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Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 2218
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hannah (H/A/F) goes grocery shopping once a week. There are two almost identical supermarkets in her area: They're both equally far away from her house, carry the same products, have the same opening hours...
Going through all of her receipts at the end of the year, Hannah sees that she went to the supermarket in Shelbyville twice as often as she went to the one in Springfield.
How come?


The Simpsons are not relevant, I just needed two town names.
Bonus points if you know where I borrowed the puzzle title (:
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 165
Registered: 10-2011
Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know why, but I guess you had to start it somewhere? And so it started... there?

Did Hannah work in Shelbyville? Or was it for some other reason more convienient to shop there?

Did she spend more money in Shelbyville as well?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2219
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know why, but I guess you had to start it somewhere? And so it started... there? yes indeed (:

Did Hannah work in Shelbyville? no Or was it for some other reason more convienient to shop there? no

Did she spend more money in Shelbyville as well? probably twice as much - assume she usually paid about the same every week
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two towns in the same state (or country, or province)? Is the sales tax in Shelbyville less than in Springfield?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2220
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two towns in the same state (or country, or province)? assume yes Is the sales tax in Shelbyville less than in Springfield? yes
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2221
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Second round of questions and it's already time for a big fat
BLOOOOPER:
NO, sales tax in Shelbyville is not less than in Springfield. It's the same.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's fine; there have been bloopers in puzzle statements before.

Is transportation relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2222
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is transportation relevant? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 15612
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how she gets to the stores? How she gets back?
Relevant how many groceries she buys in a single trip?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 166
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she shop more often in Shelbyville because of something about the supermarket there? Or is there another reason that hasn't really got anything to do with the supermarket itself?

Does she know someone who works at either of the supermarkets?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 2223
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how she gets to the stores? How she gets back? yes to both
Relevant how many groceries she buys in a single trip? no

Does she shop more often in Shelbyville because of something about the supermarket there? no Or is there another reason that hasn't really got anything to do with the supermarket itself? yes

Does she know someone who works at either of the supermarkets? irrel
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 167
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she get to and fro the supermarket by car? Tram? Metro? Train? Bus? Bicycle? Motorbike/scooter? By walking? On horseback?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2224
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she get to and fro the supermarket by car? Tram? Metro? Train? Bus? this, but it could be other means of public transport as well Bicycle? Motorbike/scooter? By walking? On horseback?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 170
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time tables relevant?

And, just to make a leap: Seasons relevant? Weather relevant? Days of the week relevant?

Hannah's profession relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2225
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time tables relevant? yes

And, just to make a leap: Seasons relevant? Weather relevant? Days of the week relevant? no to all

Hannah's profession relevant? no
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the bus journey cost more to go to Springfield?
Is the condition of the bus or people on the bus relevant?
The journey between her house and the bus stop which she gets on relevant?
The journey between the bus stop which she gets off and the supermarket relevant?
Do buses for Shelbyville leave at a more convenient time?
Does it take shorter to get to Shelbyville by bus?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2226
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the bus journey cost more to go to Springfield?
Is the condition of the bus or people on the bus relevant?
The journey between her house and the bus stop which she gets on relevant?
The journey between the bus stop which she gets off and the supermarket relevant?
Do buses for Shelbyville leave at a more convenient time?
Does it take shorter to get to Shelbyville by bus?
no to all
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 174
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 6:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what else Hannah spends her days doing?
Does she take different buses at different occations?
Does the bus she takes sometimes pass Shelbyville and sometimes not?
Is the length of the bus journey relevant?
Is the departing time of the bus relevant?
Is the arrival time of the bus relevant?
Does Hannah think ahead? Like, think of the bus she will have to take from the supermarket when she jumps on the bus to the supermarket?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2228
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what else Hannah spends her days doing? no
Does she take different buses at different occations? noish
Does the bus she takes sometimes pass Shelbyville and sometimes not? no
Is the length of the bus journey relevant? no
Is the departing time of the bus relevant? yes
Is the arrival time of the bus relevant? no
Does Hannah think ahead? Like, think of the bus she will have to take from the supermarket when she jumps on the bus to the supermarket? no
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 177
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The departing time from the supermarket?
Or the departing time from whereever she starts when going TO the supermarket?
Or both?

Does she sometimes miss the bus?
Or does she always go by the bus she planned to?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I took her to a supermarket
I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere, so it started there.
I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said oh you're so funny.
I said yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here.


Does the bus times fit better at one market? If so: doe the bus to get there fit better? Does the bus home fit better? Does the interval between the two buses fit better? If so, does the interval at one market: make her stress? Make her wait? buy more? Or less? Did she also spend twice as much money at the most visited supermarket? Meeting someone on the public transport relevant? Or avoiding someone?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The departing time from the supermarket? no
Or the departing time from whereever she starts when going TO the supermarket? yes
Or both? so, no

Does she sometimes miss the bus? FA
Or does she always go by the bus she planned to? important FA, good that you made it (:

I took her to a supermarket
I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere, so it started there.
I said pretend you've got no money, she just laughed and said oh you're so funny.
I said yeah? Well I can't see anyone else smiling in here. ... but she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand (one of my favourite song moments ever!)


Does the bus times fit better at one market? If so: doe the bus to get there fit better? Does the bus home fit better? Does the interval between the two buses fit better? If so, does the interval at one market: make her stress? Make her wait? buy more? Or less? no to all of these Did she also spend twice as much money at the most visited supermarket? yes Meeting someone on the public transport relevant? Or avoiding someone? no to these
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 179
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a bus driver? Is her age relevant? Is she one of those elderly women who gets driven around in private buses? Does she never actually plan to go by bus, it just turns out that way? Is it a regular, public bus?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2242
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a bus driver? no Is her age relevant? no Is she one of those elderly women who gets driven around in private buses? no Does she never actually plan to go by bus, it just turns out that way? no, but definitely OTRT Is it a regular, public bus? yes
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 2266
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she just go and wait for a bus, and whichever one comes first, that's the one she takes? and the Shelbyville bus tends to come before the Springfield one?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2244
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she just go and wait for a bus, and whichever one comes first, that's the one she takes? yes!! and the Shelbyville bus tends to come before the Springfield one? ... but no
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two buses arriving / stopping at the same station? Is one of them stopping less often? (Let's say, one arrives every ten minutes, one every hour)?

Does she go there in the evening? In the afternoon? In the morning? In the middle of the night? Relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do both buses stop at the same place? or does she have to catch one on one side of the road and the other on te other? and sometimes she can't get across the road?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two buses arriving / stopping at the same station? yes Is one of them stopping less often? no (Let's say, one arrives every ten minutes, one every hour)?

Does she go there in the evening? In the afternoon? In the morning? In the middle of the night? Relevant? irrel

do both buses stop at the same place? yes or does she have to catch one on one side of the road and the other on te other? and sometimes she can't get across the road? no, but a good idea
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2011 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she get on the bus which a friend also takes? or where she knows the driver?

or is the first bus that comes sometimes a little crowded? is the fare the same? maybe she gets on the bus where she has the right change?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2011 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she get on the bus which a friend also takes? no or where she knows the driver? no

or is the first bus that comes sometimes a little crowded? irrel is the fare the same? yes maybe she gets on the bus where she has the right change? no

Except for the departing time there's nothing relevant about the buses. Remember that she always takes the first one that comes.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2011 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she always leave to go shopping after a favourite TV or radion programme finishes, so she always arrives at the bus stop in time for one particular bus?

does she always leave hom at a particular time? after a particular event?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2011 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she always leave to go shopping after a favourite TV or radion programme finishes, so she always arrives at the bus stop in time for one particular bus? good idea but no

does she always leave hom at a particular time? no, good question after a particular event? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there more buses going one way than the other? More buses going one way during a relevant period of time? Does she always go on the same day of the week?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, November 07, 2011 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there more buses going one way than the other? no More buses going one way during a relevant period of time? yope Does she always go on the same day of the week? irrel
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Both busses come twice an hour.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 4:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the interval between buses different? Is the interval from a Springfield bus arriving to a Shelbyville bus arriving twice as long as vice versa? So anyone coming at a random time and getting on the first bus would go to Shelbyville? (Say if the Shelbyville buses came at :20 and :50, while the Springfield buses came at :30 and :00 -- two-thirds of the time you'd hit a Shelbyville bus first)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the interval between buses different? Is the interval from a Springfield bus arriving to a Shelbyville bus arriving twice as long as vice versa? So anyone coming at a random time and getting on the first bus would go to Shelbyville? (Say if the Shelbyville buses came at :20 and :50, while the Springfield buses came at :30 and :00 -- two-thirds of the time you'd hit a Shelbyville bus first) YES!!!

********SPOILER********
Hannah goes grocery shopping by bus. She goes to the bus stop at random times and just takes the bus that come first.
Buses to Springfield leave at :00 and :30, buses to Shelbyville leave at :20 and :50. Since the interval from a Springfield bus to a Shelbyville bus is twice as long, she has a 2/3 chance of hitting a Shelbyville bus.


Thanks for playing, nice work (:
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice, simple, clever -- good one!
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, November 11, 2011 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For those who care:
One day a long time ago, while waiting for a bus, I posed myself the problem of what bus schedule minimizes the average waiting time. I concluded that it is best to have the buses come by at regular intervals, so if there are n buses per hour, there should be exactly 1/n hours between buses.

You might think that the shorter wait times during short intervals would balance out the longer times during longer intervals, as long as there are a fixed number of buses per hour, but this isn't true.

To prove this to yourself, imagine that there are two buses per hour. In scenario A, they come every half hour, so the maximum wait time is just under 30 minutes, and the minimum is zero minutes, for an average of about 15 minutes.

In scenario B, they come very close together (say, at :00 and :01). In the long interval, the maximum wait time is a little under 59 minutes, and the minimum is again zero, for an average between 29 and 30 minutes. The slight chance of arriving between :00 and :01, and having to wait at most a minute, will lower the average somewhat, but certainly not enough to cut it in half!
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I might care, if I was anywhere near able to wrap my mind around that. My admiration for having the kind of mind that can think that up, though.

Anyway, good puzzle! And as a result of this, I've had Pulp buzzing in my head for two weeks. Can. Not. Get. It. Out!

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