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Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 972
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill was beaten and became a rich man.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bill - H? A? M?
Beaten - as in physically beaten? Or rather beaten at a contest?
Rich - as in having more money? More things easy to be turned into cash by selling? More wisdom?

Is the location relevant? The time?
Is this a true story?
Any other people relevant?
The one(s) who beat Bill -- one person? More than one? Was he beaten, but not by a particular person?
Is Bill famous (provided that this is a true story)?
Admin (Admin)
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Username: Admin

Post Number: 973
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma,

Bill - H? A? M?
HUMAN, ADULT, MALE

Beaten - as in physically beaten?
YES

Or rather beaten at a contest?
NO

Rich - as in having more money?
YES

More things easy to be turned into cash by selling?
YES

More wisdom?
NO

Is the location relevant?
POSSIBLY A LITTLE

The time?
YES

Is this a true story?
YES

Any other people relevant?
YES

The one(s) who beat Bill -- one person?
I THINK NOT

More than one?
PROBABLY

Was he beaten, but not by a particular person?
YES (I THINK)

Is Bill famous (provided that this is a true story)?
NOT VERY
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is compensation relevant?

was his becoming rich actually connected with having been beaten?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 974
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

is compensation relevant?
YES

was his becoming rich actually connected with having been beaten?
YES
Vesica (Vesica)
New member
Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1630
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very nice to see you, mon capitan! I always enjoy your puzzles.

Was Bill beaten once?
More than once?
Was he beaten with bare hands?
With objects?
Is this relevant?
Is it relevant who beat him?

Time period:
21st century?
20th?
19th?
14th-18th?
Middle ages?
Ancient History (Greece, Rome, Egypt etc.)?

Is time of day of the beating important?
Day?
Evening?
Night?
Very late night?

Did Bill report the beating to the police?
Was the person(s) responsible apprehended?
Did Bill receive compensation from his attackers?
Did Bill receive notoriety as a result?
And this resulted in him getting money
Did Bill get some other benefit from the beating?

Other relevant people:
One?
More than one?
HAM? HAF?
Involved in the beating?
Billís family?
Co-workers?

Is Billís profession relevant?
Is his nationality/country of residence relevant?

Is the time between the beating and Bill becoming rich relevant?
Days?
Weeks?
Months?
Years?
Decades?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 975
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica,

Was Bill beaten once?
NO

More than once?
YES

Was he beaten with bare hands?
POSSIBLY

With objects?
YES

Is this relevant?
NOT MUCH

Is it relevant who beat him?
YES

Time period:
21st century?
20th?
19th?
NO

14th-18th?
YES

Middle ages?
NO

Ancient History (Greece, Rome, Egypt etc.)?
NO

Is time of day of the beating important?
NO

Day?
Evening?
Night?
Very late night?

Did Bill report the beating to the police?
NO

Was the person(s) responsible apprehended?
NO

Did Bill receive compensation from his attackers?
NO

Did Bill receive notoriety as a result?
POSSIBLY

And this resulted in him getting money
NO

Did Bill get some other benefit from the beating?
YES

Other relevant people:
One?
YES

More than one?
OTHERS BUT NOT SO IMPORTANT

HAM? HAF?
HUMAN, ADULT, MALE

Involved in the beating?
Billís family?
Co-workers?
NO

Is Billís profession relevant?
MAYBE

Is his nationality/country of residence relevant?
YES

Is the time between the beating and Bill becoming rich relevant?
YES

Days?
Weeks?
Months?
Years?
YEARS

Decades?
POSSIBLY
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 3950
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

14th century? 15th? 16th? 17th? 18th?

Was Bill a child when the beating occurred? A teenager? a young man? Was he a young man or an old man when he became rich?

did Bill invent something because of the beating?
did he become nobility? royalty?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 976
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaylee,

14th century? 15th? 16th? 17th? 18th?
17TH

Was Bill a child when the beating occurred?
YES

A teenager?
YES

a young man?
NO

Was he a young man or an old man when he became rich?
YOUNG MAN

did Bill invent something because of the beating?
NO

did he become nobility? royalty?
NO
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 3953
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Bill 13? 14? 15? 16? 17? 18? 19?

17th...so, the 1600's. Was Bill's right name William?

But as Bill is not famous, not Will Shakespeare?

Was Bill from England, nevertheless?
Scotland? Ireland? Wales?
France?
Elsewhere in Europe?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 977
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaylee,

was Bill 13? 14? 15? 16? 17? 18? 19?
AT SOME STAGE YES

17th...so, the 1600's. Was Bill's right name William?
CORRECT

But as Bill is not famous, not Will Shakespeare?
CORRECT

Was Bill from England, nevertheless?
YES

Scotland? Ireland? Wales?
France?
Elsewhere in Europe?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member
Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 3954
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me rephrase that first question, and add more:
When he was beaten the first time, was Bill 13? 14? 15? 16? 17? 18? 19? was he beaten many times over the years?

has he got any connection to famous people? family members? friends?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 978
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaylee,

Let me rephrase that first question, and add more:
When he was beaten the first time, was Bill 13? 14? 15? 16? 17? 18? 19?
YOUNGER

was he beaten many times over the years?
YES

has he got any connection to famous people?
YES

family members? friends?
NO, YES
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1220
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Bill beaten at school? by his parents? a relative?

is this a true story? FYOI? FSEI?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 979
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

was Bill beaten at school?
YES

by his parents? a relative?
NO

is this a true story?
YES

FYOI? FSEI?
?????
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1223
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he tell his story to someone who then put it into a book?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 3958
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FYOI = from your own imagination? FSEI = from someone else's imagination?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 980
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

did he tell his story to someone who then put it into a book?

NO
Vesica (Vesica)
New member
Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1640
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Bill was beaten as a child/teenager...
Beaten by schoolmasters?
Priests?
Monks? (Nuns?)

Is Bill an apprentice being beaten by his master?

Did Bill make his money:
Through marriage?
Through patronage or gift of the monarch?
Through trade?
Through an invention?

Is a monarch relevant here?
Succession to the throne?

Is Bill's social class relevant?
Does his class change durin this puzzle?

Bill is not famous, but he is known - since you know the story. Is it relevant how he is known?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 981
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica,

So Bill was beaten as a child/teenager...
CORRECT

Beaten by schoolmasters?
YES

Priests?
Monks? (Nuns?)
MAYBE - DON'T KNOW

Is Bill an apprentice being beaten by his master?
NO

Did Bill make his money:
Through marriage?
NO

Through patronage or gift of the monarch?
YES

Through trade?
Through an invention?
NO

Is a monarch relevant here?
YES

Succession to the throne?
NO

Is Bill's social class relevant?
NO

Does his class change durin this puzzle?
DON'T KNOW

Bill is not famous, but he is known - since you know the story. Is it relevant how he is known?
A LITTLE
Vesica (Vesica)
New member
Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1650
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific monarch relevant?
Is the specific monarch:
Elizabeth I?
James I?
Charles I?
Charles II?
James II?
William & Mary?

Is Bill's profession relevant?

Did the beatings lead directly to his becoming rich?
Or was the main effect of the beatings to make him pay attention in school, thus gaining the skills he later turned to a profession, which made him rich?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 982
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica,

Is the specific monarch relevant?
YES

Is the specific monarch:
Elizabeth I?
James I?

Charles I?
YES

Charles II?
James II?
William & Mary?

Is Bill's profession relevant?
NO

Did the beatings lead directly to his becoming rich?
YES (OR ALMOST DIRECTLY)

Or was the main effect of the beatings to make him pay attention in school, thus gaining the skills he later turned to a profession, which made him rich?
NO
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Username: Fionakelleghan

Post Number: 152
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excuse me if I missed some clues!

Did Bill deserve the beating?

A week later, would Bill say he deserved the beating?

Is Bill's relationships with family relevent?

Is Bill's relationships with animals relevent?

Does our modern language contain a saying, or a famous (or not) quote that concerns what happened to Bill, or what Bill said later?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 983
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fiona,

Did Bill deserve the beating?
NO

A week later, would Bill say he deserved the beating?
NO

Is Bill's relationships with family relevent?
NO

Is Bill's relationships with animals relevent?
NO

Does our modern language contain a saying, or a famous (or not) quote that concerns what happened to Bill, or what Bill said later?
NO
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the famous person he knows Charles I or are we looking for another person as well?

did Bill work for him? was he a courtier?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 984
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

is the famous person he knows Charles I
YES

or are we looking for another person as well?
NO

did Bill work for him?
EFFECTIVELY YES

was he a courtier?
NO
Vesica (Vesica)
New member
Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1661
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*brushes up on this period of English history*

Establishment of the Commonwealth relevant?
Execution of Charles I relevant?

Bill's profession:
Landowner/Lord of the Manor?
Overseas trade?
The church?
Advisor to the court/king?
House of Commons (did they have this yet??)?
The arts?

Did Bill live in teh country?
The city?
Little of both?

Did he make his money within England?
Or overseas?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 985
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica,


Establishment of the Commonwealth relevant?
Execution of Charles I relevant?
NO

Bill's profession:
Landowner/Lord of the Manor?
YES

Overseas trade?
The church?
Advisor to the court/king?
House of Commons (did they have this yet??)?
The arts?
NO

Did Bill live in the country?
NO

The city?
YES

Little of both?

Did he make his money within England?
YES

Or overseas?
NO
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he a landowner before he received compensation for being beaten?

did he receive financial compensation? land? property? something else?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 986
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

was he a landowner before he received compensation for being beaten?
NO (I think)

did he receive financial compensation? land? property? something else?
YES, YES, YES, NO

I AM OFF TO BARCELONA FOR A FEW DAYS SO THERE MAY BE A DELAY IN REPLYS TO THE NEXT FEW QUESTIONS. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME.
Shez (Shez)
New member
Username: Shez

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he a commoner? (before the compensation)he must have been quite well to do before that as he went to school in the first place? or was he not a pupil but someone who worked in the school?

presumably many boys were beaten but did not get compensation - was there something special about Bill? or the person who beat him? was he beaten by Charles II?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 987
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez,

was he a commoner?
PROBABLY - HE WAS NOT TITLED.

(before the compensation)he must have been quite well to do before that as he went to school in the first place?
NOT NECESSARILY

or was he not a pupil but someone who worked in the school?
QUITE POSSIBLY

presumably many boys were beaten but did not get compensation

CORRECT

was there something special about Bill?
YES

or the person who beat him?
NO

was he beaten by Charles II?
NO - HE WAS NOT BEATEN BY ANY ROYAL PERSON
Kalira (Kalira)
New member
Username: Kalira

Post Number: 719
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Bill a whipping boy? for Charles I? Was it customary for whipping boys to be given lots of money at the end of their time as whipping boys? Or did Bill's becoming rich come about under special/specific circumstances?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 4005
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Was Bill a whipping boy?" I should have thought of that, Kalira..."The Whipping Boy" was one of my favourite books in elementary school...has anyone else here read it, I wonder?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Username: Kalira

Post Number: 720
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the risk of throwing this puzzle off topic, the answer to your question is absolutle, Kaylee. Read it many times, and I think I still have a copy in my 'books from my childhood that I need to go through' box. The questions here reminded me of the book, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask :-) Also, given that we're basically the same age, we could probably start entire puzzles that the other (but not the older/younger ones hereabouts) would know the answer to right away... hmm... I think I may have to try that.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 4006
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...I remember the cutthroats smelled like onions and garlic. Should have smelled like cheezburgur. *giggles at Kalira kitteh* =D Hehe, maybe we can continue this in email, or something. :D what do you think?
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 989
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

* * * SPOILER ***

Was Bill a whipping boy? for Charles I?

Kalira - Yes. William Murray was the whipping boy for Charles I. Whenever the young prince was naughty or disobedient it was poor William who was whipped. Charles and William became lifelong friends and Charles gave William the house and grounds at Ham in Richmond. Ham House is an excellent place to visit and remains the one of the finest Jacobean houses and gardens you can find anywhere.
Admin (Admin)
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 990
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More on William and Ham House here

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-hamhouse/w-hamhouse-history.htm
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 4007
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, Kalira got it! =D Excellent puzzle, Admin! (And now the title makes sense, LOL!) *clicks on link*
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1687
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hooray for learning something! Was not aware of that tradition and the house looks really cool. Will have to put it on my list for next time I hop the pond.

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