| Author | Message | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 343 Registered: 9-2009 |
He was humble. Therefore, he was welcome | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3708 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did this occur in the 15th century? If not, is the time period relevant, and if so, LTPF list of centuries? He1=He2? H/A/M? Is this a true story? Fiction? FYOI? Location relevant (LTPF list of countries)? Other people relevant? If so, was it they who welcomed him? Was he a religious figure? Anything to do with some biblical verse along the lines of "All who come here in humility are welcome?" Would someone arrogant, rich or otherwise obviously not humble be welcome? Unwelcome? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 345 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did this occur in the 15th century? No If not, is the time period relevant, To a certain extent and if so, LTPF list of centuries? 20th He1=He2? H/A/M? Yes to all Is this a true story? Yes Fiction? FYOI? Location relevant (LTPF list of countries)? Romania, lateralish relevant Other people relevant? Yesish If so, was it they who welcomed him? I'd say so Was he a religious figure? Yes Anything to do with some biblical verse along the lines of "All who come here in humility are welcome?" Not this, however Would someone arrogant, No rich Irr or otherwise obviously not humble Possibly be welcome? Unwelcome? See above | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3709 Registered: 5-2003 |
Anything to do with vampires? Was he welcomed into a place? Inside? Outside? A gathering? By one person? More than one? Are they H/A/M? Was he a well-known religious figure? A saint? A generic religious figure, like a priest or monk? Christian? Jewish? Muslim? Was he welcomed by members of another faith, or his own? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 346 Registered: 9-2009 |
Anything to do with vampires? Nothing to do with that Was he welcomed into a place? Inside? Outside? I don't remember exacly, but I think was outside A gathering? This... By one person? More than one? ... and this Are they H/A/M? Mixed as for the A and M, all humans Was he a well-known religious figure? We all at least heard of him A saint? Yope A generic religious figure, like a priest or monk? Not generic, but a priest, among others Christian? This one Jewish? Muslim? Was he welcomed by members of another faith, Yope or his own? Again a yope. Very good questions | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4979 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he welcomed by members of another country? Was he a missionary? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 347 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he welcomed by members of another country? Yes Was he a missionary? But no | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3711 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was he welcomed by members of a different denomination? Were they gathered specifically to meet him? Was he trying to convert people? Discuss something relevant, like at a conference? Does humility in this context refer to the non-presence of weapons? Yope to saint -- someone Blessed or otherwise beatified? Venerable? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 348 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he welcomed by members of a different denomination? Exactly Were they gathered specifically to meet him? Also true Was he trying to convert people? Not at all Discuss something relevant, like at a conference? I am not sure what you mean. It was not a conference Does humility in this context refer to the non-presence of weapons? No, no weapons involved Yope to saint -- someone Blessed or otherwise beatified? This one, AFAIK Venerable? We are progressing quickly here | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4988 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he Catholic? Were the ones who welcomed him Catholic? Was he the Pope? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 350 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he Catholic? Yes Were the ones who welcomed him Catholic? Not in the relevant part Was he the Pope? And indeed he was the Pope. Another round of good questions. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3712 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was his intention to bring people together? Drive them apart? Were all the people at the gathering of the same denomination? May I ask for the LTPF list of Christian denominations involved? Had the gathering asked him to come? Asked for someone, but not him specifically? Was he Romanian? Were they? Relevant? Were they pleased to see him? Was he pleased to see them? Was he acting as a judge? Was he arguing on behalf of something/someone? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 351 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was his intention to bring people together? Drive them apart? Were all the people at the gathering of the same denomination? No to all, so far May I ask for the LTPF list of Christian denominations involved? Certainly. Catholic and Orthodox. The title is also relevant, to a certain degree Had the gathering asked him to come? Yope Asked for someone, but not him specifically? No Was he Romanian? No Pope has ever been Romanian Were they? Yes, in the vast majority Relevant? Only as far as their religion is involved Were they pleased to see him? Yesish, but the 'humble' attitude was helping Was he pleased to see them? I believe so Was he acting as a judge? Was he arguing on behalf of something/someone? Nothing of this sort | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4998 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he coming to bless a cathedral? Hagia Sophia relevant? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 352 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was he coming to bless a cathedral? No, or irr. Hagia Sophia relevant? Relevant for the Orthodoxy, but not at all for this puzzle | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5002 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the head of the Orthodox church also there? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 354 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the head of the Orthodox church also there? Of the Romanian Orthodox church, I believe so. The Orthodox church as a whole does not have a person presiding. But whether the Patriarch was there or not is entirely irrelevant. The Pope and the people were the relevant entities. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5006 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was there a controversy going on at the time? (not unlike today) Did the Pope try to resolve that controversy? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 356 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was there a controversy going on at the time? (not unlike today) Did the Pope try to resolve that controversy? It was a controversy, and still is. But proceed carefully -- for the svv of 'controversy' and svv of 'resolve' We are almost there | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3718 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was the Pope humbly and peacefully meeting with Orthodox Christians in a way that had not happened since the 15th century? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5007 Registered: 4-2010 |
15th century was the start of the Protestant Reformation...was the Pope trying to unite the Catholic/Orthodox churches? Trying to reach out to the Orthodox people despite their different beliefs? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 358 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the Pope humbly and peacefully meeting with Orthodox Christians in a way that had not happened since the 15th century? He was indeed. But I made a mess of the title, writing 15th instead of 11th. Anyway, now is not relevant any more. Remaining to solve: how he manifested this humility? 15th century was the start of the Protestant Reformation...was the Pope trying to unite the Catholic/Orthodox churches? Catholic and Orthodox split in 1054. thinking of the fall of Constantinople -- the head of Orthodoxy, I misplaced the centuries. But see above, no longer relevant Trying to reach out to the Orthodox people despite their different beliefs? But THIS is very OTRT Short recap: The pope visits Romania in the 20th century. He is a foreigner and a Catholic, while the people waiting for him are in the vast majority Orthodox. The first such encounter from 1054 onwards. He manages to perform a gesture of high humility, easily understood by the people, who in various (but not relevant) ways welcome him | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5016 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he take his hat off? Show reverence to the Orthodox patriarch? Bow? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3721 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does he make an Orthodox religious gesture? Bow or otherwise show respect to the people he visits? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he take his hat off? Show reverence to the Orthodox patriarch? Bow? Does he make an Orthodox religious gesture? Bow or otherwise show respect to the people he visits? The latter of these. Is it something he says, not something he does | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3722 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does he refer to their faith? Their history? In a respectful fashion? Deprecating his own in some way? Equating the two? I do vaguely remember this incident, but I won't google it. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does he refer to their faith? Yesish to yope Their history? Same ] In a respectful fashion? Very much so Deprecating his own in some way? Equating the two? No the rest, if I understand it correctly -- you mean his own country's history or that of the Catholic church? The pope was humble in this instance. We only need to find out how, and a deserved $poiler will come I do vaguely remember this incident, but I won't google it. Please do if it helps. As far as I'm concerned, googling is beneficial. My favourite teacher in college allowed every possible reference book in every exam. It was to no avail, however | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3724 Registered: 5-2003 |
OK then... (Googlegooglegoogle)... Well, if it's something he said, it can't be that he and the Orthodox patriarch attended each other's services...? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 364 Registered: 9-2009 |
OK then... (Googlegooglegoogle)... Well, if it's something he said, it can't be that he and the Orthodox patriarch attended each other's services...? They did celebrated the mass together but this puzzle is about a different aspect, not involving at all the Patriarch or any other Orthodox religious authorities | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5025 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he compliment the people? Their faith? The Orthodox faith? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 369 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he compliment the people? Their faith? The Orthodox faith? No or noish to all. Relevant here is only his humility -- expressed by words. Orthodox belief is only laterally relevant. How could a Pope express his humility? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5029 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he somehow lower himself (figuratively) from his position? Consider himself equal with the masses? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 370 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he somehow lower himself (figuratively) from his position? Yope Consider himself equal with the masses? Certainly not this | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5032 Registered: 4-2010 |
The thing he said...did it mention Catholicism? Orthodoxy? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 372 Registered: 9-2009 |
The thing he said...did it mention Catholicism? Orthodoxy? Neither. He made however a reference to his 'job' | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5038 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he mention that he was the head of the Catholic church? But not of the Orthodox church? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 373 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he mention that he was the head of the Catholic church? But not of the Orthodox church? Neither, with a tiny ish | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5039 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he mention that they were both Christian denominations? So they shared a common belief? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3734 Registered: 5-2003 |
Did he compare the two faiths? Contrast them? Equate them? Act as though they were the same? Did he state an objective fact? Appear to have changed his mind about an issue? Appear to represent a changed stance by the Catholic Church? Anything to do with what he was wearing or carrying? Something unusual? Something new? Left behind? Deliberately removed or perhaps traded with the Orthodox cleric? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 374 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he mention that they were both Christian denominations? So they shared a common belief? Did he compare the two faiths? Contrast them? Equate them? Act as though they were the same? Did he state an objective fact? This, no to others Appear to have changed his mind about an issue? Appear to represent a changed stance by the Catholic Church? Anything to do with what he was wearing or carrying? Something unusual? Something new? Left behind? Deliberately removed or perhaps traded with the Orthodox cleric? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5183 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he say "I am not head over you" because he's only head of the Catholic church? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he say "I am not head over you" because he's only head of the Catholic church? This was his general intention, but he said it in a subtle manner. I will let the puzzle unspoyled for now, in case anyone is interested in how he put it | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5185 Registered: 4-2010 |
Something like "[Patriarch] is head over you"? "In this church, [Patriarch] is head over you and me"? "My hat is totally awesome"? (Although I kinda doubt that last one... =) ) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 382 Registered: 9-2009 |
Something like "[Patriarch] is head over you"? "In this church, [Patriarch] is head over you and me"? "My hat is totally awesome"? (Although I kinda doubt that last one... =) ) Hehe, no to all (and especially the last) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5186 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he mention himself? The patriarch? The Orthodox people? The Catholic people? "I am head over [Catholics], not you"? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 383 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he mention himself? YES. No to rest The patriarch? The Orthodox people? The Catholic people? "I am head over [Catholics], not you"? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5188 Registered: 4-2010 |
"I am not your leader"? "I am not the leader of the Orthodox church"? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2009 |
"I am not your leader"? "I am not the leader of the Orthodox church"? Both were implied, but he made an affirmation rather than a negation. Along the lines of 'I am X' rather than 'I am not Y' | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5203 Registered: 4-2010 |
"I am head of the Catholic church"? "I am head over some (but not all)"? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 388 Registered: 9-2009 |
I am head of the Catholic church"? "I am head over some (but not all)"? No. He used a title of his, other than that of a Pope. Even if this might seem a technicality, it is of paramount importance as long as the catholic - orthodox relations are involved, and might be fun to discover it in a puzzle. Googling of course is permitted, as always | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5213 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he refer to himself as a cardinal? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 392 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he refer to himself as a cardinal? Even less. We're approaching a $poiler here | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5233 Registered: 4-2010 |
As a Catholic? A servant of God? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 397 Registered: 9-2009 |
As a Catholic? A servant of God? No to both. You should think more literally | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5246 Registered: 4-2010 |
As a Christian? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 400 Registered: 9-2009 |
No. He was referring to himself through a different title | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 403 Registered: 9-2009 |
Let's put this out of its misery... ******* SPOILER ******* When the Pope visited Romania in 1999 ... the first such act since 1054, he used a very subtle way of presenting himself to the Orthodox crowd (I was a piece of that too). He did not say the he was the Pope, but rather that he was the Bishop of Rome. Incidentally, to us the Pope means next to nothing, whereas the Bishop of Rome is an extremely powerful title. He died afterwards. We all wept -- for the Bishop of Rome. Thanks to all who participated | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5253 Registered: 4-2010 |
Wow - I did not know that story, nor the power of the title Bishop of Rome. Nice puzzle! | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 411 Registered: 9-2009 |
Wow - I did not know that story, nor the power of the title Bishop of Rome. The power stems from the fact that this title predates the split from 1054 and arguably goes back to the first Christians and to St. Peter himself. As a Bishop of Rome, he is -- traditionally - higher than the Romanian (or Russian, or Bulgarian, or whatever) Patriarch, only equal to the traditional other 3 Patriarchs - those in Antiohia, Alexandria and Jerusalem. As a Pope, he is head of the Catholic Church and to an Orthodox this means next to nothing. By saying 'Thank you for welcoming amongst you the Bishop of Rome' (that was the phrase), he used a lesser title, looking from one perspective, and in this respect he was humble. But his intention was -- and briliantly succeeded -- to say: 'I am the boss' Nice puzzle! Thanks. Another one is awaiting |
