| Author | Message | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2006 |
To fullfill their expectations, Martin would have to break something and he would also have to cause them an annoying problem Hello LP addicts. I kindly invite you to check my new blog: www.lateralminds.blogspot.com - It features some of my puzzles and most of all a brand new game, based on lateral puzzles, that I invented and it is free to try for everybody. Have fun! | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1007 Registered: 2-2011 |
would he have to break a promise? a sacred bond? a confidence? a habit of a lifetime? is this a true story? FYOI? FSEI? are "they" known to Martin? relations? friends? customers? students? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2006 |
would he have to break a promise? a sacred bond? a confidence? a habit of a lifetime? no to all is this a true story? no, but it could be FYOI? FSEI? please explain acronyms are "they" known to Martin? yesish relations? no friends? no customers? no students? no | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1008 Registered: 2-2011 |
would he have to break a physical thing? an object? sorry - FYOI = from your own imagination FSEI = from someone else's imagination present day? is Martin's ocupation relevant? are "they" H/A/M? his patients? are they yeshishly known to him through his work? his location? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2006 |
would he have to break a physical thing? an object? oh yes! sorry - FYOI = from your own imagination it is from my imagination, but it's quite a realistic puzzle FSEI = from someone else's imagination present day? yes is Martin's ocupation relevant? no are "they" H/A/M? a group of people his patients? no are they yeshishly known to him through his work? no his location? their location, nice guess | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1010 Registered: 2-2011 |
are they his neighbours? did he have to break into a house? | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 1418 Registered: 8-2001 |
Would having their expectation filled make them happy? Are they aware the problem will be caused? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2006 |
are they his neighbours? no did he have to break into a house? no Would having their expectation filled make them happy? no Are they aware the problem will be caused? yes | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1780 Registered: 6-2008 |
Is the "something" that would have to be broken one of "theirs"? Collectively "theirs"? his? Does anyone actually own the thing that would need to be broken? Fulfilling their expectations would not make them happy--so could one say that they expect these "expectations" to come true, but dread that fact? or do they not particularly care either way? Would he have hoped to fulfill their expectations? (but, as per their puzzle statement, such would be difficult?) | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1013 Registered: 2-2011 |
did he have to break a window? did he break into a car? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the "something" that would have to be broken one of "theirs"? if you mean one of the persons in the group, then NO Collectively "theirs"? his? Does anyone actually own the thing that would need to be broken? yes, they do Fulfilling their expectations would not make them happy--so could one say that they expect these "expectations" to come true, but dread that fact? no or do they not particularly care either way? good question! deserves a hint: let's say they are almost sure the expectations are not going to be fulfilled Would he have hoped to fulfill their expectations? no... slight false assumption (but, as per their puzzle statement, such would be difficult?) | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1018 Registered: 2-2011 |
was the annoying problem a noise? like a burglar alarm? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2006 |
was the annoying problem a noise? like a burglar alarm? no to both | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1784 Registered: 6-2008 |
So clarification--the thing that would have to be broken IS theirs (the group with the expectation) collectively, but does not belong to any one of them individually? It seems your answer at the bottom of that first series of questions says so, but you didn't answer above. Then also, they do not expect the expectations to come true? Would it then be more accurate to call them "requests" or "demands"? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2006 |
So clarification--the thing that would have to be broken IS theirs (the group with the expectation) collectively, but does not belong to any one of them individually? yes, you understood perfectly It seems your answer at the bottom of that first series of questions says so, but you didn't answer above. must have missed the question! anyways you summarized correctly Then also, they do not expect the expectations to come true? yes they don't Would it then be more accurate to call them "requests" or "demands"? no, it is perfectly right to call them "expectations"... | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1588 Registered: 9-2009 |
Just to clarify: Martin is a H/A/M, right? Was Martin aware that breaking that thing will "fulfill" their expectations? That will "annoy" them? Is the object bigger than an egg? a bread box? a TV set? a refrigerator? a car? a house? the Saturn V rocket? Relevant what material(s) the object is made of? The size of the group: less than: 10? 100? 1000? 10.000? 100.000? One million? More than a million? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 84 Registered: 7-2006 |
Just to clarify: Martin is a H/A/M, right? yes Was Martin aware that breaking that thing will "fulfill" their expectations? no That will "annoy" them? he knows nothing about their expectations in general Is the object bigger than an egg? a bread box? a TV set? a refrigerator? a car? a house? the Saturn V rocket? in fact, this is completely irrelevant Relevant what material(s) the object is made of? so is this. not relevant The size of the group: less than: 10? 100? 1000? 10.000? 100.000? One million? More than a million? ok, tough answer. the group with expectations? say less than 10. I will give away something here. they are part of a wider group. say around 10K | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1591 Registered: 9-2009 |
Ok... Is the larger group the inhabitants of a town? Members of a nation-wide club? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the larger group the inhabitants of a town? no Members of a nation-wide club? no | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1595 Registered: 9-2009 |
The size of the object and the materials it is made of are not relevant -- does that mean than any object will do, provided that it belongs to the group and Martin breaks it? The object does belong only to the smaller group? The larger one? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2006 |
The size of the object and the materials it is made of are not relevant -- does that mean than any object will do, provided that it belongs to the group and Martin breaks it? you nailed it! The object does belong only to the smaller group? The larger one? this | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1096 Registered: 2-2011 |
if a large group of people own an object, does that mean it's public property? part of a public building? street furniture? a bridge? a road? a status? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 90 Registered: 7-2006 |
if a large group of people own an object, does that mean it's public property? well no, it could be the other way around. ever heard about shares? part of a public building? street furniture? a bridge? a road? a status? no to all | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1106 Registered: 2-2011 |
sorry - just a thought | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2006 |
time for a recap? | ||
| Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
New member Username: Fionakelleghan Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2011 |
Er... Martin is going to break their daughter's hymen and, next, leave the baby to the parents to rear, because he and girlfriend are too young or too poor? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 92 Registered: 7-2006 |
Er... Martin is going to break their daughter's hymen and, next, leave the baby to the parents to rear, because he and girlfriend are too young or too poor? no. we ascertained that "they" is a small group within a very large group | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1615 Registered: 9-2009 |
Do the members possess in common more than one object? If yes, and Martin breaks anyone of them, the same result will happen? Is sport involved? Politics? The members of the smaller group share: -- same profession? -- same age? -- same birthplace? -- same religion? -- same nationality? Same questions for the larger group please. | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2006 |
Do the members possess in common more than one object? yes, altough members is not a good word. If yes, and Martin breaks anyone of them, the same result will happen? yes, good question. It's not about the object that is going to be broken, more about the breaking itself Is sport involved? Politics? no to both The members of the smaller group share: -- same profession? yes, good one! -- same age? -- same birthplace? -- same religion? -- same nationality? not relevant all the rest Same questions for the larger group please. not relavant to all, I might spoil this bit about the group of people... puzzle is lasting forever and it seems it's getting nowhere... | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1180 Registered: 2-2011 |
is the profession medecine? law enforcement? education? IT? the arts? manufacture? retail? catering? finance? sport? | ||
| Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
New member Username: Fionakelleghan Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2011 |
Klang writes, "It's not about the object that is going to be broken, more about the breaking itself." Okay, are we talking about food? Is Martin a food server at, like, a Denny's restaurant, and the customer asked for eggs sunny-side up, but the cook broke the yolks? (Hey, my next question was going to be about Klingons and Romulans, so be grateful that I won't make you folks cringe THAT much.) | ||
| Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
New member Username: Fionakelleghan Post Number: 76 Registered: 7-2011 |
Klang writes, "It's not about the object that is going to be broken, more about the breaking itself." Okay, are we talking about food? Is Martin a food server at, like, a Denny's restaurant, and the customer asked for eggs sunny-side up, but the cook broke the yolks? (Hey, my next question was going to be about Klingons and Romulans, so be grateful that I won't make you folks cringe THAT much.) | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2006 |
s the profession medecine? law enforcement? education? IT? the arts? manufacture? retail? catering? finance? sport? no to all, closest being maybe be IT Klang writes, "It's not about the object that is going to be broken, more about the breaking itself." Okay, are we talking about food? Is Martin a food server at, like, a Denny's restaurant, and the customer asked for eggs sunny-side up, but the cook broke the yolks? no, food is not involved | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1191 Registered: 2-2011 |
are computers involved at all? their profession - technical? engineers? | ||
| Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
New member Username: Fionakelleghan Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2011 |
Is the annoying problem a matter of law? of health? of tradition? (I'm kind of stepping on Shez's toes with that last one.) of equipment? Are the breaking and the problem a matter of finance? Is the object that Martin breaks expensive? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 95 Registered: 7-2006 |
are computers involved at all? mmm yes their profession - technical? yes engineers? no but not so far... men of science, yes Is the annoying problem a matter of law? of health? of tradition? (I'm kind of stepping on Shez's toes with that last one.) of equipment? this is the only yesish... al the rest is a "no" Are the breaking and the problem a matter of finance? the breaking is not, but the problem it is, yes Is the object that Martin breaks expensive? it is not relevant what he breaks and how expensive that is, the only relevant thing is the breaking itself | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1264 Registered: 2-2011 |
are they a group of students? scientists in general? physicists? mathematicians? chemists? was the thing broken during an experiment? did Martin breaking something prove something? was a bet involved? did the group of people invest in something? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 96 Registered: 7-2006 |
are they a group of students? scientists in general? physicists? mathematicians? that's the closest. they are a bunch of data analysts chemists? was the thing broken during an experiment? no, you are eventually assuming something has been broken, which is false did Martin breaking something prove something? yesish... if he did break something, an expectation would be fulfilled... in a very lateral way, of course was a bet involved? no did the group of people invest in something? the smaller group is just a team of analysts. the bigger group... well it's a corporation they work for, so yes, money have been invested at some point! apologies for the hints, but the puzzle's been going on for a long time now... I think it's time to finish it | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1300 Registered: 2-2011 |
does the thing that Martin would have to break belong to the company they work for? is it computer equipment? is the annoying problem simply that it would have to be replaced? or that they would have to manage without it in some way? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2006 |
does the thing that Martin would have to break belong to the company they work for? yes is it computer equipment? no. it is not relevant what it is... is the annoying problem simply that it would have to be replaced? no or that they would have to manage without it in some way? no | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1814 Registered: 6-2008 |
So is the "expectation" about the failure rate of equipment? about financial expenses of the company? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 98 Registered: 7-2006 |
So is the "expectation" about the failure rate of equipment? no about financial expenses of the company? no | ||
| Romcombo (Romcombo)
New member Username: Romcombo Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2011 |
Will he be breaking a financial agreement? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 99 Registered: 7-2006 |
Will he be breaking a financial agreement? no | ||
| Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
New member Username: Fionakelleghan Post Number: 230 Registered: 7-2011 |
Is there an expectation because Martin is new to the company group? It is a solid object, right? Not programming rule practices? Was everyone annoyed / or prepared to be annoyed? Was there anyone (such as trainer, co-worker, or boss) prepared to forgive him? Is this breakage something that happens often in the field of data analysis? Would it be so major a breakage that Martin and his breaking would appear in newspapers? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 100 Registered: 7-2006 |
Apologies for late answers... Is there an expectation because Martin is new to the company group? no, in fact Martin is not even part of the group... It is a solid object, right? yes Not programming rule practices? no Was everyone annoyed / or prepared to be annoyed? No, although possible, they know it is not going to happen Was there anyone (such as trainer, co-worker, or boss) prepared to forgive him? Is this breakage something that happens often in the field of data analysis? nothing is going to be broken for real! Would it be so major a breakage that Martin and his breaking would appear in newspapers? no | ||
| Avni_kacik (Avni_kacik)
New member Username: Avni_kacik Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2011 |
Is martin a customer of the company? Do the ones in the group expect something/anything they posses to be broken by someone or specifically martin? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 101 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is martin a customer of the company? yes! Do the ones in the group expect something/anything they posses to be broken by someone or specifically martin? tough to answer... they expect something very accurate that by actually happening would result in Martin breaking something belonging to the corporate they work for | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 4302 Registered: 9-2010 |
o hai & welcome to the forum Avni_kacik! I iz teh kaylee kitteh...or just Kaylee if you prefer =D I am quite silly =) but new people are always good. *is pondering Klang's puzzle, will have real questions later most likely, but wanted to say hi to teh new kitteh* | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14603 Registered: 4-2010 |
The broken thing: something technological? Does the annoying problem have to do with the breakage? Or is the broken thing nonphysical, like an agreement, contract, or promise? | ||
| Avni_kacik (Avni_kacik)
New member Username: Avni_kacik Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2011 |
the thing which will be broken make the company/boss happy? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 102 Registered: 7-2006 |
The broken thing: something technological? not relevant: just one of the things that the corporate sells Does the annoying problem have to do with the breakage? no Or is the broken thing nonphysical, like an agreement, contract, or promise? no, it would be a real object Martin has to break the thing which will be broken make the company/boss happy? not relevant... imagine the boss of IKEA knowing that 1 vase in 1 of his shops worldwide has been broken... would he be touched? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 103 Registered: 7-2006 |
small RECAP There's the XYZ corporate with stores everywhere on this planet. There's an IT department of XYZ where a group of data analysts works. There's Martin, a guy like you and me; nothing to do with XYZ, he doesn't work for them. Now: to fullfill their expectations (the IT guys) he would have to break one of the objects that XYZ sells, not relevant which one, and to cause them (XYZ in general) a small but annoying problem. this one has lasted too long... hope the recap helps | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4288 Registered: 9-2009 |
Could he break any of the things the company sells? Relevant how he would break it? where? when? why? Would he also have to buy it? If so: before breaking it? Afterwards? Does he know this is expected of him? Does he want to do it? will he gain anything from it? will the analysts gain anything from it? will XYZ? Do the analysts want XYZ to have the problem? Will the breakage cause the problem? Or will it be related to the problem? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 104 Registered: 7-2006 |
Could he break any of the things the company sells? yes Relevant how he would break it? yesish. he would have to break something with... PRECISION where? inside the store when? while shopping at XYZ why? well it is relevant. it's the point of this puzzle Would he also have to buy it? NICE ONE! YESSSS!!! If so: before breaking it? Afterwards? he would have to go at the till with the broken item Does he know this is expected of him? no, he's clueless Does he want to do it? no! will he gain anything from it? no will the analysts gain anything from it? they would see their expectations fulfilled? will XYZ? see the one above Do the analysts want XYZ to have the problem? no no, they do not "want"... Will the breakage cause the problem? see below Or will it be related to the problem? yes there is a mild connection | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1730 Registered: 2-2011 |
are the analysts interested in seeing whether a customer admits to breaking an item? whether they willingly pay for it? as opposed to walking away and pretending they had nothing to do with it? are they testing a new shopping trolley? shopping basket? bag? another kind of carrier? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2006 |
are the analysts interested in seeing whether a customer admits to breaking an item? whether they willingly pay for it? as opposed to walking away and pretending they had nothing to do with it? are they testing a new shopping trolley? shopping basket? bag? another kind of carrier? no to all of the above | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4310 Registered: 9-2009 |
Are the analysts expecting Martin specifically to break an item? Or are they expecting someone to do it, and Martin is one candidate? Are they conducting an experiment? Testing something? With precision: break a specific part? Break something in a specific way? Such as dropping it? Anti-theft devices relevant? Does XYZ have more than one store? Relevant? Would the annoying problem involve a: product recall? Change of pricing? change in the store(s)? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 106 Registered: 7-2006 |
Are the analysts expecting Martin specifically to break an item? no. but they expect something that if actually happening would involve Martin breaking an item Or are they expecting someone to do it, and Martin is one candidate? anyone would do Are they conducting an experiment? experiment is not the right word... for analysts Testing something? mmmm noish With precision: break a specific part? no, with precision, in a specific point of the item Break something in a specific way? read above Such as dropping it? no Anti-theft devices relevant? no Does XYZ have more than one store? Relevant? let's say yes, I expect XYZ to be a large corporate, so plenty of stores, but not so relevant in the end Would the annoying problem involve a: product recall? no Change of pricing? ah! you got it, but unwillingly! CHANGE, yes, PRICING no change in the store(s)? no. but change still holds! | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 107 Registered: 7-2006 |
sorry poor english: the right word wasn't "unwillingly", I meant "accidentally" | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4317 Registered: 9-2009 |
Would XYZ need to change: shelves? Placement of products? Advertising? Change the design of the product? Change to a different brand of product? Ts there a risk of injury? Product packaging relevant? Size of product relevant? Are they conducting an analysis? Relevant why the analysts are doing this? If so, has there been reports of breakage? Or complaints? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2006 |
Would XYZ need to change: shelves? Placement of products? Advertising? Change the design of the product? Change to a different brand of product? Ts there a risk of injury? Product packaging relevant? Size of product relevant? no to all of the above. you got "change" right just as a word... Are they conducting an analysis? yes they sure did analyze data Relevant why the analysts are doing this? aren't they paid for that? Let's say XYZ wants to know what their data could mean If so, has there been reports of breakage? Or complaints? no to these two | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1764 Registered: 2-2011 |
change the customers? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 109 Registered: 7-2006 |
change the customers? nope. funny though how both words make sense with respect to the solution! | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1778 Registered: 2-2011 |
they both make sense but not together? change the way that customers do something? change the way they do something for customers? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 110 Registered: 7-2006 |
they both make sense but not together? yes: both "customer" and "change" play a part in the solution, but not together change the way that customers do something? change the way they do something for customers? no to all | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4333 Registered: 9-2009 |
Would XYZ need to change something? Would the producer of the product broken need to change something? Would customers need to change something? Would this work for any tangible product sold in a store? Any product easily broken? any product that it's possible to break at all? would it work if XYZ only sold products unbreakable by humans? Such as balls for ball bearings? Will breaking the product involve: removing it from a shelf? Trying to unpack it? Trying to use it? trying to open it? Dropping it on the floor? If Martin breaks an object, will he do it: intentionally? Unintentionally? After he has decided to buy it? After he has removed it from the shelf? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1862 Registered: 6-2008 |
Would they give the customers change for something (i.e. a payment)? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2006 |
Would XYZ need to change something? yes, but find out what Would the producer of the product broken need to change something? no Would customers need to change something? no Would this work for any tangible product sold in a store? yes Any product easily broken? one random item any product that it's possible to break at all? would it work if XYZ only sold products unbreakable by humans? teoretically the puzzle would still hold, thought it would make less sense Such as balls for ball bearings? no Will breaking the product involve: removing it from a shelf? not relevant. just break it, very precisely Trying to unpack it? Trying to use it? trying to open it? Dropping it on the floor? If Martin breaks an object, will he do it: intentionally? yes Unintentionally? After he has decided to buy it? yes After he has removed it from the shelf? not relevant Would they give the customers change for something (i.e. a payment)? YES!!!! | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 112 Registered: 7-2006 |
Would XYZ need to change something? yes, but find out what Would the producer of the product broken need to change something? no Would customers need to change something? no Would this work for any tangible product sold in a store? yes Any product easily broken? one random item any product that it's possible to break at all? would it work if XYZ only sold products unbreakable by humans? teoretically the puzzle would still hold, though it would make less sense Such as balls for ball bearings? no Will breaking the product involve: removing it from a shelf? not relevant. just break it, very precisely Trying to unpack it? Trying to use it? trying to open it? Dropping it on the floor? If Martin breaks an object, will he do it: intentionally? yes Unintentionally? After he has decided to buy it? yes After he has removed it from the shelf? not relevant Would they give the customers change for something (i.e. a payment)? YES!!!! | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1809 Registered: 2-2011 |
is it something to do with XYZ's returns or refunds policy? XYZ's insurance? (on products broken in the store) is it relevant how the item gets broken? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 113 Registered: 7-2006 |
is it something to do with XYZ's returns or refunds policy? no XYZ's insurance? (on products broken in the store) no is it relevant how the item gets broken? no, the only relevant thing is precision. To fullfil their expectations Martin would have to break one (random) item but with extreme precision | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14764 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would he have to break it but be able to fix it? So he could buy it at a discount (claiming damaged goods) and repair it later? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14765 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would he have to break it but be able to fix it? So he could buy it at a discount (claiming damaged goods) and repair it later? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 114 Registered: 7-2006 |
Would he have to break it but be able to fix it? no So he could buy it at a discount (claiming damaged goods) and repair it later? no, but well thought | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1843 Registered: 2-2011 |
is it to do with breaking the seal on something? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4362 Registered: 9-2009 |
Breaking something off from a larger object? Only buying the broken off part? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 115 Registered: 7-2006 |
is it to do with breaking the seal on something? no Breaking something off from a larger object? no, just breaking the object itself Only buying the broken off part? no, but try and work around this one... it might lead you somewhere | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1847 Registered: 2-2011 |
so it doesn't really matter what the object is? just how it is broken? is the method of breaking it important? dropping it? broken in half? smashed to smithereens? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2006 |
so it doesn't really matter what the object is? it doesn't matter, correct just how it is broken? yes is the method of breaking it important? no the method is irrelevant. It is the extreme precision that matters dropping it? broken in half? smashed to smithereens? broken in a very specific... "percentage"... | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4364 Registered: 9-2009 |
So the size of the broken off piece in relation to the whole product is relevant? Such as: broken exactly in half? 10% broken off? Some other specific percentage broken off? Weight relevant? Or volume? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2006 |
So the size of the broken off piece in relation to the whole product is relevant? Such as: broken exactly in half? 10% broken off? Some other specific percentage broken off? this one! let's say it has to be 84,35% broken off Weight relevant? Or volume? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 4344 Registered: 9-2010 |
eighty-four thousand, three hundred fifty percent? *adds missing zero* o.O...i needz cheezburgur to clear that up... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14788 Registered: 4-2010 |
Kaylee: 84.35%. In Britain (and maybe the rest of Europe? I'm not sure) they use commas as decimal points. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 4348 Registered: 9-2010 |
oh! thank you balin kitteh. is strangeness. ok, is an odd percent...hmm. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1856 Registered: 2-2011 |
hey - lay off the Brits - we use decimal points! | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 4352 Registered: 9-2010 |
I did nawt say Brits is strangeness, shez kitteh...said commas as decimal points was! *hugglez* I <3z Brits, yuo knowz this... | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4368 Registered: 9-2009 |
Paying for the product relevant? Would the customer have to pay a different amount for a broken product? Weighing the product relevant? Will the customer bring both pieces of the broken product when he wants to buy it? Will he know it's broken? Relevant? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2006 |
the 84.35% or 84,35% is a random number: the point of this bit of the puzzle is that Martin (to fulfill their expectations) has to break one item in a very specific way Paying for the product relevant? mmm yes it is relevant to the puzzle (remember "change", few questions ago?) Would the customer have to pay a different amount for a broken product? that's tricky to answer, for we pointed out that Martin WOULD have to break an item (to fulfill their expectations), but it's not going to Weighing the product relevant? no Will the customer bring both pieces of the broken product when he wants to buy it? he's not going to break it for real, but if he were going to break it, he would only bring the 84.35% of it to the till Will he know it's broken? if he'd ever decide to break it, he would be the one to break it, so he'd know... but this is not relevant to the story Relevant? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4372 Registered: 9-2009 |
Would the breakega cause the problem? Or would Martin cause an unrelated problem? could he cause the problem even if he didn't break anything? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2006 |
Would the breakega cause the problem? the problem would be caused my Martin's behaviour, should he fulfill their expectations Or would Martin cause an unrelated problem? could he cause the problem even if he didn't break anything? to cause the problem the only thing he has to do is "to fulfill their expectations"... and it's a part of the puzzle it has been explored before. Put "they", "their expectations", "change", "84,35%", together and you are going to head straight to the solution. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1871 Registered: 2-2011 |
so it's possible that he only wants to purchase part of the product? like detaching a few bananas from a bunch? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1872 Registered: 2-2011 |
is it LIKELY that people won't want to buy the whole product and will break a piece off? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 120 Registered: 7-2006 |
so it's possible that he only wants to purchase part of the product? tricky to answer... Martin's intentions are not much relevant. We just know that in order to fulfill their expectations he'd have to behave oddly, then break an item to obtain a good precise 84.35% of it... like detaching a few bananas from a bunch? nice try, but no is it LIKELY that people won't want to buy the whole product and will break a piece off? no, people (Martin included) would go for the whole product | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1876 Registered: 2-2011 |
84.35% by weight? by length? surface area? would he have to use any special implement to break this exact amount off? a knife? scissors? an ice pick? is 15.65% a significant number? purchase tax? local tax? state tax? will the remaining 15.65% of the product be scrapped? will someone else want to buy it? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14800 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is there a better word than "break" for this? "Slice"? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1879 Registered: 2-2011 |
or detach? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2006 |
84.35% by weight? by length? surface area? mmm also tricky: just 84.35% of the item. Can't answer better than this (you will understand when this is zpoiled) would he have to use any special implement to break this exact amount off? a knife? scissors? an ice pick? all this is not relevant as we already know that he's not going to break anything... if he had to, he could use whatever he likes best, provided he does it with extreme precision is 15.65% a significant number? purchase tax? local tax? state tax? significant for the puzzle yes, all the rest no will the remaining 15.65% of the product be scrapped? it would be broken, wouldn't it? will someone else want to buy it? don't think so, it's now broken Is there a better word than "break" for this? it's all in the lateral world, but I think break it's appropriate "Slice"? or detach? stick to break | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14806 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the specific item relevant? Is the item mechanical? Edible? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1886 Registered: 2-2011 |
if he doesn't break a bit off, can he take the whole thing to the till and buy it? is there something that might encourage him to break off only that piece? is there a sign? some instructions? if he doesn't break a piece off to buy, is there a chance that some other customer might? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 122 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the specific item relevant? no Is the item mechanical? Edible? just one of the products sold at XYZ, whatever it is that they sell if he doesn't break a bit off, can he take the whole thing to the till and buy it? he doesn't break anything (the whole thing is hypotetical)... off course buying the whole product is the most likely thing to happen is there something that might encourage him to break off only that piece? interesting question... but no is there a sign? no some instructions? no if he doesn't break a piece off to buy, is there a chance that some other customer might? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 123 Registered: 7-2006 |
I repost the RECAP, in case someone missed it... plus new discovered facts There's the XYZ corporate with stores everywhere on this planet. There's an IT department of XYZ where a group of data analysts works. There's Martin, a guy like you and me; nothing to do with XYZ, he doesn't work for them. Now: to fullfill their expectations (so it is hypotetical and he is not going to do so) he would have to break one of the objects that XYZ sells (in a very precise way, so to get the 84.35% of it), not relevant which one, and to cause them (XYZ in general) a small but annoying problem. Martin has no knowledge of "their expectations". Also the word "change" plays a role in the story | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1891 Registered: 2-2011 |
would 84.35% of the product put it into a different category? say a price category? does it change the nature of the product? is there any point in trying to find out what XYZ sell? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1892 Registered: 2-2011 |
would 84.35% of the product put it into a different category? say a price category? does it change the nature of the product? is there any point in trying to find out what XYZ sell? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 124 Registered: 7-2006 |
would 84.35% of the product put it into a different category? say a price category? does it change the nature of the product? is there any point in trying to find out what XYZ sell? no to all | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4389 Registered: 9-2009 |
Can it be said that the analysts are looking for people breaking products in a specific way? Do they ignore anyone not breaking products? Or anyone not breaking products in this way? Do they expect to find anyone breaking a product in this way? If so, do they expect to find more than one? If they find one, will they stop looking? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14815 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are they expecting Martin to break the thing? To steal it? To attempt a scam? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 125 Registered: 7-2006 |
Can it be said that the analysts are looking for people breaking products in a specific way? no, but if you work this out better, you might hit the bull's eye Do they ignore anyone not breaking products? Or anyone not breaking products in this way? Do they expect to find anyone breaking a product in this way? If so, do they expect to find more than one? If they find one, will they stop looking? Are they expecting Martin to break the thing? no To steal it? no To attempt a scam? no to partially answer all of the above: remember... analysts only rely on data! | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4403 Registered: 9-2009 |
Are they looking at some statistic? A collection of data? Are they actually at the store where Martin is? Are they in the process of collecting data? Are the analysts assembling a statistic from lots of data points? Relevant exactly how the data is collected? Or who collects it? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 126 Registered: 7-2006 |
Are they looking at some statistic? YESSSSSSSSS A collection of data? YESSSSSSSS Are they actually at the store where Martin is? not relevant Are they in the process of collecting data? no, they did that already Are the analysts assembling a statistic from lots of data points? Relevant exactly how the data is collected? Or who collects it? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4408 Registered: 9-2009 |
does the statistic concern: broken items? Customers? Money? Time? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2006 |
does the statistic concern: broken items? no Customers? THIS Money? yes... also Time? customer's stats are the key of the puzzle... you are most there galfisk! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 14971 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do 84.35% of customers break the object/cause the problem? So to maintain the stat Martin would have to break 84.35% of the item? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 128 Registered: 7-2006 |
Do 84.35% of customers break the object/cause the problem? no... (wouldn't it be a bit too much all these people breaking objects in XYZ shops?) So to maintain the stat Martin would have to break 84.35% of the item? this is correct (referring the % to the item and not to the customers) | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 1961 Registered: 2-2011 |
do 84.35% of items get broken? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2006 |
do 84.35% of items get broken? no, not "items"... "item", and remember nothing is going to be broken for real... (check the thread) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 15027 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it relevant exactly what part of the item would get broken? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 130 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is it relevant exactly what part of the item would get broken? no, the part is not relevant. just one random item in the shop, provided that it is broken in that precise proportion | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4418 Registered: 9-2009 |
They expect Martin to conform to: one stat? Several stats? Does one stat concern items that go broken in the store? Is there a relevant stat concerning customers causing problems? A stat concerning the amount of change given to customers? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 131 Registered: 7-2006 |
They expect Martin to conform to: one stat? YES! Several stats? YES! two of them in particular Does one stat concern items that go broken in the store? no Is there a relevant stat concerning customers causing problems? no A stat concerning the amount of change given to customers? YES! you got half of the puzzle spld | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 15086 Registered: 4-2010 |
Oh did he want to break a dollar? To get change? Did he want to break a $100 bill? And the store did not take $100s? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4422 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does the average amount of change not round to whole: dollars? Cents? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 132 Registered: 7-2006 |
Oh did he want to break a dollar? no To get change? read below Did he want to break a $100 bill? no And the store did not take $100s? no Does the average amount of change not round to whole: dollars? Cents? yes: the average shopper at XYZ spends 9.25463 dollars... what if Martin sticks to it and pays with a 10 dollar note? Wouldn't it be annoying to give him the change? ok half puzzle gone. now: why would he have to break something to fullfil the stats? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4423 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does the other stat also concern an average? Will he change the stat by breaking the item? Or will he conform to it? Do stores have an average of, for instance, 100.8435 items broken each year? And this store has had 100 items broken until now, so he needs to break 84.35% of an item to maintain the stat? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 133 Registered: 7-2006 |
Does the other stat also concern an average? yes Will he change the stat by breaking the item? no Or will he conform to it? yes!!!! Do stores have an average of, for instance, 100.8435 items broken each year? they probably have, but this is not the stat we are looking for here And this store has had 100 items broken until now, so he needs to break 84.35% of an item to maintain the stat? you are close... investigate item purchased instead of broken and you have it | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4424 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does the stat concern broken items? Purchased items? Returned items? Other items? Items returned to the manufacturer? Items replaced by store because they are broken? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2006 |
Does the stat concern broken items? Purchased items? this! Returned items? Other items? Items returned to the manufacturer? Items replaced by store because they are broken? splr to follow soon | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 4430 Registered: 9-2009 |
Would he have to break one item in order to conform to the average of each customer buying, for instance, 10.8435 items? | ||
| Klang (Klang)
New member Username: Klang Post Number: 135 Registered: 7-2006 |
yes, you killed it! well done... hence the... SPOILER Data analysis reveals that the average customer buys 1.8435 items when shopping at XYZ spending 9.25463 dollars. Now... what if Martin sticks to the stats? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 15113 Registered: 4-2010 |
Good one -- as usual, we were all overthinking it, weren't we? |
