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Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's fascinating to think how different the world would be today if they (H/A/group) hadn't eaten so much dairy.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 4:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They: Real? Fictional? Currently alive? Dead? 20th century? 19th? 18th? 17th? 16th? 15th? 14th? 13th? 12th? 11th? 10th? 9th? 8th? 7th? 6th? 5th? 4th? 3rd? 2nd? 1st? B.C.?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 5:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They: Real? this Fictional? Currently alive? Dead?this 20th century? 19th? 18th? 17th? 16th? 15th? 14th? 13th? 12th? 11th? 10th? 9th? 8th? 7th? 6th? 5th? 4th? 3rd? 2nd? 1st? B.C.? medieval in general
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 5:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they from Europe? Asia? Africa? the Americas? Australia/Oceania? Antarctica? (they could be penguins...just kidding =) )
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 6:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they from Europe? depends on if you define Europe geographically or culturally, but this is the best choice Asia? Africa? the Americas? Australia/Oceania? Antarctica? (they could be penguins...just kidding =) ) that would be awesome
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 6:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about a specific kind of dairy? Milk? Cream? Cheeese? Sour cream? Butter? Yogurt? Ice cream?

I've gone all hungry now...
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about a specific kind of dairy? Milk? Cream? Cheeese? Sour cream? Butter? Yogurt? Ice cream? dairy in general, though some historians believe trade of fresh milk may have triggered a specific, relevant event

I've gone all hungry now... nomnomnom
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CHEEZBURGUR!!! =)

Would they be from Europe:
Geographically?
Culturally?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they living in Eastern Europe? The middle East? Western Europe? Somewhere overseas, belonging to a European empire? North Africa, by any chance?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 8:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The present would have been different because this milky business...

started a war/conflict?
made someone wealthy?
made someone poor?
triggered a catastrophe of some sort?
led to an important discovery/invention?
made some important change to nature or a part of nature?
became the basis for some important story/legend?
helped make a special connection between nations/cultures?
strengthened a culture's collective identity?
changed the importance of milk forever?
changed the importance of something else forever?
something completely different, Jondahr is on a vast variety of WTs?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Germs relevant?
Poison relevant?
Allergies relevant?
Any other kind of pathogens relevant?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Black Plague? (wild guess)
Are the Crusades relevant at all?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CHEEZBURGUR!!! =)

Would they be from Europe:
Geographically? a few would have been
Culturally? but mainly this

Were they living in Eastern Europe? The middle East? Western Europe? Somewhere overseas, belonging to a European empire? this is closest, though not exactly fitting North Africa, by any chance? but not this

The present would have been different because this milky business...

started a war/conflict? one of the relevant events was a brief conflict
made someone wealthy?
made someone poor?
triggered a catastrophe of some sort? didn't trigger it, but was unhelpful when one happened
led to an important discovery/invention?
made some important change to nature or a part of nature?
became the basis for some important story/legend?
helped make a special connection between nations/cultures?
strengthened a culture's collective identity? the relationship between foods and identity was involved
changed the importance of milk forever?
changed the importance of something else forever?
something completely different, Jondahr is on a vast variety of WTs?

Germs relevant?
Poison relevant? yope
Allergies relevant?
Any other kind of pathogens relevant? not AFAIK

The Black Plague? (wild guess)
Are the Crusades relevant at all? neither

Note that there are at least two (somewhat interconnected) ways in which dairy foods affected these peoples' fate
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Monday, October 24, 2011 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

India relevant?
Horses relevant? Camels? Yaks? (Desperation time!) Maybe goats? sheep?
Bodo (Bodo)
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Is the genetic mutation that allows some people to tolerate milk relevant?

Is this strictly dairy from cows (vs. some other beastie)?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

India relevant? nope
Horses relevant? Camels? Yaks? (Desperation time!) Maybe goats? sheep? sheep were around, no on the others

Is the genetic mutation that allows some people to tolerate milk relevant? for one of the events, yes

Is this strictly dairy from cows (vs. some other beastie)? mostly from cows, yes
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they have an intolerance to dairy products? Were they stranded on a deserted island?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgot to ask : Religion relevant?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this about Europeans developing a tolerance to drinking milk as adults by drinking lots of it? Do the events related have to do with situations where they had an advantage because they were tolerant to milk? Like a situation where dairy products were almost the only thing they could eat, and they would have starved to death otherwise? Or about the intolerants who actually DID starve to death?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they have an intolerance to dairy products? no Were they stranded on a deserted island? yope for one of the events, explore

Forgot to ask : Religion relevant? not particularly

Is this about Europeans developing a tolerance to drinking milk as adults by drinking lots of it? only to establish that "they" were lactose tolerant Do the events related have to do with situations where they had an advantage because they were tolerant to milk? Like a situation where dairy products were almost the only thing they could eat, and they would have starved to death otherwise? Or about the intolerants who actually DID starve to death? none of these
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 5:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they stuck somewhere else (other than an island), a place of limited space or exits? Did they live on an island?

Are we talking about one group of people here? Or several different groups, serving slighlty - or very - different purposes in this story?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they stuck somewhere else (other than an island), a place of limited space or exits? Did they live on an island? this

Are we talking about one group of people here? "they" are a single group Or several different groups, serving slighlty - or very - different purposes in this story? a different group is involved in one of the events
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scandinavia relevant at any point?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scandinavia relevant at any point? yes!
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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So, vikings, then?

Iceland relevant? Greenland? The British Isles?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, vikings, then? indeed!

Iceland relevant? Greenland? this The British Isles?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eric the Red? Leif Ericsson? et al.
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 5:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eric the Red? Leif Ericsson? Leif Ericsson is important for one of the events- the other one involves the Greenland Norse as a whole et al.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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So, discovery of America relevant for one of the events?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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So, discovery of America relevant for one of the events? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the Norse not colonize America? Relevant?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Did the Norse not colonize America? not permanently Relevant? yes
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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RECAP TO CLARIFY AND GET THINGS GOING:

The world would be a very different place if the Greenland Norse had eaten less dairy. There's no way to know whether it would be better or worse, only different. It would be so because of two events: one being Leif Ericsson's ill-fated attempt to colonize Newfoundland (and why it didn't last), the other event something involving the Greenland Norse as a whole, that has yet to be determined.

"Dairy" here refers to cow-based products in general, though we know there was a trade of fresh milk that caused a conflict with another relevant group of people.
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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RECAP TO CLARIFY AND GET THINGS GOING:

The world would be a very different place if the Greenland Norse had eaten less dairy. There's no way to know whether it would be better or worse, only different. It would be so because of two events: one being Leif Ericsson's ill-fated attempt to colonize Newfoundland (and why it didn't last), the other event something involving the Greenland Norse as a whole, that has yet to be determined.

"Dairy" here refers to cow-based products in general, though we know there was a trade of fresh milk that caused a conflict with another relevant group of people.
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Sunday, November 06, 2011 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry- Chrome froze there. Can a mod delete the double post? Thanks!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there no cows in Newfoundland? did they obtain milk from moose? buffalo? some kind of deer?

is the reason they failed to colonise Newfoundland connected to the dairy eating?

Also, I thought L. Ericsson landed in British Columbia? I thought someone before him arrived in Newfoundland? have I got that the wrong way round?

did the indigenous population take all the dairy? and the newcomers couldn't get enough to eat?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there no cows in Newfoundland? no, the Vikings brought them did they obtain milk from moose? buffalo? some kind of deer? so no

is the reason they failed to colonise Newfoundland connected to the dairy eating? indirectly, yes

Also, I thought L. Ericsson landed in British Columbia? I thought someone before him arrived in Newfoundland? have I got that the wrong way round? you're thinking of the Russian expeditions

did the indigenous population take all the dairy? not all of it and the newcomers couldn't get enough to eat? so not this
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 2:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the cows get seasick and die? o_o...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

cows...dairy... I'm thinking chhezburgurz
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2011 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CHEEZBURGURZ!!!!!!!!!!! Where???? *lookz arownd*
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the cows get seasick and die? o_o... lol

cows...dairy... I'm thinking chhezburgurz

CHEEZBURGURZ!!!!!!!!!!! Where???? *lookz arownd* Nomnomnom! Though the indigenous people of Newfoundland could not haz cheezburger- or fresh milk for that matter. Neither party knew why at the time...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they bring no female cows?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if they didn't, then they brought steers...or bulls...or something...but not cows. Cows are she's. =) At any rate, they brought cattle whether they were female or not, right Tardigradeparty? *looks at teh t-kitteh*
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they bring no female cows? no

if they didn't, then they brought steers...or bulls...or something...but not cows. Cows are she's. =) At any rate, they brought cattle whether they were female or not, right Tardigradeparty? *looks at teh t-kitteh* that they did

HINT: Why could the natives not haz cheezburgur?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they know how to milk the cows? How to turn that milk into other dairy products?
Did they simply choose not to milk them? Because they found them sacred or something?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

dey haz no bunz foar cheezburgur? iz two bunz short of a cheezburgur?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 7:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they know how to milk the cows? How to turn that milk into other dairy products?
Did they simply choose not to milk them? Because they found them sacred or something? FA here, so no for all- by "haz cheezburgur" I just meant consume dairy products

dey haz no bunz foar cheezburgur? iz two bunz short of a cheezburgur? maybe they were on Atkins :p
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they actually have dairy products? Did they think they were inedible? Poisonous? Did they have other uses for them?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they actually have dairy products? only through trade with the Vikings Did they think they were inedible? Poisonous? dingdingding! Did they have other uses for them?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

teh natives thot cheez an othur milkstuffz wuz poizon? o.O why??? O_o I iz confuseded kitteh! needz cheezburgur...it nawt poizon...
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

teh natives thot cheez an othur milkstuffz wuz poizon? o.O why??? good question, explore O_o I iz confuseded kitteh! needz cheezburgur...it nawt poizon... nomnomnom
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they lactose intolerant?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 5:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they lactose intolerant? Yes!

So now we've just about established event 1: the natives were lactose intolerant, tried some milk, and thought it was poisoned because they got violently ill from it. They then attacked the settlement in retaliation and drove the Vikings back to Greenland.

So what happened between then and now?
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 6:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um...did someone else prove that the milk wasn't poisonous?

The Pilgrims relevant at all?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 99
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um...did someone else prove that the milk wasn't poisonous? think later than this

The Pilgrims relevant at all? but earlier than this
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roanoke relevant? Jamestown?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 101
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Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roanoke relevant? Jamestown? before that- note we're still talking about the Vikings
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 524
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Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The vikings then went to Russia, where the natives are lactose tolerant?
Or had they already been there?
Ireland? Scotland? England?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, November 25, 2011 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the Vikings come back? bearing cheezburgurz?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez kitteh: I hope so!!! =)
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 103
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Posted on Monday, November 28, 2011 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The vikings then went to Russia, where the natives are lactose tolerant?
Or had they already been there?
Ireland? Scotland? England? none of these places

did the Vikings come back? bearing cheezburgurz? unfortunately I don't think the climate was suitable for the kind of grain farming that would be required for cheezburgur buns
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, November 28, 2011 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the Vikings come back but not to Newfoundland?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 105
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Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the Vikings come back but not to Newfoundland? no, still in Greenland at the time
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Vikings left Greenland because the climate changed to worse?
Otherwise, if they gained a foothold in Newfoundland, they would have stayed there?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Vikings left Greenland because the climate changed to worse? well, for a certain definition of "left"...
Otherwise, if they gained a foothold in Newfoundland, they would have stayed there? yes
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 924
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Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that the world would be much different now if the Vikings had settled in Newfoundland?
if there had been a growing and prosperous Viking colony in Northern America?
if the colonization of North America would have started already in the 11th century?
.. Danish language or culture would have a more prominent role in North America? (one particular aspect of it? one particular word?)
.. there would be kingdoms in North America rather than republics now?
.. the native Americans would not have been driven back to that extent, (as the Vikings were colonizers, rather than warriors)?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 118
Registered: 9-2011
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea that the world would be much different now if the Vikings had settled in Newfoundland?
if there had been a growing and prosperous Viking colony in Northern America?
if the colonization of North America would have started already in the 11th century?
.. Danish language or culture would have a more prominent role in North America? (one particular aspect of it? one particular word?)
.. there would be kingdoms in North America rather than republics now?
.. the native Americans would not have been driven back to that extent, (as the Vikings were colonizers, rather than warriors)?

all of these are possible, and yeah, that's the difference talked about in the original post

Sundowner pretty much nailed the conclusion, so now all we're missing is the second event. Googlepedia now permitted.
Docd (Docd)
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Post Number: 183
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Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Related to the Norse colonies having to abandon Greenland in the 15th century- the Little Ice
Age having made it too cold to support livestock there?

And the settlers being over-reliant on their livestock (rather than fish) for food?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Related to the Norse colonies having to abandon Greenland in the 15th century- the Little Ice
Age having made it too cold to support livestock there?

And the settlers being over-reliant on their livestock (rather than fish) for food? DINGDINGDING!

SPOILER TIME:

After doing some research for a class, I got to thinking about the ever-increasing body of evidence showing pre-Columbian European encounters with the North American continent. In particular, the Greenland Viking colony. It lasted over 400 years and repeatedly came into contact with Native Americans, then abruptly died off with little trace. If they had been able to establish a permanent presence in North America and initiate cross-Atlantic trade and diplomacy 500 years earlier than actually happened, how would the world have changed?

Then it turned out that a large part of the problem stemmed from the Vikings' over-reliance on livestock and unwillingness to use a lot of local marine resources. In particular, when the first attempt was made to settle in North America, depending on which scholars you ask, a productive trade was interrupted by the natives either getting sick from milk they bartered for and destroying the Viking settlement thinking they had been poisoned or being scared off by the sight of dairy cows and destroying the settlement thinking they were a threat. The Vikings were able to go back to Greenland and hold on for hundreds of years, but then the Little Ice Age hit and rendered most of their (already-depleted by cattle grazing) farmland unusable and their trade routes blocked by ice. Due to cultural taboos and unwillingness to adopt Native American hunting methods that kept the Inuit alive at this time, and unable to return to Europe via the Arctic island-hopping method that they had always used, they quickly succumbed to starvation and conflict over dwindling resources. The only place they could have gone at this time? North America.

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