| Author | Message | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8635 Registered: 8-2001 |
Last Wednesday, I gave a final exam in one of my classes. Arriving at the exam room about 10 minutes early, I found that several students were already there. So I asked them a question, which struck me as reasonable but which I should have realized was REALLY STUPID. What was it?? | ||
| Solo1 (Solo1)
New member Username: Solo1 Post Number: 373 Registered: 5-2012 |
Beyond the usual greetings? remarks about the weather? Did you ask them "Are you prepared for the exam?" | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8637 Registered: 8-2001 |
Solo1 (Solo1) New member Username: Solo1 Post Number: 373 Registered: 5-2012 Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Beyond the usual greetings? yes remarks about the weather? yes Did you ask them "Are you prepared for the exam?" No--I'm not THAT stupid!! This was a more subtle form of stupidity. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 18058 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did you ask why they had arrived so early? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8638 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 18058 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 5:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you ask why they had arrived so early? no | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3092 Registered: 12-2010 |
Was the question related to the students? the class? the exam? the exam room? you? none of these? | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1960 Registered: 4-2007 |
Was it stupid because you should have known the answer without asking? Because the students didn't know the answer? For a reason related to the exam? Did it give the students an unfair advantage? Reveal something about the exam? Does your answer to Solo's first question mean that the question went beyond remarks about the weather? Or that it was remarks about the weather? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8639 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3092 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was the question related to the students? yes the class? yes the exam? yesthe exam room? no you? yope none of these? no Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1960 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 10:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was it stupid because you should have known the answer without asking? yesBecause the students didn't know the answer? noFor a reason related to the exam? yes Did it give the students an unfair advantage? no Reveal something about the exam? no Does your answer to Solo's first question mean that the question went beyond remarks about the weather? Remarks about the weather were not involved at all.Or that it was remarks about the weather? See previous answer. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1969 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did you ask the question to make small talk? Because you wanted to know the answer? To put the students at ease? Because they were early? Is it relevant that the students were alone in the room without you for at least some amount of time? Is it relevant that they were early? Or might you have asked the question to the whole class after they had all arrived? Did the question touch upon the subject of the exam? The format of the exam? The student's preparation for the exam/ Their expectations for the exam? Feelings about it? Cheating? What they had been doing prior to your arrival? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8643 Registered: 8-2001 |
Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you ask the question to make small talk? no Because you wanted to know the answer? yes To put the students at ease?no Because they were early? yes Is it relevant that the students were alone in the room without you for at least some amount of time? no Is it relevant that they were early? yesOr might you have asked the question to the whole class after they had all arrived? Only if they ALL arrived early Did the question touch upon the subject of the exam? no The format of the exam? no The student's preparation for the exam/ no Their expectations for the exam? no Feelings about it? noCheating? no What they had been doing prior to your arrival? no | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3101 Registered: 12-2010 |
Did the students think the question was stupid? Did they tell you so? Did they answer the question at all? Was the answer the same for everyone? Was it a yes/no question? Nimue, check the chatroom for a photo of my super delicious vanilla/cherry/almond Christmas cake! | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8645 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3101 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did the students think the question was stupid? yes Did they tell you so? not in so many words, but it was obvious that they thought so Did they answer the question at all? yes Was the answer the same for everyone? yes Was it a yes/no question? yes Nimue, check the chatroom for a photo of my super delicious vanilla/cherry/almond Christmas cake! I EAGERLY did!! Imagine my disappointment when I got the response "FORBIDDEN" instead of a picture!!!!! | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3104 Registered: 12-2010 |
I posted another link to the cake - I hope it works now! Was the answer to the question "yes"? "no"? Did you asked them if they had done something? Were doing something? Were going to do something? Could you have deduced the answer from something in the classroom? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8647 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3104 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2012 - 10:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) I posted another link to the cake - I hope it works now! It sure did!! WOW!! Thanks!! Was the answer to the question "yes"? no "no"? yes Did you asked them if they had done something? no Were doing something? no Were going to do something? no Could you have deduced the answer yes from something in the classroom? no | ||
| Vene (Vene)
New member Username: Vene Post Number: 133 Registered: 9-2008 |
Is it related to the room where the exam was scheduled? The time at which it was scheduled? Did anything change? Can the question be asked about the students who weren't there yet? If so, would the answer be the same for all of them? And would it be 'yes' this time? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8649 Registered: 8-2001 |
Vene (Vene) New member Username: Vene Post Number: 133 Registered: 9-2008 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 4:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is it related to the room where the exam was scheduled? no The time at which it was scheduled? yesish Did anything change? no Can the question be asked about the students who weren't there yet? no If so, would the answer be the same for all of them? n/a And would it be 'yes' this time? n/a HINT: There is a special characteristic of this exam that led me to ask this question at all. Find out what it is. | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3107 Registered: 12-2010 |
Did the exam take place at the same time the class usually took place? In the same room? Was it scheduled early in the morning? Late in the evening? Were the students allowed to / did they have to bring special supplies? Was it an open note exam? Was it a multiple choice exam? true/false? fill in the blank? essay? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8653 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3107 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 8:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did the exam take place at the same time the class usually took place? irrel In the same room? irrel Was it scheduled early in the morning? irrel Late in the evening? irrel Were the students allowed to / did they have to bring special supplies? no but irrelWas it an open note exam? no & this may be a bit relevant but is DEFINITELY NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERISTIC!! Was it a multiple choice exam? true/false? fill in the blank? essay? all are irrel | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3110 Registered: 12-2010 |
Is the special characteristic of this exam related to when it took place? where? to its form? its content? to how it'll be graded? to who takes it? to who many people take it? Were special materials used (other than the usual pen and paper)? Was it a written exam? oral? Is the subject relevant? | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3111 Registered: 12-2010 |
"who many people" should of course be "how many people". | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8656 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3110 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 9:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the special characteristic of this exam related to when it took place? yesish where? no to its form? no its content? no to how it'll be graded? no to who takes it? no to how many people take it? noWere special materials used (other than the usual pen and paper)? no but irrel Was it a written exam? yes oral? no Is the subject relevant? no | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3112 Registered: 12-2010 |
Is the time of day relevant? the day of the week? Could you have asked the same question if you had given the exam a day earlier? a day later? Would it still have been stupid? Is it relevant how long the exam was? Did it start at an "unusual" time (e.g. 10:23 instead of 10:30)? Was the exam originally scheduled for a different time? and the time was changed? | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1973 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did the exam come at the end of a module? Had the students taking it finished studying the subject it was in? Would the grade for this exam represent their final grade in your class? Is it relevant that it is a university exam? Is there some reason why it would be unexpected that the students were early? Could you have deduced something from the fact that they were early? Eg that they didn't study a particular other subject, because that subject's exam was directly before yours? Should you have known the answer based on prior knowledge (ie something you knew before even walking into the room)? Based on something about the exam? Based on something about the students? Based on the fact they were early? Did the early students have anything in common other than all being early? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8657 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1973 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 10:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did the exam come at the end of a module? irrel, but it was the final exam for the whole course Had the students taking it finished studying the subject it was in? yes Would the grade for this exam represent their final grade in your class? irrel, but the exam was just 20&% of the grade, with 80% based on papers they wroteIs it relevant that it is a university exam? no Is there some reason why it would be unexpected that the students were early? noCould you have deduced something from the fact that they were early? no Eg that they didn't study a particular other subject, because that subject's exam was directly before yours? no Should you have known the answer based on prior knowledge (ie something you knew before even walking into the room)? yesBased on something about the exam? no Based on something about the students? yes, but HINT, it would be true of virtually all studentsBased on the fact they were early? yope Did the early students have anything in common other than all being early? nothing that wouldn't be true of the other students, too | ||
| Doriana (Doriana)
New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3113 Registered: 12-2010 |
Nimue, you missed my questions. | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8660 Registered: 8-2001 |
Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3112 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the time of day relevant? no the day of the week? no Could you have asked the same question if you had given the exam a day earlier? yes a day later? yes Would it still have been stupid? yes Is it relevant how long the exam was? yes.GOOOOOOD QUESTION!!! Did it start at an "unusual" time (e.g. 10:23 instead of 10:30)? no Was the exam originally scheduled for a different time? no and the time was changed? no Doriana (Doriana) New member Username: Doriana Post Number: 3113 Registered: 12-2010 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 11:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Nimue, you missed my questions. Rectified, with my apologies | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1975 Registered: 4-2007 |
Was the exam unusually long? Unusually short? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3649 Registered: 2-2011 |
did you ask them whether they needed to use the bathroom? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8663 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1975 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 11:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was the exam unusually long? no or maybe noish Unusually short? no Shez (Shez) New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3649 Registered: 2-2011 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 7:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) did you ask them whether they needed to use the bathroom? I would NEVER ask students such a personal question!!!! | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1984 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is there anything unusual about the timing of the exam? Eg students get a break halfway through? Is it relevant whether students are allowed to leave the exam room before the end of the exam? Would the students still be in the exam while a relevant thing happens? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8666 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1984 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is there anything unusual about the timing of the exam? yesEg students get a break halfway through? Is it relevant whether students are allowed to leave the exam room before the end of the exam? Falsish assumption Would the students still be in the exam while a relevant thing happens?It's not an event | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1986 Registered: 4-2007 |
Does the exam have a specific length? Can students take as long as they want to finish it? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8668 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1986 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 9:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does the exam have a specific length? no Can students take as long as they want to finish it? yes | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1988 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is the fact that it can last as long as the students want the special characteristic of the exam? Do students have to stay in the hall while they are taking the exam? Did you ask them if they had done something? Were going to do something? Wanted to do something? Whether they knew something? Whether they believed something to be the case? Was the question stupid because of the fact that the exam had no time limit? Because of the fact that the students can't predict exactly when they'll be finished? Would it have been a reasonable thing to ask before a fixed-length exam? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8671 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1988 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the fact that it can last as long as the students want the special characteristic of the exam? yes Do students have to stay in the hall while they are taking the exam? yes Did you ask them if they had done something? no Were going to do something? no Wanted to do something? yes Whether they knew something? noWhether they believed something to be the case? no Was the question stupid because of the fact that the exam had no time limit? noBecause of the fact that the students can't predict exactly when they'll be finished? noWould it have been a reasonable thing to ask before a fixed-length exam? yes -- so figure out why it's relevant that students could take as much time as they wanted!! | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8672 Registered: 8-2001 |
BLOOOOOOOPERRRRRALERTTTTTT!!!Would it have been a reasonable thing to ask before a fixed-length exam? yes The answer should be no -- so figure out why it's relevant that students could take as much time as they wanted!! | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1990 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did you ask if they wanted to do something connected with the exam? Something after the exam? Did you think they might want to do whatever it was because of the fact they had showed up early? Did you ask if they wanted to start the exam early, since they could take as long as they wanted anyway? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8675 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1990 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 10:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did you ask if they wanted to do something connected with the exam? yes Something after the exam? noDid you think they might want to do whatever it was because of the fact they had showed up early? yes Did you ask if they wanted to start the exam early, since they could take as long as they wanted anyway? Yes, now figure out why that was a stupid question, whose answer I should have already known. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1992 Registered: 4-2007 |
Because they wanted as much time as possible to prepare for the exam? To do last minute revision? They didn't want to be disturbed in their work by the rest of the class coming in? They didn't want to finish long before their friends? Did having the exam serve as an excuse to skip later classes or something else they didn't want to do, so they wanted it to go on as late as possible? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 8676 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1992 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 11:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Because they wanted as much time as possible to prepare for the exam? Yes!! They made that very clear to me!!To do last minute revision? see previous answerThey didn't want to be disturbed in their work by the rest of the class coming in? noThey didn't want to finish long before their friends? no Did having the exam serve as an excuse to skip later classes or something else they didn't want to do, so they wanted it to go on as late as possible? no ****** SPOILER *********** When I came about 10 minutes early to the room where I would be giving a final exam, I found several students already there. Since I always give students as much time as they want for exams, they would get no unfair advantage from starting early. so I asked them if they wanted to. They made it very clear that -- of course -- they would rather use the 10 minutes for last-minute cramming. How stupid of me not to realize that!! Please check out my new puzzle!! |
