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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2011 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is a common scrund about the police, but a statement sometimes used to correct this scrund is obviously false after a minute's reflection. How come?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that police must always tell the truth when questioned?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this true about Police in every country? If not, [LTPF List of Countries]. If only one, is that country's Constitution relevant? (I'm thinking 1st Amendment, 5th Amendment, something like that)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, more questions I just thought of... Would this hold true of private police in an anarchist/libertarian state? Is the statement used to (falsely) correct the scrund also a common scrund? Also, would it only relate to the specific situation in which the scrund could arise? (For instance, if the scrund is police telling the truth when questioned, the response "No, because otherwise nobody would do illegal business with them" only applies to that situation, and is false because some people might not ask.)

Does this apply to local police forces (like Town of Mansfield Police)? Regional (Dutchess County, NY Police)? State police? National police forces such as FBI?

PS: The reason I didn't used the same location for both was that after writing Town of Mansfield, I realized there is no Tolland County Police because there is no Tolland County government due to Connecticut law weirdness regarding local governments. Is this at all relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2011 - 12:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it that police must always tell the truth when questioned? no--I had another puzzle dealing with that!
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 6:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is this true about Police in every country?No. This puzzle definitely applies in at least parts of the US; I don't know what other countries it applies to. You don't have to be American in order to solve it, though!If not, [LTPF List of Countries]. If only one, is that country's Constitution relevant? no(I'm thinking 1st Amendment, 5th Amendment, something like that)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, November 14, 2011 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Also, more questions I just thought of... Would this hold true of private police in an anarchist/libertarian state? possibly Is the statement used to (falsely) correct the scrund also a common scrund? Also, would it only relate to the specific situation in which the scrund could arise? yes(For instance, if the scrund is police telling the truth when questioned, the response "No, because otherwise nobody would do illegal business with them" only applies to that situation, and is false because some people might not ask.)

Does this apply to local police forces (like Town of Mansfield Police)? Regional (Dutchess County, NY Police)? State police? National police forces such as FBI? I know it's true in NYC (from "Law & Order"!!~) & I suspect that it's true in most places in the US

PS: The reason I didn't used the same location for both was that after writing Town of Mansfield, I realized there is no Tolland County Police because there is no Tolland County government due to Connecticut law weirdness regarding local governments. Is this at all relevant? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The scrund involves:
-police responsibilities?
-police privileges?
-the way police treat suspects/ inmates?
-the way police interact with each other?
-the relationship between police and the general public?
-requirements for being a police officer?
-consequences for wrongdoing, if you're a police officer?
-the physical appearance of officers?
-the working conditions for officers?
-their training? education?
-donuts?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2011 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The scrund involves:
-police responsibilities? noish
-police privileges? no
-the way police treat suspects yes/ inmates?less likely
-the way police interact with each other? noish
-the relationship between police and the general public? noish
-requirements for being a police officer? no
-consequences for wrongdoing, if you're a police officer? noish
-the physical appearance of officers? no
-the working conditions for officers? noish
-their training? yopeeducation? no
-donuts? no (but what a delightful subject!)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheezburgurz! =) *is hopeful*
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2011 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the concept of jurisdiction relevant (to the puzzle)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2011 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Friday, November 18, 2011 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the concept of jurisdiction relevant (to the puzzle)? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

<<the>>
So these suspects are ones not yet arrested?
Did it have anything to do with the bending of rules or maybe arms and legs? LOL!
Beating up perps?
Anything to do with stakeouts?
Obtaining evidence?
Planting of cops in line ups?
Did not read them their rights?

And the specific type of crime committed, matters, right? Would it help to nail THAT down or the statement, itself? Like, "there's never a cop around when you need one?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2011 - 10:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
<<the>>
So these suspects are ones not yet arrested?probably but not not necessarily
Did it have anything to do with the bending of rules or maybe arms and legs? LOL! yope
Beating up perps? noish
Anything to do with stakeouts? not specfically but it could apply there
Obtaining evidence? no
Planting of cops in line ups? no
Did not read them their rights? no

And the specific type of crime committed, matters, right? some crimes are much more relevant than othersWould it help to nail THAT down yes or the statement, itself? Like, "there's never a cop around when you need one? Eventually you'll need to get the exact statement, but it would probably be best to get the basic scrund first
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the cops shake the perps down?
These crimes, did they involve:
drugs?
prostitution?
gambling?
assault?
robbery?
cops planting guns on perps?
kickbacks and/or bribes?
auto thief?
petty larceny?
grand larceny?
murder?
stalking?
DWI's
DUI's
gang bangers?
conduct unbecoming?
aiding and abetting?
resisting arrest?
hit and run?

And it doesn't involve police brutality?
Does it involve andything to do with cops being referred to as flat foots?
COPS(which stands for constable on patrol)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 6:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did the cops shake the perps down? no
These crimes, did they involve: It's about police activity in general, but crimes of violence would be most relevant
drugs?
prostitution?
gambling?
assault?
robbery?
cops planting guns on perps?
kickbacks and/or bribes?
auto thief?
petty larceny?
grand larceny?
murder?
stalking?
DWI's
DUI's
gang bangers?
conduct unbecoming?
aiding and abetting?
resisting arrest?
hit and run?

And it doesn't involve police brutality? yope
Does it involve andything to do with cops being referred to as flat foots? no
COPS(which stands for constable on patrol)? No, but thanks for this interesting information, which is new to me!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Permit me to de-scrund: http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/cop.asp
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks!!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I saw a program where they said COP stood for Constable on Patrol (this in England) and that a four letter word which I won't print here stands for - For Use of Carnal Knowledge (also in England). That's where I got the COP thing from.

Ok so not COP. Not flatfoot, anything to do with the cops hand cuffing suspects? Pepper spray? Frisking them. Does it make a difference whether the suspect is male or female?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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I saw a program where they said COP stood for Constable on Patrol (this in England) and that a four letter word which I won't print here stands for - For Use of Carnal Knowledge (also in England). That's where I got the COP thing from.

Ok so not COP. Not flatfoot, anything to do with the cops hand cuffing suspects? noPepper spray? noFrisking them. no Does it make a difference whether the suspect is male or female? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2011 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have anything to do with what the copos allows a suspect to do, or NOT do?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Does it have anything to do with what the copos allows a suspect to do, or NOT do? noish
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have anything to do with harassment?
Cops shooting people?
Lying to protect each other?
Writing tickets?
Actual physical treatment of suspects?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 6:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it have anything to do with harassment? see next answer
Cops shooting people? yes. GOOOOOOD QUESTION!!!!
Lying to protect each other? no
Writing tickets? no
Actual physical treatment of suspects? See previous question but two.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that cops are supposed to use rubber bullets?
Is it that it is thought that cops are not held accountable for shooting people?
That there is no just cause for shooting people?
Or that there is?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Is it that cops are supposed to use rubber bullets?
Is it that it is thought that cops are not held accountable for shooting people?
That there is no just cause for shooting people?
Or that there is?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Is it that cops are supposed to use rubber bullets? no
Is it that it is thought that cops are not held accountable for shooting people? no
That there is no just cause for shooting people? no
Or that there is? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it that cops are supposed to just wing people, not shoot to kill?
Does it involve witnesses?
Is it that cops will shoot first ask questions later?
Does it involve other people around at the time of shooting someone?
Does the age of the people shot at, matter?
People shooting cops?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Is it that cops are supposed to just wing people, not shoot to kill? no
Does it involve witnesses?no
Is it that cops will shoot first ask questions later? no, but this is the most ORT question on this list
Does it involve other people around at the time of shooting someone? no
Does the age of the people shot at, matter? no
People shooting cops? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

... you mean wrong track dontcha? I don't see a yes anywheres in that last group! lol

How about cops shooting folks in the back?
Involve suicide by cop thing?
Does it involve how a cop feels about shooting people?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, November 21, 2011 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek: ORT or OTRT is "on the right track," so Nimue is saying that that guess, though incorrect, is approaching the right answer.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know Balin, I was being facetious.It's just that I seem to be dancing all around this one. Need me some coffee!!! lol
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it about how often a cop will shoot a gun at someone during his/her career? How (un)likely a cop is to shoot a gun at someone at all? How likely a gunshot is to be fatal?

Police have to take some fairly extended leave from work (or at least get transferred to desk work for a while) after shooting someone to give themselves a chance to calm down after the event. Is this at all relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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... you mean wrong track dontcha? I don't see a yes anywheres in that last group! lol

How about cops shooting folks in the back? not specifically in the back
Involve suicide by cop thing? no
Does it involve how a cop feels about shooting people? no
Balin (Balin)
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Chek: ORT or OTRT is "on the right track," so Nimue is saying that that guess, though incorrect, is approaching the right answer.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 12:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I know Balin, I was being facetious.It's just that I seem to be dancing all around this one. Need me some coffee!!! lol
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - 1:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it about how often a cop will shoot a gun at someone during his/her career? yes. GOOOOOOOD QUESTION!! How (un)likely a cop is to shoot a gun at someone at all? ditto How likely a gunshot is to be fatal? no

Police have to take some fairly extended leave from work (or at least get transferred to desk work for a while) after shooting someone to give themselves a chance to calm down after the event. Is this at all relevant? noish
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you think they shot at people: more often than they did? Less often? Pulling the weapon relevant? Hitting someone relevant? Hitting someone unintended? Rules for when they can shoot?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Did you think they shot at people: more often than they did? yesLess often? noPulling the weapon relevant? see previous answers Hitting someone relevant? yes Hitting someone unintended? yes Rules for when they can shoot? yesish
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it relevant whether the perp has shot first?

that many police officers will never shoot at anyone in their career?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some cops never fired their weapon?
Or cops are trigger happy?
Is it about how seldom cops shoot innocent people? Or how often? Or innocent bystanders?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Nothing to do with how cops are killed, right?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 11:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is it relevant whether the perp has shot first? no

that many police officers will never shoot at anyone in their career? Yes--this is half of the solution. Now you need to find the obviously false way people often make this point.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2011 - 5:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Some cops never fired their weapon? see above
Or cops are trigger happy? see above
Is it about how seldom cops shoot innocent people? not specifically--see aboveOr how often? ditto Or innocent bystanders? ditto
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Post Number: 99
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Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do people say that some cops never fired a gun in their life because they spend all their time sleeping in their patrol cars when they should be out catching bad guys?
Or they are too busy writing tickets?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 1:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Do people say that some cops never fired a gun in their life because they spend all their time sleeping in their patrol cars when they should be out catching bad guys? that's not it
Or they are too busy writing tickets? ditto
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2011 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP & HINT: You've identified the scrund: Most police officers NEVER use their guns to shoot anyone in their whole careers. Now you need to find the OBVIOUSLY FALSE way many people express this truth.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 05, 2011 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it because people say the cops are too scared to shoot anyone?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they don't use their guns because they don't need to? because the opportunity never arises? because they're not allowed to? because their guns aren't loaded?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 05, 2011 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it because people say the cops are too scared to shoot anyone? no
Shez (Shez)
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they don't use their guns because they don't need to? no because the opportunity never arises? that's not itbecause they're not allowed to? ditto because their guns aren't loaded? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it because people think cops will be punished in some way or possibly fired if they shot someone? Accused of wrong doing? Or that they are afraid they might hit a bystander? Or maybe be sued by the person they shot?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Do they have to pay for the ammo themselves?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are talking American cops, right? I forget if that was asked. Not like the cops (Bobbies, I think they're called) in England who don't even have a gun?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it because people think cops will be punished in some way or possibly fired if they shot someone? no Accused of wrong doing? noOr that they are afraid they might hit a bystander? noOr maybe be sued by the person they shot? no
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Do they have to pay for the ammo themselves? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 06, 2011 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
We are talking American cops, right? yes I forget if that was asked. Not like the cops (Bobbies, I think they're called) in England who don't even have a gun? yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the expression to 'fire a shot in anger' relevant?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it because they think most cops sit behind a desk?
Is the words "shoot" in any tense, used in the assumption?
Would I also have thought this?
Is this a common misconception?
Is it because the cops had a short career?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that the cops are afraid of actually, or accidentally, killing whoever it is they have drawn their weapon against?
Nimue (Nimue)
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365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the expression to 'fire a shot in anger' relevant? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it because they think most cops sit behind a desk? no
Is the words "shoot" in any tense, used in the assumption? no
Would I also have thought this? How should I know?
Is this a common misconception? The misconception (scrund) has already been identified--it's that many people are surprised when they learn that most cops never fire their guns at anyone in their whole careers. But the idea behind the underlined statement is often expressed in a way that is OBVIOUSLY false. You now need to f8ind that way.
Is it because the cops had a short career? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 9:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
that the cops are afraid of actually, or accidentally, killing whoever it is they have drawn their weapon against? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the obviously false statement to do with the legality of shooting someone? With the consequences for the police of doing so? With whether or not the police are allowed to do ordinarily illegal things in the line of duty? Are the specific circumstances under which it would be permissible for a policeman to fire at someone relevant?

Does the statement claim that the scrund is wrong because cops physically could not shoot someone? Would not want to? Wouldn't have the opportunity?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Enjay (Enjay)
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Is the obviously false statement to do with the legality of shooting someone?no With the consequences for the police of doing so? no With whether or not the police are allowed to do ordinarily illegal things in the line of duty? noAre the specific circumstances under which it would be permissible for a policeman to fire at someone relevant? no

Does the statement claim that the scrund is wrong because cops physically could not shoot someone? noWould not want to? noWouldn't have the opportunity? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would I also have thought this? how should I know?\b
Well I guess you answered my question without knowing you did. Your answer suggests that it is NOT a common misconception else I would have commonly thought it? Right? tah dah!!! LOL!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You say: the misconception (scrund) has already been identified--it's that many people are surprised when they learn that most cops never fire their guns at anyone in their whole careers. But the idea behind the underlined statement is often expressed in a way that is OBVIOUSLY false. You now need to f8ind that way.

First, I get ALL of that! Secondly, no, the scrund is not identified, at least not in the way I understand what a scrund is, it doesn't. That, the action, which resulted in the scrund has been identified but not the scrund. Gathering from what I've read in this group, a scrund is a MISCONCEPTION? Is it not? Because if it isn't then I don't what the heck I'm looking for.
Chek
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2011 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
You say: the misconception (scrund) has already been identified--it's that many people are surprised when they learn that most cops never fire their guns at anyone in their whole careers. But the idea behind the underlined statement is often expressed in a way that is OBVIOUSLY false. You now need to f8ind that way.

First, I get ALL of that! Secondly, no, the scrund is not identified, at least not in the way I understand what a scrund is, it doesn't. That, the action, which resulted in the scrund has been identified but not the scrund. Gathering from what I've read in this group, a scrund is a MISCONCEPTION? Is it not? Because if it isn't then I don't what the heck I'm looking for.
Chek The scrund is that it is FALSE that most police officers, in their whole careers, never fire their guns at anyone. So the correction is that, in their whole careers, never fire their guns at anyone. But when people try to express this (underlined) truth, they often end up saying something that is OBVIOUSLY FALSE. What is it??
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they say something like "If more police officers fired their guns at people, (consequence) would occur"? Or "We know that most officers never fire their guns at anyone because (reason)"? Or "It would be almost impossible for an officer to fire his or her gun at someone because (reason)"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Do they say something like "If more police officers fired their guns at people, (consequence) would occur"? no Or "We know that most officers never fire their guns at anyone because (reason)"? noOr "It would be almost impossible for an officer to fire his or her gun at someone because (reason)"? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Boy you are stubborn! You just will not admit a scrund is a MISCONCEPTION!
OK, once and for all, let me see if my brain is screwed in backwards or what here because if it is, I'll stay away from these scrund thingys.
Are you asking "what it is that people say is the reason why some cops never fire their guns in their whole career AND that this is a false (misconception) - the scrund? Am I close on that?
And hey man, I'm not fighting with you, just trying to get this scrund thing down.
Peace buddy and good holidays to you and yours!
I know, I know, I'm stubborn too! LOL!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Boy you are stubborn! You just will not admit a scrund is a MISCONCEPTION! Boy, did you misunderstand me! Where did I say a scrund is not a misconception? Of course it is!
OK, once and for all, let me see if my brain is screwed in backwards or what here because if it is, I'll stay away from these scrund thingys.
Are you asking "what it is that people say is the reason why some cops never fire their guns in their whole career AND that this is a false (misconception) - the scrund? Am I close on that? As I said above, the scrund/misconception has already been identified as the belief that it is FALSE that most police officers, in their whole careers, never fire their guns at anyone. The truth is that most police officers, in their entire careers NEVER fire their guns at anyone. But many people misformulate that truth & end up saying something OBVIOUSLY FALSE.
And hey man, I'm not fighting with you, just trying to get this scrund thing down. Think of an OBVIOUSLY FALSE way to express the fact that most police officers never, in their entire careers, fire their guns at anyone.
Peace buddy and good holidays to you and yours! And do in likewise to you & yours!
I know, I know, I'm stubborn too! Stubbornness makes the world go round!!LOL!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 1:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I got it, I got it already!
So ... is it that the people say something like
he (the cop) couldn't hit the side of a barn, anyway? Or he'd probably shoot his foot off, anyway?

See, I am trying to think opposite now, right?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 1:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I got it, I got it already!
So ... is it that the people say something like
he (the cop) couldn't hit the side of a barn, anyway? no Or he'd probably shoot his foot off, anyway? no

See, I am trying to think opposite now, right? You should look for an OBVIOUSLY WRONG way of formulating the true claim that most cops never shoot anyone.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a little confused, too.
but could it be that they say "Most cops never shoot their guns" when they must have to do so, in order to qualify, and have to practice by shooting at targets?
or "Most cops never use their guns," when they may draw them (e.g. to stop a crime) but don't have to shoot?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Solitiare (Solitiare)
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I'm a little confused, too.
but could it be that they say "Most cops never shoot their guns" when they must have to do so, in order to qualify, and have to practice by shooting at targets? no
or "Most cops never use their guns," when they may draw them (e.g. to stop a crime) but don't have to shoot? no. You're all OWT, so here's a BIG HINT, The misformulation misuses a certain word that is very common in generalizations about how most people behave--even in contexts that have nothing to do with guns or the police.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, when we say 'never' or 'always' about anyone, we're usually wrong. Is it something like that?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 10:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Well, when we say 'never' or 'always' about anyone, we're usually wrong. Is it something like that? No, the crucial word has not appeared in this puzzle yet, but it's a word people often use in describing common behavior or traits.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know what I am talking about so I'll just keep talking till I hit something ... anything!
Do we need to nail down a specific word? Or a phrase? If so does it involve any of the following in its statement? Like distance: anything to do with sight? Hearing? Talking, sleeping, hiding, dying, money, whoopee, false charges, theft, criminals, harm to oneself, bystanders, uniforms, blood?
I know what I would say, I would say right off the bat, that it would be because they're too busy writing tickets. But you already said no to that!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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I don't know what I am talking about so I'll just keep talking till I hit something ... anything!
Do we need to nail down a specific word? yesOr a phrase? see previous answerIf so does it involve any of the following in its statement? Like distance: anything to do with sight? Hearing? Talking, sleeping, hiding, dying, money, whoopee, false charges, theft, criminals, harm to oneself, bystanders, uniforms, blood? As I said above, it's a word people often use in describing common behavior or traits. So it's NOT specific to crime or the police.
I know what I would say, I would say right off the bat, that it would be because they're too busy writing tickets. But you already said no to that! No, you're OWT. What you need to find is not the reason most police officers never fire their guns but a misformulation of the idea that most police officers never fire their guns.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the word related to psychology?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Is the word related to psychology?It's used in both psychological and non-psychological contexts.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the word typically? habitually? tendancy?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Is "crazy" it? Retarded? Insane?
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Anything to do with Post traumatic Stress Syndrome? or that they couldn't care less?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Peter365 (Peter365)
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is the word typically? no but you're ORT habitually? dittotendancy? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Is "crazy" it? no Retarded? noInsane? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 5:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Anything to do with Post traumatic Stress Syndrome? noor that they couldn't care less? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Usually? Mainly? Often? Does it end in -ly? Is it an adverb? Adjective? Verb?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

normally? generally? regularly? ordinarily? customarily?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Usually? no Mainly? noOften? no Does it end in -ly? noIs it an adverb? noAdjective? yes, in this contextVerb? not in this context
Shez (Shez)
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normally? generally? regularly? ordinarily? customarily? no to all
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it any of these words:
routine
negative
cynical
reactive
occupational
reflex
characteristic
professional
response
therapy or theraputic
aggressive
unintentional
subconscious
clinical
Nimue (Nimue)
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Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it any of these words: No. The previous lists from Enjay & Shez (above) were more ORT. On your list, the most ORT suggestions are 'routine' & 'characteristic.'
routine
negative
cynical
reactive
occupational
reflex
characteristic
professional
response
therapy or theraputic
aggressive
unintentional
subconscious
clinical
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

... any of these, work?
hesitant
human nature
common
programmmed
impromptu
compelling
irresistable
learned
skilled
How about they can't shoot straight anyway, or most don't know how to shoot? Oh wait, scrap that, I think you are looking for sort of clinical terminology, right?

The way I am reading you, it seems to me you ARE asking why most cops never fire their guns in their whole careers ... BUT ... that you are asking, at least what I THINK you are asking for, is a ridculously eroneous assumption/reason/explanation that is obviously falsely stated. IF I AM WRONG in thinking this... then somebody please ... come slap me already! Chek
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 10:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
... any of these, work? no
hesitant
human nature
common
programmmed
impromptu
compelling
irresistable
learned
skilled
How about they can't shoot straight anyway, or most don't know how to shoot? Oh wait, scrap that, I think you are looking for sort of clinical terminology, right? no

The way I am reading you, it seems to me you ARE asking why most cops never fire their guns in their whole careers ... BUT ... that you are asking, at least what I THINK you are asking for, is a ridculously eroneous assumption/reason/explanation that is obviously falsely stated. IF I AM WRONG in thinking this... then somebody please ... come slap me already! Chek Please believe me that the reason why MOST COPS NEVER FIRE THEIR GUNS does not figure in this puzzle at all. What you need to find is an obviously false (but common) way of trying to express the claim I have capitalized.
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait a sec ... I'm laughin' now ...
First, I got that already - that you don't want the REASON why MOST COPS NEVER FIRE THEIR GUNS etc. Please believe ME, I GOT THAT!! But and here's the tricky part, you DO want the REASON, hang in here with me now, that is OBVIOUSLY and FALSELY commonly EXPRESSED, CLAIMING THE SAME THING. Right? Can I get a yes or no on that one and I swear I won't mention the word gun or cop or firing ever ever again! chek
Docd (Docd)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the claim that the police are too experienced, well-drilled or well-practiced to shoot their gun unnecessarily? (could be considered false as shooting opportunities are too infrequent to get much experience in not shooting)
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I can nail down any of the words in your illusive statement. Any of these regrarless of the suffix, it?

underestimate
predictability
abuse of privilege
other methods used or weapons
threat
increasingly
resilience
jeopardy
appropriate
mandatory
guidelines
accountability
trend
incident
investigation
responsibility
authority
conflict
justifiable
compliance
exaggerated
reflexive
momentum
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

From the state of Utter Confusion:
Are we looking for a false interpretation to be drawn from a fact that is technically (statistically) true?
e.g.: Most officers never shoot their guns, because they are desk officers, or on a detail that does not usually require it.
..which might lead to the conclusion that most police officers *will* not draw their guns (in any situation), and *should* not?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
From the state of Utter Confusion:
Are we looking for a false interpretation to be drawn from a fact that is technically (statistically) true? No, you're looking for a false way to try to express the truth that most police officers never fire their guns, & you're looking for a particular word often used to describe common traits OF ANY SORT
e.g.: Most officers never shoot their guns, because they are desk officers, or on a detail that does not usually require it. As I said above, the reason why most police officers never fire their guns is irrel
..which might lead to the conclusion that most police officers *will* not draw their guns (in any situation), and *should* not? no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No answer to our questions, mine, Solitiars, and Docs.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What I can't figure out is how you can express a true statement in a false way, unless it is by saying something along the lines of "not unlikely," meaning "likely" Which is actually saying the truth in a true way, but might give the impressiuon that it is not, and means the oppositre.
I'm getting so confused I can't even make sense of my own question!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare, LOL ... LOL ... me too!!!
What I don't understand is that Nimue keeps saying it has nothing to do with the reason why some cops never fire their guns. That! Kills me! LOL!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Docd (Docd)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 10:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the claim that the police are too experienced, well-drilled or well-practiced to shoot their gun unnecessarily? no (could be considered false as shooting opportunities are too infrequent to get much experience in not shooting) no
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 4:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Let me see if I can nail down any of the words in your illusive statement. Any of these regrarless of the suffix, it? no

underestimate
predictability
abuse of privilege
other methods used or weapons
threat
increasingly
resilience
jeopardy
appropriate
mandatory
guidelines
accountability
trend
incident
investigation
responsibility
authority
conflict
justifiable
compliance
exaggerated
reflexive
momentum
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 4:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
From the state of Utter Confusion:
Are we looking for a false interpretation to be drawn from a fact that is technically (statistically) true?No, you're looking fort a common but false way of making a statistical claim
e.g.: Most officers never shoot their guns, because they are desk officers, or on a detail that does not usually require it.
..which might lead to the conclusion that most police officers *will* not draw their guns (in any situation), and *should* not? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 11:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
What I can't figure out is how you can express a true statement in a false way, unless it is by saying something along the lines of "not unlikely," meaning "likely" Which is actually saying the truth in a true way, but might give the impressiuon that it is not, and means the oppositre.Think of a word that is often misused in generalizations
I'm getting so confused I can't even make sense of my own question!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 1:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Solitiare, LOL ... LOL ... me too!!!
What I don't understand is that Nimue keeps saying it has nothing to do with the reason why some cops never fire their guns. Because it has nothing to do with the reason why some cops never fire their guns!! That! Kills me! LOL!
Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare, I pasted your comment on my desktop so I could get a good laugh when I need one, thanks for that! Chek
And Nimue, this better be good with all this "It has nothing to do with the reason why some cops never fire their guns" thing you keep saying.
Question; could you have used another example other than the infamous " ... cops never firing their gun" thing? Would it have been equally applicable? Just asking the easy stuff now. And btw, you did not respond to my other post, the one with all those words in it. Are you going to?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Chek101 (Chek101)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 8:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Solitiare, I pasted your comment on my desktop so I could get a good laugh when I need one, thanks for that! Chek
And Nimue, this better be good with all this "It has nothing to do with the reason why some cops never fire their guns" thing you keep saying.
Question; could you have used another example other than the infamous " ... cops never firing their gun" thing? yes Would it have been equally applicable? yes Just asking the easy stuff now. And btw, you did not respond to my other post, the one with all those words in it. Yes, I did. See above. My answer was that none of those words is relevant. Are you going to?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, one common misuse of statistics is saying "average" as in "the average cop," without specifying whether it is the average, median or mode. But, while there can be a median income, I don't see how there could be a median policeman, or a median (fill in profession).

Does self-reporting have anything to do with it?
Is predicting future behavior relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 10:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Well, one common misuse of statistics is saying "average" as in "the average cop," without specifying whether it is the average, median or mode. But, while there can be a median income, I don't see how there could be a median policeman, or a median (fill in profession) BINGO!! The word is 'average' (in the technical sense of 'mean,' the sense in which the average American adult has 2.4 children. Now, the puzzle should be easy to solve!!

Does self-reporting have anything to do with it? no
Is predicting future behavior relevant? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The average cop never fires their gun? But if even one cop ever does then the average cop will do it a fraction of a time? (ie if you add up all the shootings and divide by the number of cops)
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I do a service in this school
At which no one can frown.
I quietly enter into class
And bring the average down.


Conversly, if even one cop fires his/her gun, that will bring the average up, at least a fraction of the time?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

E.g., members of SWAT teams must fire their guns quite a lot, more than the 'average.'
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 11:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The average cop never fires their gun? But if even one cop ever does then the average cop will do it a fraction of a time? (ie if you add up all the shootings and divide by the number of cops) yes!!
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 2:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I do a service in this school
At which no one can frown.
I quietly enter into class
And bring the average down.

Conversly, if even one cop fires his/her gun, that will bring the average up, at least a fraction of the time? yes
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 2:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
E.g., members of SWAT teams must fire their guns quite a lot, more than the 'average.'

************ SPOILER ********************
At last!! Many people are surprised, as I was, to learn that most police officers never fire their guns in their whole careers. But a common way of correcting this scrund is to say that the average cop never fires his gun. Given the technical meaning of the term, 'average,' that statement can't be true if any cop ever fires his gun at all. Why was this puzzle so confusing? Please check out my new one, which won't be (I hope).
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle Nimue. As ever when I read your spoilers I say to myself 'darn should have gotten that'. Oh well I'll keep trying.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Please do!! I have 3 puzzles on the board right now!!

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