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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There was a word, common until the late 1960's or so, that was racist, although it was not a racial slur. Fortunately, the word is no longer common, but we lack a harmless substitute for what it was supposed to mean. When I give the solution to this puzzle, I will also suggest a new word. What was the original word?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a noun? adjective? verb? proper name?

Was it offensive towards a specific race? Black? Asian? Hispanic? White?
Towards people from a specific country?

Was the word used in the US? Other English-speaking countries?

Is the word still used in a different context?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2011 - 6:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it a noun? there's a noun form adjective? usually verb? no proper name? no

Was it offensive towards a specific race? Black? Asian? Hispanic? White?It's offensive about all races but white, but probably especially offensive about blacks
Towards people from a specific country? no

Was the word used in the US?\b} yes} Other English-speaking countries? I'm not sure, but I bet it was

Is the word still used in a different context? rarely if at all
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"colored"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"colored"? no, but you're somewhat ORT. 'Colored' was not racist; it's part of the NAACP's name!}
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*facepalm* Yes, I'd forgotten that. I thought the "n" word applied only to black people. "People of color"? I don't know. I should ask my father, he's racist, among other things. x.x *sigh*
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Offensive about all races but white, but particularly towards blacks – So would it be accurate to say that the word is racist against “non-whites”?
Whites as in of White European descent?
Or only American whites?

Was this word mostly used by whites?
By many racial groups?

Sometimes a word’s origins get lost over decades of use –
Did the majority of those using the word know what it referred to or that it was racist?

The word is usually used as an adjective but does have a noun form. Does the adjective describe:
Appearance?
A character trait?
A behavior?
An attitude?

Does it reference –
Immigration or immigrants?
Slavery?
Poverty?
Lack of education?
Lack of English proficiency?
Lack of intelligence?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Offensive about all races but white, but particularly towards blacks – So would it be accurate to say that the word is racist against “non-whites”? yes. . .but especially blacks, as I said
Whites as in of White European descent? yes
Or only American whites? no

Was this word mostly used by whites? I'm not sure
By many racial groups? I'm not sure

Sometimes a word’s origins get lost over decades of use –
Did the majority of those using the word know what it referred to or that it was racist?They may not have realized it was racist, but it's racism is ongoing, & not confined to its origins

The word is usually used as an adjective but does have a noun form. Does the adjective describe:
Appearance? yes
A character trait? no
A behavior? no
An attitude? no

Does it reference –
Immigration or immigrants?
Slavery?
Poverty?
Lack of education?
Lack of English proficiency?
Lack of intelligence? no to all in this group
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Appearance -
skin?
hair?
facial features?
body shape?
extremities?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Appearance -
skin? yes
hair?no
facial features? no
body shape? no
extremities? no
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the word refer to the percetage of mixed or black blood someone has?
Like describing skin tone as:
High yellow?
Quatroon?
Octoon?
Dusky?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 8:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the word refer to the percetage of mixed or black blood someone has?
Like describing skin tone as:
High yellow?
Quatroon?
Octoon?
Dusky? no to all
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the word refer to not-white skin color as "dirty"?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the word refer to skin color?
Or some other attribute of skin?
Perhaps aging?
Moisture level?
Oil level?
Blemishes?
Skin overall or skin on a certain area? Like face? Or elbows? Knees?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the word refer to not-white skin color as "dirty"? no
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the word refer to skin color? yes
Or some other attribute of skin? no
Perhaps aging? no
Moisture level? no
Oil level? no
Blemishes? no
Skin overall or skin on a certain area? no Like face? Or elbows? Knees? overall
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "blackface" relevant? Regardless of relevance for this puzzle, it seems there should be a non-racially-tinged way to describe the quite harmless concept of applying makeup to change one's apparent skin tone.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Is "blackface" relevant? no Regardless of relevance for this puzzle, it seems there should be a non-racially-tinged way to describe the quite harmless concept of applying makeup to change one's apparent skin tone. I agree--that's a different new & better word we need. How about 'race makeup' if the aim is to disguise your race (often a perfectly legitimate aim, as in acting)?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I find the word non-white offensive as it carries an sense of "there's white people, then there's the rest of the world"...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, in talking about American cultural and social norms of the 1960s and earlier, that sense of "whites and everyone else" pretty much sums it up. Culture and society was almost entirely about whites, which had a huge contributing role in the Civil Rights Movement in America, which was the mid 50s through late 60s.

To the best of my knowledge, the term itself is not generally considered offensive. While the connotations may not fit with the more PC, current global worldview - it is accurate for the time period being discussed here.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I find the word non-white offensive as it carries an sense of "there's white people, then there's the rest of the world"...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Well, in talking about American cultural and social norms of the 1960s and earlier, that sense of "whites and everyone else" pretty much sums it up. Culture and society was almost entirely about whites, which had a huge contributing role in the Civil Rights Movement in America, which was the mid 50s through late 60s.

To the best of my knowledge, the term itself is not generally considered offensive. While the connotations may not fit with the more PC, current global worldview - it is accurate for the time period being discussed here.
I don't find 'non-white' offensive at all. It's appropriate when contrasting whites with other races, which is often done when discussing racism. Do you also object to 'non-human' (often used on this forum, as in "Are any non-human animals relevant?") or to 'non-Jew' (as in "Here's what a non-Jew might find unfamiliar about a synagogue service"? I generally dislike attempts at PC language, so if one my my puzzles criticizes a term as racist, the term must be pretty bad!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vitiligo relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Vitiligo relevant? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the relevant adjective used to describe a person? a white person? a non white person? a particular group of people not solely defined by their colour?
was the adjective used to describe something other than a person? an action? an object?

are any of these relevant: sport? music? art? academia? religion? money? family? friendship? love? romance? books? business? trade? education? shopping? selling? animals? children? hobbies? movies? science? history? geography? towns? television? acting? travel? transport? colonialsim? slavery? crime? law? the military?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was the relevant adjective used to describe a person? a white person? a non white person? a particular group of people not solely defined by their colour? the adjective was used to describe an aspect of people in general
was the adjective used to describe something other than a person? possiblyan action? no an object? yes

are any of these relevant: sport? music? art? academia? religion? money? family? friendship? love? romance? books? business? trade? education? shopping? selling? animals? children? hobbies? movies? science? history? geography? towns? television? acting? travel? transport? colonialsim? slavery? crime? law? the military? no to all
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

darky? Which was originally in My Old Kentucky Home (the state song of Kentucky) with the lyric "The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky Home / 'tis summer, the darkies are gay" until they were performing it at the Kentucky Legislature for some visitors from Japan and some African American State Senator heard it and got mad and they changed iot to "the people". Although that song is somewhat of a bizarre choice for a state song because it essentially describes life on a slave plantation. It's not so apparent by the first verse (ie the one they sing at the Kentucky Derby and at UK and UofL basketball games) but when you look at the second and third verses, which were scrapped from the official lyrics when they changed "darkies" to "people" it's pretty obvious. Plus the original title was "Poor Uncle Tom, Goodnight!" Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Old_Kentucky_Home And I know that was a really long rant for a simple question, but I like really long rants. And it's only a few weeks until the Derby. When they will sing it and play it and everyone will sing along. </i>
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And knowing certain anti-gay news sources, they will probably make a belowo while picking up a Derby article and make it say "'tis summer, the people are homosexual". Which would be quite amusing, but also pretty offensive considering that's NOT what "gay" meant in the song. Also, I vaguely remember an article about a student at a Catholic school being disciplined for singing "Don we now our gay apparel" in the song "Deck the Halls". But now I'm really getting off topci.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hooray, it's almost Derby Day!! But yeah, longstanding events for really rich Southerners - somehow not that surprising that there is a potentially racist element or two. It's a little hard to honor any part of Southern history without a least a few things that cause folks to feel a little uncomfortable and clear their throats until the subject is changed. Gee, American history is fun!

Ahem - So comparing skin tone to an object...
I feel the need to say this feels rather uncomfortable but...
Ink?
Night?
Coal?
Tar?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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darky? noWhich was originally in My Old Kentucky Home (the state song of Kentucky) with the lyric "The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky Home / 'tis summer, the darkies are gay" until they were performing it at the Kentucky Legislature for some visitors from Japan and some African American State Senator heard it and got mad and they changed iot to "the people". Although that song is somewhat of a bizarre choice for a state song because it essentially describes life on a slave plantation. It's not so apparent by the first verse (ie the one they sing at the Kentucky Derby and at UK and UofL basketball games) but when you look at the second and third verses, which were scrapped from the official lyrics when they changed "darkies" to "people" it's pretty obvious. Plus the original title was "Poor Uncle Tom, Goodnight!" Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Old_Kentucky_Home And I know that was a really long rant for a simple question, but I like really long rants. And it's only a few weeks until the Derby. When they will sing it and play it and everyone will sing along. </i> I think no one should use 'darky' in writing or conversation now, but it's ridiculous to rewrite old song lyrics in order to make them PC. It's like retitling "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" as "The Bellringer of Notre Dame," which has actually been done in one production. Yeech.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 2:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
And knowing certain anti-gay news sources, they will probably make a belowo while picking up a Derby article and make it say "'tis summer, the people are homosexual". Which would be quite amusing, but also pretty offensive considering that's NOT what "gay" meant in the song. Also, I vaguely remember an article about a student at a Catholic school being disciplined for singing "Don we now our gay apparel" in the song "Deck the Halls". But now I'm really getting off topci.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 4:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hooray, it's almost Derby Day!! But yeah, longstanding events for really rich Southerners - somehow not that surprising that there is a potentially racist element or two. It's a little hard to honor any part of Southern history without a least a few things that cause folks to feel a little uncomfortable and clear their throats until the subject is changed. Gee, American history is fun!

Ahem - So comparing skin tone to an object...
I feel the need to say this feels rather uncomfortable but...
Ink?
Night?
Coal?
Tar? no to all
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object that might be described by this word relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Vesica (Vesica)
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Is the object that might be described by this word relevant?no--the point is that it's a word for skin color that can also be used for objects. That's BIG HINT!!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is just a color word?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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It is just a color word? Yes!!!! GOOOOOOOD QUESTION!!! Now the solution should be a SNAP!!!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Black?
Brown?
Tan?

A word that describes one of the above?

I have no idea...
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Black? Dark? Brown? Negro?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*facepalm* Oh, of course, and "negro" means "black" in Spanish, as it's the actual word for the color, not racist there I should think...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Black? no
Brown? no
Tan? no

A word that describes one of the above?no. The objectionable word does NOT describe most non-whites.

I have no idea...
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 1:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Black? Dark? Brown? Negro? no to all
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 655
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's offensive to all races BUT white, but does not describe most non-whites?

Is it "non-white"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
It's offensive to all races BUT white, but does not describe most non-whites?yes

Is it "non-white"? no--doesn't 'non-white'describe ALL non-whites?}
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 2533
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yellow?
flesh-colored? (as in the Crayola color that used to be called "flesh" but was renamed to something else a while back)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 2533
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 9:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
yellow? no
flesh-colored? (as in the Crayola color that used to be called "flesh" but was renamed to something else a while back)? yes!!

******* SPOILER *********

People actually used to use the term 'flesh-colored,' for the color or color range of most white people's skin. Even someone who dislikes pc language as much as I do thinks that was about as logical as calling brown things 'hair-colored' or blue things 'eye-colored.' Few people use 'flesh-colored' anymore, but we do need a nonracist term for the particular color (or color range) that happens to characterize most white people's skin. So I propose 'prink.' Of course, not all white people have the exactly same skin color, but not all shades of orange are the same either. Prink also comes in various shades (& in fact, some East Asians have prink skin). I hope you like this new word!! I hope you also like my new puzzle at the bottom of the page!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6618
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Apparently Crayola has changed 'flesh colored' to 'peach' as the name of a crayon color. That's no good; few if any white people have skin that's as orangish as peach skin or flesh. In my objective opinion, 'plink' is better!!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6620
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have just learned that 'prink' is already a word, alas. So I hereby replace 'prink' with 'primmet' (rhymes with 'swivet').
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 3565
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah...I'm too young to have gotten this, I guess. It was always "peach" in my crayon box.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There, there, Kaylee. But wait - surely you aren't too young to have missed Crayola "Flesh Tones" set of crayons. That was only a few years back and was a 12-20 color set with just about every possible skin tone represented.

Very nice one, Nimue! I thought we were never going to get it, which means it was a really good puzzle! All the pieces were there - just took a while to get far enough out of the box. :D
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 2:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Though the more I think about it, is there really a single color that would describe even most white skin? Even groups from different parts of Europe have very different "typical" skin tones...the Spanish verus the English versus the Irish.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 3567
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peach - Renamed from "Flesh" in 1962.

yep, definitely too young to remember that; I was born 23 years later!

I do remember "Indian Red"; it was apparently renamed "chestnut" in 1999, when I was 14. My last Crayola box is older than that. And apparently it was the third color to be renamed because of social concerns, but Wikipedia's article isn't giving me the other one, or else I am just no good at finding it. (Indian Red was named for a red ink that came from India, nothing to do with racist things, but oh well, PC-ness)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1208
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They renamed Indian Red to Chestnut? And it was named for a red ink that came from India? I never knew either of those. But if it hadn't been named after an ink from India, I would find that name about as racist as renaming "flash" to "Caucasian White". And on a side note, I find the terms "Caucasian" and "African-American" to be racist, because (as an example) the Director of the Hillel at UConn is a white man from South Africa. So is he "African-American" or "Caucasian"? Well he's from Africa, and he's American, so I guess he's African-American, but he's white, not black. Although now that I google "White African-American" I get interesting articles like http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=22929, from 2004 where a white South African Omaha high school student attempted to run for the "Martin Luther King Distinguished African-American" award as a way of protesting the term "African-American". Interestingly enough, according to some claims, the student was one of only a couple actual "African"-American students at the school. And that source apparently comes from another local source and has some funny comments that were posted on there. Check it out.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 667
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting. So what would you want used instead of Caucasian?

As for the "African-American" debate - I think the correct, though inelegant way, to reference the Director would be to say he's American, originally from South Africa, if referencing his cultural background. Or, if you were specifically referencing his race, that he's white (or your preferred term).

I get the point you are making, but African-American as you are using it is a an adjective describing race. His original nationality and/or ethnicity may be African, but his racial background is not. Which only emphasizes how quickly racial, ethnic and nationality descriptors become meaningless - particularly in our increasingly multicultural world.

My "race/ethnicity" has change multiple times throughout my life so far. Who knows what I'll be bubbling in on government forms decades from now.
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13274
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm also of the too-young-to-remember-"flesh-colored"-crayons type, although I did hear about the "Indian Red" -> "Chestnut" incident.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1209
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

White person? And call African-Americans black people? Because most whites aren't from the Caucuses and many blacks come from Jamaica, Cuba, or those reasons as opposed to Africa. On a side note, I've always wondered why we say "African-American" but refer to other races as simply "Caucasian", "Asian", etc. as opposed to "Caucasian-American" or "Asian-American", although I have heard the latter used rarely. And yes, I'm not saying that I'd refer to him as "African-American", I'm just saying he proves why it's not a very good term to use. Because he is from Africa, and he's American. But he's not African-American. Which doesn't seem to make sense, even though the PC people say it does.

On a side note, if you go to Britain and say you're Caucasian, they'll ask you where in the Caucasus you're from. And America's not in the Caucasus. And neither are the countries that most white Americans trace their ancestry back to. And I'm sure there are some dark-skinned people who live there too. Which is why it's easier to just say "White person" or "Black person".

And on a side note, I find the "Martin Luther King outstanding African American student" award mentioned in my above post to be as racist as a "Strom Thurmond Outstanding Caucasian Student Award" but that's just me.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 680
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, it's not a great term to use...which is perhaps why the US government phased out using "African-American" alone over a decade ago. The form reads "Black or African-American". (For the record, they also don't use "Caucausian"; it's "White".}

The problem anytime you get into Race or Gender or Ethnicity is that you kind of have to be responsive to what people want to classify themselves as...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 6627
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 658
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 2:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Though the more I think about it, is there really a single color that would describe even most white skin? Even groups from different parts of Europe have very different "typical" skin tones...the Spanish verus the English versus the Irish. As I said, there isn't a single color orange. There are many shades--some with a lot of yellow, some with a lot of red or pink. So I think primmet is as much of a single color as orange.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 6632
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, my concern is not with the range of skin tones among "white" people as with a particular color, formerly called 'flesh' that is common among white people & that needs a less racist name than 'flesh' & less inaccurate one than 'peach.' So: primmet!!

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