not exactly Did this happen in modern times? yes | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3140 Registered: 9-2009 |
Possible spoiler emailed. | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 529 Registered: 5-2010 |
Possible $poiler emailed. Correct! Good job. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3143 Registered: 9-2009 |
Cool. Sorry about using the s-word... | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 531 Registered: 5-2010 |
Yeah, you need to watch your language, Galfisk. ;) | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1222 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is there anything relevant about her? If so; Background? Family? Education? Job? Hobbies? Friends? Health? Physical appearance? Is it relevant why all those people were gathered at this location? You said location was sort of releant. Does this mean geographical location? Continent? Country? City? or type of location? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 533 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is there anything relevant about her? no, actually If so; Background? Family? Education? Job? Hobbies? Friends? Health? Physical appearance? Is it relevant why all those people were gathered at this location? no You said location was sort of relevant. Does this mean geographical location? Continent? Country? City? or type of location? this one. This is a true story, and I'll go ahead and tell you it happened in the USA, but the only thing of some amount of relevance is the type of location. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3619 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was she in a park? Stadium? Is the weather relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 543 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was she in a park? Stadium? Is the weather relevant? no to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3624 Registered: 4-2010 |
You say some of the people were inside and some were outside...were they moving from inside to out? Out to in? Or were they staying inside/outside? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 547 Registered: 5-2010 |
You say some of the people were inside and some were outside...were they moving from inside to out? Out to in? Or were they staying inside/outside? Most of them were probably staying where they were, although conceivably some might have moved (especially in to out). From what I understand of the story, most were inside. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3652 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the murderer inside? Outside? Was the victim inside? Outside? Did the murderer directly stab the victim? Or was some sort of mechanism triggered which killed her? Is the specific weapon relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 553 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the murderer inside? Outside? this Was the victim inside? Outside? this Did the murderer directly stab the victim? yes Or was some sort of mechanism triggered which killed her? no Is the specific weapon relevant? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3719 Registered: 4-2010 |
Could the people see the murder? Are windows relevant? Could they see outside? But not the murder? If there were more people, would they have been able to see the murder? See outside? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 112 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did the people stop (unintentionally) some external force or agent to help the victim? Like blocking a police car or an ambulance? The event took place within a city? Rural area? Some kind of festival or celebration relevant? Near a church? The people standing by were all of the same profession? Did they have a hobby in common? A religious belief? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 555 Registered: 5-2010 |
Could the people see the murder? yes Are windows relevant? yes, in that... Could they see outside? ...this is true But not the murder? they could see the murder If there were more people, would they have been able to see the murder? See outside? they could see both Did the people stop (unintentionally) some external force or agent to help the victim? hm, yope Like blocking a police car or an ambulance? not like this The event took place within a city? yes Rural area? Some kind of festival or celebration relevant? no Near a church? no The people standing by were all of the same profession? no Did they have a hobby in common? no A religious belief? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3754 Registered: 4-2010 |
Had there been more people, would it have been daytime? Rather than night? And they would not have been able to see? Did this take place in [LTPF list of centuries]? On [LTPF list of continents]? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2009 |
Were people merely watching what happened or was any attempt to rescue her? Would have been if fewer people were around? Were the people in a restaurant or similar? Was the victim (and consequently the murderer) on the street? Is it relevant to the solution if we differentiate the type of killing (like, for example, stabbing as opposed to sniper shooting from a rooftop one block away?) Would the outcome be the same? (i.e., if there had been fewer people around, she wouldn't have been killed) | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 557 Registered: 5-2010 |
Had there been more people, would it have been daytime? Rather than night? It already was daytime! And they would not have been able to see? Did this take place in [LTPF list of centuries]? On [LTPF list of continents]? In the US, 20th century Were people merely watching what happened or was any attempt to rescue her? They were all merely watching! Would have been if fewer people were around? Yes! Were the people in a restaurant or similar? no Was the victim (and consequently the murderer) on the street? yes Is it relevant to the solution if we differentiate the type of killing (like, for example, stabbing as opposed to sniper shooting from a rooftop one block away?) Would the outcome be the same? (i.e., if there had been fewer people around, she wouldn't have been killed) It's pretty relevant that it was a stabbing. If it were a gun (especially a sniper) it probably wouldn't have made a difference Good Q's! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3811 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the street a main street? Side street? Were the other people in a place of business? A restaurant? Did they think it was a reenactment? Did they react to the murder? See the murder? Realize it was a murder? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 559 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the street a main street? Side street? irrel Were the other people in a place of business? no A restaurant? no Did they think it was a reenactment? no Did they react to the murder? well, not like they should! See the murder? Realize it was a murder? yes to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3814 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did they react pleasantly to the murder? Did they cheer? Did they want the woman to die? Is mistaken identity relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 561 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did they react pleasantly to the murder? Did they cheer? Did they want the woman to die? Is mistaken identity relevant? no to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4039 Registered: 4-2010 |
So they reacted to the murder, right? But not horrified, correct? Did they laugh? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 563 Registered: 5-2010 |
So they reacted to the murder, right? well, not exactly... But not horrified, correct? they might have been horrified Did they laugh? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4128 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they afraid? Too afraid to act? Did they realize what was going on? Did anyone try to stop the murder? Stop the villain from fleeing? Call the police? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 565 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were they afraid? quite possibly, but irrelevant Too afraid to act? no Did they realize what was going on? yes, or for the most part Did anyone try to stop the murder? Stop the villain from fleeing? Call the police? no to all (and just for interest sake, this mystified those who later heard about the incident, but the explanation is indeed lateral) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4330 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they able to stop the murder? Physically able? Were they unable to even move? Was it possible for them to stop the murder? Stop the villain from fleeing? Call the police? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 566 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were they able to stop the murder? yes Physically able? no, or irrel Were they unable to even move? they could move Was it possible for them to stop the murder? yes Stop the villain from fleeing? well... Call the police? yes, and this is the important thing. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4486 Registered: 4-2010 |
So they did not call the police? Or did they? And the police were unable to arrive? Did they not call the police because they thought the murder was justified? Self-defense? Did they think the woman had committed a crime? That the killer had killed her in a struggle? Call the police - on a cell phone? A pay phone? A landline phone? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 568 Registered: 5-2010 |
So they did not call the police? no they did not, but they could have Or did they? And the police were unable to arrive? they could have arrived in time to stop the murder Did they not call the police because they thought the murder was justified? no, or probably not Self-defense? no Did they think the woman had committed a crime? no or irrelevant That the killer had killed her in a struggle? well, there was a struggle... Call the police - on a cell phone? A pay phone? A landline phone? Any of these. Although I don't think they would have had cell phones at this time. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4563 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did they see the struggle? Did they think the struggle was staged? Part of a show? Did they realize it was an actual struggle? Were they afraid of what would happen if they got involved? That the killer would kill them? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1835 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did everyone think someone else was going to take care of it? But if there were fewer people, then it would have been clear that no one was helping? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 570 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did they see the struggle? yes Did they think the struggle was staged? no Part of a show? no Did they realize it was an actual struggle? yes Were they afraid of what would happen if they got involved? no That the killer would kill them? no Did everyone think someone else was going to take care of it? YES!!! But if there were fewer people, then it would have been clear that no one was helping? exactly! *******SPOILER******* The killing was one of the most infamous incidents in New York City history. It was the 1964 stabbing death of a young Queens woman named Kitty Genovese. She was chased by her assailant and attacked three times on the street, over the course of half an hour, as thirty-eight of her neighbors watched from their windows. However, none of the 38 people called the police. For years, this case was assumed to be indicative of the cold, dehumanizing effect of urban city life. Later on however, some studies were done that suggested another explanation. I will quote from The Tipping Point, an excellent book about social and cultural behavior: "When people are in a group...responsibility for acting is diffused. They assume that someone else will make the call, or they assume that because no one else is acting, the apparent problem...isn't really a problem. In the case of Kitty Genovese, then...the lesson is not that no one called despite the fact that thirty-eight people heard her scream; it's that no one called because thirty-eight people heard her scream. Ironically, had she been attacked on a lonely street with just one witness, she might have lived." Thanks to all who participated. Thanks, Balin, for all the good questions and groundwork, and Noel for the stroke of genius that led to the solve. |
