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Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1875
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

11 days later Katie (H/C/F) and Leon (H/C/M) would have been more successful.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1024
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they do any activity together?
Did they succeed at all?
Did their legal status changed within those 11 days?
Is specific date in calendar relevant?
Holidays relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1876
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they do any activity together? yes
Did they succeed at all? partly
Did their legal status changed within those 11 days? no
Is specific date in calendar relevant? yes
Holidays relevant? if holidays as in "vacation" - no, but holidays as in "a day designated as having special significance" - yes
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1693
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

their birthdays relevant?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 168
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does whatever takes place take place in this cenury, 20th, 19th, 18th, etc?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

their birthdays relevant? no

Does whatever takes place take place in this cenury, 20th, 19th, 18th, etc? 21st century
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

new year?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would you accept the [LTPF List of Holidays]? Are Katie and Leon brother and sister? Some other family relation? Best friends? Non-best friends? Enemies? Classmates? Pen pals? Some other type of connection between them? Or are they just two random children who tried to do the same thing? Or was it the same thing? Did they succeed? Or fail?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

new year? no

Would you accept the [LTPF List of Holidays]? no, that would probably make it too easy Are Katie and Leon brother and sister? Some other family relation? Best friends? Non-best friends? Enemies? Classmates? Pen pals? Some other type of connection between them? Assume they're friends. Siblings/family and classmates would work too Or are they just two random children who tried to do the same thing? no Or was it the same thing? it was the same thing Did they succeed? Or fail? They didn't fail completely, but they didn't really succeed either
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2011 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

12th night relevant?
Wild guess: leap year relevant?
End of/opening of school?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they try to fly? Is Christmas relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

12th night relevant?
Wild guess: leap year relevant?
End of/opening of school?
no to all

Did they try to fly? Is Christmas relevant?
no to all
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

April Fools' Day relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there another holiday 11 days after the first? And they would have been more successful on the new holiday? Would they have been successful 10 days later? 12? On the 11th day, only the following year? (If the 11th day is a holiday occurring on a varying date from year to year, such as the "2nd Tuesday in October", answer both based on whether it could have occurred on that holiday and whether it could have occurred on the same day, regardless of whether it would have been a holiday)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

April Fools' Day relevant? no

Was there another holiday 11 days after the first?yes And they would have been more successful on the new holiday? yes Would they have been successful 10 days later? 12? probably to both, but that might be misleading On the 11th day, only the following year? (If the 11th day is a holiday occurring on a varying date from year to year, such as the "2nd Tuesday in October", answer both based on whether it could have occurred on that holiday and whether it could have occurred on the same day, regardless of whether it would have been a holiday) the holiday is on the same date every year, and yes, they would have been successful on the 11th day a year later
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The only 11-day-apart holidays I can think of are Lincoln's and Washington's birthdays. Is that them?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The only 11-day-apart holidays I can think of are Lincoln's and Washington's birthdays. Is that them? no

There's a standard question that hasn't been asked so far, but it might be helpful.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is their nationality relevant? Is some historical event relevant? e.g. 9/11.
Or is it more trivial e.g. the time change (Spring forward, Fall back)?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is their nationality relevant? yes - they're from Germany, Austria, Belgium or the Netherlands Is some historical event relevant? e.g. 9/11. one of the relevant holidays is the Feast of XY, XY being a historical figure
Or is it more trivial e.g. the time change (Spring forward, Fall back)? no
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been successful on any day other than the original day (or the holiday's recurrence in following years)? Are both holidays only celebrated in those four countries? Or are those just the only four countries where both are celebrated? Or, are they (or one of them) celebrated elsewhere, just on a different day? If one of those applies to one or more of their celebrations in other countries, is it celebrated in America on the same day? On a different day?

Are either a religious Holiday? Both? Is XY a religious figure? If so, from [LTPF list of religions]?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been successful on any day other than the original day (or the holiday's recurrence in following years)? only on the day itself +/- 2 days Are both holidays only celebrated in those four countries? no Or are those just the only four countries where both are celebrated? yope, explore Or, are they (or one of them) celebrated elsewhere, just on a different day? no If one of those applies to one or more of their celebrations in other countries, is it celebrated in America on the same day? On a different day? the first one is celebrated in America on the same day, the second one is (as far as I know) not celebrated in America

Are either a religious Holiday? Both? the first one originated as a religious holiday, but I wouldn't call it religious today, and the seonc one is a religious holiday Is XY a religious figure? If so, from [LTPF list of religions]? yes, Christianity
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the first one Valentine's Day by any chance? Or St. Patrick's Day? Those are the only two holidays I can think of that started as religious but now aren't. But I think St. Patrick's Day's secular observance isn't a global phenomenon.

To explore the yope... Are those four countries the only ones where Holiday B is celebrated on the day it is? And also, you say the day itself +/- two days? So does the celebration of the holiday last multiple days? 5 days, to be exact?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the first one Valentine's Day by any chance? Or St. Patrick's Day? Those are the only two holidays I can think of that started as religious but now aren't. But I think St. Patrick's Day's secular observance isn't a global phenomenon. no to both

To explore the yope... Are those four countries the only ones where Holiday B is celebrated on the day it is? no And also, you say the day itself +/- two days? So does the celebration of the holiday last multiple days? 5 days, to be exact? noish, but I'll give you a
HINT: The holiday is celebrated in multiple countries, but only in those four there is a special tradition. This tradition is relevant here, and usually, this tradition is not limited to the day itself out of "practical" reasons (which I can't explain now, but will in the $poiler).
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is XY Jesus? A saint? A prophet?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is XY Jesus? A saint? this A prophet?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the first holiday Halloween?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the first holiday Halloween? it is indeed!
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 6:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The activity- does it involve getting treats?
Doriana (Doriana)
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The activity- does it involve getting treats? yes!
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the second holiday the Feast of Saint Martin?
(but this is 12 days after halloween?)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the second holiday the Feast of Saint Martin? yes
(but this is 12 days after halloween?) depends on whether you include Halloween or not. I counted Nov 1 as the 1st day.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you get treats on the Feast of St. Martin? Are people required to hand them out?

Would Katie and Leon have received more treats on the Feast day than on Halloween? (Oh, wait, it's a feast...so they'd obviously have lots of treats, right?)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you get treats on the Feast of St. Martin? yes Are people required to hand them out? yes

Would Katie and Leon have received more treats on the Feast day than on Halloween? yes (Oh, wait, it's a feast...so they'd obviously have lots of treats, right? not obviously, but yes, they could have had lots of treats.)

Now - why would they have got more treats on St Martin's Day?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because not everyone hands out treats on Halloween? Did they live in an area where few people handed out treats (like on an especially busy street)?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because not everyone hands out treats on Halloween? yes Did they live in an area where few people handed out treats (like on an especially busy street)? yes, but not because it's a busy street. There's another reason why only few people in their neighbourhood hand out treats on Halloween
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because they can't afford treats?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the people on this street have some objection to the concept of Halloween?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because it used to be a Pagan holiday?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because they can't afford treats? no

Do the people on this street have some objection to the concept of Halloween? yes

Because it used to be a Pagan holiday? no

Googlepedia is allowed and might be useful.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they think Halloween is satanic? That kids should be up and out that late?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they think Halloween is satanic? That kids should be up and out that late? no to both
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any special St Martin tradition relevant?
Relevant that St Martin is generally associated with sharing and giving?
Do the people think that kids who are out on the streets on Halloween are collection treats for themselves? while kids out on St Martin's evening might be collecting money for charity? and thus, deserve some treats?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any special St Martin tradition relevant? apart from collecting/handing out treats, no
Relevant that St Martin is generally associated with sharing and giving? no or noish
Do the people think that kids who are out on the streets on Halloween are collection treats for themselves? while kids out on St Martin's evening might be collecting money for charity? and thus, deserve some treats? no

HINT: Most people on their street are old.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Older traditions relevant? Did Halloween take over some tradition that was on St. Martin before? and the old people objected to that?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the people on their street go to bed early?
If there were no St. Martin traditions, would they still object to Halloween?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the people object Halloween in general? because of its catholic origin? because of its Irish (or foreign, at any rate) origin?
Do they think it is inappropriate to celebrate on the evening before All Saints' Day? when people usually commemorate the deceased?
Do they remember St Martin traditions from their own childhood? that they once were collecting treats on St Martin themselves?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have those people simply not heard of Halloween? after all, it's never really been celebrated in Europe, even in Ireland, and it's only been since kids over here saw Trick or Treating on TV that they decided to get in on the act! My Mum would be flummoxed of kids came to her house, whereas I'm always stocked up with goodies - but I do decorate the house so that people will know it's OK to come to mine - most people in my neighbourhood just don't bother
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Older traditions relevant? yes Did Halloween take over some tradition that was on St. Martin before? yes and the old people objected to that? yes

Do the people on their street go to bed early? irrel
If there were no St. Martin traditions, would they still object to Halloween? maybe

Do the people object Halloween in general? yope because of its catholic origin? no because of its Irish (or foreign, at any rate) origin? no
Do they think it is inappropriate to celebrate on the evening before All Saints' Day? when people usually commemorate the deceased? possibly
Do they remember St Martin traditions from their own childhood? probably that they once were collecting treats on St Martin themselves? probably

Have those people simply not heard of Halloween? possibly

Great work, I think it's time for the

********SPOILER********
In Germany (and according to wikipedia in Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands) there's a very nice tradition on St Martin's Day (Nov 11): Children go through the streets with paper lanterns and sing songs in return for treats.

During the last few years, Halloween and trick-or-treating have become extremely popular in Germany, but especially older people object to this development for various reasons (all of which you mentioned in the last few posts).

Our heroes Leon and Katie live in a neighbourhood with lots of older people who don't open the door for trick-or-treaters, so 11 days later, they would have got more candy.


Thanks for playing! (:
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You were right about the Feast of St. Martin not being celebrated in America -- I'd never heard of it before this puzzle. November 11 is our Veteran's Day.

Nice puzzle, and poor Leon and Katie...
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 6:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I remembered I wanted to explain why they would have been successful on the day itself +/- 2 days.
Most daycares and elementary schools have a small parade with St Martin himself riding on a horse, paper lanterns, torches and a bonfire. Afterwards, the children go from door to door in their neighbourhood. But out of practical and logistic reasons, having all the parades on St Martin's Day itself would be too much work, so they usually have them on the days before and after the Feast too.

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