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Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 158
Registered: 8-2011
Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From a story I heard a long time ago:

When they thought he was guilty, they beat him. When they found he was innocent, they killed him.
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guilty of a crime? Innocent of a crime? The same crime?

Did this happen in the past 50 years?

Were "they" part of the government? Some secret service?
Did they kill him for his own protection? Or the protection of others?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 159
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Guilty of a crime? Innocent of a crime? The same crime? DOYD of "crime". "They" likely thought of him as a criminal. The "guilty" and "innocent" bits refer to the same action.

Did this happen in the past 50 years? Possibly-not really relevant

Were "they" part of the government? yes Some secret service? no
Did they kill him for his own protection? no Or the protection of others? yes or yes-ish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He = H? A? M? Did they kill him in the same way they beat him?
Was he innocent of that crime, but guilty of another?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He = H? A? M? Yes Did they kill him in the same way they beat him? I doubt it. I don't think it's relevant, though.
Was he innocent of that crime, but guilty of another? no
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it was not a 'crime' in the sense of a statute? Was his guilt/innocence established through an official state court or military tribunal?
Or was the crime more like an offense of some local mores, like violating an oath in a gang, or dating a girl from a family you have vendetta with?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 165
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it was not a 'crime' in the sense of a statute? Yope- I am sorry, but this is difficult to answer. Was his guilt/innocence established through an official state court or military tribunal? Possibly
Or was the crime more like an offense of some local mores, like violating an oath in a gang, or dating a girl from a family you have vendetta with? Not these things
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the result of his beating make him unable to serve in some role? Was it the beating that occasioned the killing (upon recognition of his innocence) -- or was it the innocence alone?

Is it important to delve into some detail of the law in place at the time or with these people? (To make an absurd example, "People found innocent of X shall die.")

Was his death intentional? Was it considered an 'execution'? A 'punishment'? A warning to others?

The crime of which he was accused -- was it in connection with family? business? government? academia? journalism?

Was it something like: They beat him when they thought he was a liar, but when they found he told the truth (and thus knew the truth) he had to die?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 166
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the result of his beating make him unable to serve in some role? The answer is a very misleading "yes-ish" or "yope". Was it the beating that occasioned the killing (upon recognition of his innocence) This -- or was it the innocence alone? No

Is it important to delve into some detail of the law in place at the time or with these people? (To make an absurd example, "People found innocent of X shall die.") It's nothing like this

Was his death intentional? Yes Was it considered an 'execution'? This is closest A 'punishment'? A warning to others? But I would use another word

The crime of which he was accused -- was it in connection with family? business? government? Thisish academia? journalism?

Was it something like: They beat him when they thought he was a liar, but when they found he told the truth (and thus knew the truth) he had to die? His innocence alone would not have given them reason to kill him.
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 3:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it considered a sacrifice? Euthanasia? A mercy-death?

Was his death directly inflicted, or was he put into harms way?

Was he a spy? A soldier?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 167
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it considered a sacrifice? Euthanasia? A mercy-death? No to all

Was his death directly inflicted, this or was he put into harms way?

Was he a spy? A soldier? No to both, but...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 5:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a martyr?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a martyr? no
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a disease relevant?
Did he work in the government? the army?
Was this during any wars?
Was the crime: treason? tax evasion?
Was he part of a group of people?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a disease relevant? no
Did he work in the government? no the army? No, but...
Was this during any wars? yes
Was the crime: treason? close, but remember, crime is not exactly the right word, though some would see it this way tax evasion? no
Was he part of a group of people? Please be more specific
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are both "they"s the same?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he in another aspect of the military? navy? air force? or was he a policeman?

was his crime desertion? betraying his comrades?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Are both "they"s the same? yes

Shez

was he in another aspect of the military? navy? air force? or was he a policeman? no to all

was his crime desertion? betraying his comrades? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he considered a traitor? Is espionage relevant?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where and when this happened (e.g., France during WWII)?

Was he a civilian, but had some duties/relationship/employment with some military?

Was he a resistance fighter? A rebel? A war profiteer?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 4:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Was he considered a traitor? no Is espionage relevant? yes

Jvp

Is it relevant where and when this happened (e.g., France during WWII)? I don't think so

Was he a civilian, but had some duties/relationship/employment with some military? yope or "please restate"

Was he a resistance fighter? A rebel? A war profiteer? none of these
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2011 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when he was thought guilty of spying they beat him?

when they found he was innocent of spying they killed him?

is it because the thing they thought he had done is OK for a spy to do but not for an ordinary civilian?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when he was thought guilty of spying they beat him? Yes, spying or otherwise working for an enemy

when they found he was innocent of spying they killed him? Yes again

is it because the thing they thought he had done is OK for a spy to do but not for an ordinary civilian? No, that's not it
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 4:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill him solely because of his innocence? Because of the false accusation?
Through the accusation, did they reveal his identity? Was he undercover/covert/something like that?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 4:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill him solely because of his innocence? no Because of the false accusation? Directly? no. Indirectly? yes-ish
Through the accusation, did they reveal his identity? He identity was established after the accusation but not necessarily because of it. Was he undercover/covert/something like that? no and relevant
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they kill him because he should have done the thing?

was he a double agent?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they kill him because he should have done the thing? no

was he a double agent? no
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i iz confuseded kitteh...we can haz recat?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Most certainly, kaylee kitteh!

RECAP

Puzzle statement: When they thought he was guilty, they beat him. When they found he was innocent, they killed him.

"They" are part of the government.

The man (HAM) is not a policeman, nor is he associated with the military. He is not a rebel, war profiteer, or resistance fighter. He is not a double agent. His identity was revealed after the beating but not necessarily because of it.

We have discovered that the man was accused working with an enemy; to clarify, they accused him of being a spy, but had he been accused of working with the enemy in any other capacity, the rest of the story would be the same. Despite the accusations, he was not guilty of ANY crime.

This occurred during a war. Other than that, time and location are irrelevant.

"They" killed him intentionally, and his death was directly inflicted. The reason that they killed him relates to protecting others. It was not a "sacrifice" or "mercy death". They killed him because of the beating after recognizing his innocence, not because of the innocence alone. This is a little misleading but still true: the beating may have made it impossible to serve in some role.

This is my first recap. Did I miss anything or make any obvious mistakes?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

doez it matter what hiz name iz?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

doez it matter what hiz name iz? Not at all. Would you like to pick one?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Monday, September 19, 2011 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he ask to be killed? Or in some other way invite the killing? (Taunt, dare, anger...)

Had he been beaten very publicly?

And now the government had to save face (e.g., not admit they made a mistake)?

Would an unbiased observer say he was unjustly killed? Was he executed? To set an example?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

how about Magellan? (Magellanic penguinz iz favrit...even tho he iz nawt penguin...=) )
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp

Did he ask to be killed? Or in some other way invite the killing? (Taunt, dare, anger...) No to both

Had he been beaten very publicly? No

And now the government had to save face (e.g., not admit they made a mistake)? Saving face played a role, but it was by far not the main reason they chose to kill him.

Would an unbiased observer say he was unjustly killed? Probably. Was he executed? It was likely an execution-style killing, but it was not an execution in the classic sense. To set an example? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin

how about Magellan? (Magellanic penguinz iz favrit...even tho he iz nawt penguin...=) ) Magellan it is!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he killed so he wouldn't complete his iconic circumnavigation?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he killed so he wouldn't complete his iconic circumnavigation? Pardon me for the confusion. We are not talking about Ferdinand Magellan (or any other real-life Magellan). The man's real name is unknown and irrelevant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 2:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops.

Did the government want him to be guilty of the infraction? And because he wasn't, he was killed?

Is the specific manner of execution relevant?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the government want him to be guilty of the infraction? Hard to say. It would have had benefits to the government as well as disadvantages, but... And because he wasn't, he was killed? ...no, this isn't it

Is the specific manner of execution relevant? No. Assume he was shot.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a member of the government?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 3:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a member of the government? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 3:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the initial beating have killed him had he not been intentionally killed?
Did the government make it known that they had killed him? Did they want to frame someone else for the killing?
Did they want it thought that the man was guilty? Did they not want to admit that they'd erred in accusing him?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the initial beating have killed him had he not been intentionally killed? no
Did the government make it known that they had killed him? no Did they want to frame someone else for the killing? Irrelevant
Did they want it thought that the man was guilty? Irrelevant Did they not want to admit that they'd erred in accusing him? I'm sure they didn't want to admit that, but that factor alone was not why he was killed.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant the time period between:

Being found guilty and the beating?
The beating and being found innocent?
Being found innocent and getting killed?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant the time period between:

Being found guilty and the beating? FA- he was not found guilty. He was only suspected. But nothing relevant occurred during this time.
The beating and being found innocent? Nothing relevant occurred between the beating and the time he was found innocent.
Being found innocent and getting killed? Something relevant occurred here
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he released at any point?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he released at any point? no
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in fact the same government throughout? (e.g., a change of regime?)

Did a war start or end, changing the ways the laws might have been applied?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it in fact the same government throughout? yes (e.g., a change of regime?) no

Did a war start or end, changing the ways the laws might have been applied? nothing like this

Good ideas, though.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he killed to hide the fact that he had been beaten up?

to hide the fact that they thought he was a spy?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he killed to hide the fact that he had been beaten up? noish

to hide the fact that they thought he was a spy? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he imprisoned during the events of this puzzle?

Could you please recap?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he imprisoned during the events of this puzzle? He was imprisoned before he was beaten.

Could you please recap? coming soon
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually, the imprisonment itself is irrelevant. The beating is still relevant.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Updated RECAP
Puzzle statement: When they thought he was guilty, they beat him. When they found he was innocent, they killed him.

"They" are part of the government.

"Magellan" (HAM) is not a policeman, nor is he associated with the military or government. He is not a rebel, war profiteer, or resistance fighter. He is not a double agent. His identity was revealed after the beating but not necessarily because of it.

We have discovered that the man was accused working with an enemy; to clarify, they accused him of being a spy, but had he been accused of working with the enemy in any other capacity, the rest of the story would be the same. Despite the accusations, he was not guilty of ANY crime. Had he been guilty it may have had some benefit for the government but he was not killed simply because he was unable to provide that benefit.

He was not beaten publicly. The beating alone would not have killed him. Something relevant occurred between the time he was found innocent and the time he was killed. He was never released.

This occurred during a war. The same government was in place throughout the puzzle. No relevant laws were changed. Other than that, time and location are irrelevant.

"They" killed him intentionally, and his death was directly inflicted; we can assume he was shot execution-style, but this was not an execution. He did not ask for or otherwise invite the killing. The government did not make the killing known to the public. The reason that they killed him relates to protecting others. It was not a "sacrifice" or "mercy death". This was not done to set an example. "Saving face" may have played a role but was not the primary reason. They killed him because of the beating after recognizing his innocence, not because of the innocence alone. This is a little misleading but still true: the beating may have made it impossible to serve in some role.

Let me know if I've missed anything.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He was not beaten publicly...but did the public know about his beating? Did the beating disfigure him? Leave scars or other lasting marks?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He was not beaten publicly...but did the public know about his beating? NO Did the beating disfigure him? no or irrelevant Leave scars or other lasting marks? no or irrelevant
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 4:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" part of the governing body of a nation in: North America? South America? Africa? Europe? Asia? Australia/Oceania? Was "Magellan" a native of "their" country or another one? If different, the same list of continents applies. (I'm not forcing you to give us the countries, but that'd be nice =P)

Was the relevant war WWI? WWII? Earlier than either? Later? In between?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" part of the governing body of a nation in: North America? South America? Africa? Europe? Asia? Australia/Oceania? Irrelevant but... Was "Magellan" a native of "their" country or another one? ...probably not ;) If different, the same list of continents applies. (I'm not forcing you to give us the countries, but that'd be nice =P) Honestly, I'm not sure where it happened, or even if it happened. It's just a story someone told me some time ago.

Was the relevant war WWI? WWII? Earlier than either? Later? In between? Again, irrelevant. It could have been any war at any time. It could have happened yesterday just as easily as it could have happened a thousand years ago.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I may have been misleading. To clarify (and give a teensy little hint), the only relevant "event" that occurred between Magellan's being found innocent and his death was a conversation. Also, "they" are an army or or some similar military unit.

Anyone who was misled before has my sincere apologies.
Alicefrosting (Alicefrosting)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the conversation about money? The war? His identity? His knowledge about a specific topic? (i.e. weaponry, technology, the enemy)

Could the conversation have changed the out-come of his life? (i.e. would he still be alive?)

Are "they" crooked? (i.e. abusing their government power)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

welcome Alicefrosting!

Is "Magellan" military? Is he a penguin? =D
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 2:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alicefrosting

Nice to meet you!

Was the conversation about money? The war? His identity? His knowledge about a specific topic? (i.e. weaponry, technology, the enemy) The conversation involved his identity, although that was not the extent of the conversation. It also mentioned the war, but still, there is more to be discovered. No to the rest.

Could the conversation have changed the out-come of his life? (i.e. would he still be alive?) Possibly

Are "they" crooked? (i.e. abusing their government power) I would say that they were morally wrong, but there are others who would disagree.

Kayleetonkslupin

Is "Magellan" military? No Is he a penguin? =D The animal? Yes. Actually, no. :P
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You have all the necessary information, I think. You just need to put together why they would kill a man they know to be innocent.
Alicefrosting (Alicefrosting)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They didn't want "Magellan" to speak of what happened?

If so, did they think "Magellan" was leaking information to the enemy? Therefore beating him, but discovered he was innocent, but killed him to "save face?"
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 4:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I was just checking. Can't blame a kitteh for making sure =D
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alicefrosting

They didn't want "Magellan" to speak of what happened? Yes, this is very true!

If so, did they think "Magellan" was leaking information to the enemy? They might have. Therefore beating him, yes but discovered he was innocent, yes but killed him to "save face?" No, embarrassment was the least of their worries.

Kayleetonkslupin

Well, I was just checking. Can't blame a kitteh for making sure =D It would have made for a more interesting puzzle, for certain!
Alicefrosting (Alicefrosting)
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Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 4:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP with a few tidbits to fill in the unimportant missing pieces

Magellan is captured by a military unit and accused of working for their enemy, perhaps even spying for them. He swears he is innocent. They attempt to beat the truth out of him in hopes that, in the end, he will give them valuable information about their enemy. As it turns out, he IS innocent. A conversation takes place that involves the revelation of his true identity (the only really relevant aspect of such is that he is innocent of their charges) and something else. Then they kill him- on purpose, without public knowledge. They may have been embarrassed, but that was not their primary reason for killing him. It has something to do with protecting people. Even so, it wouldn't necessarily make the killing justified in the eyes of others.

And Magellan is not a penguin.

Did I miss anything?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill him because of his true identity? Because of the "something else" revealed?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, October 17, 2011 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill him because of his true identity? They would not have killed him if he had been a spy. At least, not immediately. As to the specific nature of his identity (widowed merchant versus farmer with six kids), it's irrelevant. Because of the "something else" revealed? Everything that was revealed has already been revealed. The "something else" was not a new revelation.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is that the third option? I mean, either he's a spy, or he's innocent, or option 3?

so he's not innocent and because he's not a spy it's Ok just to kill him?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is that the third option? I mean, either he's a spy, or he's innocent, or option 3?

so he's not innocent and because he's not a spy it's Ok just to kill him? Sorry for the confusion. My title is more of a sarcastic remark. He's either guilty (in which case he is beaten) or innocent (in which case he is killed). So no third option for this poor fellow.

I think some puzzlers may be over-thinking the solution. You were on the right track when talking about "saving face" but embarrassment is not their concern.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been exposed? For a crime? Or something else?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, October 20, 2011 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been exposed? Yes For a crime? Some might see it that way Or something else? For beating an innocent man- the beating was pretty severe.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill I'm to claim that he was guilty?
Would he have been killed if they hadn't beat him?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, October 21, 2011 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill I'm to claim that he was guilty? Possibly
Would he have been killed if they hadn't beat him? NO, if they had treated him well, they would not have killed him- good question
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, what got autocorrected to "I'm" in my last post???

Did they kill him so he couldn't tell others what had happened?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they kill him so he couldn't tell others what had happened? YES. Because if anyone found out...
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You have guessed the majority of the story. It may be close enough for a spoyle, but I think I'm going to let you put together the final pieces.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If anyone found out...the military people would have been discharged? Arrested? Killed? Shamefaced?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 22, 2011 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If anyone found out...the military people would have been discharged? no Arrested? no Killed? But possibly this Shamefaced? Likely, but in light of the previous answer, this probably wasn't a major concern.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been beaten? Made to suffer the same penalty as the guy they beat?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they have been beaten? Made to suffer the same penalty as the guy they beat? Possibly to both. I think it's time to put this one to rest.

**********SPOILER**********
Magellan is an ordinary citizen. A war is waging in his home country. One day when he is going about his business, he is captured by a band of soldiers. They think he works for their enemy, perhaps even as a spy. They beat and torture him in an attempt to get information about their enemy. Magellan maintains his claim of innocence. They continue to beat him mercilessly while asking about their enemy. Suddenly, someone bursts in and orders them to stop. Evidence has been found of his innocence! The soldiers leave him locked away, but still he can hear their conversation. One man asks the leader of the unit what they should do. Magellan's heart sinks at the response- "Kill him. If he wasn't our enemy before, he most certainly is now, as is anyone that hears his story. Our enemy's numbers have increased greatly because of our error. We must kill him."
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 3:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoa, chilling. But makes for a great puzzle.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 3:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you so much! It was a little tough for me. Everyone asked such great and challenging questions!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

poor Magellan!!!!!! =( *turns him into a penguin so he can hide and not be killed* There.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

**********SPOILER: The Alternate Ending**********

Magellan's heart sinks at the response- "Kill him. If he wasn't our enemy before, he most certainly is now." Just then, the locked door opens. A lovely Kaylee kitteh steps inside and whispers a few words of encouragement before turning and leaving. Magellan sees the world changing and realizes that he is changing, too- changing into a penguin! The soldiers return, resolved to obey the grim order. Imagine their surprise! Magellan is gone, but there is a penguin! A cute little penguin! Very cute, that is, until it jumps at one of the men and latches onto his nose! The man screams and swings around, sending Peng-gellan flying toward the outside of the base. He runs as far away as his little penguin limbs can carry him. He becomes tired and has to stop for a moment to catch his breath. When he looks up, there is Kaylee kitteh! And they are friends forever. The end. =)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay, a happy ending!!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 23, 2011 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay!!!!!!!!! And Kaylee kitteh takes Magellan away and they are friends forever and ever and EVER and Kaylee kitteh givz him fishburgurz for forever. =)

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