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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They hanged him for trying to pay his taxes. Explain.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

him = his?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

him = his? Yes. He's also H/A/M, and so are they.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to pay his taxes early? on time? late? relevant?

Is his payment method (checks, cash, credit, specific currency, etc.) relevant?

Is his nationality relevant? His allegiance? His ethnicity?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to pay his taxes early? on time? This. late? relevant? No.

Is his payment method (checks, cash, credit, specific currency, etc.) relevant? Yes.

Is his nationality relevant? No. His allegiance? Yesish. His ethnicity? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a spy? Does he live in the country he tried to pay taxes to?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a spy? No. Does he live in the country he tried to pay taxes to? Yes.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he "wanted" by the law before he paid the taxes?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His payment method:
checks? cash? credit? debit? foreign currency? outdated currency? coins? small bills? counterfeit money?
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he trying to pay Yankee taxes with Confederate money? Or vice versa?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he "wanted" by the law before he paid the taxes? No.

His payment method:
checks? cash? credit? debit? foreign currency? outdated currency? coins? small bills? counterfeit money? Good list of payment methods, but sadly, none of these!

Was he trying to pay Yankee taxes with Confederate money? Or vice versa? No. If vice versa, I'm sure the Confeds would've jumped at it, since Confederate money was totally worthless.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is a true story?
Was it gold certificates?
Marked bills?
Dye-pack splattered bills?
Stolen money with recorded serial numbers?
Quatloos won in an illegal game of Fizbin?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 6:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is a true story? No.
Was it gold certificates?
Marked bills?
Dye-pack splattered bills?
Stolen money with recorded serial numbers?
Quatloos won in an illegal game of Fizbin? None of these, though I like that last one!
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 6:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the setting modern?
Is the setting historical?
Was he a Torry trying to pay his taxes to England?
Was he an Iotian trying to give the Federation their piece of the action? (I'm on a roll)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 6:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the setting modern? No.
Is the setting historical? Yes, but more an idealized one than anything specific.
Was he a Torry trying to pay his taxes to England? No. Good lateral thought, though.
Was he an Iotian trying to give the Federation their piece of the action? (I'm on a roll) I recall a short story where an Iotian literally does just that - hunts down a retired Kirk on Earth to pay him what's due.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 6:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a "merry man" trying to pay taxes to King John?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 7:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a "merry man" trying to pay taxes to King John? No. Right time period, though, and I should mention that there is an anachronism involved.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he trying to pay taxes with products? If so: agricultural products? Animals? Dairy?

Is it relevant in what country the story takes place? Was there a misunderstanding involved? Those who hanged him -- part of the same government he was trying to pay taxes to? A different government? If so, hostile to the first? Was he hanged by the government at all, or by some private individuals?

The reason for hanging: was he accused of a crime? If so, a violent one? Lese majeste? Embezzlement? Was the hanging related to paying the taxes or was for something entirely different and maybe he was just apprehended at that time? Or maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

(All references to 'governement' above are to an established form of ruling a country or an autonomous territory, no matter its form)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to be absolutely sure..."hanged" = executed?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court? Not that big an anachronism, but about the right time period.

Was he trying to pay taxes with products? Yes. If so: agricultural products? Animals? This. Dairy? No.

Is it relevant in what country the story takes place? No. Was there a misunderstanding involved? Very much so. Those who hanged him -- part of the same government he was trying to pay taxes to? Yes. A different government? If so, hostile to the first? Was he hanged by the government at all, This, or by some private individuals? In some ways, they overlap.

The reason for hanging: was he accused of a crime? If so, a violent one? Lese majeste? This. Embezzlement? Was the hanging related to paying the taxes Yes. or was for something entirely different and maybe he was just apprehended at that time? Or maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Just to be absolutely sure..."hanged" = executed? Yes.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he supposed to pay with animals in the first place? Was the species of animals he used that made him liable? Did he use 'sacred' animals? Animals under the protection of the local ruler? Appearing on his coat of arms? Relevant what exact species he used? If so, mammals? birds? fish? Did he mean to pay the amount due, or some lesser amount?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he supposed to pay with animals in the first place? No. Was the species of animals he used that made him liable? Yes, though related species would have been problematic too. Did he use 'sacred' animals? No. Animals under the protection of the local ruler? No. Appearing on his coat of arms? No. Relevant what exact species he used? Yes. If so, mammals? birds? This. fish? Did he mean to pay the amount due This., or some lesser amount?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

24 black birds? Baked in a pie? Live birds? Dead? Edible birds? Pests? Birds otherwise considered unsavory? Superstition relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: Did he report "bank robbery" as a source of income on his tax form so he could pay taxes on the money? And so they hanged him for robbing the bank? And they wouldn't have caught him for it if he hadn't been so dumb as to report it.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

24 black birds? No. Baked in a pie? No. Live birds? Irr. Dead? Edible birds? Yes. Pests? No. Birds otherwise considered unsavory? No. Superstition relevant? No.

Wild guess: Did he report "bank robbery" as a source of income on his tax form so he could pay taxes on the money? No, this is before banks. And so they hanged him for robbing the bank? And they wouldn't have caught him for it if he hadn't been so dumb as to report it.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the birds alive? Dead? Rare? Common? Specific species relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the birds alive? At the time, yes, though he might well have killed them before turning them over. Dead? Rare? Common? Yes. Specific species relevant? Mildly.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the type of bird forbidden in the area? Were they songbirds? Fowl? Game?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the type of bird forbidden in the area? No> Were they songbirds? Fowl? This. Game?
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 5:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he hanged solely because of using birds to pay the taxes, or something else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 6:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he hanged solely because of using birds to pay the taxes, or something else? Something else.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he steal the birds to pay the taxes?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he steal the birds to pay the taxes? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The specific bird relevant? Just that they're fowl? Chickens? Turkeys? Ducks?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The specific bird relevant? Mildly. Just that they're fowl? Chickens? Turkeys? Ducks? None of these.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man's occupation relevant? Is he a farmer? Hunter?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter where the birds came from? If so, did he raise them? Did he capture them from the wild? Relevant that animals on the king's property were considered to belong to the king?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man's occupation relevant? Yes. Is he a farmer? OTRT. Hunter? No.

Does it matter where the birds came from? Yes. If so, did he raise them? Yes. Did he capture them from the wild? Relevant that animals on the king's property were considered to belong to the king? No.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a religious connection? Are the birds not Kosher?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a religious connection? No. Are the birds not Kosher?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he raise them as pets? For food? To sell?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he raise them as pets? For food? This. To sell? And this.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he hanged for cheating on his taxes? Was he cheating on his taxes?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he hanged for cheating on his taxes? No. Was he cheating on his taxes? No.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his hanging related to HIS raising of the birds?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his hanging related to HIS raising of the birds? No.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was attempting to pay taxes using birds as payment: illegal or offensive?

Would he have been hanged for conducting other commerce with same said birds?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was attempting to pay taxes using birds as payment: illegal or offensive? This.

Would he have been hanged for conducting other commerce with same said birds? Depends on who with.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would he have been hanged for conducting other commerce, with same said birds, between himself and: clergy, royalty, law enforcement, city officials, the audubon society, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker?

Would attempting to pay taxes using birds as payment be offensive to the populous as a whole, some segment, or a specific person or persons?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 1:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would he have been hanged for conducting other commerce, Oh wait, conducting other commerce? as in selling rather than paying in lieu of taxes? No. with same said birds, between himself and: clergy, royalty, But if the latter, then the king is the guy who gets the taxes. law enforcement, city officials, the audubon society, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker?

Would attempting to pay taxes using birds as payment be offensive to the populous as a whole, some segment, or a specific person or persons? The king specifically or (since he never appears), his underlings (on his behalf), but plenty of others would be offended.
Gameczar (Gameczar)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 2:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No conduction "other" commerce would be I buy a crate of apples from you for two chickens. So would that be penalized?

So the kings official (say a tax collector) would be offended when collecting taxes in a non-monetary form such as birds? Would the tax collector then order the execution of the offending tax payer?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No conduction "other" commerce would be I buy a crate of apples from you for two chickens. So would that be penalized? No.

So the kings official (say a tax collector) would be offended when collecting taxes in a non-monetary form Not necessarily. such as birds? But yes. Would the tax collector then order the execution of the offending tax payer? Assuming lese' Majeste' is a capital offense, yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 3:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gifting of common birds considered below the nature of the king? Considered a slap in the face to the king?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gifting of common birds considered below the nature of the king? How common they are is irrelevant. Considered a slap in the face to the king? Something like that.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the specific type of bird have significance to the king? to the country?

For example, maybe a royal family was traditionally represented by doves and he offended them by paying with doves?
Or, I keep thinking about the Tower of London, where ravens are very important and I think had something to do with good luck. Maybe he is a caretaker of ravens at the tower?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the specific type of bird have significance to the king? to the country? No to both.

For example, maybe a royal family was traditionally represented by doves and he offended them by paying with doves?
Or, I keep thinking about the Tower of London, where ravens are very important and I think had something to do with good luck. Maybe he is a caretaker of ravens at the tower? No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, October 15, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have to ask that: is aviation involved?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have to ask that: is aviation involved? No. Wrong time period.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the payment considered as making mockery of the king?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was thinking about the anachronism you mentioned when I asked about aviation - given also your passion for aircraft. Wrong guess.

Birds: offered alive? dead? Was it offensive to offer them as tax payment, or to trade them generally?

Is this a potential -- even if fictional -- historic setting, or more like in a story? That means, are birds offered to the Great Bird King, or something similar? Is the king/ruler the roc, by any chance? Arabian nights used as an inspiration?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the payment considered as making mockery of the king? Yes.

Birds: offered alive? Irr. dead? Was it offensive to offer them as tax payment, This. or to trade them generally?

Is this a potential -- even if fictional -- historic setting, This. or more like in a story? That means, are birds offered to the Great Bird King, or something similar? Is the king/ruler the roc, by any chance? Arabian nights used as an inspiration? None of these.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 2:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this occur - even if fictional - in [LTPF list of centuries]? On [LTPF list of continents]?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this occur - even if fictional - in [LTPF list of centuries]? On [LTPF list of continents]? Assume Britain in the Middle Ages.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man's social class relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man's social class relevant? Mildly. He's a peasant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fact that he paid with common birds what got him hanged? Or was there some quality about the birds that got him executed? Were they sick? Dismembered? Missing a wing? Or both? Something like this? Did the man intend to mock the king?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fact that he paid with common birds what got him hanged? No. Or was there some quality about the birds that got him executed? No. Were they sick? Dismembered? Missing a wing? Or both? None of these. Something like this? No. Did the man intend to mock the king? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to know the specific type of birds? Is the man's name relevant? The king's name?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to know the specific type of birds? Geese. Is the man's name relevant? No. The king's name? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the geese poo on the king after the man gave them to him?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the geese poo on the king No. after the man gave them to him? He never got them.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man give the geese to someone else? To give to the king? Did the geese fly away before they got to the king? Did they die?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man give the geese to someone else? He tried to. To give to the king? Yes. Did the geese fly away before they got to the king? No. Did they die? No. Only one goose, by the way.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the goose lay an egg?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the goose lay an egg? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other person - H? A? M? Was the other person a tax collector? Did the person refuse to take the goose?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 16, 2010 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other person - H? A? M? Yes to all. Was the other person a tax collector? Yes. Did the person refuse to take the goose? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the tax collector have good reason for not taking the goose? Did he not feel that taxes should be paid in geese?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the tax collector have good reason for not taking the goose? No. Did he not feel that taxes should be paid in geese? Not under the circumstances.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this a normal tax? An emergency tax? To fund a war? Or something? And it was felt improper to pay with a goose?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this a normal tax? Yes. An emergency tax? To fund a war? Irr. Or something? Irr. And it was felt improper to pay with a goose? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a desperate need for money? Did the king already have plenty of geese?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a desperate need for money? Irr. Did the king already have plenty of geese? Irr.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had there been a decree issued on what could/could not be used to pay tax with? Was the goose enough to actually pay the tax with?

Could you please recap?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Six geese a-laying?

"The Goose Girl"? (fairy tale)

Geese that lay golden eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had there been a decree issued on what could/could not be used to pay tax with? No. Was the goose enough to actually pay the tax with? Yes.

Could you please recap?

In Ye Olde Medieval Tymes, tax-collectors come to the goose-herder to collect the year's taxes for the king. Not having any money, the goose-herder offers one of his geese instead. Although his best goose is worth at least as much as he owes in taxes, and although there is no rule against "paying in kind," he is immediately arrested for mocking the king.

Six geese a-laying?

"The Goose Girl"? (fairy tale)

Geese that lay golden eggs? Folktales are irrelevant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the king been mocked with geese before?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the king been mocked with geese before? Assume no.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 17, 2010 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there an incident involving the king and geese? A scandal?

(That came out creepier than I meant - sorry.)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there an incident involving the king and geese? No, but there was nearly one involving the queen. A scandal? Yope.

(That came out creepier than I meant - sorry.) Well, there is a bit of an accidentally creepy element in this.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the incident with the queen relevant? Was the queen attacked by geese? Nearly attacked by geese?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the incident with the queen relevant? Mildly. It's separate from the one with the king. Was the queen attacked by geese? Nearly attacked by geese? Neither.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the payment in geese have been considered a mockery of the queen as well as the king?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the payment in geese have been considered a mockery of the queen as well as the king? Depends on circumstances. (Hint: The puzzle title is relevant.)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man say something relevant to the tax collector?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man say something relevant to the tax collector? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say something about the goose? The tax? Money? The king? The queen? Paying?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say something about the goose? Not specifically, when talking about the king. Yes, when talking about the queen. The tax? Yes. Money? Yes. The king? This. The queen? Later, this. Paying? He didn't use this word.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was what he said misinterpreted? Or did he make a slip of the tongue? Or did what he say have a second meaning that was mocking in nature?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was what he said misinterpreted? Yes. Or did he make a slip of the tongue? No. Or did what he say have a second meaning that was mocking in nature? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say the goose was worth X amount of money? Worth its weight in gold?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say the goose was worth X amount of money? Worth its weight in gold? Neither.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 3:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say something about "giving the king the goose"? "the bird"? And it was misinterpreted as a gesture of profanity?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say something about "giving the king the goose"? "the bird"? Yes! And it was misinterpreted as a gesture of profanity? Got it.

**********

Redacted Spoiler

**********

The following is a filksong by J. Michael Shew, found here: http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/lyrics/hanging.html

Come gather all ye fellows, and lift a cup to memory
Of a common working fellow, much the same as you and me
He was a simple goose-herd, a poor but happy working man
When the King's guard came to see him, and gather taxes in this land

Chorus
They've got him in the dungeon
They say in duty he's been lax
Oh, they're going to hang the goose-herd
Because he tried to pay his tax

When the guards came calling, the goose-herd said he'd try to pay
But he hadn't any money, to send off in the usual way
So he went out to his goose-pens, to choose the finest in his herd
And he told the waiting guardsmen he'd like to give the King the bird

Chorus

The captain's face was livid; "You cannot speak so of the King!"
So they took him to the Baron, to have a peer explain the thing
But the goose-herd was determined; he was a man true to his word
"If I cannot pay in money, then I should give the King the bird."

Chorus

Now the Baron took to shouting; "A court of nobles should convene
To keep this peasant quiet and keep such rabble from our King!"
So they gathered all the peerage, but still the man would not be swerved
"If I cannot pay my taxes, then I should give the King the bird!"

Chorus

They were ready for a lynching, when in the King's own Herald came
He cried out he had the answer; “Keep silence in the King's own name!”
He approached the goose-herd kindly; "You see, you poorly chose your words.
It's not the proper etiquette to try to give the King the bird."
Then the goose-herd seemed to brighten, as if a light came to his head
"If I cannot give the king the bird, I'll give the queen a goose instead!"

Chorus
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 3:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess...that was just a wild guess...

Nice puzzle, and I like the folksong!

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