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Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1513
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bob and Joe are both scientists. One day, Bob gives Joe what he (Bob) thinks is a compliment, though some people might be insulted by it. In fact, Joe is offended by what Bob said, but for a completely different reason than most would be.

Bob & Joe = H/A/M.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Bob and Joe involved in the same field? Do they work together?
Would any nonscientist think that what Bob said was a compliment? An insult?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Bob and Joe involved in the same field? Irr, assume yes Do they work together? Probably not
Would any nonscientist think that what Bob said was a compliment? An insult? They would view it as just as complimentary/insulting as a scientist would. And the vast majority of them who thought it insulting would think so for the same reason the vast majority of insulted scientists were insulted. There are some who would view it as insulting for the same reason Joe did. It's hard to get an exact count on them, since most would likely not be the recipient of said comment. Don't focus on the scientist vs. non-scientist distinction too much.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is an experiment relevant? Is research?
Did the attempted compliment involve a pun? A scientific one? Ditto on the perceived insult?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is an experiment relevant? Is research? Well, Bob was complimenting Joe's research. But it isn't exactly relevant what that research was.
Did the attempted compliment involve a pun? A scientific one? Ditto on the perceived insult? No to all
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the compliment involve a comparison (as in, "You did that as well as __________" or "You are as smart as __________" or "You are the next _[famous person]__")?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he say "Congratulations! You've almost caught up with my research"?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the compliment involve a comparison Yope. Good question! (as in, "You did that as well as __________" This is closest or "You are as smart as __________" This is close too or "You are the next _[famous person]__")? But not this
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, missed Shez's question

did he say "Congratulations! You've almost caught up with my research"? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Comparison to: a person? A group? A profession? A company? An organization?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Comparison to: a person? this A group? A profession? A company? An organization?

Hint: Find out exactly what the comparison was
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a comparison person to person? In the form "you are [better than] <person>"?Comparison: better than? Worse than? No worse than? Just like? Not like?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a comparison person to person? Yope In the form "you are [better than] <person>"? Yes Comparison: better than? this one Worse than? No worse than? Just like? Not like? this was implied in his statement. No to the rest.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slight clarification. It was in the form "you are better than [description of person] [person]". The addition of the [description of person] portion is relevant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The person compared to: Bob? Another scientist? Someone well-known?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 2:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The person compared to: Bob? No Another scientist? Yope Someone well-known? Well, they were well known within the scientific community. Outside it, probably not.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 5:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are better than <derogatory> <person>? <profession> <person>? <compliment> <person>? <generic> <person>? <false> <person>? Did Joe look up to that person? Was Joe really better than that person? Did Joe aspire to be like that person? Was that person a friend of Joe's? Was the comment an insult to that person? If so, is that why Joe took offense?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You are better than <derogatory> <person>? <profession> <person>? <compliment> <person>? <generic> <person>? None of these really, though it may have been somewhat generic <false> <person>? Yes! Good question Did Joe look up to that person? Noish Was Joe really better than that person? NO! Good question. Did Joe aspire to be like that person? I'm not really sure how to answer this. I'm going to say yope Was that person a friend of Joe's? No Was the comment an insult to that person? Yes, could mislead If so, is that why Joe took offense? Yesish. As for the other people who would take offense to such a comment (but for a different reason), it would be a flat out yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're better than that [hack|bastard|idiot|faker|criminal|incompetent|pathetic] <person>? Does Joe agree with Bob's false assessment of the person? Relevant? Does <person> work in the same field as Joe? does Joe know <person?> Tom? Is Tom present? Relevant what he does? What he's known for? Have Bob worked with Tom? Has Joe?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're better than that [hack|bastard|idiot|faker|criminal|incompetent|pathetic] <person>? No, it's not an inherently insulting phrase, it's just not an accurate description in this case, which creates the insult. And it might be insulting in general when used in a comparison (even if it were an accurate description). But when used outside a comparison (i.e. "You're a <descriptor>") it would be fine and not insulting in the least. Does Joe agree with Bob's false assessment of the person? No Relevant? Yes Does <person> work in the same field as Joe? Yes, could mislead does Joe know <person?> Yes, I suppose, DOYD/svv of "know". Could mislead. Tom? If you're referring to the person in the comparison as "Tom", you can't. Choose a different name. However, I will answer the questions about Tom as they would apply to that person. Is Tom present? Yope/yesish Relevant what he does? Somewhat What he's known for? Somewhat Have Bob worked with Tom? Irr, probably not though Has Joe? I'm not really sure how to answer this. Yope is the best answer I can think of.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person in the comparison a fictional character?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person in the comparison a fictional character? No, OTWT
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is <person> HAM?
Was the insult insulting simply because it was incorrect? Because it was the wrong profession? nationality? Gender? Any of those traits relevant to Joe? <person>?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is <person> HAM? No, H/A/F. Good question!
Was the insult insulting simply because it was incorrect? No Because it was the wrong profession? No nationality? No Gender? No Any of those traits relevant to Joe? <person>? Gender is relevant, though I don't think that's the best word to use.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so Tom is a woman? Tomasina? was he insulted because he was compared to a woman?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2011 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so Tom is a woman? Yes Tomasina? haha sure. was he insulted because he was compared to a woman? No.

As a RECAP Bob said to Joe "You are better than <descriptor> Tomasina". But in this case, <descriptor> wasn't true. In cases where <descriptor> was true, some people might be insulted, though it still could be considered a compliment. However, in this case, Joe was insulted, and rightly so.

Also, if I've been unclear, I'm sorry. I'm not sure <descriptor> is the best way to describe what Bob said, but I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it. So, if you want to try to clarify yourself, go ahead.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2011 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the descriptor a noun? A profession? "You are better than that X Tomasina"?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that genius?

is it that the descriptor could be taken to indicate sarcasm?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the descriptor a noun? Well, another word and a noun. I'm not sure what part of speech the other word is, but it's what my second grade teacher would call a "helping word". A profession? No "You are better than that X Tomasina"? "You are better than <other> <noun> Tomasina"

that genius? No

is it that the descriptor could be taken to indicate sarcasm? No
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wrote <otherword> <noun> with "otherword" actually having a space between "other" and "word". But that apparently messed it up.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will $poyle this Sunday night if it isn't already done, because I am having surgery on Monday (a week from today).
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

good luck with the surgery. I hope it's nothing too awful
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 2:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "other word" or "noun" emphasize that Tomasina is a woman? Is the insult related to masculinity/femininity?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is either word a swear word?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "other word" or "noun" emphasize that Tomasina is a woman? Sort of with the noun. Not at all with the other word. I'm not sure if it's a preposition, a pronoun, a conjunction, something like that but no. Is the insult related to masculinity/femininity? Not really... Sort of OTRT thoug.

is either word a swear word? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Tomasina a good scientist? A bad one?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a title like "Mr." or "Mrs."? Does it incorrectly portray Tomasina's marital status? or would it in fact only make sense if describing a man (and thus, the comparison is actually made to a spouse or relative of the scientist, who himself was not a scientist at all!)?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Tomasina a good scientist? Probably this, but... A bad one?

Is it a title like "Mr." or "Mrs."? No Does it incorrectly portray Tomasina's marital status? No or would it in fact only make sense if describing a man (and thus, the comparison is actually made to a spouse or relative of the scientist, who himself was not a scientist at all!)? Huh? Rephrase this. I'm not sure what you mean, but you may be on to something.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she a good scientist but a bad something else? relevant to this puzzle?

is Tomasina married to Bob? Joe? otherwise related to one of them?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she a good scientist but a bad something else? relevant to this puzzle? irr

is Tomasina married to Bob? Joe? No to both otherwise related to one of them? Bob: no. Joe: yope/yesish/DOYD of "related"
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe's girlfriend? Joe's ex?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Joe's girlfriend? Joe's ex? No to both, completely OTWT, though I suppose "ex" would be accurate for an extremely svv of "ex". (Is or would it be "extreme svv"?)
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2011 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Otherword:
Preposition: obove? Over? with? beside? by? as? in? for?
Pronoun: him? her? it? they? this? both? each? one?
Conjunction: when? after? because? while? since?

Noun: relation (sister, girlfriend,etc.)? hobbyist (hiker, poet, etc.)? concept (as in, Her Majesty, or Her Highness)? something that would not typically be used to describe a human being (as in "cow")? Something that would not typically be used to describe a woman (such as "husband" or "monk")? Something related to her lifestyle (lesbian, churchgoer, vegan, etc.)?

Was Tomasina Joe's previous boss? fellow student?
Did they know each other on a professional level? a personal level?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Otherword:
Preposition: obove? Over? with? beside? by? as? in? for?
Pronoun: him? her? it? they? this? both? each? one?
Conjunction: when? after? because? while? since? None of these. I looked it up online. It's a "possessive pronoun".

Noun: relation (sister this was what the word was, but there's an ish because it wasn't true girlfriend,etc.)? hobbyist (hiker, poet, etc.)? concept (as in, Her Majesty, or Her Highness)? something that would not typically be used to describe a human being (as in "cow")? Something that would not typically be used to describe a woman (such as "husband" or "monk")? Something related to her lifestyle (lesbian, churchgoer, vegan, etc.)? No, but Tomasina's lifestyle is relevant.

Was Tomasina Joe's previous boss? fellow student?
Did they know each other on a professional level? a personal level? No to all, except on personal and professional levels for svv of "know". Also, I forgot to mention this before because, knowing the solution, I didn't realize it quite as much, but all these questions about Tomasina's and Joe's relationship are based on an FA. However, the questions about the descriptor were not. At first, I didn't think this was relevant, but thinking it over, it probably is. Sorry about that.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On a different note, I'm willing to grant this puzzle an extension until after my surgery because it's so active and you're so close. I may do the same on the Big Election puzzle if we can get some questions, but I won't do it for the Kissing Up puzzle, which has had no questions in a month. I will now post this message on my other two puzzles.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you are better than our sister Tomasina? my sister? your sister?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you are better than our sister Tomasina? my sister? your sister? this
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Tomasina wasn't actually Joe's sister? Was that the reason for the insult?
Do we need to figure out why Bob called Tomasina "your sister"? Is it because Tomasina and Joe were in the same field?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Tomasina wasn't actually Joe's sister? yes Was that the reason for the insult? there's more to it than that.

Do we need to figure out why Bob called Tomasina "your sister"? That would help, but if you figure out why Joe was offended, the answer to that would logically follow. Either way is fine. Is it because Tomasina and Joe were in the same field? Well, they are, but there's more to it than that. Also, same FA (the one I didn't notice before).
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 4:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so to clear the FA:

Are Joe and Tomasina in the same field?
Have they ever actually met? or do they just "know of" each other? Or does Joe know of Tomasina but not the other way around?
Is Tomasina still alive?
Do they share the same last name?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so to clear the FA: Gosh, why am I answering the really complex part of the puzzle write after surgery ????

Are Joe and Tomasina in the same field? Yope/technically yes yes
Have they ever actually met? or do they just "know of" each other? Or does Joe know of Tomasina but not the other way around? DYOD of "met"
Is Tomasina still alive? Yope/DOYD of "alive"
Do they share the same last name? YES! Good question.

I feel my out of it brain may have given away too much now. Or not enough. We'll see.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I hope your surgery went well and that you will be feeling much better soon. I think you did just fine with the above questions. I am at the same level of curiosity as before.

So, is Tomasina a flesh-and-blood living person?
Is she animated, but not real (as in an android, cartoon character, or computer program)?
Is she a female image (such as a drawing) that is not animated?
Is she an object that, while completely void of female attributes, has been given a female name (the way people name boats and such)?
Is it an object with some female attribute that I have not listed above?
Is she a plant?

Is she, or has she ever been, alive in the biological sense?
Is she, or has she ever been, dead in the biological sense?
Does Tomasina have parents?
Anything supernatural going on?

By "met", had Joe
met her face to face the way people generally meet?
communicated with her using a device (telephone, Internet, etc.)?
communicated with her some other way (such as messengers or letters)?
worked with her in some other capacity?
"used" her (if she is not a flesh-and-blood human being)?

Is the specific last name relevant? Something common in English-speaking countries?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she a fictional character? book? film? TV?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is Tomasina a flesh-and-blood living person? Yes
Is she animated, but not real (as in an android, cartoon character, or computer program)? no
Is she a female image (such as a drawing) that is not animated? No
Is she an object that, while completely void of female attributes, has been given a female name (the way people name boats and such)? No
Is it an object with some female attribute that I have not listed above? No
Is she a plant? no

The above are all very OTWT and probably based on an FA As well

Is she, or has she ever been, alive in the biological sense? She is now, with a slight ish.
Is she, or has she ever been, dead in the biological sense? Other than before she was born, no.
Does Tomasina have parents? Yes, although if you're asking whether they're alive, irr
Anything supernatural going on? No

By "met", had Joe
met her face to face the way people generally meet? No, fA
communicated with her using a device (telephone, Internet, etc.)?
communicated with her some other way (such as messengers or letters)?
worked with her in some other capacity?
"used" her (if she is not a flesh-and-blood human being)? No to all, same FA though all except the last one could be true for an extremely literal interpretation of the question.

Is the specific last name relevant? Something common in English-speaking countries? Irr
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so in reading over my previous answers again I've realized I've misled you completely. The answers are correct from what I can tell, but are completely misleading due to the FA you have. I'm not going to go through and answer them again since that would take a long time and I suspect you would have phrased some of them diffierently if you weren't misled which means answering them could be misleading as well, so just bear in mind that you are missing a VERY important point that I inadvertently ignored. I don't know how to phrase this any better without $poyling this puzzle. So just use some really lateral thinking and you should be fine.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Joe alive? Is Bob alive? Is Tomasina alive?
Is the complisult spoken face-to-face? Over the phone?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 4:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything unusual about Tomasina's birth? Current health?

Is Tomasina biologically or legally related to Joe?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 8:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Tomasina some sort of typing error? like someone or something should have referred to Mr X and had put Miss or Mrs X, when actually they were referring to Joe?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Bob's compliment was in the form "You are better than [my|your|our|their|someone's] sister, Tomasina." ?

Did the complisult include the name 'Tomasina,' or is that just our puzzle reference?

In Joe's interpretation of Bob's statement, did Joe hear Bob correctly?

Is the precise possessive pronoun represented by [my|your|our|their|someone's] key to understanding how the comment may be understood as an insult in various ways? If so, is it any one of those listed?

Is Tomasina debilitated or incapable in some way (autistic, coma, etc.)?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Also, best wishes on your surgery, I hope your recovery is swift.)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Joe alive? Is Bob alive? Is Tomasina alive? They are all alive, but same FA that I somehow missed to mention until it was already established fact because I was confused from my surgery.


Is the complisult spoken face-to-face? Over the phone? Irr

So, Bob's compliment was in the form "You are better than [my|your|our|their|someone's] sister, Tomasina." ? <b> We've already established it was specificaly "... your [Joe's] sister ..."

Did the complisult include the name 'Tomasina,' or is that just our puzzle reference? Tomasina is just a made up name because someone asked to call her Tom but we can't. I believe it included her name, but that's irrelevant.

In Joe's interpretation of Bob's statement, did Joe hear Bob correctly? If I'm correct, you're asking if Joe's interpretation of Bob's statement was due to mishearing a word. If so, no. But you're making an FA that I thought we had already resolved (other than the other overarching FA that I screwed up on). So I'm posting a recap below. And given the fact that I was about to have/just had brain surgery whhen I posted this, my answers may be confusing (even aside from the complete elimination of an FA which cannot be clarified now without $poyling the puzzle.

Is the precise possessive pronoun represented by [my|your|our|their|someone's] key to understanding how the comment may be understood as an insult in various ways? If so, is it any one of those listed? I guess.... This is the closest you've come yet to the solution. But keep in mind Bob wouldn't have used any other pronouns in this situation. I'll clarify in the recap below.

Is Tomasina debilitated or incapable in some way (autistic, coma, etc.)? Not this


*****RECAP WITH A FEW SMALL HINTS BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT MINOR DETAILS WE INCLUDED*****

First, as a disclaimer there is a major FA in this recap that I failed to clarify until it was too late and unfortunately it's too late to clear it up without $poyling the puzzle. But one very major assumption you've been making is wrong. Remember that. Bob, a scientist, said to Joe, also a scientist "you are a much better scientist than your sister Tomasina". Note that Tomasina is not her real name, just one we made up, but Bob referenced her by her real first name, not Tomasina.

Bob believed that Tomasina was Joe's sister when he made the remark. Were this the case, Joe could still be insulted since Tomasina was actually a scientist and if they were in the same line of work, Joe could be reasonably insulted by being compared to her, even positively. After all, in a way it's an insult to Tomasina, which is an insult to him since he's her brother (so Bob thought.)

But, Joe was not Tomasina's sister. So, the statement was even more insulting and anyone put in that situation (which would be very few other scientists) would likely be completely outraged (as was Joe presumably, though nothing he did or said in a fit of rage is relevant.) Some of this was specifically due to the fact that Bob referred to Tomasina as "your" sister, though there isn't any other pronoun he would have or could have used in this case, provided he actually thought it was true and wasn't just making up sentences for the sake of saying them. Knowing this will help you figure out what "this case" is though. Although all characters are currently alive as flesh and blood human beings, it would be inaccurate to simply classify Tomasina as "alive" without clearing up the FA. But that being said, she's not dead either, at least not biologically. Finally, Tomasina is not debilitated or incapable in any way, but there is some very relevant and unusual aspect of her that will help you solve this.


Additionally, if you want to give me some slighhtly modified statements Bob could have said to Joe (changing the pronoun(s), the characters involved, the relation, the comparison, or any other part you want but not the whole form of the question) I will say if that would be insulting, neutral, complimentary, or impossible (all of this presuming Bob legitimately and reasonably, but not necessarily falsely believed what he was saying to be true.) Go for it. It may help.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joe have a sister named Tomasina who was not a scientist?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you didn't answer my question about whether Tomasina really exists or is a typing error or something when someone had intended to address Joe - I take it that's a no then?

has Joe changed sex? was he previously Tomasina?

hope the surgery was a success and you're feeling good again
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I think Shez got it. I actually remember reading such a story, where a female scientist transitioned to male and then was called a better scientist by those who didn't know, revealing that those others had been prejudiced against her as a woman.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have just realised that my last question came a bit too close to asking about the surgery - I wasn't actually suggesting that you'd had gender realignment surgery - I think it might take a bit longer to recover!
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joe have a sister named Tomasina who was not a scientist? No, but see below!

you didn't answer my question about whether Tomasina really exists or is a typing error or something when someone had intended to address Joe - I take it that's a no then? see below

has Joe changed sex? Yes! was he previously Tomasina? Indeed!

hope the surgery was a success and you're feeling good again

Oh, I think Shez got it. I actually remember reading such a story, where a female scientist transitioned to male and then was called a better scientist by those who didn't know, revealing that those others had been prejudiced against her as a woman. Yeah. I read that story too.

I have just realised that my last question came a bit too close to asking about the surgery - I wasn't actually suggesting that you'd had gender realignment surgery - I think it might take a bit longer to recover! Indeed. Awkward....


Anyway....



*****SPOILER*******

So this happened once to one (male) scientist, Ben Barnes (Joe). But Ben wasn't always Ben. He used to be Barbara Barnes, who, of course, had the same last name as Ben, same family. So, one day, some other scientist (Bob) says to (or about, really doesn't matter, but we were going on the premise that it was said directly to him) "Your work is better than what your sister Barbara did" or something to that effect. Of course, if Barbara were Ben's sister, it would still be insulting to Barbara, and therefore potentially to Ben, but in reality Barbara was Ben before he got the sex change. The (very small and not necessarily representative of sexual discrimination) study also showed that both scientists who transitioned from male to female saw their careers plummet afterwards. Barbara/Ben, on the other hand, saw his rise. Look for my new puzzle soon.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

great puzzle, thanks! and I think we were being particularly dense

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