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Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 688
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

First he won, but then he lost much more.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13780
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He #1 = He #2?
Did he lose the same thing he won?
Did he win a game? Money? A contest? A prize?
Did he lose money? Did he die? Did someone else die?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 810
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how much time elapsed between "first" and "then"? If so: minutes? hours? days? weeks? months? years?

Is the initial winning a direct cause of subsequent loss?
Were both the initial winning and the subsequent loss caused by the same factor?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 689
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He #1 = He #2? Yes
Did he lose the same thing he won? No
Did he win a game? No
Money? No
A contest? Yesish
A prize? No
Did he lose money? No
Did he die? Yes
Did someone else die? No


Relevant how much time elapsed between "first" and "then"? Yes
If so: minutes? Seconds to minutes
hours?
days?
weeks?
months?
years?

Is the initial winning a direct cause of subsequent loss? Yesish
Were both the initial winning and the subsequent loss caused by the same factor? Yope
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 790
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the intial win a bet? or a tantime?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 791
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wa it a duel?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the intial win a bet? Yope to Yesish or a tantime? What's a tantime?
wa it a duel? DOYD of duel
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, if you mean tantieme, as in a profit share, then no. No money is involved/relevant.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry about the missing "s"es but for some reason the s on my laptop doesn't work at home.

a tantime is when a group of people agree that the last one standing will inherit a wadge of money - the inspiration for many a murder story. I've probably spelt it wrong
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 699
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry about the missing "s"es but for some reason the s on my laptop doesn't work at home. No problem at all :-)

a tantime is when a group of people agree that the last one standing will inherit a wadge of money - the inspiration for many a murder story. I've probably spelt it wrong Ah, I see. Thanks for the explanation. It's nothing like that, though.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a sportsman?

If yes I think I might know this so will bow out.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he cheat at something?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a sportsman? No

If yes I think I might know this so will bow out. But since he's not, feel free to stick around :-)

did he cheat at something? No
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, folks, out I am. I'll probably have little to no opportunity to go online this weekend which is why I might not answer any questions before Monday. Don't let this keep you from posting more questions, though! :-D

Have a nice weekend!
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 798
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he win a title? friends?

Darwin award?

a duel as in two people aiming to kill each other?

a duel as in two drivers trying to beat each other? off the road?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he win a title? friends? No to both

Darwin award? Yes

a duel as in two people aiming to kill each other? No

a duel as in two drivers No trying to beat each other? Yes off the road? No...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so he was racing someone, beat them? overtook them? and then crashed?

was either a truck driver?

both ordinary cars?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so he was racing someone, beat them? overtook them? and then crashed?

was either a truck driver?

both ordinary cars?

FA - they aren't drivers, so no to all. However...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they in a running race against each other?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they in a running race against each other? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He won Darwin award. Was that the "first he won" referenced in the title?

It seems like it couldn' be, since Darwin awards are given after the fact. Yes?

Did he also win the duel and that's what's in the puzzle statement?
And died (being the lost part of the puzzle)?

To clarify, was he racing?
Trying to get somewhere first?
Do something first?

You said not in a car. Was he:
In a contraption of his own making?
Riding an animal?
Flying?
Travelling over water?

Is the other person involved relevant?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He won Darwin award. Yes Was that the "first he won" referenced in the title? No

It seems like it couldn' be, since Darwin awards are given after the fact. Yes? Right.

Did he also win the duel and that's what's in the puzzle statement? Yes
And died (being the lost part of the puzzle)? Exactly

To clarify, was he racing? No. No racing involved at all.
Trying to get somewhere first? No
Do something first? NO!

You said not in a car. Was he:
In a contraption of his own making?
Riding an animal?
Flying?
Travelling over water? FA - not traveling at all.

Is the other person involved relevant? Just that that person lost the competition and lives.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason for the duel relevant? Were they dueling with weapons? Real ones? Fake ones? Were they reenacting a famous duel?

Oh, wait, I might know this -- is a movie relevant?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason for the duel relevant? No Were they dueling with weapons? Real ones? Fake ones? Were they reenacting a famous duel? None of those, it's more of a competition really.

Oh, wait, I might know this -- is a movie relevant? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he trying to do something second?
Be the last to arrive somewhere?

Was he inside or outside when he died?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he trying to do something second? He tried to be the last to do something, but since he competed against only one other person, this would be a Yes.
Be the last to arrive somewhere? But not this

Was he inside or outside when he died? Outside
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the competition involve doing something dangerous?
Maybe he won by doing something that resulted in his death?

That would be too obvious, but I'm thinking about something like two guys competing about who would stay longer underwater, and then the winner dies of oxygen deprivation.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the competition involve doing something dangerous? Yes
Maybe he won by doing something that resulted in his death? Yesish. He basically did the same as his competitor and he would've lived, too, if...

That would be too obvious, but I'm thinking about something like two guys competing about who would stay longer YES underwater No, and then the winner dies of oxygen deprivation. No

This actually is a very good line of thought. Keep guessing.
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heh, beginner's luck!

Did the competition involve...
any kind of vehicle?
a tool?
a weapon?
animals?
plants?
some kind of strenous physical activity?
consuming some kind of food or beverage?

Did the unlucky winner forget to do something that one would usually do after completing the activity involved in the competition? Or for any reason neglected to do such thing?

Is that kind of competition common, or was is some crazy idea of this guy and his friend? Would it be correct to asume that normally there is no real danger in that activity, but it was fatal to him because of his unusual stupidity / forgetfulness / bad luck?

Did any external factors contribute to his death, or was it only a result of his actions? (or lack thereof?)

I'm thinking about the "staying longer part"... could it involve:
staying longer in an enviroment hostile to humans?
enduring something unpleasant or painful, say holding a very hot object in one's hand?

OK, enough questions for now, let's see the answers.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Heh, beginner's luck! Indeed ^^

Did the competition involve...
any kind of vehicle?
a tool?
a weapon?
animals?
plants?
some kind of strenous physical activity? YES
consuming some kind of food or beverage?

Did the unlucky winner forget to do something that one would usually do after completing the activity involved in the competition? No
Or for any reason neglected to do such thing? Not sure how to answer that. He knew he had to do something after he won but he failed to do it, resulting in his death. Explore.

Is that kind of competition common, I'd say so... or was is some crazy idea of this guy and his friend? ...but in their case, there's something unusual that definitely made it crazy. You might want to explore this first.
Would it be correct to asume that normally there is no real danger in that activity, Yes, if done under... umm... let's say less special circumstances but it was fatal to him because of his unusual stupidity / forgetfulness / bad luck? Probably a combination of all this, plus...

Did any external factors contribute to his death, or was it only a result of his actions? (or lack thereof?) His actions alone probably led to his death, but external forces are involved, too. Explore to find out what made their competition so crazy.

I'm thinking about the "staying longer part"... could it involve:
staying longer in an enviroment hostile to humans? Not per se...
enduring something unpleasant or painful, Yes to both say holding a very hot object in one's hand? But not that. Good thought, though.

OK, enough questions for now, let's see the answers. Hope this is helpful :-)
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, oh, oh...

BLOOPER:

Did the competition involve...
any kind of vehicle? Not directly
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for my dirty thoughts if I'm wrong, but did it have anything to do with sex?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for my dirty thoughts if I'm wrong, but did it have anything to do with sex? No, it didn't
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the immediate cause of death:
a stroke or a heart attack?
being smashed by a heavy object?
falling from a considerate height?
being ran over by a vehicle?
drowning?
being burn in a fire?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, my first guess was off, but now I think I know this. Should I e-mail?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the immediate cause of death:
a stroke or a heart attack?
being smashed by a heavy object?
falling from a considerate height? This
being ran over by a vehicle? This happened, too, after his fall.
drowning?
being burn in a fire?

OK, my first guess was off, but now I think I know this. Should I e-mail? Sure. You can do so on Facebook since my e-mail address is not displayed here.
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before the fall,
was he suspended / flying in the air, or rather standing in an elevated spot?
on a balcony?
on a roof?
on a branch of a tree?

Did he fall from a height greater than
10m? 20m? 30m? .... 100m? ... 1000m?
Did the competitor fall as well but didn't harm himself, or rather avoided the fall?

Was being above ground neccesary to perform the competition? Would it be even possible to do on ground level?

Between hitting ground and being ran over,
was he alive?
wounded?
is it relevant?

I've got a newbie question as well. If I think I might know the answer, should I post my guess here, or rather e-mail the author of the puzzle? At what point is it OK to post a full answer (possibly wrong) in the thread?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Before the fall,
was he suspended Yopish / flying No in the air, Not really or rather standing No in an elevated spot? Yesish
on a balcony?
on a roof?
on a branch of a tree? None of those

Did he fall from a height greater than
10m? Approximately 20m? 30m? .... 100m? ... 1000m?
Did the competitor fall as well No but didn't harm himself, or rather avoided the fall? Yes

Was being above ground neccesary to perform the competition? Would it be even possible to do on ground level? Yes, but it would've been less of a thrill

Between hitting ground and being ran over,
was he alive?
wounded?
is it relevant? No

I've got a newbie question as well. If I think I might know the answer, should I post my guess here, or rather e-mail the author of the puzzle? At what point is it OK to post a full answer (possibly wrong) in the thread?
Good question... I honestly don't know, but as far as I'm concerned, the solution to this very puzzle could just as well be posted here now. I don't really think that at this point, it'd be a premature solve since the greatest part of it has already been figured out or can be figured out by putting together what you already know.
What is still missing is "What was the competition between the HAMs and what made it so dangerous?"
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FB message sent.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin, your solution is correct.
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he win the competition because the other guy surrendered or quit?

Did the competition involve hanging on a rope?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he win the competition because the other guy surrendered or quit? Yes. The other one couldn't carry on.

Did the competition involve hanging Yesish on a rope? No
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he die because he didn't leave the dangerous hanging position the usual safe way but instead jumped, or "walked away" as if he wasn't above ground?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he die because he didn't leave the dangerous hanging position Yesish. Explore. the usual safe way but instead jumped, or "walked away" as if he wasn't above ground? No to those, though.
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the competition planking? (I admit I've never head about it before, but Googled it trying to find the answer to this) Where they lying on their stomachs on a road sign, or a board overlooking a road? Did the winner die because, say, instead of walking down gently or letting someone help him get down, instead he threw his hands away in a triumphant gesture and fell?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the competition planking? No (I admit I've never head about it before, but Googled it trying to find the answer to this)
Where they lying No on their stomachs So, no on a road sign, No or a board No overlooking a road? YES
Did the winner die because, say, instead of walking down gently No, FA or letting someone help him get down, No, same FA instead he threw his hands away in a triumphant gesture and fell? No, but...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they hanging by their hands?

did he let go to wave or something?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the winner not have enough strength left to get to safety?
Was there some outside danger and he didn't let go in time?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were they hanging by their hands? YES
did he let go to wave or something? No
Did the winner not have enough strength left to get to safety? YES
Was there some outside danger and he didn't let go in time? No


You-know-what's coming right up...
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*********** SPOILER ***********

http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2005-13.html


quote:

(31 May 2005, Seattle, Washington) Strength and endurance are two of the most important characteristics that can be passed on to improve the species, so physical challenges between males are frequent. In this case, two drinking buddies found themselves on an overpass 40 feet above a busy freeway in downtown Seattle at 2:45 a.m. It turned out to be the perfect place to determine who had more strength and endurance. Whoever could dangle from the overpass the longest would win!

Unfortunately, the winner was too tired from his victory to climb back up, despite help from his 31-year-old friend. The unidentified champion fell smack into the front of a semi-truck barreling down the highway at 60 mph and bounced onto the pavement, where he was hit by a car. The car did not stop. Authorities did not identify the winner of the competition.




To explain the puzzle title, it refers to the winner's strength. If he had been weaker, he would have given up before his friend did and even if he hadn't had enough strength left then, maybe his friend would've been more able to help him. If he had been stronger, he could've climbed back up on his own.

Great work, everyone and congrats to Vesica for the solve and Balin for his correct suggestion!
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 857
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks Potato, nice one!

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