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Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If they had seen it in writing rather than hearing it, they wouldn't have taken offence
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they = H/A/M? H/A/F? H/A/Mixed?
It 1 = It 2?
True story? FYOI? FSEI?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they = H/A/M? H/A/F? H/A/Mixed? this one
It 1 = It 2? yes
True story? FYOI? FSEI? not sure what FSEI is, but it's not a true story, but it's not from my imagination, either
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a pun involved? Are we talking about a word? A phrase? If a word, is it a homophone with some other, but not a homograph?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FSEI = 'from someone else's imagination', someone else made up a fictional story, so the answer is yes =)

Rbruma: Homograph?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a pun involved? no Are we talking about a word? yes A phrase? If a word, is it a homophone with some other, yes. I think but not a homograph? it has the same spelling but a different meaning, as I understand the definition of homograph
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

FSEI = 'from someone else's imagination', someone else made up a fictional story, so the answer is yes =) indeedy
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I want to be clear, please:

Is the situation here concerning a word like UNIONIZED, which can be pronounced UNIONized or UN-ionized?

Or is it like BEAR, in which we have a noun for a wild animal, or a verb (as when a woman bears a child)?

Wait. Can we name these people? Are there only 2 people, the speaker and the offended person?

If there are more than 2, maybe you can suggest some names.

I'm going to use, umm, Dana and Jean (because they aren't gendered), with Dana being the speaker and Jean being the one who was offended.

Did Dana know that Jean might be offended?

Is the subject of the conversation relevent?

Were they speaking to each other, or did Jean overhear Dana, or vice versa?

Do the spoken words have to do with:
human relationships
politics
their jobs
the arts
their households
their neighborhood
something on TV
a game, a movie, or some other form of entertainment

Good puzzle!
Fiona
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 7:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I want to be clear, please:

Is the situation here concerning a word like UNIONIZED, which can be pronounced UNIONized or UN-ionized? no, the pronunciation is the same

Or is it like BEAR, in which we have a noun for a wild animal, or a verb (as when a woman bears a child)? the sound here is the same, but the example I have is not a noun and a verb

Wait. Can we name these people? Are there only 2 people, the speaker and the offended person? no, there is the speaker and many offended persons

If there are more than 2, maybe you can suggest some names.

I'm going to use, umm, Dana and Jean (because they aren't gendered), with Dana being the speaker and Jean being the one who was offended. as you can see, naming in this way would cause confusion

Did Dana know that Jean might be offended? the speaker did not know that his listener and others would be offended

Is the subject of the conversation relevent? yes

Were they speaking to each other, or did Jean overhear Dana, or vice versa? two people were originally speaking to each other

Do the spoken words have to do with:
human relationships
politics
their jobs
the arts originally, yes
their households
their neighborhood and this was the interpretation of what was said
something on TV
a game, a movie, or some other form of entertainment some form of entertainment

Good puzzle! good progress!
Fiona
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry, I should have said

human relationships no
politics no
their jobs yes
the arts yes
their households no
their neighborhood this was the interpretation of what was said
something on TV no
a game, a movie, or some other form of entertainment some other form of entertainment

Oh, and the listener understood what was meant by the speaker's words, it was another who overheard it who was offended (and thus spread the gossip)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is one interpretation of the word a proper noun? like the name of a town? a suburb? a village? another kind of place name?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is one interpretation of the word a proper noun? if by proper noun you mean a name, then no, the interpretation of the word was just a noun like the name of a town? a suburb? a village? another kind of place name? this one
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the word in its original intent a proper noun? the name of a place? a person? a month? an orchestra?

were the two people discussing a film? play? book? TV program? opera?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the word in its original intent a proper noun? yes the name of a place? a person? this one a month? an orchestra?

were the two people discussing a film? play? this one book? TV program? opera?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the play a musical? An ordinary play?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the play a musical? no An ordinary play? yes, and you will know it!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the person they were discussing an actor? the playwright? a character in the play?

was the interpretation of the word a description of a location? like Street? Park? Block? Garden? Close? Hood?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a Shakespeare play? if so, one of his:
Comedies? (such as "A Midsummer Night's Dream")
Tragedies? (such as "Romeo and Juliet")
Histories?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the person they were discussing an actor? the playwright? a character in the play? this one

was the interpretation of the word a description of a location? yes like Street? Park? Block? Garden? Close? Hood? but not those

a Shakespeare play? yes indeed if so, one of his:
Comedies? (such as "A Midsummer Night's Dream")
Tragedies? yes (such as "Romeo and Juliet") but not that one
Histories?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Macbeth? Othello? Hamlet? King Lear?

Was the character discussed a title character?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Macbeth? Othello? Hamlet? this one King Lear?

Was the character discussed a title character? yes indeed
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was "Hamlet" understood as place name?
as the generic term for small village or neighborhood? or was there a hamlet with the name "Hamlet"?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

.. oh yes, after reading the puzzle statement I take back the last question. : )
Of course, in writing it would be obvious whether it is Hamlet or hamlet.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was "Hamlet" understood as place name?
as the generic term for small village or neighborhood? or was there a hamlet with the name "Hamlet"?

. oh yes, after reading the puzzle statement I take back the last question. : )
Of course, in writing it would be obvious whether it is Hamlet or hamlet. indeed!

so would you like to have a go at finding out what the misunderstanding was, and why people were offended?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think someone was describing their town as a hamlet?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 5:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did one of the people speaking say something derogatory about Hamlet the character (like "This Hamlet is stupid/crazy/etc") and the person overhearing the conversation thought he was referring to the town/hamlet?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 7:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think someone was describing their town as a hamlet? yes, and ...

Did one of the people speaking say something derogatory about Hamlet the character (like "This Hamlet is stupid/crazy/etc") and the person overhearing the conversation thought he was referring to the town/hamlet? the derogatory element is important, yes

Good enough for a

****** SPOILER ********

In GK Chesterton's story 'The Vampire of the Village' two actors were overheard arguing about playing the role of Hamlet. 'You'd be a miserable little Hamlet' was said by one, but overheard by a third person who didn't realise that the play of that name was being talked of. They thought that he was disparaging their village.


Thank you one and all.
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

GREAT puzzle!

This reminds me of a short story by Isaac Asimov in one of his collection of stories about detectives who solve problems at the dinner table.

A Russian, a guest at the dinner, is very upset because, earlier, he overheard some young men talking about murder and binding and darkness and shadows.

He is convinced that someone has been kidnapped and will be murdered.

The solution is that they were Tolkien fans who were talking about the one Ring and about Mordor.

(And I've just realized that, possibly, someone has already used this story for a puzzle.)

Lynx, I'm a newbie, but even without comparison with other puzzles, this one was great! I'll be looking for your next one!

Fiona
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for those kind words! There's still time to squeeze in a final solution to my other puzzle 'Entrapment' if you feel so inclined!
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fiona, I thought I knew all the Black Widowers stories. what is this one called? Is it in a collection?

Nice puzzle, Lynne.
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, Solitiare!

The story title is "Nothing Like Murder" and it's in the collection entitled _More Tales of the Black Widowers_.

I might even have an extra copy to send you.

...Okay, sorry, I went and looked at my paperback shelves and I don't even see my first copy. Maybe I borrowed it from the library.

It might even be online by now.

All best!
Fiona
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** OFF TOPIC ***


Lynne/Lynx-Girl and others:

There is a fun connection between the names Hamlet and Olaf / Olav.

You all know that the non-English languages of the United Kingdom have weird and wonderful spellings for their words.

(I'm being sardonic: English must be one of the worst when it comes to spellings and pronunciations.)

In Gaelic, the name Hamlet is spelled, usually, something like Amhlaoibh.

Welsh "mh" sounds like a W in English. (Samhain is pronounced saw-wen.)

So we keep the "Ah" sound and drop the "mh" for now.

So now we have Awl-aoibh.

Several vowels in a row will drop some vowels, just as we do in English.

"aoi" is pronounced "a" (and very rarely "ee").

"bh" is pronounced like a v (or, sometimes, an f), just as Cuban Spanish speakers will turn a b into a v.

So, put them all together, and

Hamlet = Amhlaoibh = Olav or Olaf
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2011 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Come on, Olaf is Hagar the Horrible's buddy, not the hero of a tragedy!

Thx for the tip re Asimov, Fiona.

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