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Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...in fact, ten out of eleven's pretty good. I do feel sorry for Five, though...
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Addendum: Doctor Who is not at all relevant. *facepalm* I only just realised it might look that way. Sorry if I gave any of you an FA about the puzzle.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is ten out of eleven a score? or are the eleven people?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Five a person? An animal? an object?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is ten out of eleven a score? no...maybe the tiniest of ishes, DOYD of 'score' or are they eleven people? they are indeed

Is Five a person? this one An animal? an object?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 5:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are 'even' (like 0,2,4,6...) and 'odd' (like 1,3,5,7...)important?

Is one-to-one correspondence (as in set theory) important?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 6:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are 'even' (like 0,2,4,6...) and 'odd' (like 1,3,5,7...)important? not particularly, no

Is one-to-one correspondence (as in set theory) important? *blinks in confusion* What theory? I have a feeling I never covered that...or maybe it just wasn't called that. I fail at math.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a vote? a survey?

were the 11 people a team? like a sports team or a quiz team?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a vote? a survey?

were the 11 people a team? like a sports team or a quiz team? a soccer team?

and number five is the only one who didn't want to do something? or didn't want to do it that way?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Five the person's name? Is the person H/A/M? A famous person? Maybe a king, such as Henry V? A real person? If so, [LTPF list of centuries] when he/she lived. A fictional person? If so, from a book? movie? computer game?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a vote? a survey? no to both

were the 11 people a team? like a sports team or a quiz team? not a team, but they had something in common


Is Five the person's name? no Is the person H/A/M? H/C/F A famous person? not in the least Maybe a king, such as Henry V? no, but bonus marks for remembering I am a royalty freak. This is one of my other interests. A real person? Yes, very real If so, [LTPF list of centuries] when he/she lived. 20th A fictional person? If so, from a book? movie? computer game? so not these
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

my apologies, Shez, I missed these important questions! =(

and number five is the only one who didn't want to do something? on the contrary, if she had a choice in the matter, I'm sure she would want to have done something or didn't want to do it that way? they all got to do something, DOYD of 'something' which she, tragically, was excluded from
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they all take part in a competition or tournament?
And everyone but Five won something?
Or achieved a certain number of points?
Or were explicitly listed somewhere?
Or mentioned by someone?

Are all of the eleven children?
Did they all go to the same school/kindergarten?
To the same class?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they all take part in a competition or tournament? well, I'm sure no one but Darwin would call it that
And everyone but Five won something? Well, for svv of 'won', conditioned by the above
Or achieved a certain number of points? 'Points' isn't the right word
Or were explicitly listed somewhere? They can be found on a certain website or two
Or mentioned by someone? oh, over and over again, the 'someone' might be useful to find out, though I strongly doubt you'd know who he is

Are all of the eleven children? well, they were at one point
Did they all go to the same school/kindergarten? I believe so, but not necessarily at the same time. They've got more in common.
To the same class? At one point or another, most likely
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a test relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a test relevant? no
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin:

My old (confusing) question:
--------------------
one-to-one correspondence (as in set theory) would be like in the game "musical chairs", if there is a chair for everyone playing, that is one-to-one correspondence -- if there is not a chair for everyone playing, that is not one-to-one correspondence.

Question is better asked another way:

If Five were exactly the same in every way except now being sixth instead of being fifth, does anything change as far as who you would feel sorry for? Would you still feel sorry for Five even though Five is now sixth? or would you feel sorry in the same way for the new five as you did for the old Five?
---------------------


New questions:

The capitalization of "F" in "Five, this is important in solving the puzzle? That is to say, is there a special meaning in the puzzle conveyed by your intentional selection of the uppercase (or capital or big) "F" rather than a lowercase (or little or small) "f"?

Do all 11 share the same parents? Share at least one parent in common? Belong to the same family?

Was Five excluded by being born in a certain condition? Or excluded by having an hereditary affliction? hereditary lack of a physiological nature? Or simply excluded by virtue of being number five?

Is Five not able to bear children? Is Five excluded from doing something connected with bearing children?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin:

My old (confusing) question:
--------------------
one-to-one correspondence (as in set theory) would be like in the game "musical chairs", if there is a chair for everyone playing, that is one-to-one correspondence -- if there is not a chair for everyone playing, that is not one-to-one correspondence. Ah, thank you.

Question is better asked another way:

If Five were exactly the same in every way except now being sixth instead of being fifth, does anything change as far as who you would feel sorry for? Would you still feel sorry for Five even though Five is now sixth? yes or would you feel sorry in the same way for the new five as you did for the old Five? no
---------------------


New questions:

The capitalization of "F" in "Five, this is important in solving the puzzle? That is to say, is there a special meaning in the puzzle conveyed by your intentional selection of the uppercase (or capital or big) "F" rather than a lowercase (or little or small) "f"? I referred to her as "Five" instead of by her name, just because she's fifth in the sequence.

Do all 11 share the same parents? YesShare at least one parent in common? Belong to the same family? So yes and yes

Was Five excluded by being born in a certain condition? I don't think so Or excluded by having an hereditary affliction? not that I know of hereditary lack of a physiological nature? not that I know of Or simply excluded by virtue of being number five? not this either

Is Five not able to bear children? well...yes, although... Is Five excluded from doing something connected with bearing children? Yes, because...
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify things:

Five is HCF, right?
And you answered "Is Five not able to bear children?" with Yes.
So did you mean that Five cannot become pregnant?
If so, is that just because she's still a child?
Or does she have a condition making her unable to have children of her own?
Or does the "Yes" mean that she can become pregnant?
Otherwise, does "bear" in this context not mean "be pregnant" but "stand"?
So that she feels uncomfortable among children?
So that she doesn't like being with (too many of) her siblings, making her kind of an outsider when it comes to playing together and the likes?
Or is Five, in fact, the only one of 11 (adult) siblings who doesn't have children?
Because she doesn't want any?
Or because she can't have any?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Five the only girl among 10 boys?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or if gender isn't relevant, is there anything about Five's appearance that makes her looks stand out from those of all her siblings?
To the point that other people might think that she doesn't have the very same set of parents as her siblings?
Like all their siblings are blond and she's the only one with brown hair or vice versa?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 3:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify things:

Five is HCF, right? I'd say 'was' not is, but Yes
And you answered "Is Five not able to bear children?" with Yes. Yes, I did
So did you mean that Five cannot become pregnant? just so
If so, is that just because she's still a child? well, she was
Or does she have a condition making her unable to have children of her own? well, you could call it that
Or does the "Yes" mean that she can become pregnant? she cannot
Otherwise, does "bear" in this context not mean "be pregnant" but "stand"? not in the least
So that she feels uncomfortable among children? I cannot say for sure what she felt, but I doubt that
So that she doesn't like being with (too many of) her siblings, making her kind of an outsider when it comes to playing together and the likes? not in the least
Or is Five, in fact, the only one of 11 (adult) siblings who doesn't have children? No, and FA
Because she doesn't want any?
Or because she can't have any? she could not have any
Is Five the only girl among 10 boys? she was not

Or if gender isn't relevant, is there anything about Five's appearance that makes her looks stand out from those of all her siblings? size, perhaps?
To the point that other people might think that she doesn't have the very same set of parents as her siblings? no
Like all their siblings are blond and she's the only one with brown hair or vice versa? I do not know what her facial features were like
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She was very much smaller in size? As she was a midget?

Did she suffer an anomalous enlargement of a portion of her anatomy?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She was very much smaller in size? As she was a midget? No, not a midget. She was normal in size for someone of her age, but...

Did she suffer an anomalous enlargement of a portion of her anatomy? No.
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she suffer from a physiological anomaly of some sort related to size as in physical dimension?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she suffer from a physiological anomaly of some sort related to size as in physical dimension? No. *sighs at self* There was nothing physically wrong with her, I am sorry for introducing an FA.

I'm surprised not all the usual questions have been asked yet...

HINT: There *are* ten other people in this puzzle besides Five. You may refer to them by their numbers to ask the usual LTPF questions, if you want.
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 6:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...

If there is/was nothing physically wrong with her, then she could/could have physically become pregnant?

So therefore, there must be a situational reason why she cannot/could not become pregnant?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is being a child the only reason why Five can't become pregnant?

Is Five...
0-5
5-10
10-12
...years old?

Do her parents not want her to be with boys? That is, not even on an innocent, platonic level?
Is the reason why Five wants to be pregnant relevant?

Anything about her living conditions relevant?
If so, is it her or her familiy's...
financial situation?
education?
home?
age (this refers more to her parents and siblings since I've already asked for Five's age)?
health?
religion?
jobs?

Is...
One
Two
Three
Four
Six
Seven
Eight
Nine
Ten
Eleven
...HCF, too?

Did you feel sorry for Five because she can't become pregnant?
Although she would like to?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Five the 5th child of the family?
The 5th girl?
Are all of Five's siblings alive?
If not, is Five the only one who's still alive? The only girl?
Are any of Five's siblings pregnant?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the family survive some kind of calamity? physical? biological? In which no more than half of the population is expected to survive? And the only one who was injured? or died? was Five.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...

If there is/was nothing physically wrong with her, then she could/could have physically become pregnant? she might have been able to, eventually, if...

So therefore, there must be a situational reason why she cannot/could not become pregnant? yes, and so she could not, precisely

Is being a child the only reason why Five can't become pregnant? yes, and...

Is Five...
0-5 11 months
5-10
10-12
...years old?

Do her parents not want her to be with boys? I'm sure they wouldn't have had a problem if... That is, not even on an innocent, platonic level? oh well, she had three older brothers (and a sister)
Is the reason why Five wants to be pregnant relevant? FA...I never said she wanted to be pregnant

Anything about her living conditions relevant? quite likely
If so, is it her or her familiy's...
financial situation? probably not
education? I doubt they were well educated, but I could be wrong. At least by today's standards it's unlikely
home? they were very rural
age (this refers more to her parents and siblings since I've already asked for Five's age)? well, the siblings that were around at the time were 8, 5, 3, and 1 year/s older than her, with the next one probably on the way already when she...
health? most of them were healthy
religion? they were probably all Christians, I should think
jobs? I think their father was a farmer

Is...
One was HAM
Two was HAM
Three was HAF
Four was HAM
Six was HAM
Seven was HAF
Eight was HAF
Nine was HAF
Ten was HAF
Eleven is HAF. Of course, they were all HC's at some point, and the first four were HC's when Five...
...HCF, too?

Did you feel sorry for Five because she can't become pregnant? There's more to it than that
Although she would like to? I'm not sure where I introduced the FA that she would have liked to

Is Five the 5th child of the family? she was
The 5th girl? no, the second
Are all of Five's siblings alive? at the time of this puzzle, only four had been born. Now, only one is (possibly) alive
If not, is Five the only one who's still alive? on the contrary, in fact...
The only girl? not at all
Are any of Five's siblings pregnant? most of her sisters were pregnant at some time or another, but only after she...
Did the family survive some kind of calamity? Not any more so than any early twentieth century family in Oklahoma
physical? biological? In which no more than half of the population is expected to survive? And the only one who was injured? or died? was Five. well, I don't think a calamity was the cause (though it may have been) but you're right, she was the only one who died. Someone care to throw this all together now?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, did the family beat the odds of child mortality by having 10 survivors out of 11, when even 7 ( 2 out of 3 ) would be considered lucky? Your family? :-)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Darn it! Coming in too late for this one. If Emeraldink's solution is correct, that is pretty incredible (10 out of 11). My great-grandmother managed 12 of 13 from the late 1920s-early 1950s.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, did the family beat the odds of child mortality by having 10 survivors out of 11, when even 7 ( 2 out of 3 ) would be considered lucky? Your family? :-) Yes, exactly :-) and their firstborn, here known as "One", was Ernest Johnson Matlock, my maternal grandfather's father. Poor Bonnie May Matlock, his second sister and fourth sibling, didn't even make it to her first year, but all the rest lived to adulthood.

So that's the ***SPOILER***! Well done Emeraldink, and everyone else who participated!


Darn it! Coming in too late for this one. If Emeraldink's solution is correct, that is pretty incredible (10 out of 11). My great-grandmother managed 12 of 13 from the late 1920s-early 1950s.

That's awesome, Vesica! :-) Although I feel pretty sorry for my great-great-grandmother, being pregnant eleven times (at least...I have no idea if there were any stillbirths or miscarriages!)

Info on Florena "Rena" Thomas, my great-great-grandmother, and her family:

BIRTH: 21 MAY 1892, Ozark, Franklin Co., Ark.
DEATH: 09 NOV 1976, Chowchilla, Madera Co., Calif.
BURIAL: Chowchilla Cem., Chowchilla, Madera, Calif.
Father: Isaac "Ike" THOMAS
Mother: Mary Elizabeth FORD

Family 1: Hugh Fines MATLOCK
MARRIAGE: 19 DEC 1907, Sallisaw, Sequoyah Co., Okla.

+Ernest Johnson MATLOCK 23 NOV 1908 - 27 JUL 1995
+Earl Leon MATLOCK 24 JAN 1911 - 02 APR 1977
+Opal Kathleen MATLOCK 20 JUN 1913 - 27 MAR 2005
+Watie Conley MATLOCK 03 JAN 1915 - 03 FEB 1994
Bonnie May MATLOCK 19 NOV 1916 - 22 OCT 1917
+Raymond Wilson MATLOCK 13 AUG 1918 - 02 JUL 1981
+Nadine Ruby MATLOCK 06 MAR 1920 - 02 NOV 1994
+Agnes Louise MATLOCK 23 FEB 1923 - 21 MAY 1997
Geneva Mildred MATLOCK 31 AUG 1924 - 01 MAY 1984
+Dorotha Leola MATLOCK
+Cleo Bernice MATLOCK

The website won't give birth/death data for the last two, but my grandfather (Ernest Matlock, Jr.) says that Dorotha is dead, so only "Bernice" (she went by her middle name) is left. The +'s means those ones had children.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...I have also just belatedly done the math, and Rena was /fifteen/ when she got married. Hugh Matlock was
5 DEC 1888, Dripping Springs, Crawford Co., Ark.
21 MAY 1964, Chowchilla, Madera Co., Calif.

so, marrying in 1907, he was 19. Wow. I imagine that was more common in those days and that region...

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