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Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 593
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ben had a dream about his two old friends. He told it to them, separately, which no doubt caused part of it to come true. He never knew that the other part had also come true.

Yes, all were HAMs.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 1158
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2011 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben learn that one of the parts came true?

Did the firstly mentioned part only affect one of his friends?
Or both?
Same questions for the part that Ben did not learn of.

Did Ben die?
Did either of his friends?
Did both of this friends?

Was it a good dream?
A bad one?

Did either of the persons involved do something to prevent the dream coming true?
And triggered some events that made the dream come true?

Did Ben not learn about the latter part coming true because the person(s) affected by it were not able to tell him?
If so, was it for physical reasons?
Or due to a distance between them?
Or due to a lack of technology?
Or were they too embarrassed to tell him?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 594
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben learn that one of the parts came true? Yes

Did the firstly mentioned part only affect one of his friends?
Or both? both
Same questions for the part that Ben did not learn of.

Did Ben die? Yes; before the 2nd part of his dream came true.
Did either of his friends?
Did both of this friends? Yes. However, they both survived Ben.

Was it a good dream? Yes
A bad one?

Did either of the persons involved do something to prevent the dream coming true?
And triggered some events that made the dream come true? After Ben told them about it, they wanted to make the dream come true.

Did Ben not learn about the latter part coming true because the person(s) affected by it were not able to tell him? Yes
If so, was it for physical reasons? Yes, mostly because he died. Not being sarcastic; there is another reason.
Or due to a distance between them?
Or due to a lack of technology?
Or were they too embarrassed to tell him?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Username: Solitiare

Post Number: 595
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Ben learn that one of the parts came true? Yes

Did the firstly mentioned part only affect one of his friends?
Or both? both
Same questions for the part that Ben did not learn of.

Did Ben die? Yes; before the 2nd part of his dream came true.
Did either of his friends?
Did both of this friends? Yes. However, they both survived Ben.

Was it a good dream? Yes
A bad one?

Did either of the persons involved do something to prevent the dream coming true?
And triggered some events that made the dream come true? After Ben told them about it, they wanted to make the dream come true.

Did Ben not learn about the latter part coming true because the person(s) affected by it were not able to tell him? Yes
If so, was it for physical reasons? Yes, mostly because he died. Not being sarcastic; there is another reason.
Or due to a distance between them?
Or due to a lack of technology?
Or were they too embarrassed to tell him?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 5134
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ben a real person? A famous person? Actually named Ben? Benjamin? Benjamin Franklin? (lol, just guessing, soli...I had cheezburgur today...no, yesterday, is 12:25 in the mornin now. Cheezburgur was a long time ago ;_; kaylee sleepz in a minute. nite. plz haz cheezburgur foar me kthnxbai.)

I had a cheeseburger for lunch but that was hours ago. I'm tired, so I'm going to bed. But have a cheeseburger anyway, if you can get one, soli, ok? Thanks =D night =)

"dream" as in a hope for the future? a daydream? or the kind of dream you have when you're asleep?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 596
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Ben a real person?Yes A famous person? Not really, but should be.Actually named Ben? Benjamin? Yes to both.Benjamin Franklin? No, but gpood guess, and very OTRT(lol, just guessing, soli...I had cheezburgur today...no, yesterday, is 12:25 in the mornin now. Cheezburgur was a long time ago ;_; kaylee sleepz in a minute. nite. plz haz cheezburgur foar me kthnxbai.)

I had a cheeseburger for lunch but that was hours ago. I'm tired, so I'm going to bed. But have a cheeseburger anyway, if you can get one, soli, ok? Thanks =D night =) Musstard or mayo?

"dream" as in a hope for the future?could be this; probably was a daydream? or the kind of dream you have when you're asleep? He said it was this
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 5135
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so was Ben American? did he die in the 18th century? 19th? 20th? 21st? was he an inventor? politician? some other job? did he sell cheezburgur? iz gud nomz. Did he have anything to do with food business? the inventor of the cheeseburger? =) hehehe. *gives mustard and mayo to soli*
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 597
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so was Ben American?Yes! did he die in the 18th century? 19th? Lived in 18th & early 19th c. 20th? 21st? was he an inventor?No. politician? mainly known for this some other job? ..but he did have another job, which is n.r. did he sell cheezburgur? AFAIK, no. iz gud nomz. Did he have anything to do with food business? no the inventor of the cheeseburger? =) don't think so hehehe. *gives mustard and mayo to soli* slathers it on chezburgur, hands back to Kaylekitteh.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 16060
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Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a president? Benjamin Harrison?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 16061
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Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Higgledy piggledy,
Benjamin Harrison,
Twenty-third president
Was, and, as such,
Served between Clevelands and
Save for this trivial
Idiosyncrasy,
Didn't do much.

-John Hollander
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Username: Solitiare

Post Number: 600
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he a president? Benjamin Harrison?No to both. Clarification: one of our Ben's friends was a Benjamin Harrison, but not the president, and not one of the two mentioned in the puzzle statement. That may help, or it may be even more confusing.

Thx for sharing the clerihew, Balin. Loved it!
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Post Number: 119
Registered: 9-2011
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the dream about:

society?
politics?
industry?
technology?
something personal?
other?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Username: Solitiare

Post Number: 602
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the dream about:

society?
politics? yessish
industry?
technology?
something personal? a definite yes!
other? no to all the rest
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 439
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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After he told the two friends about the dream, did they take an action? If so, the same action? Did he tell them about the entire dream?

Would they have noticed that they were fulfilling his dream? If so, did this awareness lead to the second part being fulfilled (for example, if they followed the dream intentionally)? Was his death related to their fulfilling the dream? Or did the death allow the second half to be fulfilled?

Did they run for office at any point? Get elected? Get married? Have kids?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Username: Solitiare

Post Number: 604
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After he told the two friends about the dream, did they take an action? If so, the same action? Yes to both, so far as it pertains to the first half of the dream.Did he tell them about the entire dream? yes

Would they have noticed that they were fulfilling his dream?Yes If so, did this awareness lead to the second part being fulfilled NO(for example, if they followed the dream intentionally)? They followed the first half intentionally.Was his death related to their fulfilling the dream? No Or did the death allow the second half to be fulfilled? If you mean Ben's death, no.

Did they run for office at any point? Ben's friends? YES Get elected? YESGet married? Have kids? Yes to both, but n.r.
Andy_hornby (Andy_hornby)
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Post Number: 279
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is equal rights relevant to the puzzle?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 444
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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess I should have asked this before...was their both getting elected the first half of Ben's dream? Did they run together for different positions? For the same position at different times? For two different positions?

Was the second half of the dream that both would die? That one would die? That one would kill the other?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 606
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is equal rights relevant to the puzzle? No

I guess I should have asked this before...was their both getting elected the first half of Ben's dream? No Did they run together for different positions? For the same position at different times? For two different positions? They did run for the same office. But that was not in the dream; it had already happened.

Was the second half of the dream that both would die?Yessish, though there was more to it than that. That one would die? No That one would kill the other? Oh, no, no, no!
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 621
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Posted on Monday, December 19, 2011 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can I interest anybody in a

RECAP
Ben had a dream about two male friends of his. They were in politics - so was Ben, but it was not his main occupation. They - the friends - both ran for the same office. The dream did not concern that office.

After he told them his dream, they took action to make the first part of the dream come true. The other part, concerning their deaths, was beyond their control.

I think everyone on the forum has heard of at least one of Ben's two friends, though not of Ben. He was not Benjamin Franklin, but all were at least partly contemporary with BF.
Andy_hornby (Andy_hornby)
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Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there an assassination? plane crash? did they (the friends) die at the same time? from the same incident?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 623
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Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there an assassination?No plane crash? No; see answer on Dec. 11. did they (the friends) die at the same time?approximately from the same incident? No
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 630
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Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This puzzle seems pretty much moribund, but here's one more
RECAP
All persons in this puzzle were politicians. All lived in the period of approximately 1750-1830. None were Benjamin Franklin, but they knew him.

Two of them had become estranged, and the first part of our Ben's dream was that they would reconcile.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 2557
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he dream that they would die together? that they would die after him?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 633
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Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he dream that they would die together? Yes, that was the 2nd part of the dream.that they would die after him? Since he did not dream when he would die, this is n.r., but in fact they did.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 637
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is mostly solved, so here is the

*******SPOILER**********
Dr. Benjamin Rush was a friend of both John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, and was unhappy that his two old friends had quarreld. He went to each and *said* he had dreamed they had reconciled, and would remain friends for the rest of their lives, dying at 'nearly the same time.' He probably did not dream how nearly the same time that would be - on the same day, in fact.
I had known about that, but not about Rush's influence. This is from a book by Denise Kiernan, Signing Their Lives Away.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In fact, John Adams' last recorded (and ironic) words were "Jefferson lives!" (He had in fact died a few hours before.)

They both died on July 4, 1826...the 50th birthday of the USA. How's that for irony???
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 5173
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, totally unrelated, but TVTropes.org's page on Thomas Jefferson asserts that he was the inventor of macaroni and cheese. True? Dunno. But they seem to think it is. If so, that's AWESOME. =D *loves cheese*
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 2577
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and did you invent macaroni and cheezburgur?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 5174
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noes, I think you did, it was your idea =D I shall haz to triez it!!!
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 640
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Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Don't know if TJ invented mac & cheese, but he might well have popularized it. I'm reading "How Carrots Won the Trojan War," by Rebecca Rupp. Jefferson, an avid gardener and agronomist, turns up every few pages, tho of course he was not at the Trojan War.
The author says that meat, not veggies, is the most nearly perfect food. So order up another round of cheezburgurs.
However, an entirely carnivore diet isn't good for you either, so get it with lettuce, tomato & onion!

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